The Leinster Championship is dead.

With talk of Fingal and other areas and hypothetical splits, here's something to consider, with some elements of it being reality and some being just hypothetical too.

The traditional county of Dublin hasn't even existed in legal and administrative terms since 1994. That's an absolute fact.

The Local Government (Dublin) Act of 1993 legislated that from 1st January 1994, the former County Dublin would cease to exist, and in its place would be formed three new administrative counties (Fingal, South Dublin, and Dun Laoghaire/Rathdown) and a borough area of Dublin city.

The traditional "County Dublin" continued to operate in GAA, under the terms of the GAA Rule Book, which sets out structures for County Board, inter-county competitions, etc.

However, the GAA Rule Book doesn't actually define its interpretation of the word "county". And in the absence of an alternative GAA definition, then legal logic suggests that the county boundaries as prescribed in the law of the land should apply in GAA terms too.

So hypothetically, a good barrister could probably put up a good argument along these lines in the High Court, if anybody gave him/her the brief to do so. And it could possibly be ruled that "Dublin" have been operating illegally in inter-county circles since 1994, as no "County Dublin" has actually existed since then.

Could even end up expunging all "Dublin" successes since then, in the same way that all of Lance Armstrong's "victories" in the Tour de France were scrubbed from the record.

Anybody want to do a whiparound for a good barrister?

Uncle Pierre wrote: »

With talk of Fingal and other areas and hypothetical splits, here's something to consider, with some elements of it being reality and some being just hypothetical too.

The traditional county of Dublin hasn't even existed in legal and administrative terms since 1994. That's an absolute fact.

The Local Government (Dublin) Act of 1993 legislated that from 1st January 1994, the former County Dublin would cease to exist, and in its place would be formed three new administrative counties (Fingal, South Dublin, and Dun Laoghaire/Rathdown) and a borough area of Dublin city.

The traditional "County Dublin" continued to operate in GAA, under the terms of the GAA Rule Book, which sets out structures for County Board, inter-county competitions, etc.

However, the GAA Rule Book doesn't actually define its interpretation of the word "county". And in the absence of an alternative GAA definition, then legal logic suggests that the county boundaries as prescribed in the law of the land should apply in GAA terms too.

So hypothetically, a good barrister could probably put up a good argument along these lines in the High Court, if anybody gave him/her the brief to do so. And it could possibly be ruled that "Dublin" have been operating illegally in inter-county circles since 1994, as no "County Dublin" has actually existed since then.

Could even end up expunging all "Dublin" successes since then, in the same way that all of Lance Armstrong's "victories" in the Tour de France were scrubbed from the record.

Anybody want to do a whiparound for a good barrister?

Seems like you're;

jmayo wrote: »

Now to be fair underage soccer in Wicklow is a disaster as well and that would be why your mate's son is playing his soccer in Dublin leagues.
I know of one instance where u16/u17 team travelled the length of the county for match. Both teams had warmed up and togged out for 3 pm kick off, but no sign of ref.
Someone from home club phoned Wicklow League to be told "oh yeah the ref had to cancel this morning and we didn't have replacement".
They couldn't be ar**d to let either club know so one travelled an hour and both wasted their saturday afternoon.

That is the type of shyte Wicklow are at in soccer and in GAA.
Bunch of useless feckless halfwits seem to always end up running stuff in that county and all the hard work the grassroots do is wasted.

That issue with ref is far from a wicklow gaa, GAA, issue. Happens all the tme in all sports. Its happened to me coaching and as a ref in rugby....

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I can't argue with that fair point. Plus as the country lads grow up they end up setting up clubs, or being integral parts to the life of Dublin GAA clubs and the cycle continues Dublin get stronger.

But I was thinking by their proximity to Dublin surely it gives Meath and Kildare advantages as many are dormitory towns and so on.Leading to the big smoke.

Maybe a tweak in the rules in the GAA for Kildare and Meath? Because there must be load of players falling through the cracks GAA wise who come up to Dublin to work and it is too difficult for them to travel home to play for their home club.

Because I believe for any province to be considered a proper competition there should be at least three competitive counties. Otherwise it is a waste of time with either two teams dominating in a duopoly or in Dublin's case one team.
If there is not three competitive counties in each province. They should either be scrapped or reformed.

I would have the main AI as follows:

Donegal, Mayo and Galway as the three in 'Province 1'
Tyrone, Monaghan, Kildare in 'Province 2'
Kerry, Dublin, Cork in another 'Province 3'
Tipp, Meath, Cavan in another 'Province 4'

Each province has a home and away group phase of at least 4 games each

The top two of each group go towards the AI QF's which are knock out. An open draw QF would be ideal and keep the whole thing a bit random.

Based on NFL rating and team performances on a 2/3 year cycle the leagues can be rejigged. No backdoor or any of that craic.

You dont need to scrap the provinces or reform them. Keep provinces as they are but change their role in the all ireland. Main portion of all ireland should be league/group based. Its crazy that all competitions start and are completed before the next really starts. Thayt needs to change.

Enquiring wrote: »

One thing that can't be ignored is that it's not just one area of Dublin GAA that has improved. Their senior footballers have obviously dominated but so have their female counterparts. Also, their underage results have changed dramatically and their club teams. This shows the effect the money has had across the board.

It seems to be gathering huge momentum now. Soon enough the mainstream media will have to start discussing it and splitting Dublin will come into serious consideration. There probably will be a need to have an investigation into the origins of the funding. Was it all above board? Bertie Ahern and Maria Bailey's father were involved. And with the Dublin County Boards refusal to release their accounts, it all seems very murky.

You forgot to mention the Magdalen Laundries, the Mountjoy breakout and Nicky Kelly in your conspiracy.

Fann Linn wrote: »

You forgot to mention the Magdalen Laundries, the Mountjoy breakout and Nicky Kelly in your conspiracy.

Enquiring wrote: »

What conspiracy? Bertie Ahern as Minister for Finance and John Bailey as Dublin County Board chairman met up to put the plan into place way back in the late 90's. The Dublin County Board have also not released their financial accounts.

Right. I thought this was about Leinster football. Didnt think I'd stumbled into the conspiracy thread, but there ye go. Looks like Mayo got a poor return on Enda being taoiseach judging by your line.

Got to go now. Dublin ladies kicking off now. Hoping Berties investment pays off today!!!

Fann Linn wrote: »

Right. I thought this was about Leinster football. Didnt think I'd stumbled into the conspiracy thread, but there ye go. Looks like Mayo got a poor return on Enda being taoiseach judging by your line.

Got to go now. Dublin ladies kicking off now. Hoping Berties investment pays off today!!!

Which is the conspiracy? Bertie and Bailey or Dublin County Board not releasing their accounts?

ShyMets wrote: »

My post was in jest. Splitting Dublin does nothing to solve the overall issues of the GAA.

People point to the Leinster Championship and rightly point out that its a one horse race. They will refer back to the late 90's and early 00's and say look how competitive it was. And they're right but thats the exception. Leinster has been dominated by Dublin and Meath with other teams occasionally challenging.

Whats happening now is one team has had a prolonged series of dominance. This does need to be addressed.

But lets depart from the fallacy that Leinster was always some sort of competitive gem in the Provincial structure

The roll of honour does not back up this point.

The most competitive period was the 17 seasons from 1935 to 1951. Seven different counties won Leinster Championships, Meath five, Laois four, Louth three, Dublin two, Kildare, Wexford and Carlow one each. This is the golden era of competition within Leinster.

1997 to 2005 is the second most competitive period.

Prior to that, only from 1983 was it sown up between Dublin and Meath.

Offaly won three Leinster Championships in each of the 60s, 70s and 80s. Three different counties won in the 70s. Four different counties won in the 1960s: Dublin three, Meath three, Offaly three and Longford one. The 1950s also had four different counties winning, and I've already outlined from 1935 above.

The simple facts are that the periods where two counties dominate are the less common and the Leinster championship had many very competitive periods where numerous different counties managed to get over the line. It really was a competitive gem in the provincial structure.

Enquiring wrote: »

We all know about Bertie's history and the Bailey families dodginess. When you add in the omerta over the Dublin County Board's financial accounts, it's all very murky. It could all be above board but I think it deserves investigation for sure.

Go to your local Garda station with your concerns and see what they say.

Fann Linn wrote: »

The murky business your alleging. Any proof or are you just trying to spin a web?

Again, which part do you not believe?

The strangest thing to happen with Dublins accounts apart from they are kept very much under wraps was when they held a fundraising dinner selling tickets for 2500 euro a table and we’re going to have an auction at it and a big glitzy night. Then when the Dublin accounts leaked on st Sylvester’s website for that year the total amount for fundraising was 59k.

No one asked any questions in our esteemed media of course. Could be completely fine what happened to that money but makes no sense.