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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Comments

  • #8432
    growleaves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,991 ✭✭✭growleaves


    nofools wrote: »
    Or let's use a common sense heuristic, if it was actually akin to a flu the world wouldn't have stopped.

    You are "working backwards" here logically. The decision to implement lockdowns and restrictions doesn't prove anything about the disease itself.


  • #8433
    Ginger n Lemon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,447 ✭✭✭Ginger n Lemon


    froog wrote: »
    are you serious? you think no lives were saved by the lockdowns?

    get a clue man.

    He is right. It can be safely assumed that all missed cancer diagnosis of hundreds of thousands of people this year will lead to more deaths than what covid was responsible for. (3 months ago figure of missed cancer screenings that has led to cancer development due to lack of services was at 1,600)

    Technically by sitting at home, shutting down most hospital services and allowing empty hospitals to be a thing, we lost more lives than we saved.


  • #8434
    Piehead
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 471 ✭✭Piehead


    alentejo wrote: »
    Absolutely so. What's another few billion! Sure, its only money!!

    Ireland is borrowing at negative rates. The more we borrow the more we save (long term).

    https://www.ntma.ie/news/ireland-sells-750m-of-treasury-bills-by-auction-6


  • #8435
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    froog wrote: »
    are you serious? you think no lives were saved by the lockdowns?

    get a clue man.

    You do realise the people that died with Covid had severe underlying issues and were extremely old right? Right????

    Most were going to die very soon anyways. Hence no real excess mortality.


  • #8436
    nofools
    Closed Accounts Posts: 608 ✭✭✭nofools


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    . You surely don't believe that death can be stopped by CV-19 restrictions do you?

    .

    And you surely don't believe what you just wrote. This is beyond a joke!

    How do you explain?

    Iceland vs Brazil
    Vietnam vs USA
    New Zealand vs Sweden

    Or even Eire vs UK

    You people have spent so long banging the same drum about lockdown leo or something that you lost any grip on the reality all around you.


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  • #8437
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,260 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    nofools wrote: »
    Back in reality, public support is rounding against selfish people costing them their freedom and livelihood.

    You're absolutely right

    Most people are sick to the teeth of the negativity from Holohan and his attempts to dictate policy to the politicians. They're sick of not being able to meet friends or loved ones because of 5km restrictions that there are so many exceptions to that they're pointless, and they're very sick of this condescending shyte that "if you're good we'll let you have Christmas!"

    They're absolutely rounding against those in Government who are keeping their employers or business closed, or causing them untold stress as they worry about the bills or how they'll do Christmas for the kids this year.

    Spot on.


  • #8438
    Ginger n Lemon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,447 ✭✭✭Ginger n Lemon


    Piehead wrote: »
    Ireland is borrowing at negative rates. The more we borrow the more we save (long term).

    https://www.ntma.ie/news/ireland-sells-750m-of-treasury-bills-by-auction-6

    You do realize it has to be repaid right?

    And when its due to be repaid, we ll raise more debt. Except for that "more debt" is unlikely to be at negative rates. Very unlikely.

    This is the definition of young generations paying off debts of ours.

    Unfortunately.


  • #8439
    nofools
    Closed Accounts Posts: 608 ✭✭✭nofools


    Ginger n Lemon wrote: »
    He is right. It can be safely assumed that all missed cancer diagnosis of hundreds of thousands of people this year will lead to more deaths than what covid was responsible for. (3 months ago figure of missed cancer screenings that has led to cancer development due to lack of services was at 1,600)

    Technically by sitting at home, shutting down most hospital services and allowing empty hospitals to be a thing, we lost more lives than we saved.

    Expand your point and prove it. Numbers.

    It is just hyperbole.

    Both my parents got scans recently, what's that about?


  • #8440
    BeefeaterHat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 547 ✭✭✭BeefeaterHat


    nofools wrote: »
    And you surely don't believe what you just wrote. This is beyond a joke!

    How do you explain?

    Iceland vs Brazil
    Vietnam vs USA
    New Zealand vs Sweden

    Or even Eire vs UK

    You people have spent so long banging the same drum about lockdown leo or something that you lost any grip on the reality all around you.

    You're really comparing Iceland and Brazil? And I thought your pseudo dictatorial 'youre with us or against us' comments were mad


  • #8441
    nofools
    Closed Accounts Posts: 608 ✭✭✭nofools


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    You're absolutely right

    Most people are sick to the teeth of the negativity from Holohan and his attempts to dictate policy to the politicians. They're sick of not being able to meet friends or loved ones because of 5km restrictions that there are so many exceptions to that they're pointless, and they're very sick of this condescending shyte that "if you're good we'll let you have Christmas!"

    They're absolutely rounding against those in Government who are keeping their employers or business closed, or causing them untold stress as they worry about the bills or how they'll do Christmas for the kids this year.

    Spot on.

    Top marks for deflection

    Zero marks for being abjectly wrong about it all.


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  • #8442
    nofools
    Closed Accounts Posts: 608 ✭✭✭nofools


    BeefeaterHat wrote: »
    You're really comparing Iceland and Brazil? And I thought your pseudo dictatorial 'youre with us or against us' comments were mad

    Do you understand why I mentioned them or what point are you trying to make?


  • #8443
    froog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭froog


    Ginger n Lemon wrote: »
    He is right. It can be safely assumed that all missed cancer diagnosis of hundreds of thousands of people this year will lead to more deaths than what covid was responsible for. (3 months ago figure of missed cancer screenings that has led to cancer development due to lack of services was at 1,600)

    Technically by sitting at home, shutting down most hospital services and allowing empty hospitals to be a thing, we lost more lives than we saved.

    utter lies.


  • #8444
    zerosugarbuzz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭zerosugarbuzz


    There were 31,134 deaths registered in 2019 in Ireland. It will be interesting to see what the uplift is this year.
    This whole Covid thing should only be about the deaths, I couldn't care less myself if I have had or get Covid if I have little or no symptoms.


  • #8445
    nofools
    Closed Accounts Posts: 608 ✭✭✭nofools


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    .

    Sweden are also proof that lockdown achieved f*ck all.


    How is that? I think you have that very confused


  • #8446
    Ginger n Lemon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,447 ✭✭✭Ginger n Lemon


    nofools wrote: »
    Expand your point and prove it. Numbers.

    It is just hyperbole.

    Both my parents got scans recently, what's that about?

    Excellent sampling that in bold.

    Read below.

    Maresa Fagan: Knock-on effect of Covid-19 leaves cancer test backlog
    Thousands left waiting for services after screening was suspended in March, writes Maresa Fagan

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/commentanalysis/arid-40077539.html

    In case you have doubts, cancer mortality rates are much higher than covid.


  • #8447
    Ginger n Lemon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,447 ✭✭✭Ginger n Lemon


    nofools wrote: »
    And you surely don't believe what you just wrote. This is beyond a joke!

    How do you explain?

    Iceland vs Brazil
    Vietnam vs USA
    New Zealand vs Sweden

    Or even Eire vs UK

    You people have spent so long banging the same drum about lockdown leo or something that you lost any grip on the reality all around you.

    :D:D:D


  • #8448
    BeefeaterHat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 547 ✭✭✭BeefeaterHat


    nofools wrote: »
    Do you understand why I mentioned them or what point are you trying to make?

    Enlighten me why we're comparing Iceland with 350,000 people to Brazil with 210 million people ? That's utterly ridiculous whatever point you think you're making


  • #8449
    nofools
    Closed Accounts Posts: 608 ✭✭✭nofools


    growleaves wrote: »
    You are "working backwards" here logically. The decision to implement lockdowns and restrictions doesn't prove anything about the disease itself.

    I can work it backwards and forwards, you are still wrong.

    The leadership and their teams of experts of every virtually nation disagree with you...why do you think that is oh wise one?


  • #8450
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,066 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    froog wrote: »
    utter lies.

    You don't know this.

    There-in lies the problem, the real impact of lockdown will not be known for some time. We can be certain lockdown reduced covid deaths, but we don't know what impact it had on deaths in other areas. We will have to analyse the death rate over time compared to previous years.


  • #8451
    nofools
    Closed Accounts Posts: 608 ✭✭✭nofools


    awec wrote: »
    You don't know this.

    With 99.5% confidence he or she is right.


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  • #8452
    BeefeaterHat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 547 ✭✭✭BeefeaterHat


    Ginger n Lemon wrote: »
    :D:D:D

    Imagine a country with almost the same population as Cork city had less deaths than one of the most populous and densely populated nations on Earth. Unfathomable


  • #8453
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,066 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    nofools wrote: »
    With 99.5% confidence he or she is right.

    If the only thing you care about is covid, sure.

    If you are talking bigger picture, then you don't know this. Nobody does.


  • #8454
    froog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭froog


    awec wrote: »
    You don't know this.

    There-in lies the problem, the real impact of lockdown will not be known for some time. We can be certain lockdown reduced covid deaths, but we don't know what impact it had on deaths in other areas. We will have to analyse the death rate over time compared to previous years.

    and that poster doesn't know this:

    "It can be safely assumed that all missed cancer diagnosis of hundreds of thousands of people this year will lead to more deaths than what covid was responsible for"


  • #8455
    nofools
    Closed Accounts Posts: 608 ✭✭✭nofools


    Ginger n Lemon wrote: »
    Excellent sampling that in bold.

    Read below.

    Maresa Fagan: Knock-on effect of Covid-19 leaves cancer test backlog
    Thousands left waiting for services after screening was suspended in March, writes Maresa Fagan

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/commentanalysis/arid-40077539.html

    In case you have doubts, cancer mortality rates are much higher than covid.


    The fact that they got scans points that the problem might not exist as you have presented. OBVIOUSLY


  • #8456
    nofools
    Closed Accounts Posts: 608 ✭✭✭nofools


    awec wrote: »
    If the only thing you care about is covid, sure.

    If you are talking bigger picture, then you don't know this. Nobody does.

    I got mixed up about the subject in question sorry. You are correct, we simply don't know.

    We can make educated guesses though.

    However, I haven't seen a single derivation for the more cancer deaths than covid argument. If i did see a convincing analysis I would naturally change my mind.

    I have asked for it a few times now. At this stage it is "safely assumed" supposition plucked out of the air.


  • #8457
    Ginger n Lemon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,447 ✭✭✭Ginger n Lemon


    nofools wrote: »
    The fact that they got scans points that the problem might not exist as you have presented. OBVIOUSLY

    Listen - you are just posting rubbish now. Your parents getting a scan recently does not mean that rest of the country got their scans done on time, or done at all.

    There are huge waiting lists per below

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/commentanalysis/arid-40077539.html

    Stop being so ignorant at least for once.


  • #8458
    nofools
    Closed Accounts Posts: 608 ✭✭✭nofools


    BeefeaterHat wrote: »
    Imagine a country with almost the same population as Cork city had less deaths than one of the most populous and densely populated nations on Earth. Unfathomable

    Equally unfathomable is how you don't realise there are deaths per capita metrics.


  • #8459
    nofools
    Closed Accounts Posts: 608 ✭✭✭nofools


    Ginger n Lemon wrote: »
    Listen - you are just posting rubbish now. Your parents getting a scan recently does not mean that rest of the country got their scans done on time, or done at all.

    There are huge waiting lists per below

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/commentanalysis/arid-40077539.html

    Stop being so ignorant at least for once.

    Yes again obviously i know that.

    I am pushing for someone to present the case in a logical way.


  • #8460
    growleaves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,991 ✭✭✭growleaves


    nofools wrote: »
    I can work it backwards and forwards, you are still wrong.

    The leadership and their teams of experts of every virtually nation disagree with you...why do you think that is oh wise one?

    'Consensus' isn't an argument.

    If the Prime Minister of Italy had made a different decision in March then maybe all of the 27 EU countries would have all made a different decision.

    There were scientists arguing against lockdowns from the offing such as Oxford University's Infectious Diseases Lab and others but mass media outlets like the Guardian and the Financial Times "informed" people that they were wrong.

    If the WHO chief's statement today that a vaccine will not end the restrictions but only be a "complement" to them becomes the official position of nations and experts then the ONLY way out of permanent lockdown will be for the mass of people to overrule them (peacefully, I would add).


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  • #8461
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,154 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Those deaths are way overstated.
    Excess mortality will show a tiny death rate.

    It will be nothing to do with lockdown either.
    Keep it out of nursing homes and almost no deaths at all.

    Sweden are also proof that lockdown achieved f*ck all.

    We certainly would have never had the 250K deaths that Mr Varadkar mentioned.

    What has Sweden achieved that we haven't achieved?

    Can you provide the relevant data in this regard?


This discussion has been closed.
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