What would you have done?

listermint

Actually an interesting question. I'd probably say I'd have done the same.

But last year when the car died a death due to a fuelling issue . I'd the hazard sign our and the flashers on and started the walk home on a not so nice regional road with no paths. I got I'd say a km from the car when a lovely girl stopped and asked did I need a lift. I said no sure your grand it's only up the hill there 15 minutes walk. She insisted and dropped me home.

That stuck with me. She didn't have to it was kind and I hope there's more of that in the country. Pay it forward.

BabysCoffee

We found a young drunk girl banging on a neighbours door.

We went over to see what was going on and she was so drunk she thought she was looking for a party in Kildare - our house is in Dublin!!

She said she was a medical student and ran off when we tried to ask her a few more questions. We could see her running falling up the road.

My husband asked me should he get in the car and follow her but I felt it was best to call the Guards and leave it with them.

jmlad2020

Hit The Road wrote: »

I won't be able to do anything because I don't live in the muslim getthos where that type of crime occurs.

Well aren't you a vile little creature.

Your casual racism disguises the fact that you'd probably piss your pants if you saw such a thing and run away like a little girl.

Galwayguy35

Something similar happened to me one winters morning about two years ago.

Two young women thumbing on the hard shoulder, they were obviously still out from the night before because they were still in dresses and heels but no way would I stop, its just not worth it.

Galwayguy35

SmartinMartin wrote: »

I really hope my daughter is never in this situation, but if she is I really hope she meets someone more caring than you shower of useless fu¢ks. Yes, I would have stopped to see if that girl needed help.

Its up to you to get your arse out of bed and get your own daughter home.

Samuel T. Cogley

StevenToast wrote: »

You know its a good thread when Mr.Feg is a contributor!

Frankly when he starts to sound like the voice of reason you know the place must have gone a bit potty.

I'd have called the Gardaí and let them know. I imagine if I had then asked the Gardaí if I should approach her to see if she's ok, they'd probably tell me not to.

But that's after having the time to put a few minutes thought into it, which the OP didn't really have.

Charlie Bucket

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I imagine if I had then asked the Gardaí if I should approach her to see if she's ok, they'd probably tell me not to.

That's some imagination. If she was close by surely they'd ask you if to see if she's OK or if she is in urgent need of assistance.

Charlie Bucket

Charlie Bucket wrote: »

That's some imagination. If she was close by surely they'd ask you if to see if she's OK or if she is in urgent need of assistance.

Not really, by asking the question it would put the onus on them to make a decision - ask a member of the public to intervene or send someone out to check on her.

One eyed Jack

One eyed Jack wrote: »

This is exactly what I’m saying. Plenty of people have had negative experiences, which is one thing, but how often does anyone find themselves in the circumstances in the opening post? I suspect the answer is almost never, and yet here they are imagining that they wouldn’t help because of the possibility of negative outcomes for themselves! Most people will still help someone out in spite of the possibility of negative outcomes. It’s equally irrational, but it’s because we observe someone in a bad way and it makes us uncomfortable.

Err.. I wouldn't be too sure about that.. many of us don't live in areas with small populations. I live in a rather large city (9 million), and in the areas where the bars/clubs/etc are in, it's quite common to see similar examples to what the OP described, but then, that's abroad.

In my hometown though, on a Saturday night, it wouldn't be rare to see men/women come out of the two crappy nightclubs, completely hosed out of their minds, and then decide to stagger the 2-3 miles home, stopping at one of the chippers, and eventually, collapsing against a wall in a funk. I've encountered such sitting outside my parents home, early in the morning, still hammered from the night before...

I know all about lifeguard training too, but mine was memorable for all the wrong reasons - I hadn’t foreseen the outcome of carrying a girl on my hip up the length of the pool, and I begged her to give me a few minutes before she hauled me out of the water when it was her turn to perform CPR, but she was having none of it. Everyone was horrified, I was mortified. That negative experience then still wouldn’t put me off jumping into water to rescue a girl who was drowning now. I just wouldn’t do it wearing speedos :pac:

I get that. but our experiences affect us all differently.

One eyed Jack

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Err.. I wouldn't be too sure about that.. many of us don't live in areas with small populations. I live in a rather large city (9 million), and in the areas where the bars/clubs/etc are in, it's quite common to see similar examples to what the OP described, but then, that's abroad.

In my hometown though, on a Saturday night, it wouldn't be rare to see men/women come out of the two crappy nightclubs, completely hosed out of their minds, and then decide to stagger the 2-3 miles home, stopping at one of the chippers, and eventually, collapsing against a wall in a funk. I've encountered such sitting outside my parents home, early in the morning, still hammered from the night before...

I get that. but our experiences affect us all differently.

Whether it’s a city of nine million or a small town or city with a few bars, the circumstances posed don’t change - the scenario is still a one on one encounter, in this case a girl in a bad way and the posters here having a genuine concern for her welfare. That’s not the same scenario as judging a gaggle of bambi legged young ones tottering out of their local or a city bar, feeling their way home and generally making a nuisance of themselves :pac:

Absolutely our experiences affect us all differently, which is why I’m saying it’s incredibly rare and some of us may never experience a girl on her own in a bad way who we assess is genuinely in need of assistance. Plenty of people will carry on and mind their own business, but many more people will stop and offer assistance, even if they’re aware they’re likely to be told to piss off. That’s a far more likely outcome in reality than the idea of them being accused of any improper behaviour.

If a person has experience of being accused by girls of improper behaviour on numerous occasions when their intent was to offer assistance, then I could understand why they might be reluctant to offer assistance to someone who they assess is in genuine need of assistance. But implying that because of the risk of young girls making false accusations of improper behaviour, they’re not going to take a risk on this one girl who they see as being in genuine need of assistance... I just don’t buy it that there are that many girls making false accusations of improper behaviour that they can be castigated in such a fashion without some compelling evidence of the phenomenon (and I don’t mean just news articles scraped from google).

Charlie Bucket

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Not really, by asking the question it would put the onus on them to make a decision - ask a member of the public to intervene or send someone out to check on her.

Intervene in what? They are not obliged to send anyone out to check. And if they asked you and then you said she was fine I am sure they would be thankful that they don't have to divert resources for no good reason.

Charlie Bucket

Charlie Bucket wrote: »

Intervene in what? They are not obliged to send anyone out to check. And if they asked you and then you said she was fine I am sure they would be thankful that they don't have to divert resources for no good reason.

Good luck. I won't bother with any of your posts again.

One eyed Jack

One eyed Jack wrote: »

If a person has experience of being accused by girls of improper behaviour on numerous occasions when their intent was to offer assistance, then I could understand why they might be reluctant to offer assistance to someone who they assess is in genuine need of assistance. .

Well.. I'm iffy about it because it's a common enough scam in Asia, where the person will claim some injury caused by you (while you were helping them), produce a witness, and it'll be settled out of court with some kind of monetary settlement. It hasn't happened to me, but I know two western guys it has happened to. I've heard of similar cases from friends living in Eastern Europe, so I wouldn't be terribly surprised if it has made its way over here too.

In any case, in terms of Ireland, I'll stick to deciding based on the circumstances, rather than making some claim that I would or wouldn't. TBH I really don't know how I'd react, because I've generally felt differently (due to experiences) even when faced with problems I've encountered before.

Ottoman_1000

Mimon wrote: »

Ughh, the thought of living in small village with that sort of mentality.

True...but I believe this type of mentality is rife throughout society in Ireland. You could be cleared in a grand jury of a crime here and there is still that attitude of the lad/girl is only so and so. I don't believe their innocent!

JustAThought

Ottoman_1000 wrote: »

True...but I believe this type of mentality is rife throughout society in Ireland. You could be cleared in a grand jury of a crime here and there is still that attitude of the lad/girl is only so and so. I don't believe their innocent!

Y a look at what happened recently at that party where a drunk female stalked and crashed her way into a sports group party & then voluntarily had sex with two men there but changed her mind the next day when her friend called her out as being little more than a slapper - ALL the innocent men named, their lives and professional careers ruined - the girls identity protected but the men who were found innocent in less than half an hour on the front page of every newspaper almost every day and their lives ruined.

As for girls going out and getting totally hammered and staggering around by themselves - this happens (pre covid) EVERY weekend to HUNDREDS of girls - how about their friends or brothers or family taking it in hand instead of expecting random strangers to fix their self inflicted drunked coma mess. Its not as thought its a rare occurence - and as we all know - in the city (Dublin) where there are 11 ambulances for a
million and a half people drunken call outs are not even on their horizon. And where do we send them - are there not enough routine stories about A&E awash with junkies and drunks vomiting in waiting rooms and causing a disruptive disgusting nuisance while taking up space in pressurised emergency departments while sobering up. The gaurds won’t arrest them nor bring them back to the station for a cuppa.

This isn’t the 1950’s anymore - people have to cop on when out and getting ossified. Very few people/women go out and drink alone in bars all night - at the end of the day you have to ask where are their friends/drinking buddies and why have they abandoned them? Maybe its because, like many, they do it every week and constantly expect others to pick up the mess after them of their own making - maybe they’ve done enough minding week after week, or maybe they’re tored of watching a friend apend their taxi money on drink and then expect to be bailed out - again.

At the end of the day the stakes are too high & people - specifically women - off their faces on drink and drugs or combinations of both can and do casually destroy lives.

Personal responsibility in relation to drink and choose your drinking friends wisely.

JustAThought

JustAThought wrote: »

Personal responsibility in relation to drink and choose your drinking friends wisely.

Any suggestion of personal responsibility is considered victim blaming.. People have the right to act whatever way they wish, wherever they want, and they're completely innocent of the consequences. Thats' the society we live in now.

JustAThought

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Any suggestion of personal responsibility is considered victim blaming.. People have the right to act whatever way they wish, wherever they want, and they're completely innocent of the consequences. Thats' the society we live in now.

y - and we have the like of the personal abusers on this site who are happy to abuse & take great vindictive pleasure in blaming anyone and everyone except the drunk, their friends & family - or in the case here - young girls parents. They are all given a wave by but anyone else - hung drawn and crucified and entirely to blame. Its people like this that make people think twice about stopping for drunks - lets face it - with that kind of attitude and hatred for a virtual drunk online its hard to imagine what levels of imagination and vindictiveness they would ramp up to for someone they knew, or cared about - or indeed someone they hated who innocently stopped to help a drunk.

As for personal responsibility - I totally agree. It can’t be everybody elses fault and responsibility all the time - but God forbid you mention it. No winder people are staying clear - lets face it - even if you found where someone lived and drove them home and they had lost/no keys and you rang the doorbell & left them in the porch it would then be your fault if they were subsequently murdered or felt they were then robbed or whatever - you would be dammed for life. For helping as best you could manage or felt fit to do.

Maybe all those keyboard martyrs could teach their daughters that - people do not want to get involved in the aftermaths of other peoples drunken binges anymore so know your friends and know your limits and have them or their friends know to ring your family or your parents for a lift when you are falling down drunk and wanting to magically get home safely. Times have changed and there are too many drunk daughters and teenagers abandoned by their families out there who think it is everyones problem and responsibility but their own. Drunk culture is alive and kicking in modern Ireland and modern ‘parenting’ - maybe they should run a campaign again on that - they used do in the early 90’s - the narrative would be shockingly different now.

ancapailldorcha

Deleted User wrote: »

Any suggestion of personal responsibility is considered victim blaming.. People have the right to act whatever way they wish, wherever they want, and they're completely innocent of the consequences. Thats' the society we live in now.

Based on what? Social media? Terrible metric in my experience.

I've never seen this sort of mentality outside Twitter/Facebook and those are the only two I bother with. Even working at two universities and having attended another two I've never come across this.

ancapailldorcha

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Based on what? Social media? Terrible metric in my experience.

I've never seen this sort of mentality outside Twitter/Facebook and those are the only two I bother with. Even working at two universities and having attended another two I've never come across this.

I'm not on twitter or facebook. The only social media I use would be boards, or wechat (when I'm in China).

I was basing it on boards, firstly (It's a common attitude on CA), and secondly, I have encountered it in University discussions. I've also worked at a variety of universities, including when coming back here as a visiting lecturer.

Still, I should have worded the paragraph better. I didn't mean it was widespread in society, except in certain areas/groups. Sorry.

ancapailldorcha

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not on twitter or facebook. The only social media I use would be boards, or wechat (when I'm in China).

I was basing it on boards, firstly (It's a common attitude on CA), and secondly, I have encountered it in University discussions. I've also worked at a variety of universities, including when coming back here as a visiting lecturer.

Still, I should have worded the paragraph better. I didn't mean it was widespread in society, except in certain areas/groups. Sorry.

I'll spare you my opinion of how beyond redemption Irish society would be if the CA forum was even remotely reflective of Irish society.

Boards isn't that popular and IME very few in Ireland have even heard of it. Most people tend to be reasonable enough to think that a rapist is always at fault, not the victim but at the same time that it's unwise for someone to be walking the streets alone while intoxicated.

Gervais08

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I'll spare you my opinion of how beyond redemption Irish society would be if the CA forum was even remotely reflective of Irish society.

Boards isn't that popular and IME very few in Ireland have even heard of it. Most people tend to be reasonable enough to think that a rapist is always at fault, not the victim but at the same time that it's unwise for someone to be walking the streets alone while intoxicated.

I see both your points - I was a few minutes off calling the Guards on a colleague (19) who failed to show next morning after a night out, she’d got cost with someone I thought looked a right creep but according to her “he had a black credit card!!” - so apparently legit.

No contact, no nothing - office worried sick. She turns in an hour late, frock on backwards and got an absolute earful about being careful.

I always remember someone saying “if anything happened to her we could never have said anything” - and that’s the point. She did a risky thing and got away with it, next time it’s easier to go off drunk with a stranger away from friends.

Anyone who assaults anyone it is 100% their fault, no one asks to be attacked up matter the circumstances.

BUT people need to know that often their actions and behaviour make them more likely to be a victim and should take more care.

Antares35

Gervais08 wrote: »

I see both your points - I was a few minutes off calling the Guards on a colleague (19) who failed to show next morning after a night out, she’d got cost with someone I thought looked a right creep but according to her “he had a black credit card!!” - so apparently legit.

No contact, no nothing - office worried sick. She turns in an hour late, frock on backwards and got an absolute earful about being careful.

I always remember someone saying “if anything happened to her we could never have said anything” - and that’s the point. She did a risky thing and got away with it, next time it’s easier to go off drunk with a stranger away from friends.

Anyone who assaults anyone it is 100% their fault, no one asks to be attacked up matter the circumstances.

BUT people need to know that often their actions and behaviour make them more likely to be a victim and should take more care.

I've a friend who regularly goes off the wall when she drinks. Thankfully now with lockdown we haven't had to put up with her antics for some time.

For years and years my heart was broken trying to look after her. The night would always start out well, a few of us would have a nice meal, maybe a bottle of wine. Head for a pint after. Rest of us be happy to call it a night after 4-5 pints, the usual. Not her though, she had to party party party til the small hours.

One of us always wound up babysitting her because she'd be out of her mind with drink, and being a young, attractive, outgoing woman, would be an easy target in that mess. We'd often planned to share a taxi home them she'd just decide she wanted to stay out. If we didn't go with her, she'd go alone and hook up with random strangers. Times it was 2 or 3 am and we'd all be dragging around town being refused entry to places that she was determined she was getting into. She'd often just disappear with someone! The next day we'd worry until she surfaced and sent a text in the afternoon.

If we tried to talk her into sharing a taxi home or whatever she'd just get verbally abusive. Eventually I just got sick of every night being ruined. I decided she was old enough to look after herself and we couldn't just keep running after her all the time. Tried to have the conversation with her sober about her reckless behaviour. She agreed, then just continued on anyway.

I more or less avoid anything drinks related with her now, and if she does go off on one, I just let her. I still worry about her, but I don't feel accountable for another adults behaviour.

I know for certain that if some poor guy stopped to help her he would get a mouthful of abuse from her, as we often did.

One eyed Jack

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Any suggestion of personal responsibility is considered victim blaming.. People have the right to act whatever way they wish, wherever they want, and they're completely innocent of the consequences. Thats' the society we live in now.

I’m all for the idea of everyone being held personally responsible for their own actions, but holding anyone responsible for the actions of someone else IS blaming the victim, and absolving the perpetrators of their personal responsibility. Thankfully the law at least doesn’t criminalise people for getting drunk or falling down asleep on the street, otherwise this case would have gone very differently -


Man jailed for rape of victim he found lying unconscious on Dublin street


Personally responsible for getting drunk, personally responsible for falling asleep on the street. Responsible for someone else’s actions? Absolutely not, that person is personally responsible for their own actions.

One eyed Jack

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I’m all for the idea of everyone being held personally responsible for their own actions, but holding anyone responsible for the actions of someone else IS blaming the victim, and absolving the perpetrators of their personal responsibility.

With respect, nothing in my post says that...

Dr. Greenthumb

OP should have called the Gardai and stayed with her until they arrived, I don't think there is any risk in that.

Years ago in Galway after the night clubs dumped everyone out there was a girl passed out having puked on herself on Shoppe St., I wanted to help but my friends were telling me to leave her be. I ended up carrying her up to Eyre Square, got her address out of her and put her in a taxi home. Next day my friends were telling me I was an idiot.

A few years later, drunk as a lord, I fell off a wall and cracked my head open while on my own. A taxi driver found me lying unconscious on the road, he picked me up and brought me to the hospital, had a fractured skull, guy possibly saved my life. That was my payback.

People complain about the loss of community in the country, yet most people are unwilling to help someone in need. So what if she was stupid to get that drunk, at least help her so she can learn from it. I would argue most of us have found ourselves in that situation at least once in our lives.

One eyed Jack

[Deleted User] wrote: »

With respect, nothing in my post says that...

But sure that’s where this whole “personal responsibility” argument comes up - when someone is the victim of someone else’s actions, it’s the victims actions are questioned as though they are responsible for someone else’s actions.

That’s more like the society we’ve always lived in, and still live in. Pointing out that blaming the victim is victim blaming is still incredibly rare in proportion to the amount of times people will look at what the victim was doing that they “got themselves into those circumstances because of their own actions, no personal responsibility, yada yada”, ignoring the fact that it’s the other person’s actions caused the victim to be in those circumstances.

It’s the one awkward reality you won’t hear feminists address in their “myth busting” efforts regarding rape cases - male jurors are more biased towards the victim if they are female, female jurors are more biased against victims if they are female. Juries comprised mostly of men have higher conviction rates than juries comprised mainly of women. This isn’t just seen in Ireland.

One eyed Jack

One eyed Jack wrote: »

But sure that’s where this whole “personal responsibility” argument comes up - when someone is the victim of someone else’s actions, it’s the victims actions are questioned as though they are responsible for someone else’s actions.

What I referred to was personal responsibility. Not shifting any blame away from the aggressor on to the victim.

This is something I've noticed whenever these discussions start. Someone feels the need to shift the attention away from personal responsibility (while acknowledging it's importance), and instead focus on the aggressor (and if there's no aggressor, then introduce one). And then, the references to victim blaming begin, even when the original reference is simply about our own responsibility to watch our surroundings, be careful who we're with, not to get drunk without friends nearby, etc.

Any case, though, I didn't seek to pass any blame from one person to another, so you're heading off on a different tangent than mine.

One eyed Jack

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What I referred to was personal responsibility. Not shifting any blame away from the aggressor on to the victim.

This is something I've noticed whenever these discussions start. Someone feels the need to shift the attention away from personal responsibility (while acknowledging it's importance), and instead focus on the aggressor (and if there's no aggressor, then introduce one). And then, the references to victim blaming begin, even when the original reference is simply about our own responsibility to watch our surroundings, be careful who we're with, not to get drunk without friends nearby, etc.

Any case, though, I didn't seek to pass any blame from one person to another, so you're heading off on a different tangent than mine.

It’s pretty simple to demonstrate by way of example -

Someone’s walking home drunk and they walk into a wall, saying “who put that wall there?” is pretty stupid, they’re personally responsible in those circumstances for their own misfortune.

Someone’s walking home drunk and they get attacked by another person, saying “I’m not responsible for that person choosing to attack me”, is an astute observation.

One eyed Jack

One eyed Jack wrote: »

It’s pretty simple to demonstrate by way of example -

Someone’s walking home drunk and they walk into a wall, saying “who put that wall there?” is pretty stupid, they’re personally responsible in those circumstances for their own misfortune.

Someone’s walking home drunk and they get attacked by another person, saying “I’m not responsible for that person choosing to attack me”, is an astute observation.

Although, they would be responsible for getting drunk and choosing to walk home, as opposed to getting a taxi home instead. They're not to blame for being attacked.

In any case, the original post of the thread, was about whether to help someone who was walking around drunk late at night, or something similar. Where there was no aggressor involved... hence the reference to personal responsibility.