England v Ireland Autumn Nations Cup | 21.11.20 KO 15:00 | RTE 1 Read Post #5

mfceiling

lawrencesummers wrote: »

As much as Byrnes ability if attack is being slated we should acknowledge the solid defensive work he did. His tackling was excellent and he answered very well the questions that were asked of him in this regard.

As far as Keenan I think he should be absolutely hammered in the video review for taking the carry that lead to the turnover after Earls made a Break. Keenan shouldn’t have been anywhere near looking for a carry at that instance. He killed our best attacking opportunity in that half.

Jesus man give it up about keenan. You've been able to find fault with the lad every time he takes the field.
If he shīt a gold bar at your feet you'd hand it back and tell him there was a smell of shīte from it.

ElisaAtWar

mfceiling wrote: »

Jesus man give it up about keenan. You've been able to find fault with the lad every time he takes the field.
If he shīt a gold bar at your feet you'd hand it back and tell him there was a smell of shīte from it.

Not every fan can be positive and I know from myself I can be downright repetitive and downright negative at times. At the same time you got to look at a spade and says it a spade. If you don't start from there then the opinion is irrelevant. I hope Andy Farrell learnt a bit from yesterday.

There were not too many positives from the game but if you look at the team it wasn't terrible either. We played england's game and we were beaten and bloodied by it.

And the players cannot be responsible for only providing battering rams to their opposition. That was a coaching call and that's how it played out.

I do believe certain players should not be on this team, but the reality is, if this is Ireland, it's irrelevant who starts.

Ardillaun

Our lads were up against better players in nearly every position (most obviously in the forwards). The result was not a major shock. However, I think we are entitled to expect functional lineouts and a little more invention from the backs. Regarding the half-backs, there will be a painful transition (first with Sexton) from an outstanding duo to players with less potential but we have to get used to it.

lawrencesummers

mfceiling wrote: »

Jesus man give it up about keenan. You've been able to find fault with the lad every time he takes the field.
If he shīt a gold bar at your feet you'd hand it back and tell him there was a smell of shīte from it.

I’ve praised him at times for what he has done, and the relative lack of experience that he has, he has however made errors and if your delicate sensibility can’t handle some constructive criticism of a player then your probably better off not reading a forum that is choc full of opinions on players performances and actions.

ElisaAtWar

Ardillaun wrote: »

Our lads were up against better players in nearly every position .

Maybe we should use better players then?

molloyjh

ElisaAtWar wrote: »

Maybe we should use better players then?

Ah yeah, cos Farrell is selecting lesser players for the craic. We actually have genetics labs available to engineer better players but again we elect not use them for the sheer giggles.

Jesus Christ.....

ElisaAtWar

While I cannot argue that Farrell is selecting players for continuity, he is selecting a game plan that sucks. And it will always suck against England. You know England are going to bring their aggressive game so you stand back in defence and try and ride it. What a hopeless gameplan

mfceiling

lawrencesummers wrote: »

I’ve praised him at times for what he has done, and the relative lack of experience that he has, he has however made errors and if your delicate sensibility can’t handle some constructive criticism of a player then your probably better off not reading a forum that is choc full of opinions on players performances and actions.

Constructive?

You've hammered the lad at every opportunity. There's no constructive criticism with you towards Keenan. There's an agenda there and it's plain to see.

ElisaAtWar

mfceiling wrote: »

Constructive?

You've hammered the lad at every opportunity. There's no constructive criticism with you towards Keenan. There's an agenda there and it's plain to see.

To be fair Jonny May destroyed him. For the first try May just jumped at the right time and Keenan didn't. It was a childish error in the nature of international rugby

ElisaAtWar

I hadn't checked the team sheet for the day so I only found out that CJ was playing when he came off. And just summed up the negative nature of our play. Or we can also accept that the English are better in all facets of the game and we are just muck. Which seems our excuse these days

lawrencesummers

mfceiling wrote: »

Constructive?

You've hammered the lad at every opportunity. There's no constructive criticism with you towards Keenan. There's an agenda there and it's plain to see.

Naw, I’ve just objected to the poster that said he was flawless in his performance, but apparently some people have an agenda that doesn’t allow criticism of their favourite players.

sydthebeat

ElisaAtWar wrote: »

To be fair Jonny May destroyed him. For the first try May just jumped at the right time and Keenan didn't. It was a childish error in the nature of international rugby

First try was no where near Keenan fault.

He's jumping with the flight of the ball rather than into it, as may was. The player jumping towards the flight always had the upper hand. He was left in that position cos Lowe had ended up narrow.

Calling that a "childish error" is quite ignorant of the game

sydthebeat

sydthebeat wrote: »

First try was no where near Keenan fault.

He's jumping with the flight of the ball rather than into it, as may was. The player jumping towards the flight always had the upper hand. He was left in that position cos Lowe had ended up narrow.

Calling that a "childish error" is quite ignorant of the game

Keenan didn't get his jump right though.

mis-timed it and tried to bring his body back towards the ball when he realised that he had got it wrong but was then off-balance and made it easy for May.

if he had timed his jump correctly he could have actually contested for it against May properly and stopped the try

he made a mistake

https://youtu.be/tCZeq2-g5f0?t=171

sydthebeat

Keenan jumping backwards
May jumping forwards

If you don't know the difference in difficulty of both those situations then I suggest you go out and practise them.
Take it from me, they are not the same

sydthebeat

sydthebeat wrote: »

Keenan jumping backwards
May jumping forwards

If you don't know the difference in difficulty of both those situations then I suggest you go out and practise them.
Take it from me, they are not the same

the guy going forward has an advantage yes.

doesn't mean that Keenan didn't mis-time it, which he did.

if he chose a better angle he wouldn't have been jumping backwards also.

Ardillaun

Holy God, just watched Healy outpace Lowe for May's second try. Was Earls still covering Daly on the wing there when May passed by? Some sort of a desperate dive might have looked better.

pickarooney

glasso wrote: »

heard a comment on newstalk that almost an insulting approach to the second half by England. Just kick a couple of penos, put it out to 3 scores required for Ireland - just tackle them until the clock is against them - England didn't even need to push for more scores or worry about possession as they don't need to against Ireland.

Ireland's success in the last 10 to 15 years has always been based around having a solid 10 and a fairly rigid game plan - until that player is found, anointed and THEN developed with enough experience not looking good for being competitive in the 6N, never mind the WC.

Imagine if we changed the plan a little so as not to be completely dependent on having a world class 10?

Japan and Australia make do without one.

sydthebeat

glasso wrote: »

the guy going forward has an advantage yes.

doesn't mean that Keenan didn't mis-time it, which he did.

if he chose a better angle he wouldn't have been jumping backwards also.

Yeah, I guess if he could teleport across the pitch then he could choose what angle to catch the ball from. It's not like the ball kicker has any influence on that decision at all.

lawrencesummers

pickarooney wrote: »

Imagine if we changed the plan a little so as not to be completely dependent on having a world class 10?

Japan and Australia make do without one.

You would think by now we would have learned how to play without a world class 10 alright.

sydthebeat

sydthebeat wrote: »

Yeah, I guess if he could teleport across the pitch then he could choose what angle to catch the ball from. It's not like the ball kicker has any influence on that decision at all.

If you think that he made a good job of that jump you're deluded

sydthebeat

glasso wrote: »

If you think that he made a good job of that jump you're deluded

I said the try wasn't his fault, and picked up another poster on calling it a "childish error"

You seem intent on blaming him for it though, so off you go.....

First Up

glasso wrote:

If you think that he made a good job of that jump you're deluded

I think what was being explained to you is that the circumstances around the cross kick placed Keenan at a considerable disadvantage in jumping for it.

clsmooth

glasso wrote: »

If you think that he made a good job of that jump you're deluded

I’m surprised you’d don’t realise what being stuck between a rock and hard place looks like. But then I guess that helps explain your strange argument. What percentage chance would you give both May and Keenan of winning the ball once it left Farrell’s foot?

Nothwthstanding any advantage may had, keenan mistimed his jump by jumping too early.

He didn't judge the flight of the incoming ball correctly.

As a result the ball was behind him and it was easy for may.

Easy seen in this link

https://youtu.be/tCZeq2-g5f0?t=171

VANG1

Great players make mistakes , give the boys a break. They gave everything out there against one of the worlds best teams. We will be better with the experience. It’s very easy to criticise young players from your sofa. Have you ever played in Twickenham?

VANG1

VANG1 wrote: »

Great players make mistakes , give the boys a break. They gave everything out there against one of the worlds best teams. We will be better with the experience. It’s very easy to criticise young players from your sofa. Have you ever played in Twickenham?

the main point here was posters making out that it's all down to May's advantage - it's not.

Ireland were dominated in the end by a superior team - but the chances of competing with are less if the precision isn't on point.

the penalty leading to England's opportunity was another error beforehand that led to the cross-kick

then obviously a few minutes later the lineout mess led to May creating another chance.

clsmooth

In fairness, I can see glasso’s point but seems a bit much focussing on that moment. The damage was done before and I’m not sure i’d back too many players to reclaim that ball in that position (certainly none available to line up at 15 for us)

sydthebeat

we've seen countless great full backs being beating in the air with crossfield kicks like that.... i just find it very distasteful to call it a childish error and to apportion blame for the try onto keenan when the damage was done inside him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOhlT0LdeCA

crosskicks compilation defence - I've seen it all now

sydthebeat

glasso wrote: »

crosskicks compilation defence - I've seen it all now

yeah, imagine showing other successful crossfield kicks in a discussion about cross field kicks....

mind blowing !!!