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COVID-19: Vaccine/antidote and testing procedures Megathread [Mod Warning - Post #1]

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    #7082
    charlie14
    Registered Users Posts: 14,948 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Fodla wrote: »
    That's what I'm worried about. Will the restrictions ever be lifted? Not a single country in the world has got rid of masks, for example. There's no evidence, therefore, to suggest they'll ever be got rid of. I thought I'd post this in here because the vaccine was said to be the ticket back to normality. Now it seems it isn't. More moving of the goalposts, I fear.


    Why do you appear to believe countries would get rid of masks at this stage ?
    You do realise don`t you that nobody has actually been vaccinated yet and the virus is still running rampant in practically every country.


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    #7083
    Fodla
    Closed Accounts Posts: 281 ✭✭Fodla


    charlie14 wrote: »
    Why do you appear to believe countries would get rid of masks at this stage ?
    You do realise don`t you that nobody has actually been vaccinated yet and the virus is still running rampant in practically every country.

    Because even countries that have dealt with it still have masks. I'm just saying that there's no evidence to suggest that they will ever be got rid of. But that could change.


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    #7084
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,229 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Vaccine trials were run where they're was significant Covid spread. that had to be the case, to create the situation where those injected had a significant chance of encountering the virus in society. Trials wouldn't work otherwise.
    The alternative which is the proposed one getting special authorisation is the, challenge option. This has ethical questionability. You are deliberately introducing the risk of disease in a healthy person.


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    #7085
    hmmm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    Fodla wrote: »
    It was the immediate talk of vaccines complementing the current measures that got me worried.
    Vaccines will take time to kick in once you get them, and they will probably only limit your ability to spread the virus instead of making you completely immune. So someone who gets the vaccine might think they are more protected than they are, and might think they can't pass on the virus when they can.

    Once we have enough people vaccinated I expect restrictions to be lifted as we get more population-wide immunity. There might still be people wearing masks, and people with very poor immune systems might take a few extra precautions, but for most of us life goes back to normal. I read somewhere that Wuhan in China is pretty much back to pre-Covid behaviour.


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    #7086
    Ted_YNWA
    Registered Users Posts: 71,799 ✭✭✭✭Ted_YNWA


    Mod

    Can we try & limit the spillover of mask discussion here. There is a mask thread.


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    #7087
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    NI setting out a very aggressive vaccine strategy. I wish our lot were as open as to our approach. Good news all the same.

    https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/coronavirus-northern-ireland-executive-announces-plan-to-vaccinate-more-than-100000-healthcare-workers-in-three-week-period-39793965.html


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    #7088
    charlie14
    Registered Users Posts: 14,948 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Fodla wrote: »
    Because even countries that have dealt with it still have masks. I'm just saying that there's no evidence to suggest that they will ever be got rid of. But that could change.


    I do not know any country that has "dealt with it" to the extent that they are still not worried about further infections and deaths.
    I don`t see how you would expect them to stop the use of face masks when nobody has been vaccinated yet.


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    #7089
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,229 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Deleted User wrote: »
    NI setting out a very aggressive vaccine strategy. I wish our lot were as open as to our approach. Good news all the same.

    https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/coronavirus-northern-ireland-executive-announces-plan-to-vaccinate-more-than-100000-healthcare-workers-in-three-week-period-39793965.html

    If NI had an aggressive policy to deal with the present problem of positives and deaths, I'd be far more pleased.


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    #7090
    Hmmzis
    Registered Users Posts: 2,004 ✭✭✭Hmmzis


    CruelSummer wrote: »
    In your opinion is that enough to say 95% efficacy despite the fact they’ve behaved as we all are now with social distance & mask wearing? Were these volunteers selected from virus hotspots and jobs where exposure is likely?

    Yes, with a reasonable degree of certainty.
    The preference in all of these trials has gone to healthcare workers, social workers, first responders etc.
    Those people have an inherent risk of getting exposed to the virus, with or without a vaccine trial running. If you give half of them the vaccine and half of them a placebo and tell everyone to behave like they got the placebo (as before the trial) then the difference in rates of infection and disease between the two groups is going to show how effective your vaccine is.


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    #7091
    Fodla
    Closed Accounts Posts: 281 ✭✭Fodla


    Ted_YNWA wrote: »
    Mod

    Can we try & limit the spillover of mask discussion here. There is a mask thread.

    Sure, sorry.


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    #7092
    Fodla
    Closed Accounts Posts: 281 ✭✭Fodla


    charlie14 wrote: »
    I do not know any country that has "dealt with it" to the extent that they are still not worried about further infections and deaths.
    I don`t see how you would expect them to stop the use of face masks when nobody has been vaccinated yet.

    I was thinking of countries like Taiwan and Thailand.

    But instead of focusing on masks, it might be better to talk about going back to normal.


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    #7093
    funnydoggy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,062 ✭✭✭funnydoggy


    Did the vaccine taskforce meet today?

    Craving updates :pac:


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    #7094
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,229 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    The bit of lack of normal means I haven't heard anyone coughing and spluttering with a cold/flu.


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    #7095
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Water John wrote: »
    If NI had an aggressive policy to deal with the present problem of positives and deaths, I'd be far more pleased.

    But this is a vaccine thread.


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    #7096
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    funnydoggy wrote: »
    Did the vaccine taskforce meet today?

    Craving updates :pac:

    Did I hear something about an update on 11 December. Seems a long time away given the speed of developments in this area.


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    #7097
    Roger_007
    Registered Users Posts: 21,886 ✭✭✭✭Roger_007


    Everyone seems to be assuming that all the vaccines that have had apparently successful trials will get approval by the various regulatory bodies. If there are any issues regarding the conduct of trials, they may not. Or they may recommend usage only for certain cohorts of people. For instance they may recommend that a particular vaccine should not be give to pregnant women.
    The regulatory bodies would lose their credibility if any adverse events occur down the road. They are not going to run that risk.


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    #7098
    hmmm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    Interesting post. Krammer btw volunteered for the Pfizer trial.

    https://twitter.com/florian_krammer/status/1332077763809996801


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    #7099
    ixoy
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 17,990 Mod ✭✭✭✭ixoy


    Roger_007 wrote: »
    Everyone seems to be assuming that all the vaccines that have had apparently successful trials will get approval by the various regulatory bodies.
    Exactly. The EMA here would have no intention of approving the vaccines based on what I believe we have so far - which are glorified press releases. They'll do it on the basis of harder data when they have their hands on it, backed with medical expertise that surpasses even the knowledge on this forum!


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    #7100
    Fodla
    Closed Accounts Posts: 281 ✭✭Fodla


    ixoy wrote: »
    Exactly. The EMA here would have no intention of approving the vaccines based on what I believe we have so far - which are glorified press releases. They'll do it on the basis of harder data when they have their hands on it, backed with medical expertise that surpasses even the knowledge on this forum!

    But why then has Bob Redfield said that people will begin to be vaccinated in the second week of December? Hancock said people would be vaccinated in the coming weeks as well.


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    #7101
    timsey tiger
    Registered Users Posts: 1,768 ✭✭✭timsey tiger


    Fodla wrote: »
    But why then has Bob Redfield said that people will begin to be vaccinated in the second week of December? Hancock said people would be vaccinated in the coming weeks as well.

    I assume they have made assumptions.


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    #7102
    ddarcy
    Registered Users Posts: 580 ✭✭✭ddarcy


    Fodla wrote: »
    But why then has Bob Redfield said that people will begin to be vaccinated in the second week of December? Hancock said people would be vaccinated in the coming weeks as well.

    They’re talking a punt it will get approved. The optics so far look to be good. Is highly effective, low incidence of adverse events (sore arms etc) and no incidences of serious adverse events (hospitalisation, etc). So looks to meet the safety and efficacy guidelines.

    I still firmly believe they won’t be out until March for the general population , so that gives 70k+ study entrants 3 more months of data too.


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    #7103
    Roger_007
    Registered Users Posts: 21,886 ✭✭✭✭Roger_007


    It seems that the OxfordAZ trials are not all they were cracked up to be. I just watched an item on BBC Newsnight about the somewhat misreporting of their trial results.
    Apparently the low dose/high dose part of the trial, (where they claimed 90% efficacy), was actually a result of an error in dosage which was not planned. No one over 55 was given that particular dosage regime so their claim of the vaccine giving 90% protection for older people is not proven.


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    #7104
    ShineOn7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,550 ✭✭✭ShineOn7


    Seen on Reddit Ireland
    We really are way behind. The UK plans to start vaccinations in early December. We will announce out plan for distribution on the 11th of December (which mightn't be a problem if we could be sure that the plan will actually be fully complete on that date which let's be honest it won't)


    Has December 11th been confirmed as the date the "plan" is announced?

    There's this too
    Looking at our neighbours, the UK is starting vaccinations next month, Scotland aims to have 20% of its population vaccinated by the end of January, and we just convened our first meeting of the group responsible for vaccinations, like a pensioner at Aldi who only starts looking for her purse after the last item is scanned.

    We are in a situation where Stephen Donnelly, basically a learning difficulty marinated in arrogance, is responsible for the vaccination of almost six million people.

    :pac:


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    #7105
    speckle
    Registered Users Posts: 2,251 ✭✭✭speckle


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    Potentially yes but only with a "Vaccine candidate that has been proven safe in clinical trials could be given to a group of healthy adults in this age range, who are then exposed to the virus in a controlled environment."

    https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(20)30518-X/fulltext

    Maybe I have misinterpreted but I dont think they could have been run in parallel to the trials we are currently discussing.

    nah, I think thats the one I came across. thanks


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    #7106
    speckle
    Registered Users Posts: 2,251 ✭✭✭speckle


    hmmm wrote: »
    Vaccines will take time to kick in once you get them, and they will probably only limit your ability to spread the virus instead of making you completely immune. So someone who gets the vaccine might think they are more protected than they are, and might think they can't pass on the virus when they can.

    Once we have enough people vaccinated I expect restrictions to be lifted as we get more population-wide immunity. There might still be people wearing masks, and people with very poor immune systems might take a few extra precautions, but for most of us life goes back to normal. I read somewhere that Wuhan in China is pretty much back to pre-Covid behaviour.
    Question did they test a subset of the participants even though they dont know who got what or even check afterwards that did they passed the virus on to anyone else that includes anyone on the trial who may have been asymtomatic not just the ones they know who got covid? ie regular pcr or antigen or antibody or tcells. I hope that makes sense?


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    #7107
    Mark1916
    Registered Users Posts: 523 ✭✭✭Mark1916


    https://www.thejournal.ie/uk-government-astrazeneca-vaccine-regulator-5280491-Nov2020/

    UK regulator formally asked by the UK government to assess the Oxford Vaccine, the first step in its approval for distribution.


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    #7108
    Sky King
    Registered Users Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭Sky King


    The UK department of health has said it expects four million doses of the shot to be ready for Britain by the end of the year and 40 million by the end of March 2021.

    That's good going. If they can roll it out at that rate, combined with the other candidates, they'll be more or less sorted by the summer.


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    #7109
    Irish Stones
    Registered Users Posts: 2,307 ✭✭✭Irish Stones


    hmmm wrote: »
    Once we have enough people vaccinated I expect restrictions to be lifted as we get more population-wide immunity. There might still be people wearing masks, and people with very poor immune systems might take a few extra precautions, but for most of us life goes back to normal.


    Does this mean that a real normal as it was before could be never reached?
    I have read somewhere that Bill Gates said that most of our behaviours will be changed forever, and that some precuations like distances and masks will be going on for a long while, along with the lack of confidence in other people.
    If this is true, these vaccines will only do half of the job people would like to see.


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    #7110
    Irish Stones
    Registered Users Posts: 2,307 ✭✭✭Irish Stones


    Fodla wrote: »
    I would hope that anyone faced with being forced to take a vaccine would pack their bags immediately and emigrate. If find the idea of being forced to take a vaccine frightening.


    It might happen that other countries wouldn't let you in because you're not vaccinated.


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    #7111
    Irish Stones
    Registered Users Posts: 2,307 ✭✭✭Irish Stones


    Sky King wrote: »
    Its not like you can get your vaccine and then go licking door handles on your way home, it takes weeks to kick in.


    I think that Fodla wanted to ask if the current measures would ever be completely lifted, even a year later.
    I, like Fodla, think that things might not go back to what they were before this coronavirus.


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