Schools closed until February? (part 3)

Lillyfae

Boggles wrote: »

No.

Listen I have told you what I know from personal experience, I don't really care if you believe or not, I believe your personal experience, I have no reason to doubt you.

But public health more or less confirmed it a few weeks ago.

Basically test as little as possible and minimize sending kids home basically because their parents need to be at work.

The limited resource excuse is nonsense and would not be tolerated in any other sector when a confirmed case is identified.

You and others here just don't seem to accept that your personal experience is irrelevant, and your knowledge is limited and of little use in the face of contact tracing, infection control and societal management during a pandemic. Otherwise you would be sitting at the table with NPHET.

Thats me

Darwin wrote: »

There was a chart posted last week on one of these threads showing the positivity rates by sector and schools were behind nursing homes and hospitals, but ahead of all other sectors.

There is numbers of outbreaks per sector: https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/surveillance/covid-19outbreaksclustersinireland/COVID-19%20Weekly%20Outbreak%20Highlights_Web_Week462020_17112020_v.1.0.pdf

khalessi

Lillyfae wrote: »

You and others here just don't seem to accept that your personal experience is irrelevant, and your knowledge is limited and of little use in the face of contact tracing, infection control and societal management during a pandemic. Otherwise you would be sitting at the table with NPHET.

I dont know, I reckon 20 years of infection control and working in hospitals is relevant to preventing cross infection in schools, certainly it was appreciated and helped when I went around each class to teach them the handwashing techniques back in Feb and March definitely more relevant than people with no experience of the school system.

As for teachers, for people with only personal experience they seem to have managed well so far because NPHET are not in the schools ensuring the virus is kept at bay, it is the school staff pushing this everyday, ensuring there is no cross contamination. Regarding personal experience I would think it is certainly more relevant than those who have no experience of Irish schools.

HerrKuehn

khalessi wrote: »

I dont know, I reckon 20 years of infection control and working in hospitals is relevant to preventing cross infection in schools, certainly it was appreciated and helped when I went around each class to teach them the handwashing techniques back in Feb and March definitely more relevant than people with no experience of the school system.

As for teachers, for people with no experience they seem to have managed well so far because NPHET are not in the schools ensuring the virus is kept at bay, it is the school staff pushing this everyday, ensuring there is no cross contamination. Regarding personal experience I would think it is certainly more relevant than those on here commenting who have no experience of Irish schools.

The much maligned HSE have not had any experience managing a viral pandemic on this scale. It is new for everyone. I wouldn't be a huge fan of the health service, in fact I think public services in Ireland are run primarily for the benefit of the staff. When we saw the outbreak in Lombardy, I thought we would be completely overrun here, particularly given the (at least perceived) incompetence of the HSE. It turns out I was wrong and they have performed quite well relative to other countries. They needed to learn as they were going along, that is why some things (rules around masks etc) have changed. School staff have done well too since schools have reopened.

There are a few on here who look for conspiracy theories about lack of testing, post links to random articles about Latvia closing schools, insisted cases would rocket as soon as schools open etc etc.

The schools have been open since September without interruption and with cases currently decreasing. This is something to be proud of I think and not something that every other country has achieved.

Glurrl

khalessi wrote: »

I dont know, I reckon 20 years of infection control and working in hospitals is relevant to preventing cross infection in schools, certainly it was appreciated and helped when I went around each class to teach them the handwashing techniques back in Feb and March definitely more relevant than people with no experience of the school system.

As for teachers, for people with only personal experience they seem to have managed well so far because NPHET are not in the schools ensuring the virus is kept at bay, it is the school staff pushing this everyday, ensuring there is no cross contamination. Regarding personal experience I would think it is certainly more relevant than those who have no experience of Irish schools.

Nphet arent in my work place ensuring the virsus is kept at bay either, should they be?

Lillyfae

khalessi wrote: »

I dont know, I reckon 20 years of infection control and working in hospitals is relevant to preventing cross infection in schools, certainly it was appreciated and helped when I went around each class to teach them the handwashing techniques back in Feb and March definitely more relevant than people with no experience of the school system.

As for teachers, for people with only personal experience they seem to have managed well so far because NPHET are not in the schools ensuring the virus is kept at bay, it is the school staff pushing this everyday, ensuring there is no cross contamination. Regarding personal experience I would think it is certainly more relevant than those who have no experience of Irish schools.

Agreed, I think teachers have done really well. Also agreed that your 20 years of experience would qualify you to teach people to wash their hands, but there are also many, many schools where probably a YouTube video sufficed.

Nice dig there in bold but I have plenty of experience of Irish schools. I'm just not using it to push a narrative not supported by evidence because I am not qualified to do so, nor do I claim to be.

khalessi

Lillyfae wrote: »

Agreed, I think teachers have done really well. Also agreed that your 20 years of experience would qualify you to teach people to wash their hands, but there are also many, many schools where probably a YouTube video sufficed.

Nice dig there in bold but I have plenty of experience of Irish schools. I'm just not using it to push a narrative not supported by evidence because I am not qualified to do so, nor do I claim to be.

Wasnt making any digs about you, you see stuff that isnt there, there are plenty of people apart from yourself who have no experience of schools commenting here. I do more than teach washing of hands and the teachers do more than you think. As I said this has been left to us to promote and see through so comments about personal experience are null and void when it is left to us to run the show. But I am sure you will continue to tell us how to do our jobs.

Lillyfae

khalessi wrote: »

Wasnt making any digs about you, you see stuff that isnt there, there are plenty of people apart from yourself who have no experience of schools commenting here. I do more than teach washing of hands and the teachers do more than you think. As I said this has been left to us to promote and see through so comments about personal experience are null and void when it is left to us to run the show. But I am sure you will continue to tell us how to do our jobs.

Are there no public health posters? Extra funding? Public health and DoES guidelines? School closures by the HSE? Parents informing schools of cases at home? Teachers are doing a fantastic job but are in no way running the show.

khalessi

Lillyfae wrote: »

Are there no public health posters? Extra funding? Public health and DoES guidelines? School closures by the HSE? Parents informing schools of cases at home? Teachers are doing a fantastic job but are in no way running the show.

When it comes toschools it is us running the show daily. We ensure prevention of infection is carried out on a daily baisis but I realise you would never on this thread anyhow give credit where it is due.

khalessi

HerrKuehn wrote: »

The much maligned HSE have not had any experience managing a viral pandemic on this scale. It is new for everyone. I wouldn't be a huge fan of the health service, in fact I think public services in Ireland are run primarily for the benefit of the staff. When we saw the outbreak in Lombardy, I thought we would be completely overrun here, particularly given the (at least perceived) incompetence of the HSE. It turns out I was wrong and they have performed quite well relative to other countries. They needed to learn as they were going along, that is why some things (rules around masks etc) have changed. School staff have done well too since schools have reopened.

There are a few on here who look for conspiracy theories about lack of testing, post links to random articles about Latvia closing schools, insisted cases would rocket as soon as schools open etc etc.

The schools have been open since September without interruption and with cases currently decreasing. This is something to be proud of I think and not something that every other country has achieved.

I think those that are looking for conspiracy theories are actually just worried. Some are teachers and some are parents, who see things happening that are not right. It doesn't help when people say you haven't a clue but yet can see these wrong things happening. It also doesn't help when Public Health Consultant Dr. Abigail Collins actually says yup teachers and parents were right in regards to the whole choosing of close contacts, that they were being very conservative. It leads one to think if they are denying this for weeks and then saying well yeah ye are correct, what else they not mentioning.

I think schools have done a great job so far and school staff should be proud of what they achieved, especially when they have done so with minimal lead in time and done it with grace and cheer ensuring the children have felt safe from the word go.

Boggles

Lillyfae wrote: »

You and others here just don't seem to accept that your personal experience is irrelevant, and your knowledge is limited and of little use in the face of contact tracing, infection control and societal management during a pandemic. Otherwise you would be sitting at the table with NPHET.

Why would I think my personal experience is irrelevant in a discussion I had with another poster where he offered his personal experience? Both were relevant to what we were talking about.

Wait, aren't you living in a different country but you seem to be an expert on what is happening in Ireland or am I mixing you up with someone else?

I suppose we could all muse who is and isn't relevant, and maybe apply a scale.

Glurrl

khalessi wrote: »

I think those that are looking for conspiracy theories are actually just worried. Some are teachers and some are parents, who see things happening that are not right. It doesn't help when people say you haven't a clue but yet can see these wrong things happening. It also doesn't help when Public Health Consultant Dr. Abigail Collins actually says yup teachers and parents were right in regards to the whole choosing of close contacts, that they were being very conservative. It leads one to think if they are denying this for weeks and then saying well yeah ye are correct, what else they not mentioning.

I think schools have done a great job so far and school staff should be proud of what they achieved, especially when they have done so with minimal lead in time and done it with grace and cheer ensuring the children have felt safe from the word go.

Minimal lead time, they had 6 months:pac:

There are work places who had a lead time of overnight. I'd say that's minimal lead time, not 6 months :pac: :pac:

khalessi

Glurrl wrote: »

Minimal lead time, they had 6 months:pac:

There are work places who had a lead time of overnight. I'd say that's minimal lead time, not 6 months :pac: :pac:

Schools were given 3 weeks to get everything up and running, even though the government had 6 months.

Darwin

Surprising at RTE acknowledging schools are third most likely places to record clusters:

https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2020/1125/1180502-school-outbreaks/

Goes on to say the overwhelming majority of cases occur in private households. What does that actually mean? Somebody opened the freezer and got infected by a frozen piece of fish?

Stateofyou

Darwin wrote: »

Surprising at RTE acknowledging schools are third most likely places to record clusters:

https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2020/1125/1180502-school-outbreaks/

Goes on to say the overwhelming majority of cases occur in private households. What does that actually mean? Somebody opened the freezer and got infected by a frozen piece of fish?

Exactly.

Meanwhile Norma Foley is only concerned with exams.

Darwin

Darwin wrote: »

Surprising at RTE acknowledging schools are third most likely places to record clusters:

https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2020/1125/1180502-school-outbreaks/

Goes on to say the overwhelming majority of cases occur in private households. What does that actually mean? Somebody opened the freezer and got infected by a frozen piece of fish?

2.5% of clusters in locations attended by 20% of the population

Blondini

I certainly hope that schools get their own special definition of "cluster" like they get their own special definition of "close contact".

HerrKuehn

Darwin wrote: »

Goes on to say the overwhelming majority of cases occur in private households. What does that actually mean? Somebody opened the freezer and got infected by a frozen piece of fish?

Do you think it might mean that say one of the parents got infected in work and the rest of the household ended up with it? Or maybe someone living in a house share was infected and the rest of the housemates were infected?

Darwin

HerrKuehn wrote: »

Do you think it might mean that say one of the parents got infected in work and the rest of the household ended up with it? Or maybe someone living in a house share was infected and the rest of the housemates were infected?

But we are at level 5 lockdown right? The only place where very large numbers of people are freely mixing is schools. So perhaps an asymptomatic child brought it home from school, but we will never know will we?

Blondini

Darwin wrote: »

But we are at level 5 lockdown right? The only place where very large numbers of people are freely mixing is schools. So perhaps an asymptomatic child brought it home from school, but we will never know will we?

Fake news!

Charts and stats incoming.......

Darwin

Darwin wrote: »

But we are at level 5 lockdown right? The only place where very large numbers of people are freely mixing is schools. So perhaps an asymptomatic child brought it home from school, but we will never know will we?

Numbers are falling steadily, almost as fast as in April/ may

HerrKuehn

Darwin wrote: »

But we are at level 5 lockdown right? The only place where very large numbers of people are freely mixing is schools. So perhaps an asymptomatic child brought it home from school, but we will never know will we?

Listen, your mind and many others on here are already made up. You seem to think it is mainly schools. Actual evidence would suggest it is not. Large numbers are not only freely mixing in schools, they are mixing on south william street for example. Schools have been fully open for months, many predicted cases would go through the roof with schools back, they are actually continuing to drop. There really is no point arguing with you at all. I suppose it is all some conspiracy or something.

HerrKuehn

Blondini wrote: »

Fake news!

Charts and stats incoming.......

yeah, why would someone use actual data rather than anecdote.

Blondini

HerrKuehn wrote: »

yeah, why would someone use actual data rather than anecdote.

What you believe is true, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

HerrKuehn

Blondini wrote: »

What you believe is true, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

I am open to changing my mind if I see a good reason to.

Darwin

HerrKuehn wrote: »

Listen, your mind and many others on here are already made up. You seem to think it is mainly schools. Actual evidence would suggest it is not. Large numbers are not only freely mixing in schools, they are mixing on south william street for example. Schools have been fully open for months, many predicted cases would go through the roof with schools back, they are actually continuing to drop. There really is no point arguing with you at all. I suppose it is all some conspiracy or something.

Actual evidence: the cumulative age covid rate chart per 100K for week 47, from the HPSC, shows the age group 0 to 18 are the largest age cohort of confirmed Covid cases.

deiseindublin

Lillyfae wrote: »

You and others here just don't seem to accept that your personal experience is irrelevant, and your knowledge is limited

Where are you based again?
Maybe you're working in the system?
And how many kids in Irish Education system? :rolleyes:

Darwin

Darwin wrote: »

Actual evidence: the cumulative age covid rate chart per 100K for week 47, from the HPSC, shows the age group 0 to 18 are the largest age cohort of confirmed Covid cases.

Reviewed these numbers. 20% of the population account for 18% of cases in week 47

HerrKuehn

Darwin wrote: »

Actual evidence: the cumulative age covid rate chart per 100K for week 47, from the HPSC, shows the age group 0 to 18 are the largest age cohort of confirmed Covid cases.

0-4 are not in school. In week 47 # of cases

0-4 = 116
5-12 = 218
13-18 = 268
19-24 = 329
25-34 = 401 * (larger range)

So, the 0-4 are not in school. The 5-12 and the 13-18 who are in school have a lower number of cases than the 19-24 who are ... not in the school???

https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/surveillance/epidemiologyofcovid-19inirelandweeklyreports/COVID-19%20Weekly%20Report_%20Week%2047_%20Slidset_HPSC%20-%20Website.pdf

Blondini

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