What would you have done?

Antares35 · 30-11-2020 3:13pm

Silentcorner wrote: »

What a sad existence you must live.

I needed a hand not so long ago with my jeep...I couldn't push it on my own...within a minute 4 men who were strangers to me saw I needed help and got stuck in...one lad drove me to the nearest garage to get help which was closed, another guy rang his mechanic friend who turned up within the hour and got me back on the road.

She's entitled to her fear without having her entire existence insulted for god sake. Fear is a very subjective thing and what is frightening for one might not be for another. You don't know what other people have been through in the past either. Perhaps assault or abuse.

A sledgehammer view of whether fear is or isn't justified is not appropriate. We all make decisions with regard to our own welfare, and this shouldn't invite the criticism of others.

Silentcorner · 30-11-2020 3:17pm

Antares35 wrote: »

She's entitled to her fear without having her entire existence insulted for god sake. Fear is a very subjective thing and what is frightening for one might not be for another. You don't know what other people have been through in the past either. Perhaps assault or abuse.

A sledgehammer view of whether fear is or isn't justified is not appropriate. We all make decisions with regard to our own welfare, and this shouldn't invite the criticism of others.

Consider me suitably chastised, the poster explained why she would be in fear of strange men, which was understandable.

Antares35 · 30-11-2020 3:21pm

mr_fegelien wrote: »

I think there's a bit of anti-stranger hysteria to be honest.

You're more likely as a man or a woman to be a victim of crime by a friend/family member/coworker than a stranger. Most women are raped/assaulted by someone they know.

And the days of serial killers (1970s) are gone. The world in 2020 (despite this year) has been going on an upward trend of being safer in nearly every way.

Besides, this is Ireland. When is the last time you heard of a woman getting kidnapped.

That's true. I am one of those statistics who was assaulted by someone known to me. And I probably do worry more about my daughter in the future being around other people who would be known to us such as childcare workers, older boys while she is still a child, swim instructors etc. I'll be teaching her that not everyone is to be trusted just because they are known, long before she learns about stranger danger. Of course I will try to retain a rational head and not let my helicopter parenting affect her, but it definitely leaves a mark. In much the same way that someone attacked by a stranger would presumably have the same kind of fears but in different situations.

I wouldn't have a fear of being approached by a man if I was in need of help (and will admit I can't change a tyre!)

Antares35 · 30-11-2020 3:21pm

Silentcorner wrote: »

Consider me suitably chastised, the poster explained why she would be in fear of strange men, which was understandable.

Sorry, I replied before reading the other posts didn't mean to chastise you

On the Beach · 30-11-2020 3:40pm

Are ya alright Sharon?...

CageWager · 30-11-2020 3:47pm

I’ve had two somewhat similar situations over the last few years. I was walking home from a supermarket when I saw a kid of about 3 or 4 just standing on their own at the pedestrian entrance near the main road and it was obvious that he was lost. Its a sad indictment on our society that my first thought was to stop a women on the road and ask her to wait with me and the kid while I called the shopping centre security and luckily a very nice lady stopped to help - she knew straight away why I wanted her to wait with me.

The second time I was with my niece in the park and I was pushing her on the swings. Another girl the same age (maybe 4 at the time) came along a clambered up on the other swing and looked at me to push her as well. I couldnt see who and where her parent was. I didn’t give her a push and that’s so fcuking depressing it just makes me sad. But in today’s world it is the right call IMO.

The same goes for women in the workplace - as an employer I will simply have nothing to do with any of my female employees in a social context, especially where alcohol is involved. 99% of the time nothing will happen but the 1% when something is misconstrued or missrepresented (like the school in Carlow) it ruins your life, business, and marriage.

As for the OP, I probably would have called the guards - I don’t think it’s right to do nothing but in this day and age men can’t assume that everything will be ok because they are a good samaritan. If an accusation is made (even by a bystander who makes an incorrect assumption - remember it had been drummed into us that all men are rapists), the man is guilty until proven innocent and reputation destruction via anonymous social media accounts leaves you no recourse.

elperello · 30-11-2020 4:10pm

Never hesitate to call the Garda Station or 999 if you think someone is in a dangerous situation.

Members of AGS are trained to deal with such incidents.

One eyed Jack · 30-11-2020 5:15pm

popa smurf wrote: »

Was out early this morning had to drive young lad to work and I was passing through our local town and I spotted this young one, she was legless on her own and looked very disoriented, my first thought was to stop and try to get her home safely as I have a young daughter myself. But than I said fucck better keep going and not get involved just wondering what would you have done.

I would’ve helped out. I have done in the past in similar circumstances and I’d always help out. Wrote this before in a similar thread asking about what would people do if they saw a lost child -

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Happened to me before in a hospital, it was a few years after the James Bulger case and I was 19 at the time. The child of about 3 looked like he was just wandering the corridors on his own and I could see the stressful realisation was kicking in. I just picked him up and was going to bring him to reception when back around the corner came the mother, and the look she gave me... I knew how bad it looked then alright. She took the child and went on her way.

I'd do the same again tbh, wouldn't give a fcuk, a lost child is a lost child. Definitely a bit of an over-reaction OP with the Gardaí being called and the whole lot, but even if I knew that could happen, it's still a lot easier on my conscience than the alternative. Fair play to your friend OP, I wouldn't give a fcuk what "society" thinks in that case either. It's not society thinks anything of men with children at all, and any man that thinks that way is down to his own insecurity about himself.

I’d view an incapacitated girl, woman or grown man the same way, and anyone saying they’d be wary of helping someone out because of any risk to themselves is contributing to their own hysteria.

Antares35 · 30-11-2020 5:40pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I would’ve helped out. I have done in the past in similar circumstances and I’d always help out. Wrote this before in a similar thread asking about what would people do if they saw a lost child -

I’d view an incapacitated girl, woman or grown man the same way, and anyone saying they’d be wary of helping someone out because of any risk to themselves is contributing to their own hysteria.

I'm a woman and I wouldn't physically pick up a lost child unless it was in immediate danger. I'd probably enlist the assistance of another adult or employee etc in the vicinity so that I wasn't acting alone, before approaching the child and trying to find it's caregiver.

Nobody is hysterical by the way, except maybe the poster who was using profanities to insult other posters for refusing to hypothetically rescue his daughter.

30-11-2020 5:43pm

4yo child, on their own, I'd definitely call the Gardai, just stay with them right where they are and dont go with them or take them anywhere, juat so they dont walk out onto a road, anyone laying down on the ground, looking incapacitated Id do the same, Id call the Gardai and an ambulance, after, I would approach with caution and check them, if it turns out to be some kind of a set up or scam then you catch them in the act/dont need to try call the Gardai and have already done so and covered yourself ,dont need to fend anyone off and can even dissuafe them by stating uou already called the Gardai.

One eyed Jack · 30-11-2020 5:44pm

Antares35 wrote: »

I'm a woman and I wouldn't physically pick up a lost child unless it was in immediate danger. I'd probably enlist the assistance of another adult or employee etc in the vicinity so that I wasn't acting alone, before approaching the child and trying to find it's caregiver.

Nobody is hysterical by the way, except maybe the poster who was using profanities to insult other posters for refusing to hypothetically rescue his daughter.

They are if they see someone in distress or in a bad way and their over-riding thought is what could happen to themselves in that situation.

I don’t see what difference it makes to your argument that you’re a woman either tbh, women aren’t any more of a danger to children (or adults) than anyone else solely by virtue of the fact that they’re a woman.

Antares35 · 30-11-2020 5:55pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

They are if they see someone in distress or in a bad way and their over-riding thought is what could happen to themselves in that situation.

I don’t see what difference it makes to your argument that you’re a woman either tbh, women aren’t any more of a danger to children (or adults) than anyone else solely by virtue of the fact that they’re a woman.

That doesn't make someone hysterical, it makes them someone who has a different opinion to yours, that is all.

My point about being a woman is that typically women are viewed as more benign in the context of whether they are a danger to children, however notwithstanding this commonly held view, I still would not pick up someone else's child.

One eyed Jack · 30-11-2020 6:03pm

Antares35 wrote: »

That doesn't make someone hysterical, it makes them someone who has a different opinion to yours, that is all.

My point about being a woman is that typically women are viewed as more benign in the context of whether they are a danger to children, however notwithstanding this commonly held view, I still would not pick up someone else's child.

It’s not just a difference of opinion, it’s their irrational thought processes that have kicked in and they’re already imagining themselves being accused of improper behaviour when they haven’t even done anything yet by way of trying to help out! That’s hysteria, contributing to their own hysteria.

With regard to your opinion about how women are perceived, I’ll agree with you that it’s a commonly held view alright.

30-11-2020 6:17pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I would’ve helped out. I have done in the past in similar circumstances and I’d always help out. Wrote this before in a similar thread asking about what would people do if they saw a lost child -

It's not really a similar example though. One being a lost child, and the other being a drunk young woman out late at night.

I suspect that most people would help a child. I certainly would lead them to an information booth, or an authority nearby.

I’d view an incapacitated girl, woman or grown man the same way, and anyone saying they’d be wary of helping someone out because of any risk to themselves is contributing to their own hysteria

I don't get this need to exaggerate. There haven't been any hysterics here. People have stated a concern about dealing with a con/trickery, being held accountable for damages, or such. All reasonable fears.. and most have said they would have contacted the Gardai.

There's no reason to blow the responses out of proportion.

BorneTobyWilde · 30-11-2020 6:18pm

It's a bit llike this, wHAT wOULD yOU dO

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRWBbS3ZOD0

One eyed Jack · 30-11-2020 6:30pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's not really a similar example though. One being a lost child, and the other being a drunk young woman out late at night.

I suspect that most people would help a child. I certainly would lead them to an information booth, or an authority nearby.

I know, I thought that too, same as I thought most people would help out a girl in a bad way, and I still think most people would, in spite of some of the posts in this thread.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I don't get this need to exaggerate. There haven't been any hysterics here. People have stated a concern about dealing with a con/trickery, being held accountable for damages, or such. All reasonable fears.. and most have said they would have contacted the Gardai.

There's no reason to blow the responses out of proportion.

All reasonable fears, based on what exactly? The fear of being accused of improper behaviour?

So it’s reasonable in those circumstances to assume someone who is unknown to you would falsely accuse you (not ‘you’ personally) of improper behaviour? You have no evidence whatsoever on which to base that assumption about them!

Seems convenient, rather than reasonable, that you assume someone is capable of accusing you of improper behaviour in order to conclude it’s best you don’t help them.

I’m not the person blowing anything out of proportion.

Antares35 · 30-11-2020 6:34pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

It’s not just a difference of opinion, it’s their irrational thought processes that have kicked in and they’re already imagining themselves being accused of improper behaviour when they haven’t even done anything yet by way of trying to help out! That’s hysteria, contributing to their own hysteria.

With regard to your opinion about how women are perceived, I’ll agree with you that it’s a commonly held view alright.

Who are you to determine that it's irrational though? It's irrational in your opinion, that is all. In the opinion of someone holding such thoughts, it is not. Can you not accept that we all have different and indeed subjective views and will weigh situations up according to our own values, experiences, beliefs etc? Sorry but your mental gymnastics does not get you over the "hysterical" threshold. Nobody is hysterical. You can keep calling it that, it doesn't make it true.

One eyed Jack · 30-11-2020 6:45pm

Antares35 wrote: »

Who are you to determine that it's irrational though? It's irrational in your opinion, that is all. In the opinion of someone holding such thoughts, it is not. Can you not accept that we all have different and indeed subjective views and will weigh situations up according to our own values, experiences, beliefs etc? Sorry but your mental gymnastics does not get you over the "hysterical" threshold. Nobody is hysterical. You can keep calling it that, it doesn't make it true.

It doesn’t matter “who” I am, same as it doesn’t matter that you’re a woman. It doesn’t lend any weight to either of our opinions.

It’s objectively irrational and hysterical, if someone’s fear of someone else unknown to them accusing them of improper behaviour, is sufficient to incapacitate them.

The fact that they have already played out a negative scenario in their own heads without ever having done anything in the first place is the mental gymnastics. Most people wouldn’t give a second thought to helping someone in a bad way, precisely because they’re not thinking they might be accused of improper behaviour! Only a small number of people think that way, which is grand, fine, whatever.

Ottoman_1000 · 30-11-2020 6:51pm

A situation happened in our town News Years eve 3 years ago. Local bar man on his was home after locking up his pub drove by a girl stumbling all over the place. He knew who the girl was so got her in the car and brought her home, parents came out and there was obviously awful commotion as the girl was under age and absolutely pissed!!! Next day the girl told her parents a story of what happened her in the car on the way home and it wasn't looking good for the barman. The father called into his pub the next day and caused murder...don't know much about what happened after that but no criminal chargers were ever brought up but there is still a few locals who only speak black on that barman...

kerryjack · 30-11-2020 6:51pm

Unfortunately It's just the way things are gone. I wouldn't even drop babysitter home after a night out, I would always make sure there is someone with me.

30-11-2020 7:21pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I know, I thought that too, same as I thought most people would help out a girl in a bad way, and I still think most people would, in spite of some of the posts in this thread.

The situations are different though. Some people have had negative experiences from attempting to help other adults, and that has some bearing on whether people feel comfortable getting involved.

Years ago, I tried to help a girl outside a nightclub who was puking and trying to sleep, obviously having drank far too much. I was encouraging her to stay awake and sit upright. Her friends came along, and proceeded to rip me to shreds, making all manner of accusations.

Now, that's a minor example of a negative, and I don't consider it to be terribly risky, but I have ended up in fights or been assaulted from random little things in the past. So, I'm naturally much more careful in how I deal with other people, especially when they're under the influence of a drug of some kind.

All reasonable fears, based on what exactly? The fear of being accused of improper behaviour?

The fear of a negative response, or consequence of helping out. It doesn't need to be specific... since as I said earlier, situations tend to be different, and it's not reasonable to expect an absolute yes/no for every situation.

So it’s reasonable in those circumstances to assume someone who is unknown to you would falsely accuse you (not ‘you’ personally) of improper behaviour? You have no evidence whatsoever on which to base that assumption about them!

Seems convenient, rather than reasonable, that you assume someone is capable of accusing you of improper behaviour in order to conclude it’s best you don’t help them.

I’m not the person blowing anything out of proportion.

Sure you are, since people have voiced their concerns over what might happen. And it has happened before to people... posters here could find individual articles or references to show that, if they really wanted to.

Is the risk high enough to warrant concern? Who gets to judge that? Surely, that would be up to the people involved.. since they're the ones who would have to deal with those consequences.

You see, throughout my life, in various countries, I've had a broad range of experiences where I involved myself with other peoples problems, and came out of it, swearing never to be placed in such a situation again. Lessons learned and all that.

That's not to say that I wouldn't help someone in obvious trouble. I had a lifeguard certification for a reason. I did first aid courses years ago for the same reason. I wanted to be prepared should the need arise.. but that doesn't extend to a drunk woman in the street when I have no witnesses to support me as to what happens next. It's simple common sense.. for me. Your own viewpoint, can be different, and I have no issue with you feeling that way..

30-11-2020 7:28pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

It doesn’t matter “who” I am, same as it doesn’t matter that you’re a woman. It doesn’t lend any weight to either of our opinions.

It’s objectively irrational and hysterical, if someone’s fear of someone else unknown to them accusing them of improper behaviour, is sufficient to incapacitate them.

They've said that they wouldn't involve themselves directly, but call the Gardai to help out. That's not being incapacitated. Incapacitated would suggested that they couldn't do anything as a result of their fears... which is not the case.

It's irrational that you're disregarding any personal experience they might have about such a situation in favor of your own opinion. And you keep repeating the claim of hysteria, but nobody is screaming and running around shouting about their horrors. Statements/reasons were given.. that's it. Just because you disagree with them, doesn't make them hysterical.

Antares35 · 30-11-2020 7:36pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

It doesn’t matter “who” I am, same as it doesn’t matter that you’re a woman. It doesn’t lend any weight to either of our opinions.

It’s objectively irrational and hysterical, if someone’s fear of someone else unknown to them accusing them of improper behaviour, is sufficient to incapacitate them.

The fact that they have already played out a negative scenario in their own heads without ever having done anything in the first place is the mental gymnastics. Most people wouldn’t give a second thought to helping someone in a bad way, precisely because they’re not thinking they might be accused of improper behaviour! Only a small number of people think that way, which is grand, fine, whatever.

No, it isn't clear at all, how you reason from a weighted decision to hysteria. Nobody is hysterical, no matter how much you wish them to be

One eyed Jack · 30-11-2020 7:54pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

That's not to say that I wouldn't help someone in obvious trouble. I had a lifeguard certification for a reason. I did first aid courses years ago for the same reason. I wanted to be prepared should the need arise.. but that doesn't extend to a drunk woman in the street when I have no witnesses to support me as to what happens next. It's simple common sense.. for me. Your own viewpoint, can be different, and I have no issue with you feeling that way..

This is exactly what I’m saying. Plenty of people have had negative experiences, which is one thing, but how often does anyone find themselves in the circumstances in the opening post? I suspect the answer is almost never, and yet here they are imagining that they wouldn’t help because of the possibility of negative outcomes for themselves! Most people will still help someone out in spite of the possibility of negative outcomes. It’s equally irrational, but it’s because we observe someone in a bad way and it makes us uncomfortable.

I know all about lifeguard training too, but mine was memorable for all the wrong reasons - I hadn’t foreseen the outcome of carrying a girl on my hip up the length of the pool, and I begged her to give me a few minutes before she hauled me out of the water when it was her turn to perform CPR, but she was having none of it. Everyone was horrified, I was mortified. That negative experience then still wouldn’t put me off jumping into water to rescue a girl who was drowning now. I just wouldn’t do it wearing speedos

:pac:

PsychoPete · 30-11-2020 7:56pm

If something doesn't involve me then I'll keep going and mind my own business

jmlad2020 · 30-11-2020 7:58pm

PsychoPete wrote: »

If something doesn't involve me then I'll keep going and mind my own business

You are walking back from the shops late at night after having run out of milk for the morning.

Up ahead you hear the muffled screams of a woman being violently raped in a back alley.

You just walk past yeah?

rapul · 30-11-2020 8:00pm

Jaysus

Mimon · 30-11-2020 8:04pm

Few years ago there was a woman sitting on the kerb in Phibsboro obviously hammered.

Was really cold - something like -3 and was only about 7 in the evening. Asked her was she OK and she said she had been hitting the vodka hard as she was having bad period pains. Convinced her to get a taxi home and hailed one for her. Offered to escort her home but she said her husband wouldn't be too pleased to see me with her under those circumstances.

Sad that we live in a society where people would walk by when someone obviously needs help.

pat k · 30-11-2020 8:05pm

I Honestly think I would stop and see if she was ok I would be wondering if she was ok if I didn;t stop etc. if she was totally out of it I would ring d local guards I would have no fear of being accused of something in those situations .

Mimon · 30-11-2020 8:06pm

Ottoman_1000 wrote: »

A situation happened in our town News Years eve 3 years ago. Local bar man on his was home after locking up his pub drove by a girl stumbling all over the place. He knew who the girl was so got her in the car and brought her home, parents came out and there was obviously awful commotion as the girl was under age and absolutely pissed!!! Next day the girl told her parents a story of what happened her in the car on the way home and it wasn't looking good for the barman. The father called into his pub the next day and caused murder...don't know much about what happened after that but no criminal chargers were ever brought up but there is still a few locals who only speak black on that barman...

Ughh, the thought of living in small village with that sort of mentality.

What would you have done?

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