If the world goes completely vegan

Unearthly · 24-11-2020 12:28PM

Tilikum17 wrote: »

100%. Most of the farmers are grand on here

Fully agree. Some good contributions here

24-11-2020 12:43PM

Unearthly wrote: »

Fully agree. Some good contributions here

Do you not find these type of threads totally boring ?

They are usually started with an eye on ‘winning’ an ‘argument’ further down the road. Like a ‘gotcha’ moment - ‘so what would you do with all the animals that are not going to be killed for food ?’ type question that I always hear with a big dumb guffaw.

I can’t imagine the regular forum contributors like these hypothetical threads.

There’s enough real stuff to be talking about without hypothetical questions that always seem to place some burden on Vegans solving unrealistic problems.

Gary kk · 24-11-2020 12:48PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Do you not find these type of threads totally boring ?

They are usually started with an eye on ‘winning’ an ‘argument’ further down the road. Like a ‘gotcha’ moment - ‘so what would you do with all the animals that are not going to be killed for food ?’ type question that I always hear with a big dumb guffaw.

I can’t imagine the regular forum contributors like these hypothetical threads.

There’s enough real stuff to be talking about without hypothetical questions that always seem to place some burden on Vegans solving unrealistic problems.

Oh have a bit fun say we will be living on Mars with earth as zoo, so it matters not what people do.

Markcheese · 24-11-2020 01:34PM

Boring maybe to some , and it may even have been a "gotcha "item at the start ,
I enjoy the debate .. helps understand where others are coming from , and I learn a lot , often just by checking facts on line..
For eg. I was really surprised how much methane is produced in the cultivation of rice ...
I was surprised how vague the methane cycle seems to be ..
I was a bit surprised at how hard it is to nail down and define terms like by-product and how much is used , and I can easily accept that soya meal could be defined as a soya product rather than a soya oil by -product ..

Tar.Aldarion · 24-11-2020 02:38PM

There is room for a lot of types of discussion here and different people will like different things. I'm much more interested in this than say a thread about vitamins, or some people might be really into what others had for dinner and so on. People can post in the thread they like. As long as there is respect between the parties it can be really interesting. It is an actually common question people are confused by as often they may have heard it and not looked into veganism much at all before, and while yes some use it as a "gotcha" it shouldn't diminish the questions of others who are interested in knowing and it can open opportunities to learn about different things. And it is nice to hear from farmers on a range of different things from growing veg, to running sanctuaries to how would Ireland be able to move to more plant based farming in the future? Things like that in general as they have a lot of experience even if you don't agree on everything obviously!

Dizzyblonde · 24-11-2020 03:12PM

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I only think this has been possible because a certain poster has been banned, otherwise forget about it

Mod note:
Taking a shot at a poster who's been banned and can't reply, no matter what your own opinion is of them, is not on.

El Tarangu · 24-11-2020 03:37PM

Jjameson wrote: »

The excess of qaulity ridiculously cheap food has diminished its “ethical” value. I’m not sure that’s the right word but the disregard for the environment and biodiversity , the farmers, the animals themselves is hard to comprehend.
If consumers would pay a little extra for an Irish grown packet of sprouts and buy a bit of locally produced beef from a butcher(tho it’s nearly too late for them)
it would be of more benefit than following extreme diet for all.

The only suggestions I see on this forum mooting the notion of everyone turning vegan seem to come from the meat-advocates, tbh.

Thelonious Monk · 24-11-2020 03:44PM

when you have things like oat milk and the meat substitutes coming out nowadays, it really doesn't feel like an extreme diet at all, especially if you try and watch your weight and avoid certain foods anyway.

Thelonious Monk · 24-11-2020 04:04PM

Jjameson wrote: »

Oat drink would look to be the best of it but the food processing industry marketing is tripping over itself with zeal with a lot of the substitutes. Some woeful crap being sold at an extortionate profits.
I appreciate you aren’t for turning on this and nor am I!

I mean there's far more woeful crap being sold containing animal products out there though, that are hoovered up by the masses. Most of us love a good overly processed bit of food from time to time whether it be a Linda McCartney burger or a Shepherd's pie containing horse!
I mean they sell chicken pieces in packets now beside the prepacked sandwiches in tesco to be eaten like crisps. It just seems so wrong that we have become so distanced from the animal.

Gary kk · 24-11-2020 04:10PM

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I mean there's far more woeful crap being sold containing animal products out there though, that are hoovered up by the masses. Most of us love a good overly processed bit of food from time to time whether it be a Linda McCartney burger or a Shepherd's pie containing horse!
I mean they sell chicken pieces in packets now beside the prepacked sandwiches in tesco to be eaten like crisps. It just seems so wrong that we have become so distanced from the animal.

Hey now you leave the horse meat out of this.

But you are right there is something completely wrong with the food industry on all sides.

Not so sure about distance from the animals.

Ten of Swords · 24-11-2020 04:42PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Do you not find these type of threads totally boring ?

They are usually started with an eye on ‘winning’ an ‘argument’ further down the road. Like a ‘gotcha’ moment - ‘so what would you do with all the animals that are not going to be killed for food ?’ type question that I always hear with a big dumb guffaw.

I can’t imagine the regular forum contributors like these hypothetical threads.

There’s enough real stuff to be talking about without hypothetical questions that always seem to place some burden on Vegans solving unrealistic problems.

I think it's encouraging that posters are debating with each other in a respectful way at this point, considering the thread started out quite fractious it could have easily descended into a screaming match and what good does that do?

Tar.Aldarion · 24-11-2020 04:44PM

Yeah I feel like it would be a good product for us, and it also retails higher than dairy milk around €2.50 per litre. Gluten free oat unit, that's very cool.
It's also open to a lot of entrepreneurial opportunities I think, creating your own brands and so on.

purplesnack · 25-11-2020 12:19PM

El Tarangu wrote: »

Wrong.

This falsehood has been proffered 10 times so far on this thread with zero evidence, and in fact loads of evidence to the contrary suggesting that no, it isn't just convenient, left over soy fed to animals.

"Twenty-six percent of the Planet’s ice-free land is used for livestock grazing
and 33 percent of croplands are used for livestock feed production. "

http://www.fao.org/3/ar591e/ar591e.pdf

Everything that I read seems to say that soy beans are grown for meal, which most of is used for animal feed. Even this United Nations report says that soy is grown for meal and that the oil is secondary (section 1.4).

https://unctad.org/system/files/official-document/INFOCOMM_cp10_SoyaBeans_en.pdf

At the end of the day, the fact of the matter is that the planet it currently trying to sustain 8 billion people and the tens of billions (yes, billions) animals that are slaughtered every year for human consumption. Would it not be more sustainable to sustain just the human population? There would be no need to increase the amount of land that's currently used for crops. There are currently mountains of food discarded because it doesn't conform to a standard - it is perfectly fine but maybe doesn't have quite the right shape. It's absolutely ridiculous. There should be no need for anyone to go hungry (a nod to the poster who seems to think that vegans only think about animals and not starving children). The whole system is fecked up.

Thelonious Monk · 25-11-2020 01:20PM

purplesnack wrote: »

Everything that I read seems to say that soy beans are grown for meal, which most of is used for animal feed

Everything I read too suggests this, but the farmers on boards seem to think otherwise, that animal feed is grown primarily for humans and would be grown even if we were all vegans. It's the problem with the internet sometimes, there's just too much information and you can pick and choose a la carte to prove a point until no one really knows what's real any more.

Unearthly · 25-11-2020 01:28PM

EPA with some bad news about Ireland

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thejournal.ie/climate-change-epa-state-of-the-environment-report-5277733-Nov2020/%3famp=1

Thelonious Monk · 25-11-2020 01:35PM

I saw that, agriculture way out in front as no 1 polluter, and we are still pumping human waste into rivers, it's shocking.
What's even more shocking is commenters on that article trying to blame India and China for our water and air quality, this is the type of absolute dumb f*cks you're up against.

Thelonious Monk · 25-11-2020 08:43PM

Unearthly wrote: »

EPA with some bad news about Ireland

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thejournal.ie/climate-change-epa-state-of-the-environment-report-5277733-Nov2020/%3famp=1

Looks like they aim to make it even worse, yay

https://twitter.com/swanireland/status/1331619129405673477

https://twitter.com/swanireland/status/1331621664287690754

Markcheese · 25-11-2020 09:09PM

The dairy cow numbers have gone up considerably, the suckler cow numbers have come down considerably..
( The catch is dairy tends to be a lot more intensive than suckler cow farming ) ..

El Tarangu · 25-11-2020 09:42PM

Markcheese wrote: »

The dairy cow numbers have gone up considerably, the suckler cow numbers have come down considerably..
( The catch is dairy tends to be a lot more intensive than suckler cow farming ) ..

Oh good - a bumper year for our live exports market.

strobey · 29-11-2020 01:16AM

jaxxx wrote: »

[skip to 4th paragraph if you want to get straight to the point of this thread]

Hello all. First off, I ain't vegan/vegetarian so let's get that outta the way swiftly. There's one thing which I've never seen being discussed, and something I'd love to get an overview on what vegans think about it. I have a huge respect for animals and the natural world, even though yes I'm a meat eater, though not a huge meat eater to be perfectly honest. Anyways I'm not here to discuss that.

Please don't take this as any attack on veganism or anything of the sort. I've seen plenty of people attacking veganism, I even read recently some idiots referring to it as a religion. My head is still sore from how hard I facepalmed myself after reading that drivel. I'm genuinely interested in all your opinions on this.

Let's say tomorrow the entire world goes vegan, just like that. Would it be a good thing if that happened? Honestly, I think it would. God knows we've been doing enough damage to the planet for millennia now, including countless harm towards animals, plants and so on. But the thing I have never seeing being discussed is this:

What happens to all the farm animals? Cows, pigs, chickens, and all the rest. They can't be released into the wild, they're no longer part of the wild ecosystem much like ourselves. If they were released into the wild, in my opinion we'd only be causing even more damage to wildlife. There would be much more pressure on natural food sources for herbivores. If you take cows, pigs and sheep, there are no predators here to control their populations. Young piglets and lambs would be susceptible to birds of prey alright, but adults? The largest terrestrial predator we have is the badger and I'm no wildlife expert but badgers surely wouldn't be able to take down adults, cows especially? There were calls there not too long ago for wolves to be reintroduced into Ireland. I actually think this should be done, absolutely.

If we don't release them into the wild, what then? Cull them all? I don't think anyone wants that. But we cannot release them into the wild, as I said before they haven't been part of the natural ecosystem in centuries. What becomes of them all then? I'm genuinely interested in what anyone has to say about this. I know it's a bit weird, going from humans killing farm animals to how they would be killed in the wild. But we've been playing god for far too long, and have caused untold damage to our planet. Look at the amount of damage that has been caused to the Amazon rainforest because of farming. When I was in school, it was said that there was like 40 football fields worth of forest lost every day. Is it the same today? All this because of farming.

I love animals, I do. And I know that sounds hypocritical seeing as how I eat meat. But I look beyond that, I look at the wider effects on the planet, or I try my best to at least. If the world went completely vegan, what does become of all these farm animals?I really would love to know everyone's opinions on this. Thank you.

It's a ****ing mess alright Jaxxx. Ideally I suppose we'd as a species and society adopt and care for as many of them as we could, unfortunately have to neuter the majority of them, and then give the ones that we have decided to care for as good as possible a life as we could as some kind of not nearly adequate enough reparation for the horrible ****ing generations of abuse. When the populations are small enough, try to find somewhere suitable to repatriate them. It's a real ****ing mess.

Thelonious Monk · 02-12-2020 12:47PM

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/dec/02/no-kill-lab-grown-meat-to-go-on-sale-for-first-time

Cultured fake chicken approved in Singapore. I wonder how long before this kind of stuff will become available in Europe?

Thelonious Monk · 02-12-2020 12:50PM

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Everything I read too suggests this, but the farmers on boards seem to think otherwise, that animal feed is grown primarily for humans and would be grown even if we were all vegans. It's the problem with the internet sometimes, there's just too much information and you can pick and choose a la carte to prove a point until no one really knows what's real any more.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/nov/25/revealed-uk-supermarket-and-fast-food-chicken-linked-to-brazil-deforestation-soy-soya

This is a great investigation and article on how the soy grown in the Amazon is feeding British chickens. I'll point out of course, as we have been vegsplained to already, the soy is grown for human consumption primarily, or something.

El Tarangu · 02-12-2020 01:24PM

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I'll point out of course, as we have been vegsplained to already...

- perfect expression for this; thank you

Thelonious Monk · 02-12-2020 01:28PM

El Tarangu wrote: »

- perfect expression for this; thank you

I think it's a word we might use a lot in this forum

Gary kk · 02-12-2020 02:16PM

https://www.cargill.co.uk/en/liverpool-location

Its crushed for oil it never mentioned that in the article.

Thelonious Monk · 02-12-2020 02:43PM

Gary kk wrote: »

https://www.cargill.co.uk/en/liverpool-location

Its crushed for oil it never mentioned that in the article.

We know. It's all a conspiracy.

ElKavo · 02-12-2020 02:47PM

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/dec/02/no-kill-lab-grown-meat-to-go-on-sale-for-first-time

Cultured fake chicken approved in Singapore. I wonder how long before this kind of stuff will become available in Europe?

With this type of tech it will only get smaller and smaller, faster and faster. Eventually it will become a microwave or oven sized appliance that will create food items quickly and in your home.

Eventually there will be no need for farmed animals. No need for the processes they are subjected to, conditions they are kept in, or slaughter etc. This will be part of the gradual process that I see in moving the world to a "plant based" diet, yet still eating "meat". The "meat" that is grown can be made to be far better for people to eat than animal meat, it could have a higher nutritional value yet remove the bad parts. Any animal farmer with half a brain can see this coming and that is why they do all they can to detract from the choice that so many of us make, by any means necessary.

Gary kk · 02-12-2020 02:58PM

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

We know. It's all a conspiracy.

Yeah it's all a conspiracy I think the farmers a making the supermarket chains sell food for nothing as well. You know so they can get up in the morning and do more work for less.

The point about the oil was it was a big omission from the the article. It never gives a percentage on what it's been used for either.

Who owns the smurf account from Saturday night?

Thelonious Monk · 02-12-2020 03:03PM

Do you think it would all be grown anyway if it wasnt used for animal feed?

Gary kk · 02-12-2020 03:07PM

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Do you think it would all be grown anyway if it wasnt used for animal feed?

I don't really know, would it be swapped out for palm oil. But surly they could of broke down the uses if it was such a groundbreaking investigation.

If the world goes completely vegan

Comments