What would you have done?

Silentcorner

SmartinMartin wrote: »

Bull****. It is that black and white. If her condition is such that it alarms you enough to think you should stop, you should fu¢kin well stop. Dealing with what happens next is up to you, when it happens, but this opt-out crap I'm seeing on here is just awful.

5 years ago this wouldn't even have been made a thread...helping a women in need of help is an automatic response most decent men wouldn't even question, it is how most of us were reared.

But a lot has changed in those years and it is not worth the risk for most of us...in fact I'd go so far to advise any man it is irresponsible for any man to help a drunk woman...there was an ad campaign on television not so long ago reinforcing that very thing!!!

SmartinMartin

I don't want anything from you, but if my post makes you think about your civic duty hopefully it just might help someone you come across in the future.

lalababa

I'd suggest that one would have a cinematic quality camera with a sound man in tow handy in the car for just such a situation 🙄. Just in case you decide to give her a seeing too infront if the young lad, don't you know.

SmartinMartin

Silentcorner wrote: »

5 years ago this wouldn't even have been made a thread...helping a women in need of help is an automatic response most decent men wouldn't even question, it is how most of us were reared.

But a lot has changed in those years and it is not worth the risk for most of us...in fact I'd go so far to advise any man it is irresponsible for any man to help a drunk woman...there was an ad campaign on television not so long ago reinforcing that very thing!!!

I know what you're saying, but if people just fall in with this train of thought what is going to happen to society? Fu¢k that, keep a sense of decency, look out for others, try and help where you can.

dobman88

Silentcorner wrote: »

there was an ad campaign on television not so long ago reinforcing that very thing!!!

It's still on, I saw it last week. Guy picks a drunk girl up from the kerb and the slogan was something like if you see it, report it. No context that he was trying to assault her, just looks like hes trying to help. Why would I stop and try to help and open myself up to that can of worms. As I said previously, it's a desperate sad state of affairs but its the harsh reality of modern times.

Maybe if fathers were half the men they were just a few decades ago, young women wouldn’t be out on their own, drunk and in need of help from strangers.

If you want to point fingers, point them where you should. That’s not a bunch of fellas well wide to the fact that a drunk young one today could well ruin your life as a consequence of your act of chivalry.

Fathers mind your daughters. Leave the rest of us to get on with a clear conscience and an uncomplicated life.

jmlad2020

SmartinMartin wrote: »

I know what you're saying, but if people just fall in with this train of thought what is going to happen to society? Fu¢k that, keep a sense of decency, look out for others, try and help where you can.

** Walks past and ignores homeless people on a daily basis and claims the moral highground **

Kraftwerk

Silentcorner wrote: »

It is awful that we find ourselves in this age where this question is even considered, I'm sure most of us have helped out women for various reasons on the very basis that someone would do the same for our sisters or partners etc.

But let us not forget -

Syl Roche, and elderly man well known in Dublin, posed for a photograph having being asked by a woman he didn't know, she would go on to falsely accuse him of sexual assault (without consequences), the garda file was approved by the DPP and it made into a court and the national news cycle despite the existence of video footage that exonerated him.

A number of perfectly innocent male teachers arrived at work in Carlow last Tuesday morning as per usual, by the end of the day they were being shamed nationally and internationally by politicians, "journalists" and angry feminists as perverts and paedos.

Every man has to ask himself how much risk is he willing to expose himself to in this day and age, I have seen it first hand, I have seen an innocent man who gave up his free time to coach young women be falsely accused of sexual assault.

You made the right call OP, chivalry is thing of the past.

So how do those people avoid those situations or manage to live their lives? Refuse to take a photo with anyone ever again? Quit your job as a teacher for fear of getting accused of something? Never approach a woman in a romantic way? Never help another person ever again?

For every man that was unfortunate enough to get accused of something there's thousands who manage to do these things without issue.

There's some sort of mass hysteria over this stuff where people seem afraid to do anything.

SmartinMartin

jmlad2020 wrote: »

** Walks past and ignores homeless people on a daily basis and claims the moral highground **

So you know me personally, do you.
What an idiotic post.

MrMusician18

Had a similar situation happen to me only it was a young male and he was stumbling along the canal. It was freshers week and this chap had clearly enjoyed a few too many. He'd a fallen over and hurt himself.

I was worried he go into the water, so after sitting him down, I called the guards to come pick him up.

He will probably never thank me for it, but I believe I did him a good turn that night.

Silentcorner

Kraftwerk wrote: »

So how do those people avoid those situations or manage to live their lives? Refuse to take a photo with anyone ever again? Quit your job as a teacher for fear of getting accused of something? Never approach a woman in a romantic way? Never help another person ever again?

For every man that was unfortunate enough to get accused of something there's thousands who manage to do these things without issue.

There's some sort of mass hysteria over this stuff where people seem afraid to do anything.

I don't have the answers...I'm just pointing out two well documented recent incidents of how innocent men have had their reputations and I'd imagine their own metal well being damaged by today's toxic environment that men need to be conscious of...and one incident I have seen first hand!!!

I think we are doing great damage to a generation of young people who will suffer the consequences in years to come, but today, as I said, every man has to ask himself how much risk he is willing to expose himself to...it is up to him as an individual.

But going anywhere near a strange drunk woman on a street is playing with fire.

Call it an unintended consequence of telling a generation of young women that men are inherently toxic!!

Antares35

SmartinMartin wrote: »

Bull****. It is that black and white. If her condition is such that it alarms you enough to think you should stop, you should fu¢kin well stop. Dealing with what happens next is up to you, when it happens, but this opt-out crap I'm seeing on here is just awful.

You're very angry. We are all entitled to our opinions and to make a judgement call as we see fit should we find ourselves in a similar situation.

Regarding the CCTV point being made, it may well exonerate an innocent party, but why should a "good Samaritan" be under a shroud of suspicion until CCTV is viewed and verified etc.? He will essentially be guilty until the CCTV proves he is innocent.

We do live in sad times, that much I agree with and it would be lovely if we could all just casually do our best for each other without having to weigh up the potential consequences. But, we don't live in such times. We have to weigh things up. Sure how often do you see a couple having a fight and roaring at each other and when anyone intervenes the woman usually turn on the person intervening to protect the guy who was pulverising her a minute before?

SmartinMartin

I'm delighted that anger or happiness or any other feeling can now be determined over t'internet, fair play to you.
I'm amazed that you didn't detect my feeling of disgust at the cowardly attitudes displayed on this thread so far.

MrMusician18

This thread has got me thinking further. There was one night they're in April/May, in the midst of the most limiting phase of the first lockdown I was out for an evening run and passed a young woman clearly extremely worse for wear. She was in a party dress and was stumbling over and back across the footpath. My first thought I admit was disgust to see someone flouting the regulations, but then did think maybe I should give her some help. Like the OP, I thought better of it and literally jogged on. There was absolutely no way I was going to intervene. Coming back on my second lap, I noticed that male cyclist did stop to give her help and immediately thought he was brave or foolish.

Then there was another time at Christmas last year walking down Grafton St, I noticed a young homeless woman passed out, seemingly choking on her own vomit. I walked on, but I felt guilty that someone was so abandoned on a busy street and walked back. I called for an ambulance and the dispatcher asked me to touch her, to check for breathing and I couldn't do it, nor would any of the men or women that had gathered. She came around eventually though and told me and indeed everyone else to **** off.

Sometimes reluctance to help comes from not wanting to get involved, sometimes it's the bystander effect. And sometimes it for your own protection.

Kraftwerk

Silentcorner wrote: »

I don't have the answers...I'm just pointing out two well documented recent incidents of how innocent men have had their reputations and I'd imagine their own metal well being damaged by today's toxic environment that men need to be conscious of...and one incident I have seen first hand!!!

I think we are doing great damage to a generation of young people who will suffer the consequences in years to come, but today, as I said, every man has to ask himself how much risk he is willing to expose himself to...it is up to him as an individual.

But going anywhere near a strange drunk woman on a street is playing with fire.

Call it an unintended consequence of telling a generation of young women that men are inherently toxic!!

The answer is you don't live in a bubble afraid to interact with other people. You carry on and live your life because the chances of this stuff actually happening to you are extremely slim. It's the "white van men are taking children" and "they're stealing all the dogs" thing. A couple of random incidents and all of a sudden everyone is in panic mode afraid to move.

I'm sure there's way more risk in plenty other things you do on a daily basis than the risk of getting publicly branded a pervert for asking a girl if she wants a lift on a ****ty morning.

Antares35

SmartinMartin wrote: »

I'm delighted that anger or happiness or any other feeling can now be determined over t'internet, fair play to you.
I'm amazed that you didn't detect my feeling of disgust at the cowardly attitudes displayed on this thread so far.

Use of profanities tends to give it away

Silentcorner

Kraftwerk wrote: »

The answer is you don't live in a bubble afraid to interact with other people. You carry on and live your life because the chances of this stuff actually happening to you are extremely slim. It's the "white van men are taking children" and "they're stealing all the dogs" thing. A couple of random incidents and all of a sudden everyone is in panic mode afraid to move.

I'm sure there's way more risk in plenty other things you do on a daily basis than the risk of getting publicly branded a pervert for asking a girl if she wants a lift on a ****ty morning.

Which is why I mentioned the two recent and very public incidents...this is not a figment of anyone's imagination.

You'd want to be blind or willfully ignorant not to notice the noxious message being pumped into women that men are toxic beings that pose a risk...as pointed out already, they are running ads on tv to the same effect!!!

Men are not creating any hysteria, they are quiet rightly reacting to it!!!!

Approaching a drunk young women on a street is madness...are you going to lay a hand on her if she needs physical assistance?

danois

I think if you are ever worried someone is in trouble you need to help. You also need to cover yourself as it’s so easy for something to get misconstrued or for someone to downright lie. I would always check on them and see can I help but I would also do it with my phone on record so as to cover myself. Yes it’s crap that you need to think to do that but it’s normal to worry about covering your own arse these days. It’s not a reason to ignore someone in need tho.

I get the feeling that the few gung-ho types in here would be the first to call the guards if it was their daughter and they were out looking for her and came across a middle-aged man with her.

SmartinMartin

Antares35 wrote: »

Use of profanities tends to give it away

Unfortunately I didn't use enough to refer to you.
Jesus Christ people, get involved. Help where it's needed, protect the vulnerable.
If you are too self-centred or afraid to do it how are your children going to learn a sense of community, a sense of worth?.

MrMusician18

SmartinMartin wrote: »

Unfortunately I didn't use enough to refer to you.
Jesus Christ people, get involved. Help where it's needed, protect the vulnerable.
If you are too self-centred or afraid to do it how are your children going to learn a sense of community, a sense of worth?.

They aren't going to learn about community or helping others. They are going to learn, from the hard lessons of other men, that its just not worth helping, that the risks to personal reputation are just too high. This message will be reinforced by media campaigns and society generally.

Yes, it will lead to further individualization, and atomization of society, but that's seemingly what we want. If you get into a bind that makes you vulnerable, you are pretty much on your own.

Being the good samaritan is dead.

Tell me how

MrMusician18 wrote: »

They aren't going to learn about community or helping others. They are going to learn, from the hard lessons of other men, that its just not worth helping, that the risks to personal reputation are just too high. This message will be reinforced by media campaigns and society generally.

Yes, it will lead to further individualization, and atomization of society, but that's seemingly what we want. If you get into a bind that makes you vulnerable, you are pretty much on your own.

Being the good samaritan is dead.

Talk about over-reacting.

Don't get me wrong, anyone accused falsely of having committed a crime is suffering a complete injustice and someone who makes a false claim (demonstrably so) should be prosecuted for doing so but the idea that we must all keep our eyes shut and our heads down for fear we would end up in such a scenario is complete histrionics.

The idea that someone considering helping someone would be completely at their whim as to whether the end up with their name being sullied is an over reaction. Use your phone to record audio or video, call to someone else to help with you as another witness. Speak loudly so others can hear what you are saying are all basic steps which someone could take to protect themselves while also actually helping someone likely in need. To do anything else is just looking for excuses to not offer assistance.

1874

Kraftwerk wrote: »

What are people afraid of happening if they asked her if she was OK? If she takes it the wrong way or is uncomfortable she'll ignore you or say she's grand or something. She's not going to start blowing a rape whistle at the side of the road because someone asked if she was ok.
More than likely she'd either say she's OK, take the lift or ask to use your phone to call someone to pick her up.
A worse thing would be to carry on, do nothing and hear something happened to her. That'd worry me more than accidentally looking like a perv.

How do you know? in that state, you wouldnt know what or how they'd remember any interaction and if anyone saw genuine help being offered, you wouldn't know how they would interpret it or what they would say they saw or thought they saw.

Tell me how wrote: »

I would have put my phone on audio record and asked he was she ok or did she need assistance.
If the answers concerned me, I'd have then called the Gardai.

If someone I cared about was in such a situation, I'd like to think someone would be good willed enough to help them.

I'd like to think they wouldn't get into that state, now I did in my younger years and women I knew got me into and left me in precarious situations that I had to defuse or defend against, it's different now, even worse, I will be advising my son to stay well clear, call for help from a distance if need be, if none is forthcoming, then it's not his problem, because if he helped there are people willing to interpret a situation how they want, a false accusation as serious as that is might be the least thing to be concerned about.

SmartinMartin wrote: »

SNIP

Well, if she is, then its a reflection on you and your parenting, no ones responsibility to fix that for you and deal with whatever the outcome might be.

SmartinMartin wrote: »

Bull****. It is that black and white. If her condition is such that it alarms you enough to think you should stop, you should fu¢kin well stop. Dealing with what happens next is up to you, when it happens, but this opt-out crap I'm seeing on here is just awful.

Nooo, it is not black and white at all, I dont want to say the T word, becuase I think you genuinely seem to believe what you are saying.

pinktoe wrote: »

Most cars have dash cams at this stage. Pull in behind her and ask if you can call someone for her. Let her wait in your car alone while someone picks her. You wait at front of the car on camera.
Better than hearing her getting attacked or killed by another motorist.
If an allegation is made against you take legal action

NEVER let a stranger in that condition in your car, you think a dashcam is going to protect you. That is naive nonsense, wait at the front of your own car while they sit down inside! you're having a larf, assuming they don't barf all over the place, or they dont claim to be injured (might claim or sue), assuming they dont slice open your car to hoist her out.
ANd thats all assuming they don't claim or think you did anything else,

Someone gets in that state, they are responsible for themselves, maybe call from a distance, but any help 999 for being drunk out of your mind should be an unsubsidised bill for the cost of the ambulance even if they are so drunk they decline.

SmartinMartin wrote: »

I don't want anything from you, but if my post makes you think about your civic duty hopefully it just might help someone you come across in the future.

There is no civic duty to assist some so drunk out of their mind that you should stop and endanger yourself. Whiteknights are idiots/maybe even want to row in to help/need to/maybe even want something, world of trouble waiting for a genuine person

SmartinMartin wrote: »

I know what you're saying, but if people just fall in with this train of thought what is going to happen to society? Fu¢k that, keep a sense of decency, look out for others, try and help where you can.

It has already happened

Silentcorner wrote: »

Which is why I mentioned the two recent and very public incidents...this is not a figment of anyone's imagination.

You'd want to be blind or willfully ignorant not to notice the noxious message being pumped into women that men are toxic beings that pose a risk...as pointed out already, they are running ads on tv to the same effect!!!

Men are not creating any hysteria, they are quiet rightly reacting to it!!!!

Approaching a drunk young women on a street is madness...are you going to lay a hand on her if she needs physical assistance?

I dont have a tv account, could you enlighten me (genuine request). I guess these are far worse than the ads from the 90's that portray men as bumbling idiots who cant wash their own jeans without it being a drama.

SmartinMartin wrote: »

Unfortunately I didn't use enough to refer to you.
Jesus Christ people, get involved. Help where it's needed, protect the vulnerable.
If you are too self-centred or afraid to do it how are your children going to learn a sense of community, a sense of worth?.

Vulnerable, riiiight, well how about personal responsibility, don't make yourself vulnerable by getting drunk out their minds.

Gervais08

People saying that it’s outlandish to believe anyone would get into any kind of trouble - let’s say a guy stops to ask Ms X if she is ok. This is on CCTV, or a passing dashcam etc.

She is later assaulted by a third party. It’s not covered by cameras.

She can’t remember details (op said she was intoxicated yes ?) and police view cameras or make an appeal.

That innocent guy is screwed. He might never be convicted but he’ll be identified.

I’m a woman and the onus shouldn’t be on whether a guy should stop to help us home - it should be on us keeping ourselves safe.

Tell me how

1874 wrote: »

I'd like to think they wouldn't get into that state, now I did in my younger years and women I knew got me into and left me in precarious situations that I had to defuse or defend against, it's different now, even worse, I will be advising my son to stay well clear, call for help from a distance if need be, if none is forthcoming, then it's not his problem, because if he helped there are people willing to interpret a situation how they want, a false accusation as serious as that is might be the least thing to be concerned about.

What will you be telling your daughter were she to end up in such a situation?

(Please don't say she won't or anything similar, the instances of girls drinks being spiked I would think are much more likely to occur than an instance of false accusation which you are so concerned about)

MrMusician18

SmartinMartin wrote: »

SNIP

I'm sorry, over quite literally seen how the good samaritan is dead. Well over 2-3 hundred people walked past the woman in the time I walked past then I returned to help that was choking on her vomit. Most do not want to get involved these days as it generally draws hassle on yourself. Even if it's a 1in a billion chance of a false accusation, why would an individual take a risk, they're is quite literally nothing it for them as its a selfless act.

It is far easier to walk on.

Tell me how

Tell me how wrote: »

Talk about over-reacting.

Don't get me wrong, anyone accused falsely of having committed a crime is suffering a complete injustice and someone who makes a false claim (demonstrably so) should be prosecuted for doing so but the idea that we must all keep our eyes shut and our heads down for fear we would end up in such a scenario is complete histrionics.

The idea that someone considering helping someone would be completely at their whim as to whether the end up with their name being sullied is an over reaction. Use your phone to record audio or video, call to someone else to help with you as another witness. Speak loudly so others can hear what you are saying are all basic steps which someone could take to protect themselves while also actually helping someone likely in need. To do anything else is just looking for excuses to not offer assistance.

You can't call it an overreaction and then give various steps one should take to protect themselves.

SmartinMartin

MrMusician18 wrote: »

I'm sorry, over quite literally seen how the good samaritan is dead. Well over 2-3 hundred people walked past the woman in the time I walked past then I returned to help that was choking on her vomit. Most do not want to get involved these days as it generally draws hassle on yourself. Even if it's a 1in a billion chance of a false accusation, why would an individual take a risk, they're is quite literally nothing it for them as its a selfless act.

It is far easier to walk on.

It's far easier to walk on.

Christ. Get a grip people and contribute to your environs.

1874

SmartinMartin wrote: »

1874 and gervais08......


What a pair of di¢kheads. Hopefully your spawn have brains.

You know when you are dealing with someone of this level, can't manage to give a half decent reply, resort to insults and cant take on board/refuses to listen to reason in the replies by others that highlight the risks for anyone intervening.
I think the poster genuinely believe someone else should clean up after their mess (parenting), poster seems to think or know his daughter would be in this state.

Would you poster? give the same advice for your daughter if the drunk person was a guy? add to that a middle aged guy?

SmartinMartin

MrMusician18 wrote: »

I'm sorry, over quite literally seen how the good samaritan is dead. Well over 2-3 hundred people walked past the woman in the time I walked past then I returned to help that was choking on her vomit. Most do not want to get involved these days as it generally draws hassle on yourself. Even if it's a 1in a billion chance of a false accusation, why would an individual take a risk, they're is quite literally nothing it for them as its a selfless act.

It is far easier to walk on.

Grand. If you feel you did the right thing walk with your head proud.