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England v Ireland Autumn Nations Cup | 21.11.20 KO 15:00 | RTE 1 Read Post #5

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    #1022
    clsmooth
    Registered Users Posts: 3,591 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    glasso wrote: »
    crosskicks compilation defence - I've seen it all now

    Great! You should have a more informed opinion now :)


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    #1023
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    just to show your ridiculousness - youtube compilation battle

    Great catches!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oLXY0mtvts


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    #1024
    Former Former Former
    Registered Users Posts: 5,676 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Keenan should have done better. He put himself in a position where he either made a clean high catch or May walked in unopposed. He needed to arrive a half-second later and make it more of a contest. Winning the ball wasn't necessary, just stop them from getting it.

    I wouldn't slaughter the guy for it but it's hard to see Kearney or even Larmour making that error.


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    #1025
    First Up
    Registered Users Posts: 14,822 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    glasso wrote:
    Nothwthstanding any advantage may had, keenan mistimed his jump by jumping too early.

    He didn't judge the flight of the incoming ball correctly.


    Running back while tracking a ball coming over your shoulder can sometimes lead to mis-timed jumps, not least when competing with a world class winger moving at top speed.

    You can tell us your solution when you are ready.


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    #1026
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,263 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    glasso wrote: »
    just to show your ridiculousness - youtube compilation battle

    Great catches!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oLXY0mtvts

    ah yes


    LOADS of examples of the player running forward onto the ball flight winning the aerial battle

    thanks for proving my point


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    #1027
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    This is how you do it

    https://youtu.be/0oLXY0mtvts?t=96


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    #1028
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,385 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Glasso, do you at least agree that it wasn't a (checks notes) "childish error"?


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    #1029
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    First Up wrote: »
    Running back while tracking a ball coming over your shoulder can sometimes lead to mis-timed jumps, not least when competing with a world class winger moving at top speed.

    You can tell us your solution when you are ready.

    so yes he mis-timed it.


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    #1030
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    aloooof wrote: »
    Glasso, do you at least agree that it wasn't a (checks notes) "childish error"?

    I never said that - different poster - check back

    I wouldn't say something so silly.

    It was an error though.


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    #1031
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,263 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    aloooof wrote: »
    Glasso, do you at least agree that it wasn't a (checks notes) "childish error"?

    to be fair to glasso, it wasnt he who called it a "childish error"


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    #1032
    phog
    Registered Users Posts: 24,050 ✭✭✭✭phog


    I don't know how I feel, did the scoreline flatter us or did we deserve more from the game. We were a bit like Connacht last week we had scoring opportunities but just couldn't cross the line or dot the ball down but then we lost a few set pieces again this week which is disheartening. At times this game reminded me of watching the likes of Munster v Sarries or other powerful teams, we do enough to stay in the game but always needed a bit of luck to try pass them out. It was an awful game for Byrne to have to start but the ball died for us when he got it, they knew he was going to pass it out and were ready to get man and ball.

    One grain of comfort was we had a few players we have with very few caps v a team that was almost full strength and that has to give us hope for the future.


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    #1033
    First Up
    Registered Users Posts: 14,822 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    glasso wrote:
    so yes he mis-timed it.

    Yes, under extenuating circumstances.


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    #1034
    shootermacg
    Registered Users Posts: 4,842 ✭✭✭shootermacg


    glasso wrote: »
    so yes he mis-timed it.

    I'd never blame Keenan for that try. I've seen pretty much every Irish FB and quite a few others getting caught by those.


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    #1035
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,385 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    glasso wrote: »
    I never said that - different poster - check back

    I wouldn't say something so silly.

    It was an error though.
    sydthebeat wrote: »
    to be fair to glasso, it wasnt he who called it a "childish error"

    Yep, didn't mean to imply you did say it, just wanted to see how far apart the opinions were on it.

    My own take is that, if it was an error, I think it's a comparatively minor one in the context of the rest of the day.


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    #1036
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    GIVE NEW GUYS A CHANCE!!!!!

    LOOK AT THAT CHILDISH MISTAKE THE NEW GUY MADE!!!!!!!

    Who'd want to be a pro rugby player, eh?


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    #1037
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    molloyjh wrote: »
    GIVE NEW GUYS A CHANCE!!!!!

    LOOK AT THAT CHILDISH MISTAKE THE NEW GUY MADE!!!!!!!

    Which want to be a pro rugby player, eh?

    I agree, exactly right. The young lads just can't hack it anymore and Ireland need to bring back the old veterans like John Hayes.

    I know that's what you meant so there's no need to reply.


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    #1038
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    aloooof wrote: »
    Yep, didn't mean to imply you did say it, just wanted to see how far apart the opinions were on it.

    My own take is that, if it was an error, I think it's a comparatively minor one in the context of the rest of the day.

    yes I had mentioned the penalty given away beforehand that gave England the opportunity in the first place

    anyway 2 mistakes and Ireland were two tries down in short order

    not unlike earlier in the year in the last game with Sexton's juggler impersonation and Stockdale leaving the ball

    mistakes due to England pressure but nonetheless you're not going to be at the races against a good team like that if you lack basic precision

    Then England didn't even have to push - just play to their strengths and push it out to 3 scores needed for Ireland and run down the clock a bit and game over

    a consolation try and not looking hammered on the scoreboard is scant consolation.

    England never had to push for a big scoreboard - that's even worse imo


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    #1039
    UAEguy2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,098 ✭✭✭UAEguy2020


    It also appears Rob Kearney has never made a mistake in his career...


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    #1040
    First Up
    Registered Users Posts: 14,822 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    glasso wrote:
    just to show your ridiculousness - youtube compilation battle

    Great catches!

    Do you have any that were similar to what Keenan was dealing with?


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    #1041
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    glasso wrote: »
    This is how you do it

    https://youtu.be/0oLXY0mtvts?t=96
    First Up wrote: »
    Do you have any that were similar to what Keenan was dealing with?

    see above - already posted - it was in the video that I originally linked from WC 15

    similar enough to prove the point


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    #1042
    First Up
    Registered Users Posts: 14,822 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    glasso wrote:
    similar enough to prove the point


    All the catches in that clip were made by players running towards a dropping ball. Keenan wasn't.


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    #1043
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    First Up wrote: »
    All the catches in that clip were made by players running towards a dropping ball. Keenan wasn't.

    he mistimed his jump - this has been accepted - he jumped too early

    with an oncoming player also going for the ball you don't plan to catch the ball behind you - that was a misjudgement of timing / flight of the ball

    he needed to be in front of May and either

    1. catch it

    2. be in front of May to put him off / contest for ball so nobody catches it

    3. if May catches it at least be in front of him to block him from cruising in for a try

    it was a difficult situation no doubt but it wasn't dealt with in a way that made if difficult for May

    I'd say at this point let's just accept that and move on


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    #1044
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,298 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    alright time to unfollow


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    #1045
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    lawred2 wrote: »
    alright time to unfollow

    you ledge-bag


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    #1046
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Kraftwerk wrote: »
    The reaction to the loss in the wider social media baffles me. That was a seasoned first string England team in Twickenham. While Ireland have a new head coach, new players/missing key starters, new captain, new style of play (or in the process of changing anyway). And Ireland still didn't get blown away despite not even having a lineout.

    Its also a made up competition to fill the gap of the autumn Internationals. It's a development opportunity. And tbh it was a fantastic experience for everyone involved. If you criticise Bryne for not developing due to having an armchair ride at leinster then you have to allow for the fact that himself and everyone else got a hell of a lot of experience from that game. England put on a defensive masterclass with sharp counter attacking. You don't come up against that often or get the chance to use it as a development game.

    I agree with all of that. We're 3 years out from a World Cup. Better to get these defeats now with a long term view of peaking in 2023. All our great years in Irish rugby have so often coincided with the middle of a world cup cycle. Let's experiment now, try young players, take a few lumps and learn from them.

    I think we should already be planning without Sexton. There was so much talk of him retiring from international rugby in 2015/16 - seems mad to think he's still playing even now. He will not improve by the next world cup. The only way is down. Let's give some young players experience and let the best of them take over.


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    #1047
    theVersatile
    Registered Users Posts: 2,074 ✭✭✭theVersatile


    Keenan was literally running towards the ball as well? As in coming forward onto it? I'm so confused by this argument


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    #1048
    First Up
    Registered Users Posts: 14,822 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    GP wrote:
    England are definitley a bit more "hardnosed" at the moment than Ireland were on the week-end and I don't think they will be pushed around that easily.


    glasso wrote:
    with an oncoming player also going for the ball you don't plan to catch the ball behind you - that was a misjudgement of timing / flight of the ball

    What "planning" could he do? They were both running towards where the ball would drop. May had a better angle on it as it was in front of him. Keenan had it coming over his shoulder. Yes, he mis-timed his jump - for that reason.


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    #1049
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    First Up wrote: »
    What "planning" could he do? They were both running towards where the ball would drop. May had a better angle on it as it was in front of him. Keenan had it coming over his shoulder. Yes, he mis-timed his jump - for that reason.

    time it right and be in front of May, not past May and past the ball

    isn't it obvious from video link that he got that wrong

    he jumped too early. that's why it was behind him.

    what is left to keep discussing this

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCZeq2-g5f0&feature=youtu.be&t=171


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    #1050
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,385 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Dipping my toe back in here after largely avoiding the place over the weekend...
    1. Thought POM and Earls our best performers, closely followed by Doris and Porter.

      Earls' height occasionally gets mentioned as being targeted for kicks, but he wins more than his fair share, and when he doesn't on our kick, he puts real pressure as soon as the defender catches and returns to ground.

    2. Keenan was incredibly secure under the high ball (personally, wouldn't be too harsh on him for the try).

      I did think his kicking was quite poor tho, and he doesn't bring the same level of threat (both attacking and physically) that Stockdale does.

    3. Lowe's kicking also, especially early on, was poor. Thankfully, our poor return kicking in general wasn't that much of an issue, given how much possession we had. Our kicking from half-back needed to be a lot better tho. (And on that note...)

    4. Don't want to be too critical of Byrne; having your first 2 Test starts in Twickenham is as tough as it gets.

      It did seem like for the first 15-20 mins, he (and JGP) were trying a varied kicking game (albeit with average execution, largely due to the England pressure). But from there on out, he seemed to revert to playing too deep and releasing it far too early. He didn't really offer any running threat and telegraphed some of his passing pretty early.

      He did defend well (one brilliant shot on JJ who received a pass off the back of a maul) but if and when he gets another opportunity, he'll need to bring it flatter and release it later.

    5. CJ atypically quiet. Amongst his poorest games I've ever seen him play, I would wager.

    6. James Ryan as well wasn't quite at the pitch of what we've come to expect from him (and hasn't been of late). Part of me feels he was trying to do too much, trying to have a big influential moment that might shift the momentum, and that was as much a cause for his high penalty count as anything.

    7. I hate criticising referee's and TMO's, but 2-3 pretty obvious high tackles around the neck were missed. That's pretty incongruous when the TMO specifically interjected for Roux's fairly innocuous (but correct) penalty.

      Having said that, they did ping 2 players for changing their line when escorting a kick back, which was becoming something of an annoyance.


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    #1051
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,121 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    I didnt think Englands defense was that monumental, we made it tackling practice for them but just running into them, we had no trickery or nous to make them think about anything other than blitz the ball carrier, a few grubbers, chips in behind or even some inside passes to change direction might have opened them up and forced them to hold back a bit, giving the entire backline some room and allowing the pack to have a ruck to run onto rather than "over" to.

    Much rather see a poor performance because we have the next wave of players involved early, these games are largely irrelevant in the big scheme of things, now the 6 Nations is a different challenge...we have to have sorted out tactics by then or we will be undone by England, France and possibly Scotland.


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