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Pubs when/will they re-open - the Megathread

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Comments

  • #1862
    AssetBacked2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 232 ✭✭AssetBacked2


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    Do they get “Open the pubs” cooks on too? Judging by these threads, it would be difficult to find someone whose pro opening pubs and can string two sentences together, let alone create a cogent argument.

    I really wonder if there’s a connection between the terribly low level of argument and the pubs inability to successfully lobby government around covid.

    There's a link between weird creepy academic and pushing zero covid anyway in the media.


  • #1863
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,131 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    AssetBacked2 wrote: »
    There's a link between weird creepy academic and pushing zero covid anyway in the media.

    Zero covid? What’s that?


  • #1864
    SB71
    Closed Accounts Posts: 297 ✭✭SB71


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    Do they get “Open the pubs” kooks on too? Judging by these threads, it would be difficult to find someone whose pro opening pubs and can string two sentences together, let alone create a cogent argument.

    I really wonder if there’s a connection between the terribly low level of argument and the pubs inability to successfully lobby government around covid.

    Has it ever occured to you that NPHET have effectively used pubs as a scapegoat since the very start, when asked by the vinters association a few months back to produce evidence showing pubs as a cause of a rise in cases, Ronan Glynn suggested they should google "covid" and "pubs" people were gobsmacked at this response.

    So do you believe this is a response which the acting chief medical officer should give, no evidence whatsoever has been produced to show that pubs are a cause of a huge spike in cases, why, because it simply is not true, the same for travel.

    But this doesnt suit NPHETS's narrative, it's all a blame game for them, every day overlord Holohan, a man who loves the limelight loves to come on TV and dicatate to the public , saying they arent doing enough, and to double down their efforts, like a broken record,if it was down to him christmas would be cancelled completely, no flights in or out of the country and we would remain in lock down until late January, or February he can then happily announce when cases are down to a trickle an easing of restrictions ,and enjoy all the praise which comes his way,then 2 months later will call for another lock down as cases rise again, rinse and repeat.


  • #1865
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,131 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    SB71 wrote: »
    Has it ever occured to you that NPHET have effectively used pubs as a scapegoat since the very start, when asked by the vinters association a few months back to produce evidence showing pubs as a cause of a rise in cases, Ronan Glynn suggested they should google "covid" and "pubs" people were gobsmacked at this response.

    So do you believe this is a response which the acting chief medical officer should give, no evidence whatsoever has been produced to show that pubs are a cause of a huge spike in cases, why, because it simply is not true, the same for travel.

    But this doesnt suit NPHETS's narrative, it's all a blame game for them, every day overlord Holohan, a man who loves the limelight loves to come on TV and dicatate to the public , saying they arent doing enough, and to double down their efforts, like a broken record,if it was down to him christmas would be cancelled completely, no flights in or out of the country and we would remain in lock down until late January, or February he can then happily announce when cases are down to a trickle an easing of restrictions ,and enjoy all the praise which comes his way,then 2 months later will call for another lock down as cases rise again, rinse and repeat.

    Just to explore the idea that the pubs are being unfairly singled out: can you mention analogous businesses which have been allowed to continue to operate?

    So what I’m looking for is non essential entertainment businesses who’s business model is to get lots of people into a cosy, intimate setting and sell a drug which lowers inhibitions and has been allowed to operate throughout COVID.

    Concerts would be similar (though not particularly cosy) and they’ve been shut down completely. Comedy clubs the same.

    Restaurants might also be similar. They’ve been allowed to open with pretty tight restrictions but I suppose food is essential in a way.

    What examples can you think of that shows pubs were singled out?


  • #1866
    Suckit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,211 ✭✭✭✭Suckit


    SB71 wrote: »
    Has it ever occured to you that NPHET have effectively used pubs as a scapegoat since the very start, when asked by the vinters association a few months back to produce evidence showing pubs as a cause of a rise in cases, Ronan Glynn suggested they should google "covid" and "pubs" people were gobsmacked at this response.

    So do you believe this is a response which the acting chief medical officer should give, no evidence whatsoever has been produced to show that pubs are a cause of a huge spike in cases, why, because it simply is not true, the same for travel.

    But this doesnt suit NPHETS's narrative, it's all a blame game for them, every day overlord Holohan, a man who loves the limelight loves to come on TV and dicatate to the public , saying they arent doing enough, and to double down their efforts, like a broken record,if it was down to him christmas would be cancelled completely, no flights in or out of the country and we would remain in lock down until late January, or February he can then happily announce when cases are down to a trickle an easing of restrictions ,and enjoy all the praise which comes his way,then 2 months later will call for another lock down as cases rise again, rinse and repeat.


    I'm not sure whether or not you are aware of this or not, so I will go ahead and say it..
    Pubs are not the only businesses that have been closed/affected as a result of this pandemic. They/their flies are the only ones constantly complaining though, seeing as you mention broken records.
    Are all other businesses being used as a scapegoat too?
    Or does that not suit your narrative?


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  • #1867
    SB71
    Closed Accounts Posts: 297 ✭✭SB71


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    Just to explore the idea that the pubs are being unfairly singled out: can you mention analogous businesses which have been allowed to continue to operate?

    So what I’m looking for is non essential entertainment businesses who’s business model is to get lots of people into a cosy, intimate setting and sell a drug which lowers inhibitions and has been allowed to operate throughout COVID.

    Concerts would be similar (though not particularly cosy) and they’ve been shut down completely. Comedy clubs the same.

    Restaurants might also be similar. They’ve been allowed to open with pretty tight restrictions but I suppose food is essential in a way.

    What examples can you think of that shows pubs were singled out?

    I assume your a non drinker,i dont know many people who enjoy a pint who refer to alcohol as a "drug" many restaurants sell alcohol, some cafes sell alcohol, they were all allowed to open, and they allowed pubs to open if they sell a €9 meal and stay for 105 minutes, as if the covid meal is going to prevent someone from catching the virus, as if your safe from the virus up to a certain point.

    Listen your either a supporter of NPHET and the government or completely deluded if you actually believe for one minute that NPHET dont have an agenda against pubs and indeed travel, i asked the question do you think that was a sufficient answer for the chief medical officer to give, and more's to the point where is the evidence to justify keeping pubs closed, if your going to put peoples livelyhoods at risk you'd need to be producing evidence, clearly this hasnt been forthcoming, why, because it's simply not true.


  • #1868
    SB71
    Closed Accounts Posts: 297 ✭✭SB71


    Suckit wrote: »
    I'm not sure whether or not you are aware of this or not, so I will go ahead and say it..
    Pubs are not the only businesses that have been closed/affected as a result of this pandemic. They/their flies are the only ones constantly complaining though, seeing as you mention broken records.
    Are all other businesses being used as a scapegoat too?
    Or does that not suit your narrative?

    Most other businesss opened a few months back, but did pubs that dont sell food open, no they didnt in Dublin, and where is the justiufaction for this, there isnt any whatsover.

    Ireland has had the longest pub closures in all of Europe since this started, NPHET are fixated with the idea that pubs are dangerous places, but have not produced a single shred of evidence to suggest otherwise, i dont think anyone would be complaining if pubs were indeed the cause of a huge spike in canses, but they are not

    Not only this but if people cant go to the pub they will invariably have house partys and this isnt in a controlled environment and will lead to a sharp rise in cases, as we have seen, not to also mention the amount of pubs which have closed for good, so should these people who have lost their jobs just accept whatever NPHET say and suck it up without them producing a shred of evidence?


    Lastly pubs are not the only ones complaining, numerous other sectors are questioning NPHETs outdated draconioan approach to this virus, they should be held to account.


  • #1869
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,131 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    SB71 wrote: »
    I assume your a non drinker,i dont know many people who enjoy a pint who refer to alcohol as a "drug" many restaurants sell alcohol, some cafes sell alcohol, they were all allowed to open, and they allowed pubs to open if they sell a €9 meal and stay for 105 minutes, as if the covid meal is going to prevent someone from catching the virus, as if your safe from the virus up to a certain point.

    Listen your either a supporter of NPHET and the government or completely deluded if you actually believe for one minute that NPHET dont have an agenda against pubs and indeed travel, i asked the question do you think that was a sufficient answer for the chief medical officer to give, and more's to the point where is the evidence to justify keeping pubs closed, if your going to put peoples livelyhoods at risk you'd need to be producing evidence, clearly this hasnt been forthcoming, why, because it's simply not true.

    Your assumption that’s I’m a non drinker is incorrect. Your assertion that I support government is wrong. Maybe I’m deluded and you could demonstrate that by answering the question I asked in the post you quoted, I.E. show the analogous business to pubs, which were allowed to operate during covid. It should be easy since you think I must be deluded if I can’t see the agenda against pubs. So go ahead...


  • #1870
    emo72
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,425 ✭✭✭emo72


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    Your assumption that’s I’m a non drinker is incorrect. Your assertion that I support government is wrong. Maybe I’m deluded and you could demonstrate that by answering the question I asked in the post you quoted, I.E. show the analogous business to pubs, which were allowed to operate during covid. It should be easy since you think I must be deluded if I can’t see the agenda against pubs. So go ahead...


    Could you just be nice and show is the data for spreading covid in pubs? Pretty please?


  • #1871
    dominatinMC
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,153 ✭✭✭dominatinMC


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    Just to explore the idea that the pubs are being unfairly singled out: can you mention analogous businesses which have been allowed to continue to operate?

    So what I’m looking for is non essential entertainment businesses who’s business model is to get lots of people into a cosy, intimate setting and sell a drug which lowers inhibitions and has been allowed to operate throughout COVID.

    Concerts would be similar (though not particularly cosy) and they’ve been shut down completely. Comedy clubs the same.

    Restaurants might also be similar. They’ve been allowed to open with pretty tight restrictions but I suppose food is essential in a way.

    What examples can you think of that shows pubs were singled out?
    Pretty obvious and transparent from the language of your post that you are part of the anti-pub brigade. As you have rightly pointed out, other businesses have indeed suffered but, fortunately, they do not have to contend with the sanctimonious, sneering, and condescending attitudes of people with their own agendas.


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  • #1872
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,131 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    emo72 wrote: »
    Could you just be nice and show is the data for spreading covid in pubs? Pretty please?

    I don’t have that kind of data. I haven’t claim to have that kind of data.

    The difference is that the poster i replied to made the claim that the pubs were unfairly singled out. I asked them for some analogous businesses which were treats differently and they couldn’t provide any so far.

    But they said I’d need to be deluded to jot know the answer so they’ll be along presently to show all the analogous businesses that were treated differently.

    Or else maybe it’s a lot easier to just say pubs are being singled out and treated unfairly than it is to show any evidence. But we’ll wait and see what their reply is.


  • #1873
    SB71
    Closed Accounts Posts: 297 ✭✭SB71


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    Your assumption that’s I’m a non drinker is incorrect. Your assertion that I support government is wrong. Maybe I’m deluded and you could demonstrate that by answering the question I asked in the post you quoted, I.E. show the analogous business to pubs, which were allowed to operate during covid. It should be easy since you think I must be deluded if I can’t see the agenda against pubs. So go ahead...

    Dine in Restaurants, cinemas,to name but two.

    Maybe you can now answer my question -do you believe this was the right response to give to the vinters association from a man holding a postition as high as the chief medical officer, if i was asked a question relating to my job and instead of giving a clear and concise answer if i were to say "google it" i would be reprimanded by my manager and rightly so.

    Do you genuinely believe that NPHET dont have an agenda when it comes to both pubs and travel, they cant blame pubs at the moment as they have been closed now for a long time but they will still do their best to ensure they stay closed, so travel is back on the agenda again, if it was down to NPHET all travel in and out of the country would be stopped for the forseable future,but just like pubs the stats don't lie

    Travel abroad, incl. possible travel abroad 1.41%
    https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/casesinireland/epidemiologyofcovid-19inirelanddailyreportsmarchtonovember/november2020/COVID-19_Daily_epidemiology_report_(NPHET)_20201116%20-%20website.pdf

    But again as previously mentioned this does not suit their narrative, the blame game must go on.


  • #1874
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,131 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    dominatinMC wrote: »
    Pretty obvious and transparent from the language of your post that you are part of the anti-pub brigade. As you have rightly pointed out, other businesses have indeed suffered but, fortunately, they do not have to contend with the sanctimonious, sneering, and condescending attitudes of people with their own agendas.

    Sure. Now, do you have any answers to the question I asked? It should be pretty easy to answer since it’s accepted as pretty obvious that pubs were singled out for unfair treatment. It’ll be no bother to you to answer the question


  • #1875
    dominatinMC
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,153 ✭✭✭dominatinMC


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    Sure. Now, do you have any answers to the question I asked? It should be pretty easy to answer since it’s accepted as pretty obvious that pubs were singled out for unfair treatment. It’ll be no bother to you to answer the question
    Answer what, a fully-loaded question to which there could only be one answer? It was practically a rhetorical question. And for the record, I never said that pubs were signalled-out, I acknowledged that other businesses are suffering too. I was just making the point that, in addition to suffering financial damages, the pubs also have to suffer idiots spouting an anti-alcohol narrative too.


  • #1876
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,131 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    SB71 wrote: »
    Dine in Restaurants, cinemas,to name but two.

    Maybe you can now answer my question -do you believe this was the right response to give to the vinters association from a man holding a postition as high as the chief medical officer, if i was asked a question relating to my job and instead of giving a clear and concise answer if i were to say "google it" i would be reprimanded by my manager and rightly so.

    Do you genuinely believe that NPHET dont have an agenda when it comes to both pubs and travel, they cant blame pubs at the moment as they have been closed now for a long time but they will still do their best to ensure they stay closed, so travel is back on the agenda again, if it was down to NPHET all travel in and out of the country would be stopped for the forseable future,but just like pubs the stats don't lie

    ...

    You named “but two”, one of which I already named for you and mentioned that they primarily sell food which some people deem essential. Alcohol is a secondary thing for them so they had a loophole. Restaurants being part of the apparatus of work and people needing food when they can’t nip home for food.

    Cinemas is a fair shout. They were open for a while between lockdowns. Do they usually sell alcohol now? Genuine question.

    Since you named “but two” and really only one, what other analogous businesses can you point to?

    My answer to your question is no. He should have given a far more detailed answer about how the virus spreads and how indoors, intimate settings are ideal place for the virus to spread. And pubs have a business model around being an indoor, intimate setting which current evidence suggests are the ideal place for the virus to spread.

    I have no opinion on whether there’s an agenda against travel. If need evidence to reach a conclusion. I’ve heard loads and loads and loads of claims about the agenda against pubs and how unfairly singled out, but so far you’ve only come up with two examples of businesses which aren’t really analogous as one primarily sells food (Restaurants) and the other doesn’t usually sell alcohol (cinemas)

    But you’ll have loads of good examples which you could but mention and hopeful they’ll be more analogous to pubs.


  • #1877
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,131 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    dominatinMC wrote: »
    Answer what, a fully-loaded question to which there could only be one answer? It was practically a rhetorical question. And for the record, I never said that pubs were signalled-out, I acknowledged that other businesses are suffering too. I was just making the point that, in addition to suffering financial damages, the pubs also have to suffer idiots spouting an anti-alcohol narrative too.

    It seems a lot easier to offer insults than to offer anything to back up the claim that pubs are being unfairly treated compared to analogous businesses. Calling anyone who doesn’t agree with your position an idiot or anti-alcohol, only weakens your case. If you have good arguments, use them instead.

    I wonder if the difficulty in demonstrating evidence for the claim that pubs are unfairly treated will have any impact on how often it’s thrown around in these threads....


  • #1878
    MelbourneMan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 245 ✭✭MelbourneMan


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    It seems a lot easier to offer insults than to offer anything to back up the claim that pubs are being unfairly treated compared to analogous businesses. Calling anyone who doesn’t agree with your position an idiot or anti-alcohol, only weakens your case. If you have good arguments, use them instead.

    I wonder if the difficulty in demonstrating evidence for the claim that pubs are unfairly treated will have any impact on how often it’s thrown around in these threads....

    This is a fair point. It would appear that those unable to follow the rationale for pub closures all end back at the same erroneous point : 'they must be anti pub', 'Dr. Holohan just hates to see people having fun or 'the anti alcohol lobby is controlling the country'. Or variations thereof.

    The truth is much simple - in the order of priorities to reduce person to person contact and transmission of the virus, while minimising consequences to society and the economy, closing pubs is an eminently sensible choice.


  • #1879
    dominatinMC
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,153 ✭✭✭dominatinMC


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    It seems a lot easier to offer insults than to offer anything to back up the claim that pubs are being unfairly treated compared to analogous businesses. Calling anyone who doesn’t agree with your position an idiot or anti-alcohol, only weakens your case. If you have good arguments, use them instead.

    I wonder if the difficulty in demonstrating evidence for the claim that pubs are unfairly treated will have any impact on how often it’s thrown around in these threads....
    For a man demanding evidence from others, you have provided very little - if any. A previous poster asked you for evidence that Covid is spreading in pubs and your reply was "I don’t have that kind of data. I haven’t claim to have that kind of data".
    To echo your sentiment, I don't have the data, nor do I need it as I didn't claim that pubs are being unfairly treated. I simply take issue with those who express glee in their misfortune.


  • #1880
    emo72
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,425 ✭✭✭emo72


    He has no data. Because there is no data. Acting CMO said "check Google" when he was pulled up on it.

    This. Is. Bull****.


  • #1881
    SB71
    Closed Accounts Posts: 297 ✭✭SB71


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    You named “but two”, one of which I already named for you and mentioned that they primarily sell food which some people deem essential. Alcohol is a secondary thing for them so they had a loophole. Restaurants being part of the apparatus of work and people needing food when they can’t nip home for food.

    Cinemas is a fair shout. They were open for a while between lockdowns. Do they usually sell alcohol now? Genuine question.

    Since you named “but two” and really only one, what other analogous businesses can you point to?

    My answer to your question is no. He should have given a far more detailed answer about how the virus spreads and how indoors, intimate settings are ideal place for the virus to spread. And pubs have a business model around being an indoor, intimate setting which current evidence suggests are the ideal place for the virus to spread.

    I have no opinion on whether there’s an agenda against travel. If need evidence to reach a conclusion. I’ve heard loads and loads and loads of claims about the agenda against pubs and how unfairly singled out, but so far you’ve only come up with two examples of businesses which aren’t really analogous as one primarily sells food (Restaurants) and the other doesn’t usually sell alcohol (cinemas)

    But you’ll have loads of good examples which you could but mention and hopeful they’ll be more analogous to pubs.

    Your being pendantic here , scraping the barrel almost, lets not be fooled here most people cook at home or order a takeaway going to a restaurant is a treat for most people ,food might be essential, going to a restaurant isnt, what about cinemas do you deem that to be essential as well , cinemas too are indoor intimate settings too and an ideal place for the virus to spread,and yes some cinemas do sell alcohol if your going to be pendantic about things which you clearly are, some cafes sell alcohol as well.

    So you agree that Glynn didnt give any sort of rational answer, there's no point in saying "intimate settings are ideal place for the virus to spread" when referring to pubs if evidence is not produced to show that pubs are the cause of a huge spike in cases, that's the key here EVIDENCE, for example do you think if someone is arrested on suspicion of murder, and if it goes to court and insufficient evidence is produced that the judge is going to convict that person, absolutely not,besause there's no evidence.

    Until NPHET can produce evidence to show that pubs are the cause of a spike in cases then they are simply just using pubs and indeed other sectors as a scapegoat to suit their own narrative, people have completely lost faith in them, this wasnt the case for the first few months when we were all in this together, it's anything but now, anyone ive spoken to and just from reading comments online the majority are sick of overlord Holohan and NHPET dictating what they can and cant do with their lifes.

    I've answered every single question you've asked and more , you are firmly in the anti pub brigade so this debate is lost on you.


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  • #1882
    SB71
    Closed Accounts Posts: 297 ✭✭SB71


    MelbourneMan wrote: »
    This is a fair point. It would appear that those unable to follow the rationale for pub closures all end back at the same erroneous point : 'they must be anti pub', 'Dr. Holohan just hates to see people having fun or 'the anti alcohol lobby is controlling the country'. Or variations thereof.

    The truth is much simple - in the order of priorities to reduce person to person contact and transmission of the virus, while minimising consequences to society and the economy, closing pubs is an eminently sensible choice.

    Provide the necessary evidence to back up these claims that pubs are a cause of a spike in cases in this country, im sure the Vinters association and indeed everyone would like to see this instead of coming out with garbage like "closing pubs is an eminently sensible choice" :rolleyes:


  • #1883
    SB71
    Closed Accounts Posts: 297 ✭✭SB71


    Some on here who are masquerading as not being anti pub very much are anti pub,this is abundantly clear , and would be more than happy for them to remain closed indefinitely and for a lock down to continue into the new year, when asked to produce any evidence they cant so they try and deflect on the subject.

    What is now clear to a large percentage is that NPHET have failed miserably in their aprocach to dealing with this virus, outdated, irrational, knee jerk reactions, they will not listen to any other medical experts period, it is their way or nothing, people might have a bit more respect for them if they held their hands up and say we think this approach hasnt worked like we had hoped, and try someting else but hell will freeze over before they would ever consider this.

    I'm actually more afraid of Holohan and NPHET than i am of catching the virus:eek:


  • #1884
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,131 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    dominatinMC wrote: »
    For a man demanding evidence from others, you have provided very little - if any. A previous poster asked you for evidence that Covid is spreading in pubs and your reply was "I don’t have that kind of data. I haven’t claim to have that kind of data".
    To echo your sentiment, I don't have the data, nor do I need it as I didn't claim that pubs are being unfairly treated. I simply take issue with those who express glee in their misfortune.

    Yeah absolutely the burden of proof is on anyone who makes the claim. I didn’t make the claim and I don’t need to provide evidence. If you didn’t make the claim that pubs are being unfairly treated then we’re both not making the claim. We’re in unison.

    You accused me of being an idiot, of having an anti-alcohol agenda and now of expressing glee at pubs misfortune. You’re simple wrong about those things as none of those labels apply to me (well, not the last two anyway).

    I’m just being realistic about the situation that pubs and nightclubs are businesses that revolve around the precise kind of conditions that help spread the virus. Pubs and nightclubs are also non essential businesses. And for that reason they’re closed during the pandemic. That’s really unfortunate, but it’s not a big conspiracy against you or any of us who enjoy the pub under normal circumstances.


  • #1885
    SB71
    Closed Accounts Posts: 297 ✭✭SB71


    https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/health-experts-question-irelands-outdated-covid-19-strategy-1036970.html

    If only we had someone like Professor Jack Lambert as the Chief Medical officer


  • #1886
    AssetBacked2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 232 ✭✭AssetBacked2


    Calling it a "scary virus" is such a pathetic way to describe it by a doctor though;
    Speaking on RTÉ radio’s Today with Claire Byrne show, Prof Lambert said: “This is a scary virus - obviously opening up the country, letting everybody get it is not a solution, this is never what the White Paper has said.”


  • #1887
    SB71
    Closed Accounts Posts: 297 ✭✭SB71


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    Yeah absolutely the burden of proof is on anyone who makes the claim. I didn’t make the claim and I don’t need to provide evidence. If you didn’t make the claim that pubs are being unfairly treated then we’re both not making the claim. We’re in unison.

    You accused me of being an idiot, of having an anti-alcohol agenda and now of expressing glee at pubs misfortune. You’re simple wrong about those things as none of those labels apply to me (well, not the last two anyway).

    I’m just being realistic about the situation that pubs and nightclubs are businesses that revolve around the precise kind of conditions that help spread the virus. Pubs and nightclubs are also non essential businesses. And for that reason they’re closed during the pandemic. That’s really unfortunate, but it’s not a big conspiracy against you or any of us who enjoy the pub under normal circumstances.

    You might not deem pubs as being essential but many do and not just because of drinking either,what about elderly men and women, some of who dont have any family and live alone, their only way to get out and meet anyone is to the local pub which has probably been their local for decades, so these elderly people are deprived of this they sit at home day in day out alone and becoming more and more depressed and wishing their life away, a shocking way to be.

    Majority of pubs have bent over backwards to ensure they are safe and controlled environments with social distancing and sanatizing stations on the premises where people can go to and enjoy their few drinks ,we're not talking music concerts here where everyone is squashed together,it's a nonsensical rubbish argument.


  • #1888
    SB71
    Closed Accounts Posts: 297 ✭✭SB71


    AssetBacked2 wrote: »
    Calling it a "scary virus" is such a pathetic way to describe it by a doctor though;

    it's just a word though let's not get pendantic about things, he is absolutely spot on in his assertion in this article.


  • #1889
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,131 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    SB71 wrote: »
    Your being pendantic here , scraping the barrel almost, lets not be fooled here most people cook at home or order a takeaway going to a restaurant is a treat for most people ,food might be essential, going to a restaurant isnt, what about cinemas do you deem that to be essential as well , cinemas too are indoor intimate settings too and an ideal place for the virus to spread,and yes some cinemas do sell alcohol if your going to be pendantic about things which you clearly are, some cafes sell alcohol as well.

    So you agree that Glynn didnt give any sort of rational answer, there's no point in saying "intimate settings are ideal place for the virus to spread" when referring to pubs if evidence is not produced to show that pubs are the cause of a huge spike in cases, that's the key here EVIDENCE, for example do you think if someone is arrested on suspicion of murder, and if it goes to court and insufficient evidence is produced that the judge is going to convict that person, absolutely not,besause there's no evidence.

    Until NPHET can produce evidence to show that pubs are the cause of a spike in cases then they are simply just using pubs and indeed other sectors as a scapegoat to suit their own narrative, people have completely lost faith in them, this wasnt the case for the first few months when we were all in this together, it's anything but now, anyone ive spoken to and just from reading comments online the majority are sick of overlord Holohan and NHPET dictating what they can and cant do with their lifes.

    I've answered every single question you've asked and more , you are firmly in the anti pub brigade so this debate is lost on you.

    There is point in saying "pubs have a business model around being an indoor, intimate setting which current evidence suggests are the ideal place for the virus to spread" if we're discussing the virus and ideal places for it to spread and whether pubs should open. Note, You quoted me inaccurately in the quote above and I'll thank you not to do that again. It's pretty underhanded and is a sure sign of a poster who doesn't have strong argument - if you had a strong argument you'd make it without amending what I've said and manipulating my quote.

    I didn't know cinemas sold alcohol TBH. I have never gone to the cinema to drink alcohol and I've rarely gone to the pub without drinking alcohol so they're not really the same in terms or selling alcohol. And since the alcohol aspect of the pubs is pretty important, I think it's relevant to the discussion. I think cinemas have more scope to mitigate the risks as they have so much more space and very high ceilings and that's pretty relevant when the problem is a virus which spreads mostly through the air. But you could have thought of that if you'd wanted to, you hardly needed me to point it out, did you?

    Are they the only similar businesses you can think of?

    Also, this talk of the "anti pub brigade" is just childish. I used to love going to the pub as much as anyone under normal circumstances and I miss the pub loads. Anyone who disagrees with you isn't part of the "anti pub brigade". The assumption that anyone who isn't pro opening the pubs is anti-alcohol, non-drinker, anti-fun, enjoying the pubs' misfortune, is just silly.


  • #1890
    SB71
    Closed Accounts Posts: 297 ✭✭SB71


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    There is point in saying "pubs have a business model around being an indoor, intimate setting which current evidence suggests are the ideal place for the virus to spread" if we're discussing the virus and ideal places for it to spread and whether pubs should open. Note, You quoted me inaccurately in the quote above and I'll thank you not to do that again. It's pretty underhanded and is a sure sign of a poster who doesn't have strong argument - if you had a strong argument you'd make it without amending what I've said and manipulating my quote.

    I didn't know cinemas sold alcohol TBH. I have never gone to the cinema to drink alcohol and I've rarely gone to the pub without drinking alcohol so they're not really the same in terms or selling alcohol. And since the alcohol aspect of the pubs is pretty important, I think it's relevant to the discussion. I think cinemas have more scope to mitigate the risks as they have so much more space and very high ceilings and that's pretty relevant when the problem is a virus which spreads mostly through the air. But you could have thought of that if you'd wanted to, you hardly needed me to point it out, did you?

    Are they the only similar businesses you can think of?

    Also, this talk of the "anti pub brigade" is just childish. I used to love going to the pub as much as anyone under normal circumstances and I miss the pub loads. Anyone who disagrees with you isn't part of the "anti pub brigade". The assumption that anyone who isn't pro opening the pubs is anti-alcohol, non-drinker, anti-fun, enjoying the pubs' misfortune, is just silly.

    i had to laugh at this and it needs to be highlighted :eek::D

    I think cinemas have more scope to mitigate the risks as they have so much more space and very high ceilings and that's pretty relevant when the problem is a virus which spreads mostly through the air

    so by your logic a premises with high ceilings and plenty of space might be safer just like a cinema and you dont think there isnt pubs which have high celings and plenty of space , so should we now differentiate between small pubs with low celings and large pubs with high ceilings, jesus christ id quit now mate before you completely dig a hole for yourself,dont be pretending your not anti pub i might have more respect for you if you told the truth.


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  • #1891
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,131 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    SB71 wrote: »
    You might not deem pubs as being essential but many do and not just because of drinking either,what about elderly men and women, some of who dont have any family and live alone, their only way to get out and meet anyone is to the local pub which has probably been their local for decades, so these elderly people are deprived of this they sit at home day in day out alone and becoming more and more depressed and wishing their life away, a shocking way to be.

    ...

    Oh man, the poor old man with the white hair and the flat cap who sits at the end of the bar and sups a few pints and chats with the locals as it's his only social interaction. That fella must be exhausted as he's constantly being trotted-out in these threads for nothing more than to make a point. He's trotted-out more than a Blackpool pony.

    Look, if you're so concerned for the "elderly men and women, some of who don't have any family and live alone, their only way to get out and meet anyone is to the local pub" then what have you done to help them since lockdown? Have you phoned them for a chat? Or have you called around to see if they're in need of anything? Of course you haven't because you're only using them to make the, very weak, case that pubs are essential business. It's a poor argument but it's poor form to use faux concern for a person to make a point.


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