If the world goes completely vegan

Ten of Swords

Since the last mod warning there have been 2 clusters of off topic posts, both of which were derailing the thread

The next off topic post will earn the person who posted it a card and ban from this thread

Gary kk

This is not good enough those post above are clearly there to cause a reaction. Please do ban me to I can highlight.

Ten of Swords

Discuss them in the context of the thread. It has been suggested that if the world went vegan then XYZ would not happen - that's what's been posted.

Refute it if you wish. The deleted posts were discussing mod actions and the forum charter, both off topic.

Now, I'm really done with this. If you can't stick to the topic of the thread don't post in it.

auspicious

Gary kk wrote: »

This is not good enough those post above are clearly there to cause a reaction. Please do ban me to I can highlight.

The world doesn't revolve around you.
There are plenty of people shocked and amazed when they see footage of standard practices in countries. Even in the Western World.
There's probably people in Mexico that don't know the conditions under which some pigs are slaughtered there.
I spoke about farmed animals in line with the OP.

The only reaction I seek is for people to go "Yeah. You know what I'm done with being part of that.".

Gary kk

auspicious wrote: »

The world doesn't revolve around you.
There are plenty of people shocked and amazed when they see footage of standard practices in countries. Even in the Western World.
There's probably people in Mexico that don't know the conditions under which some pigs are slaughtered there.
I spoke about farmed animals in line with the OP.

No don't auspicious, you know exactly what you were doing with the above post so does just about everyone else here. That's the only reason I am still here.

_Brian

How Would the world change to Be vegan ??

It wouldn’t happen by choice, so what mechanism would cause it ??

Unearthly

_Brian wrote: »

How Would the world change to Be vegan ??

It wouldn’t happen by choice, so what mechanism would cause it ??

You're right, it won't happen and hypothetical of a situation that won't happen

We might as well ask ourselves what would happen if the world went blind. Sci fi tv show stuff

Thelonious Monk

_Brian wrote: »

How Would the world change to Be vegan ??

It wouldn’t happen by choice, so what mechanism would cause it ??

It's a completely hypothetical argument obviously, posed by a non vegan in the first place. I didn't think it was fair of you to call people emotionally weak for being against the slaughter of animals for food, in a vegan forum, by the way.

_Brian

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

It's a completely hypothetical argument obviously, posed by a non vegan in the first place. I didn't think it was fair of you to call people emotionally weak for being against the slaughter of animals for food, in a vegan forum, by the way.

I think that’s a practical description of the situation in comparison to the rest of society whom we are supposing about what wkikdnhallen if they went vegan.

auspicious

Gary kk wrote: »

No don't auspicious, you know exactly what you were doing with the above post so does just about everyone else here. That's the only reason I am still here.

I highlighted instances of really bad stuff that happens to farmed animals. Stuff that would stop happening in a VW. You like anyone else in a right mind should agree that it just is not right. Unless of course you yourself sent animals to places like Libya for money.

Gary kk

auspicious wrote: »

I highlighted instances of really bad stuff that happens to farmed animals. Stuff that would stop happening in a VW. You like anyone else in a right mind should agree that it just is not right. Unless of course you yourself sent animals to places like Libya for money.

Personal now auspicious.

Jjameson

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Could we produce all the beef and dairy we currently do in Ireland using regenerative farming practices and no imported feed?

No we could not. The same with all crop production not just beef and dairy. And that would do the farmer, bio diversity and the soil no harm at all.
The processors, chemical fertilisers industry and government tax take wouldn’t be happy though.

Jjameson

auspicious wrote: »

I highlighted instances of really bad stuff that happens to farmed animals. Stuff that would stop happening in a VW. You like anyone else in a right mind should agree that it just is not right. Unless of course you yourself sent animals to places like Libya for money.

Plenty of farmers not sending cattle there. Myself included and I think cattle reared in first world standards should not be sent for slaughter in a place like it.

Thelonious Monk

Jjameson wrote: »

No we could not. The same with all crop production not just beef and dairy. And that would do the farmer, bio diversity and the soil no harm at all.
The processors, chemical fertilisers industry and government tax take wouldn’t be happy though.

Well the output of dairy is increasing yearly, so I don't see how this regenerative farming is going to get a look in, all politicians and most people care about is money and growth, which unfortunately means things like water quality and biodiversity are only going to get worse, because of this kind of farming.
Yay.

auspicious

Gary kk wrote: »

Personal now auspicious.

Ha you just accused me of doing something I was not doing. I've been posting same stuff on here for years. I don't want to be arguing with farmers all day long.
Why don't you go on Twitter or Facebook. There's stuff there that truly vilify farmers.
I vilify the practices animals are subjected to.

One farmer was getting his knickers in a twist over our use of cruelty. Let me try to clarify our thinking behind it's use.
A dog, given the best possible treatment and life but made to breed for the owners financial reward, is being used in a cruel way. The owner is imposing their superiority on the dog which can't do anything about it.

Gary kk

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Well the output of dairy is increasing yearly, so I don't see how this regenerative farming is going to get a look in, all politicians and most people care about is money and growth, which unfortunately means things like water quality and biodiversity are only going to get worse, because of this kind of farming.
Yay.

Yeah but it's mostly new entrants that are drive increase. So its swapping one for the other. In fairness to the larger farmers they are probably doing better on water quality the have money to put into storage tanks.

auspicious

Jjameson wrote: »

Plenty of farmers not sending cattle there. Myself included and I think cattle reared in first world standards should not be sent for slaughter in a place like it.

Well it's not good enough for one person to say it. Many many need to know more about it and speak against it.

Vegans get labelled preachy or extremists because non vegans don't know about the horrendous stuff we took time to look into and think about, and think more people should know. Ignorance is bliss after all.

Thelonious Monk

Gary kk wrote: »

Yeah but it's mostly new entrants that are drive increase. So its swapping one for the other. In fairness to the larger farmers they are probably doing better on water quality the have money to put into storage tanks.

The current model just seems completely unsustainable to me, and I can't see it changing unless we reduced our output considerably, which will never happen because profit is all that matters to those with all the power. We've lost so much biodiversity in the last 50 years, what will it be like in another 50 years?

Gary kk

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

The current model just seems completely unsustainable to me, and I can't see it changing unless we reduced our output considerably, which will never happen because profit is all that matters to those with all the power. We've lost so much biodiversity in the last 50 years, what will it be like in another 50 years?

Well Thelonious I honestly would not be able to tell you. I know there a projects going on throughout the country. It may/ will take time for progress to seen. But it's a start in the right direction.

_Brian

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

The current model just seems completely unsustainable to me, and I can't see it changing unless we reduced our output considerably, which will never happen because profit is all that matters to those with all the power. We've lost so much biodiversity in the last 50 years, what will it be like in another 50 years?

There's a growing regenerative agriculture movment happening, its not being supported by the government or from europe (yet), but in terms of environment and biodiversity it is a much better system of farming.. Its as important to vegans as it is to omnivores.




Personally I think the notion of the whole world going vegan or the whole world being omnivores is silly. Humans are a diverse species where the majority will be mainstream and there will always be fringe groups doing other stuff, no way everyone is going the same way and I think it would be bad for the planet anyway, the planet thrives on diversity and that must include diversity of diet and farming.. Churning over mass monocultures of soy and other protien products to support 8bln people would in itself destroy climate and biodiversity because more and more fertilisers and pesticides would be used, resulting in more and more insects and mamals being poisoned to increase yields and protect crops - sort of thwarting the whole push to be vegan one would imagine.. but maybe killing animals in that fashion is more palatable than farming and killing them, who knows..



I'd still love someone to explain how this world of vegans might happen because the diversity of humans just won't agree to it.. taking that on board how would it happen, hypothetically that is..

Jjameson

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

The current model just seems completely unsustainable to me, and I can't see it changing unless we reduced our output considerably, which will never happen because profit is all that matters to those with all the power. We've lost so much biodiversity in the last 50 years, what will it be like in another 50 years?

You are correct in my view.
The government policy on farming is underlined by value to the exchequer.
No joined up thinking on sustainable production systems that I’ve seen.

Thelonious Monk

_Brian wrote: »

I'd still love someone to explain how this world of vegans might happen because the diversity of humans just won't agree to it.. taking that on board how would it happen, hypothetically that is..

It will never happen, unless advanced societies go off it completely if and when replacement products taste the same and have a lesser carbon footprint.
I don't think any vegan thinks we'll ever have a world where people don't kill animals, but this thread was started by a non vegan.

White Clover

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

It will never happen, unless advanced societies go off it completely if and when replacement products taste the same and have a lesser carbon footprint.
I don't think any vegan thinks we'll ever have a world where people don't kill animals, but this thread was started by a non vegan.

Where is that post of yours from an hour ago

Ten of Swords

The post was subject to a mod action. Drop this and move on please

Thelonious Monk

White Clover wrote: »

Where is that post of yours from an hour ago

Blabbing, ok. I did say earlier that people are horrified by puppy farms, when puppy farms look like holiday resorts compared to what factory farmed pigs are subjected to.
Where did I say all farmers treat their animals horribly?

richie123

Unearthly wrote: »

That's because they are completely unrelated. With this thinking you wouldn't be able to discuss anything until poverty, war, racism etc is fixed

I would disagree because you have to prioritize
What you want to achieve.
And as harsh and all as it sounds I put children before animals.
I mean it's not right to be upset about farming practice s while children die from poverty and starvation..people have to come first.solve that first (hypothetically obviously since it'll never happen )then move on to animal practices or malpractice as you see it.

Say my name

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Could we produce all the beef and dairy we currently do in Ireland using regenerative farming practices and no imported feed?

We actually don't import that much feed into the country for beef and dairy.

I'd say we could do it. It just means showing farmers how to get the optimum energy and nutrients from forage.
And it can be done regeneratively and improve the soil. It just means getting a better understanding of biology and elements in the soil and how that's taken up by the plant.

One part of regenerative farming I'm doing is adding biochar to manure and slurry and that makes the manure and slurry go a lot further and grow more biomass than without. It retains the soluble nutrients from the animal manure that otherwise would leach from the soil away from the plant root.
The added benefit is that it's sequestered carbon for hundreds of years and provides living space for bacteria and fungi in the soil and these sequester their own carbon around the biochar.

The more biochar is mixed with animal manure the more soil is fertilized for a longer duration and it displaces importing fertilizer into the country.

Actually that's a discussion we all should be having, whatever type of farming occurs in this country, tillage and livestock.

We should use more of what we already have here.

65535

"If the world goes completely vegan" - well a bit before that any products that are containing animals or animal products will all show a label stating that fact.

Everything else will be taken as vegan.

Thelonious Monk

Say my name wrote: »

We actually don't import that much feed into the country for beef and dairy.

I'd say we could do it...

Thanks for your response. I suppose the way I look at Ireland now and farming is that pretty much the whole island is used for farming and I'd like to see a lot of land given back to nature and just let do its own thing. Obviously that would mean less beef and dairy being produced, and that doesn't fly with a lot of people. Your way of farming sounds great, but I still don't think the whole island should consist of beef and dairy fams, and all of our higher grounds seem to be either grazing land for sheep which stops anything from growing, or sitka spruce plantations. It really doesn't seem like a healthy ecosystem to me currently, and the reports tell us it isn't.

EastTyrone

What do vegans think of the fact that drinking soya milk is destroying the rainforest?
And the fact that a large majority of vegetables eaten in the eu come from spain with its miles upon miles of plastic greenhouses destroying the local environment, taking up ground water and depleting natural groundwater sources?

This honestly intrigues me so much as I always hear of people saying vegans to save the environment however this is never mentioned.

Likewise would vegans ever eat insects or how does this compare to a vegans ideals?