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Schools closed until February? (part 3)

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Comments

  • #4382
    HerrKuehn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    khalessi wrote: »
    Sounds like it was, but unfortunately there isn't a uniform approach in schools to identifying close contacts or to testing. I think the biggest factor that has kept numbers low so far, apart from handwashing, has been keeping the windows and doors open to encourage ventilation.

    Well it is the HSE who identify who should be tested as close contacts, not the school.


  • #4383
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,462 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    HerrKuehn wrote: »
    As I mentioned earlier in the thread there was a case in my child's class. The child's parents are health care workers. The entire class was tested, off for a couple of weeks and there was no further transmission. They are all back to school now. Seems like it was handled well.

    It was a junior class as well if I remember correct. No pods, no social distancing .


  • #4384
    HerrKuehn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    It was a junior class as well if I remember correct. No pods, no social distancing .

    It is 1st class, so junior, yes. Don't know if they have pods or not.


  • #4385
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,462 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    khalessi wrote: »
    Sounds like it was, but unfortunately there isn't a uniform approach in schools to identifying close contacts or to testing. I think the biggest factor that has kept numbers low so far, apart from handwashing, has been keeping the windows and doors open to encourage ventilation.

    On our staff zoom meeting on Monday the principal told us that the school is coming under severe pressure from a very vocal minority of the parents about how cold the school is. That they want children rotated towards the radiators during the day.


  • #4386
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,462 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    HerrKuehn wrote: »
    It is 1st class, so junior, yes. Don't know if they have pods or not.

    I can tell you they aren't a requirement so probably don't.


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  • #4387
    Thats me
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 639 ✭✭✭Thats me


    CruelSummer wrote: »
    The rich will get richer and the poor will get poorer.

    Thanks, I didn't think this can add much to inequality.


  • #4388
    khalessi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,218 ✭✭✭khalessi


    HerrKuehn wrote: »
    Well it is the HSE who identify who should be tested as close contacts, not the school.

    That doesnt make them right, as has been proven previously when they did not pick close contacts in a class and when the class were tested sinsequenstly, there were 7 more asympotmatic children, which is part of the reason changes were discussed over the midterm, because the HSE are looking at a floorplan not the reality of overcrowded classrooms.


  • #4389
    meeeeh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,612 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    khalessi wrote: »
    That doesnt make them right, as has been proven previously when they did not pick close contacts in a class and when the class were tested sinsequenstly, there were 7 more asympotmatic children, which is part of the reason changes were discussed over the midterm, because the HSE are looking at a floorplan not the reality of overcrowded classrooms.

    You really wouldn't want this decision to be made by teachers. It's the responsibility teachers and schools shouldn't have. Firstly because they are not experts and secondly because there could be very unfair pressure on schools by parents if they were the ones making decisions. Can you imagine if you picked the kids to be tested and then someone else tests positive. It would be you who would have to deal with the hassle from parents. Yes the mistakes are made but at least criticism is aimed at HSE not schools.


  • #4390
    khalessi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,218 ✭✭✭khalessi


    meeeeh wrote: »
    You really wouldn't want this decision to be made by teachers. It's the responsibility teachers and schools shouldn't have. Firstly because they are not experts and secondly because there could be very unfair pressure on schools by parents if they were the ones making decisions. Can you imagine if you picked the kids to be tested and then someone else tests positive. It would be you who would have to deal with the hassle from parents.

    No. but I would like it done correctly.


  • #4391
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,462 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    meeeeh wrote: »
    You really wouldn't want this decision to be made by teachers. It's the responsibility teachers and schools shouldn't have. Firstly because they are not experts and secondly because there could be very unfair pressure on schools by parents if they were the ones making decisions. Can you imagine if you picked the kids to be tested and then someone else tests positive. It would be you who would have to deal with the hassle from parents. Yes the mistakes are made but at least criticism is aimed at HSE not schools.

    Thankfully since the changes the class teacher is to be included in the process. Was a silly situation where the class teacher wasn't included to give their thoughts on how things run in the class.


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  • #4392
    meeeeh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,612 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    Thankfully since the changes the class teacher is to be included in the process. Was a silly situation where the class teacher wasn't included to give their thoughts on how things run in the class.

    Yeah that's fair enough. I think it's probably better if teacher is contacted when contact tracing of the kids is done but otherwise the decision who to test should be done HSE.


  • #4393
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,462 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    meeeeh wrote: »
    Yeah that's fair enough. I think it's probably better if teacher is contacted when contact tracing of the kids is done but otherwise the decision who to test should be done HSE.

    No. They are part of the process now. Not just included after it's all done and dusted.

    They acknowledged that local knowledge is very important when it comes to decisions re close contacts.


  • #4394
    HerrKuehn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    khalessi wrote: »
    That doesnt make them right, as has been proven previously when they did not pick close contacts in a class and when the class were tested sinsequenstly, there were 7 more asympotmatic children, which is part of the reason changes were discussed over the midterm, because the HSE are looking at a floorplan not the reality of overcrowded classrooms.

    Well I would hardly expect them to get it right every time. I suppose when there is a limited resource (the number of daily tests) they have to choose which ones are most likely. I think its telling that you are still going on about that one case where the teacher wanted more kids tested. If this is example that has been used for a month and a half or so, they are obviously doing something right.


  • #4395
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,574 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    HerrKuehn wrote: »
    I suppose when there is a limited resource (the number of daily tests) they have to choose which ones are most likely.

    Nope. We are operating at around just over half our capacity.


  • #4396
    HerrKuehn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    Boggles wrote: »
    Nope. We are operating at around just over half our capacity.

    yes, but we have been at capacity before. The example of the teacher and 7 pupils was a while ago too. I am not sure what the capacity was like then. In the recent example I am familiar with, my child's class, the entire class was tested.


  • #4397
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,574 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    HerrKuehn wrote: »
    yes, but we have been at capacity before. The example of the teacher and 7 pupils was a while ago too. I am not sure what the capacity was like then. In the recent example I am familiar with, my child's class, the entire class was tested.

    That "excuse" of limited capacity is never used for other premises. But I can see why it would be a handy go to when schools were involved.

    I have never heard of an entire class been tested or sent home on the back of one confirmed case. Your principal or teacher must have pushed public health hard for it.


  • #4398
    meeeeh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,612 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    Boggles wrote: »
    That "excuse" of limited capacity is never used for other premises. But I can see why it would be a handy go to when schools were involved.

    I have never heard of an entire class been tested or sent home on the back of one confirmed case. Your principal or teacher must have pushed public health hard for it.
    Actually the 'excuse' used is that positivity rate in schools is already lower than in general society(or it was when I last checked) and there is no point demanding more kids miss 2 weeks of school.


  • #4399
    Glurrl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 53 ✭✭Glurrl


    Boggles wrote: »
    That "excuse" of limited capacity is never used for other premises. But I can see why it would be a handy go to when schools were involved.

    I have never heard of an entire class been tested or sent home on the back of one confirmed case. Your principal or teacher must have pushed public health hard for it.

    Covid-19 testing at meat plants suspended by HSE due to capacity issues

    The Health Service Executive (HSE) has suspended testing for Covid-19 at food and meat processing plants due to capacity issues and increased demand for testing.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-testing-at-meat-plants-suspended-by-hse-due-to-capacity-issues-1.4350947%3fmode=amp


  • #4400
    HerrKuehn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    Boggles wrote: »
    That "excuse" of limited capacity is never used for other premises. But I can see why it would be a handy go to when schools were involved.

    I have never heard of an entire class been tested or sent home on the back of one confirmed case. Your principal or teacher must have pushed public health hard for it.

    Well how many actual cases in school are you familiar with? I don't mean read about it on facebook or whatever. The principal said the response from the HSE was good. I have no reason to think otherwise. Maybe the fact that there is capacity at the moment allowed the whole class to be tested, I don't know.


  • #4401
    Darwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,737 ✭✭✭Darwin


    meeeeh wrote: »
    Actually the 'excuse' used is that positivity rate in schools is already lower than in general society(or it was when I last checked) and there is no point demanding more kids miss 2 weeks of school.

    There was a chart posted last week on one of these threads showing the positivity rates by sector and schools were behind nursing homes and hospitals, but ahead of all other sectors.


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  • #4402
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,574 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    HerrKuehn wrote: »
    Well how many actual cases in school are you familiar with? I don't mean read about it on facebook or whatever. The principal said the response from the HSE was good. I have no reason to think otherwise. Maybe the fact that there is capacity at the moment allowed the whole class to be tested, I don't know.

    Maybe a dozen who have had at least one case, I'm not on facebook or "whatever".

    2 classes sent home and test arranged, both classes had multiple pupils test positive and one teacher, HSE linked them after the fact.


  • #4403
    HerrKuehn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    Boggles wrote: »
    Maybe a dozen who have had at least one case, I'm not on facebook or "whatever".

    2 classes sent home and test arranged, both classes had multiple pupils test positive and one teacher, HSE linked them after the fact.

    How many kids do you have?


  • #4404
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,574 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Glurrl wrote: »
    Covid-19 testing at meat plants suspended by HSE due to capacity issues

    The Health Service Executive (HSE) has suspended testing for Covid-19 at food and meat processing plants due to capacity issues and increased demand for testing.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-testing-at-meat-plants-suspended-by-hse-due-to-capacity-issues-1.4350947%3fmode=amp

    Serial testing Suspended for a few days, which means testing without confirmed cases, everyone got tested eventually.

    It's not a pick and mix like is being suggested for schools when there is a confirmed case..


  • #4405
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,574 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    HerrKuehn wrote: »
    How many kids do you have?

    Not relevant, part of my work is with schools.


  • #4406
    HerrKuehn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    Boggles wrote: »
    Not relevant, part of my work is with schools.

    and the schools are communicating this information to someone who "partly" works with them? Or do you work in the HSE or something?


  • #4407
    Lillyfae
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,859 ✭✭✭Lillyfae


    Darwin wrote: »
    There was a chart posted last week on one of these threads showing the positivity rates by sector and schools were behind nursing homes and hospitals, but ahead of all other sectors.

    What other sectors? The ones that are closed?


  • #4408
    meeeeh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,612 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    Darwin wrote: »
    There was a chart posted last week on one of these threads showing the positivity rates by sector and schools were behind nursing homes and hospitals, but ahead of all other sectors.

    That's not positivity rate. The argument about that was already here on numerous occasions.
    https://www.jhsph.edu/covid-19/articles/covid-19-testing-understanding-the-percent-positive.html


  • #4409
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,574 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    HerrKuehn wrote: »
    and the schools are communicating this information to someone who "partly" works with them? Or do you work in the HSE or something?

    No.

    Listen I have told you what I know from personal experience, I don't really care if you believe or not, I believe your personal experience, I have no reason to doubt you.

    But public health more or less confirmed it a few weeks ago.

    Basically test as little as possible and minimize sending kids home basically because their parents need to be at work.

    The limited resource excuse is nonsense and would not be tolerated in any other sector when a confirmed case is identified.


  • #4410
    HerrKuehn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    Boggles wrote: »
    No.

    Listen I have told you what I know from personal experience, I don't really care if you believe or not, I believe your personal experience, I have no reason to doubt you.

    But public health more or less confirmed it a few weeks ago.

    Basically test as little as possible and minimize sending kids home basically because their parents need to be at work.

    The limited resource excuse is nonsense and would not be tolerated in any other sector when a confirmed case is identified.

    So, if they test too little and miss a lot of cases in school, surely there would be further transmission and much more cases? Or do you think they are hoping that it just goes away?


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  • #4411
    Lillyfae
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,859 ✭✭✭Lillyfae


    Boggles wrote: »
    No.

    Listen I have told you what I know from personal experience, I don't really care if you believe or not, I believe your personal experience, I have no reason to doubt you.

    But public health more or less confirmed it a few weeks ago.

    Basically test as little as possible and minimize sending kids home basically because their parents need to be at work.

    The limited resource excuse is nonsense and would not be tolerated in any other sector when a confirmed case is identified.

    You and others here just don't seem to accept that your personal experience is irrelevant, and your knowledge is limited and of little use in the face of contact tracing, infection control and societal management during a pandemic. Otherwise you would be sitting at the table with NPHET.


This discussion has been closed.
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