Covid 19 Part XXVIII- 71,942 ROI(2,050 deaths) 51,824 NI (983 deaths) (28/11) Read OP

MOR316 wrote: »

I'm travelling to a different county on the 4th. Tough!

Yes and there will be many many more who will ignore that advice as well

The Government and NPHET know this as well

Amirani wrote: »

Public health doctors should absolutely be giving public health messages. It happens in every country.

I don't have faith in politicians to properly relay public health advice. They can stick to deciding on regulations, not being doctors.



He proposed an internal review ahead of an external one (largely to maintain confidence in screening - which has significantly reduced cervical cancer deaths to date). That's not being "against a review". Regardless, it was decided that an external one would be done instead.

You're correct, you do have a short memory (or possibly interpretation difficulties).

No, he didn't.

Harris wanted an external review, Holohan said, "No, don't do that! Go with my report! No one else needs to see what's happening, there's no evidence that it's not up to standard. It says so here in the report I done. Here pick mine"

Peter Flynt wrote: »

What we now get is Holohan throwing all his toys out of the NPHET pram because he wants the country half-open and next to no cases. . . . This ain't gonna happen so he blames sectors of society (young, old) and pits one part of society against another.

That guy is incompetent and needs to resign.

Either do the lockdown properly or don't it at all.

some of us have know that since we realised he tried to bury the cervical check scandal. he is defend the HSE at all costs no matter what the human or economic cost is and the politicians appear to be accepting it.

that people are now ignoring GOV/NPHET advice is now blatantly obvious and no lockdown will work anymore they don't appear to have a plan B (which in my opinion is open up but rigorously enforce mask wearing, shop limits etc etc. mass testing in the health services, schools, factories

People travelling will be gargling mouth wash pre test to make sure they don't test positive and lose their money on flights or get quarantined:pac:

MOR316 wrote: »

No, he didn't.

Harris wanted an external review, Holohan said, "No, don't do that! Go with my report! No one else needs to see what's happening, there's no evidence that it's not up to standard. It says so here in the report I done. Here pick mine"

When did Holohan say that? Any link?

AltGrp0 wrote: »

Thanks for your reply, I have heard the same thing but have been unable to verify, Would you have links to the FOI document by any chance?

I can't find a link but I've attached (bottom of post) a screen shot of the letter - personal details redacted .


Below is the covid committee discussion where it wasn't answered.
I don't know if he ever got back to the chairman.


https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/special_committee_on_covid_19_response/2020-09-29/3/

Chairman

What number of cycles of testing are likely to show that people have had the virus a very long time ago, are not symptomatic and, maybe, not even be shedding anymore? There is also the issue of a margin of error that is part of all tests.


Dr. Colm Henry


Yes. The manufacturer defines the number of cycles that go with the test. We do know because the PCR test picks up on RNA it is possible to find residual RNA after infection has resolved and the person is no longer infectious. We have seen that, and sometimes in some cases, for many weeks after a person ceases to be sick and infectious. One of the perks or problems with the test is that it can pick up on residual RNA weeks after active infection and after the person is no longer infectious.



Chairman


How many cycles are utilised in Irish testing?



Dr. Colm Henry


I cannot answer that but I will come back to the Chairman with an answer.

Covid vaccine trials specifically exclude everyone with serious underlying health conditions.
95% of covid deaths have at least one of these conditions. How the hell can they be declared safe for use?

eagle eye wrote: »

We have plateaued, there's something out there preventing us getting to where we were in July.
We need to figure out we can change to get there. One if the major differences is schools being open.

We actually haven't plateaued. Cases notified have, cases by epi date haven't.

Peter Flynt wrote: »

The Irish are claiming that schools are safer than general society as other countries are either closing schools, admitting that schools open contribute to R value by up to 0.3/0.4 or going online.

In Northern Ireland one school was identified with 48 students with the virus.

But we know different.

We're a corrupt country, that's why.

The evidence is there and is conclusive on schools.
It is been established by experts in other countries. . . and not spoofers like NPHET

None of that supports your conspiracy theory. The fact that some countries are having issues in schools and some countries are choosing to close them, does not logically require that our schools are the same.

No experts in other countries have done a study on schools in the Republic of Ireland and come to the conclusion that they are spreading the virus.

The problem with clinging onto this belief that schools are a problem is that you have prop it up with a whole framework of conspiracies and assumptions.

If schools are a major spreader, but cases are going down, then the only logical conclusion is that cases derived from schools are not being reported.

If cases are not being reported, then one of the following must be true;

- GPs have been told to stop sending school children for tests, or to not report cases in school children
- Contact tracers have been told to not do contact tracing on confirmed cases in school children

Since either of these activities would result in the data popping up elsewhere (high GP referrals, high GP contacts, high swab numbers), you also need teams elsewhere to catch and hide this data to ensure that everything looks above board. Not to mention the fact that we would have hundreds of GP sounding the alarm about it.

So you can see that in order to support your original assertion that schools are a major problem area being covered up, you've had to construct a whole house of cards consisting of sub-conspiracies.

When the conclusion which requires no conspiracies and no assumptions, is that schools are not a major source of transmission.

eagle eye wrote: »

What is that graph? Where did you get it?
14 day cumulative totals?

HPSC, daily report.
"14 day incidence rate of confirmed COVID-19 cases per 100,000 population notified in Ireland by notification* and epidemiological date** to midnight 17/11/2020"
https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/casesinireland/epidemiologyofcovid-19inireland/COVID-19%20Daily%20epidemiology%20report%20(NPHET)_20201119_website.pdf

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Just saw some of the discussion on here from last night.
Could someone explain where the whole public health doctors should be lecturing the public came from?

I'd like to direct those people to the Wikipedia definition of the Chief Medical Officer in Ireland:
The Chief Medical Officer (CMO) (Irish: An Príomh-Oifigeach Míochaine) for the Ireland is the most senior government advisor on health-related matters. It is a government post as the lead medical expert in the Department of Health.

Last time I checked, government advisors don't lecture the public.

I'd be more curious about why the feel the need to do so. Part of the public health messaging is getting public and politicians on side. All along it's always been NPHET advise, government decide. The ultimate decision has always been with government.

Turtwig wrote: »

It's generally very well established that during a crisis you have one expert, whomever that may be, that becomes the public face to that crisis. Too many cooks...
Message needs to be clear, concise and as consistent as reasonably possible. Having everyone and their mother voice their opinions on public broadcasts leads to more confusion and less effective actions by the public.

You have a scientist, yes. Dr Fauci in the US, Dr. Van Tam in the UK.
Not the CMO. Witty in the UK isn't even rolled out some days.

Peter Flynt wrote: »

I'll trust the studies, experts and research done in other countries and not a bunch of paddies lying their arses off in NPHET. . . thanks very much.

Confirmation bias it is.

Keep your fingers in your ears, Peter, that'll work.

If you think the Irish are so incompetent, you know where you can go.