Schools closed until February? (part 3)

Darwin · 16-11-2020 09:48PM

It is absolutely ludicrous they won't even acknowledge that schools may at least be playing a part in the transmission of infections. It's like their initial proclamations about masks (they are not effective), before that point was finally conceded.

Blondini · 16-11-2020 09:56PM

Darwin wrote: »

It is absolutely ludicrous they won't even acknowledge that schools may at least be playing a part in the transmission of infections. It's like their initial proclamations about masks (they are not effective), before that point was finally conceded.

The vast majority of reasonable people grasp and acknowledge that having one fifth of the total population packed indoors must be a major factor in spread.

I don't bother engaging with the blinkered minority at this stage. Waste of time.

jrosen · 16-11-2020 10:26PM

Darwin wrote: »

It is absolutely ludicrous they won't even acknowledge that schools may at least be playing a part in the transmission of infections. It's like their initial proclamations about masks (they are not effective), before that point was finally conceded.

I think the vast majority of people both in government and in the general population accept and acknowledge that schools play a part in the spread.
Transmission happens when people gather and especially when those gathering are indoors. It’s why the schools have implemented measures, keep windows open, use a pod system, one way through corridors, staggered school times.

As for the masks! The discoveries around covid are forever evolving, I believe at one stage there was little to no evidence they were effective which of course we now know not to be the case.

combat14 · 17-11-2020 08:48AM

so obvious from this that schools are the cause

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/it-could-get-much-better-or-much-worse-two-weeks-to-save-christmas-as-covid-cases-rise-39756371.html

Boggles · 17-11-2020 09:16AM

jrosen wrote: »

.
As for the masks! The discoveries around covid are forever evolving, I believe at one stage there was little to no evidence they were effective which of course we now know not to be the case.

Ah. No.

Darwin · 17-11-2020 09:39AM

jrosen wrote: »

I think the vast majority of people both in government and in the general population accept and acknowledge that schools play a part in the spread.
Transmission happens when people gather and especially when those gathering are indoors. It’s why the schools have implemented measures, keep windows open, use a pod system, one way through corridors, staggered school times.

Really? We were told by Michael Martin that special school teams would be sent out after the mid-term break to ensure schools would "remain safe environments".
NHPET have theorised the latest increase in numbers is down to funerals and street parties, but no mention of schools.
Yes schools have done all that provided you take everything you read in the media at face value. My wife is a teacher I know exactly what is going on in her school. The Department have told some schools it is ok to close windows and open them at break times. There are huge problems around contact tracing:
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/is-covid-19-testing-and-tracing-system-for-schools-fit-for-purpose-1.4403817

You can see a multitude of other examples if read back through this thread.

jrosen · 17-11-2020 10:07AM

Boggles wrote: »

Ah. No.

Ah no what? Initially with covid there was no evidence to say masks were effective. That was scientifically stated by numerous medical professionals in the early stages of this. Of course discoveries evolved which is always the case witj science and guidance changed and rightly so.

Boggles · 17-11-2020 10:12AM

jrosen wrote: »

Ah no what? Initially with covid there was no evidence to say masks were effective. That was scientifically stated by numerous medical professionals in the early stages of this. Of course discoveries evolved which is always the case witj science and guidance changed and rightly so.

They lied. For the "greater good".

It isn't our first airborne respiratory pandemic.

6214018_6327.jpg?w=1600

tom1ie · 17-11-2020 11:08AM

jrosen wrote: »

Ah no what? Initially with covid there was no evidence to say masks were effective. That was scientifically stated by numerous medical professionals in the early stages of this. Of course discoveries evolved which is always the case witj science and guidance changed and rightly so.

We were told this so there wouldn't be a shortage of masks for doctors and nurses.
Going on past history, and just basic common sense, it was obvious masks were effective.

meeeeh · 17-11-2020 11:21AM

Actually no. There were conflicting positions. In Slovenia they brought masks in a lot earlier but with caveat that proper research didn't yet support wearing masks but that they think it will help. Ireland was a lot more conservative adopting masks partly because of lack of ppe but the WHO were late with advising use of masks.

Vieira82 · 17-11-2020 11:26AM

tom1ie wrote: »

We were told this so there wouldn't be a shortage of masks for doctors and nurses.
Going on past history, and just basic common sense, it was obvious masks were effective.

that's what Faucci said indeed, but the reality is that there was no evidence at all in March, April a face mask could help prevent the transmission of the virus as it was thought it spread only through surfaces, only later was it proved it does survive in airborne situations and masks could help in the prevention. Only around April May studies started being published proving mas effectiveness... however... keep in mind most masks do not comply with what WHO states as being effective against covid... if you read their instructions they mention at least a three layered fabric mask. Most homemade masks are only one layer for ex...

Boggles · 17-11-2020 11:57AM

Vieira82 wrote: »

that's what Faucci said indeed, but the reality is that there was no evidence at all in March, April a face mask could help prevent the transmission of the virus as it was thought it spread only through surfaces, only later was it proved it does survive in airborne situations and masks could help in the prevention. Only around April May studies started being published proving mas effectiveness... however... keep in mind most masks do not comply with what WHO states as being effective against covid... if you read their instructions they mention at least a three layered fabric mask. Most homemade masks are only one layer for ex...

There was evidence in 1918.

It's not even up for debate anymore, even Trump knew it was airborne in February.

The CDC were asked not to recommend them to avoid shortages.

"The greater Good".

meeeeh · 17-11-2020 12:05PM

Boggles wrote: »

There was evidence in 1918.

It's not even up for debate anymore, even Trump knew it was airborne in February.

The CDC were asked not to recommend them to avoid shortages.

"The greater Good".

Sure who needs to do any Covid research when we can just copy the measures around Spanish Flu. Why bother with vaccine either since we can use flu treatments.

I very much believe in masks, I believed they were effective from beginning but what we believe is not the same to what is proven. The anti science attitudes in this thread are actually embarrassing.

meeeeh · 17-11-2020 12:10PM

<snip>
Actually my understanding is quite fine. People who think like you burned others in the past because it was common sense that earth was centre of universe. Who needs scientific evidence.

Boggles · 17-11-2020 12:10PM

meeeeh wrote: »

Sure who needs to do any Covid research when we can just copy the measures around Spanish Flu. Why bother with vaccine either since we can use flu treatments.

I very much believe in masks, I believed they were effective from beginning but what we believe is not the same to what is proven. The anti science attitudes in this thread are actually embarrassing.

Ahhhhh.

meeeeh · 17-11-2020 12:21PM

Boggles wrote: »

Ahhhhh.

What I believe and what is proven are two completely different things. You conflict what is proven with your beliefs. Which at best means you have very high opinion of your beliefs.

Boggles · 17-11-2020 12:29PM

meeeeh wrote: »

What I believe and what is proven are two completely different things. You conflict what is proven with your beliefs. Which at best means you have very high opinion of your beliefs.

You have a worrying lack of self awareness.

You are complaining about people being "anti science" whilst admitting you were "anti science".

khalessi · 17-11-2020 12:32PM

Are we talking masks? The evidence has been there all along. They are used in hospitals to prevent spread of infection. The only reason they were not recommended in the beginning was that there were not enough for the hospitals.

meeeeh · 17-11-2020 12:35PM

Boggles wrote: »

You have a worrying lack of self awareness.

You are complaining about people being "anti science" whilst admitting you were "anti science".

I'm not anti science. I was very much aware that masks were not proven (yet) st dealing with Covid but I always felt that sometimes it's preferable to act quickly than wait for confirmation. It's a balancing act but that doesn't mean that you can conclude that because masks were used in 1918 they are proven to be useful for Covid.

Boggles · 17-11-2020 12:39PM

meeeeh wrote: »

I'm not anti science. I was very much aware that masks were not proven (yet) st dealing with Covid but I always felt that sometimes it's preferable to act quickly than wait for confirmation. It's a balancing act but that doesn't mean that you can conclude that because masks were used in 1918 they are proven to be useful for Covid.

Jesus, it's like conversing with a wind up toy.

We will leave there, I neither have the patience or time to be dealing with you today.

JimmyVik · 17-11-2020 12:40PM

tom1ie wrote: »

We were told this so there wouldn't be a shortage of masks for doctors and nurses.
Going on past history, and just basic common sense, it was obvious masks were effective.

NPHET are not beyond lying. Thats for sure.
I find it hard to trust anything they say anymore. So much bull from them that defies logic. And the selective info thats given out with huge pressing issues totally ignored by them.

Gaybar · 17-11-2020 12:40PM

meeeeh wrote: »

Sure who needs to do any Covid research when we can just copy the measures around Spanish Flu. Why bother with vaccine either since we can use flu treatments.

...embarrassing.

Like the way you vent intense anger every day here.

Are you a school, is that why you're like a dog with a bone about them?

Not anti science but not pro science either by the looks of it.

meeeeh · 17-11-2020 12:40PM

khalessi wrote: »

Are we talking masks? The evidence has been there all along. They are used in hospitals to prevent spread of infection. The only reason they were not recommended in the beginning was that there were not enough for the hospitals.

No there were also fears about impropriate use, people becoming complacent when wearing masks and so on.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/health-52945210

WHO only recommended masks around 5th of June way after some countries mandated people to wear masks.

meeeeh · 17-11-2020 12:48PM

Gaybar wrote: »

Like the way you vent intense anger every day here.

Are you a school, is that why you're like a dog with a bone about them?

Not anti science but not pro science either by the looks of it.

Why do you think you are entitled to school me as a child? Either reply to my points or ignore me.

Btw isn't interesting that a woman with an opinion is always described as angry.

wirelessdude01 · 17-11-2020 01:58PM

meeeeh wrote: »

Why do you think you are entitled to school me as a child? Either reply to my points or ignore me.

Btw isn't interesting that a woman with an opinion is always described as angry.

Funny, I always assumed you were a man.

MelbourneMan · 17-11-2020 02:04PM

JimmyVik wrote: »

NPHET are not beyond lying. Thats for sure.
I find it hard to trust anything they say anymore. So much bull from them that defies logic. And the selective info thats given out with huge pressing issues totally ignored by them.

That is quite a charge, and unless you can justify your allegation, I call on you to withdraw it.

Would you consider that it is your logic that is flawed, and that the collective members of NPHET are far more like to be correct than yourself? And I pose this question with all respect.

JimmyVik · 17-11-2020 02:11PM

MelbourneMan wrote: »

That is quite a charge, and unless you can justify your allegation, I call on you to withdraw it.

Would you consider that it is your logic that is flawed, and that the collective members of NPHET are far more like to be correct than yourself? And I pose this question with all respect.

I will not withdraw it.
Ask NPHET how many cases there were last week in schools.
See if you can get an answer out of them.
Ask them why is it ok for 30 people to spend every day together in a small room and when one of them gets the virus, the rest arent considered close contacts. Ask them how can that be the case yet less people are allowed in a huge church. Ask them why they flag funerals etc as the source of the virus spreading yet clearly hundreds of thousands of people are sitting closer together every day with more people are not even mentioned as a possible reason.

Go on, ask them. When I see them address it properly in their nightly conferences then i'll withdraw it.

jrosen · 17-11-2020 02:15PM

Im also pretty sure Luke Kelly (think thats his name) stood on either the Claire Byrne Show or Prime Time and stated that there wasnt conclusive evidence that masks were effective in relation to covid19. Was he lying? misleading the public? Or was he stating what he knew based on the evidence he was looking at..

Personally I believe it was the latter.

MelbourneMan · 17-11-2020 02:19PM

JimmyVik wrote: »

I will not withdraw it.
Ask NPHET how many cases there were last week in schools.
See if you can get an answer out of them.
Ask them why is it ok for 30 people to spend every day together in a small room and when one of them gets the virus, the rest arent considered close contacts. Ask them how can that be the case yet less people are allowed in a huge church. Ask them why they flag funerals etc as the source of the virus spreading yet clearly hundreds of thousands of people are sitting closer together every day with more people are not even mentioned as a possible reason.

Go on, ask them. When I see them address it properly in their nightly conferences then i'll withdraw it.

Are you admitting that you make this allegation then, without justifying your grounds to do so, and still expect NPHET to defend themselves of the charge of lying ?

Are you familiar with the definition of the word libel?

eagle eye · 17-11-2020 02:21PM

MelbourneMan wrote:

Are you admitting that you make this allegation then, without justifying your grounds to do so, and still expect NPHET to defend themselves of the charge ?

Are you familiar with the definition of the word libel?

You'd have to be blind not to see the justification in the post you quoted.

Schools closed until February? (part 3)

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