Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

_Kaiser_

IT and Indo now both saying that takeaway pints will be banned for the remainder of this current lockdown

Allinall

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Thats brilliant.

On a more serious note, 99% + getting PUP are NOT millionaires. Could you please address my point as to how is it moral to tax a payment that only occurs exclusively as a result of government's actions?

Just to note to poster above - 208 or 350 or up to 350, in all 3 scenarios it will be liable to USC PRSI etc. Hence I call it immoral.

Also a bit stupid. Why tax sucha small sum? Are our coffers really that empty?

It's moral because we have set an income limit over which everyone pays tax.

why should some people earn more than that limit and not pay tax, and others are subject to tax?

Would that not be immoral?

Stormyteacup

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Thats brilliant.

On a more serious note, 99% + getting PUP are NOT millionaires. Could you please address my point as to how is it moral to tax a payment that only occurs exclusively as a result of government's actions?

Just to note to poster above - 208 or 350 or up to 350, in all 3 scenarios it will be liable to USC PRSI etc. Hence I call it immoral.

Also a bit stupid. Why tax sucha small sum? Are our coffers really that empty?

More kicking the can down the road anyway. Cut the PUP/tax it for the past few months. It’s only going to manifest itself in increased rent allowance applications social housing applications and other welfare payment supports that we will all end up paying for regardless.

Lundstram

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

IT and Indo now both saying that takeaway pints will be banned for the remainder of this current lockdown

That is fcuking outrageous.

Utterly spineless decision that will only serve to punish businesses and the people who act responsibly.

Ginger n Lemon

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

IT and Indo now both saying that takeaway pints will be banned for the remainder of this current lockdown

Govts, and in particular Stephen Donnelly's stupidity knows no bounds.

Surely can be challenged in courts? What is this majority suffering because of a few?

Allinall

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

I posted earlier that 1 of the changes from the latest budget is that taxpayers will not get any interest from Revenue on any tax over payments or tax payments that have been appealed successfully, interest accruing over the duration of the appeal. That is bad.

Now this.

Whats next? USC 2.0? Damn this is very upsetting.

Ah... don't be upset.

People were massively overpaying tax in order to get repayments with interest. Basically using the government, and by proxy the taxpayers of the country as bankers, when the general interest rates were close to zero.

All they have done is close off this scam.

Penfailed

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

The social scene in Ireland is never going to return

...except it will return.

nofools

Lundstram wrote: »

That is fcuking outrageous.

Utterly spineless decision that will only serve to punish businesses and the people who act responsibly.

The people acting responsibly known that if they themselves went and drank >4 takeaway pints in a crowd that they would quickly lose their inhibitions, get too close to everyone and start singing and shouting.

So they don't go.

That is just what alcohol does.

nofools

Penfailed wrote: »

...except it will return.

Like a very coiled frustrated spring! Can't wait

Ginger n Lemon

Allinall wrote: »

It's moral because we have set an income limit over which everyone pays tax.

why should some people earn more than that limit and not pay tax, and others are subject to tax?

Would that not be immoral?

Just saying up front I do like this debate with you.

In my opinion its immoral not because of PUP being over or under the income limit that is subject to tax, but exclusively because PUP only occurs wholly because of governments power to shut businesses down. People who are on PUP are not declining to work. They want to work, vast majority anyways.

So we have a scenario where healthy people who want to work are being prevented from working by the government, get up to 350 euros a week, and then are taxed on it and ultimately reduce the net amount. All of this is while already suffering 20%+ of a paycut essentially from the minimum wage jobs (and a whole lot more reduction from regular jobs), exclusively because of govts actions.

Its one of those where I give and I take. Its immoral....

hynesie08

Oh no, they're banning takeaway pints....... So pubs will just buy growlers and instead of having to queue 4 times you only queue once.....

Genius move by the government, that'll teach them....

Golfman64

nofools wrote: »

Like a very coiled frustrated spring! Can't wait

I can imagine the reopening night of Coppers....whenever that is next year! The hangovers will be immense!

Lundstram

https://twitter.com/FergalBowers/status/1328374229906173961

Oh that's great. I wonder why that is? Most restricted country in Europe and here we are today rolling out more restrictions. What a sh1thole nanny state kip we live in.

thegetawaycar

No way should they ban takeaway pints, just fine people if drinking on the street and breaking a by-law or if breaking the current rules/guidelines/restrictions.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/health/covid19/public_health_measures_for_covid19.html#la8ecb

A quick fining of a few hundred people on 1 or 2 Friday/Saturday nights will soon stop people taking the piss.

nofools

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

What is this majority suffering because of a few?

Finally you are starting to get it

completedit

thegetawaycar wrote: »

No way should they ban takeaway pints, just fine people if drinking on the street and breaking a by-law or if breaking the current rules/guidelines/restrictions.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/health/covid19/public_health_measures_for_covid19.html#la8ecb

A quick fining of a few hundred people on 1 or 2 Friday/Saturday nights will soon stop people taking the piss.

Sorry am I missing something? But do people think the intention of take away pints is to bring them in the ****ing car home with you? The whole point of take away pints is to bring them out on the street and drink them. If you ban the drinking on the street, you effectively ban takeaway pints.

Ginger n Lemon

Allinall wrote: »

Ah... don't be upset.

People were massively overpaying tax in order to get repayments with interest. Basically using the government, and by proxy the taxpayers of the country as bankers, when the general interest rates were close to zero.

All they have done is close off this scam.

Well thats not true. Irish Tax institute is upset. not just me.

But i suppose from your point of view ITI is borderline owned by bankers.. ? :rolleyes:

Allinall

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Just saying up front I do like this debate with you.

In my opinion its immoral not because of PUP being over or under the income limit that is subject to tax, but exclusively because PUP only occurs wholly because of governments power to shut businesses down. People who are on PUP are not declining to work. They want to work, vast majority anyways.

So we have a scenario where healthy people who want to work are being prevented from working by the government, get up to 350 euros a week, and then are taxed on it and ultimately reduce the net amount. All of this is while already suffering 20%+ of a paycut essentially from the minimum wage jobs (and a whole lot more reduction from regular jobs), exclusively because of govts actions.

Its one of those where I give and I take. Its immoral....

If someone was on the PUP maximum rate of €350 for a whole year, they would pay no tax.

They're taxed as it is added to other earned income. This is as it should be.

Penfailed

average_runner wrote: »

Shutting the borders is an easier thing to do as 9 countries did it in Europe last March, so there is a template to follow.

Closing the border with NI is a non runner. It's far as far from an easy thing to do as you can get.

Penfailed

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Also - hi there Pen.

Hi G'n'L. Hope you're well.

hynesie08

completedit wrote: »

Sorry am I missing something? But do people think the intention of take away pints is to bring them in the ****ing car home with you? The whole point of take away pints is to bring them out on the street and drink them. If you ban the drinking on the street, you effectively ban takeaway pints.

I live close enough to a pub doing takeaway pints that I can ring in my order, be there as they're finished pouring and be home with them before the guinness has settled. I've only used it once, but I'd say there's 3-400 houses around me that are in the same situation.

Obviously that isn't the case with the city centre bars, but I'd say it's a big source of income Mon-Fri.

Allinall

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Well thats not true. Irish Tax institute is upset. not just me.

But i suppose from your point of view ITI is borderline owned by bankers.. ? :rolleyes:

What's not true?

Of course the ITI are not happy with it. They're a private organisation set up to lobby on behalf of businesses.

completedit

hynesie08 wrote: »

I live close enough to a pub doing takeaway pints that I can ring in my order, be there as they're finished pouring and be home with them before the guinness has settled. I've only used it once, but I'd say there's 3-400 houses around me that are in the same situation.

Obviously that isn't the case with the city centre bars, but I'd say it's a big source of income Mon-Fri.

Impractical for the majority of people. There's something so annoying about the cohort of Irish people who want to take the craic out of drinking. Drinking is a social event, a fun and spontaneous experience. You can't square keeping them open and serving pints with adhering to Covid measures. It's one or the other. I don't understand a cohort of Irish people's aversion to outdoor drinking but it seems very prominent. Covid is just an extra reason for it to come under scrutiny.

awec

completedit wrote: »

Sorry am I missing something? But do people think the intention of take away pints is to bring them in the ****ing car home with you? The whole point of take away pints is to bring them out on the street and drink them. If you ban the drinking on the street, you effectively ban takeaway pints.

Yes, I think you're missing something.

Of course people are getting takeaway pints and then bringing them home.

BeefeaterHat

nofools wrote: »

There is an irony to lamenting that you won't get 100% compliance while cheerleading against restrictions, the government and anyone who is doing the right thing.

I'm not lamenting against anything I'm stating a simple fact. Also if you think this government are capable of doing the 'right thing' or anything remotely related to anything right think again

nofools

BeefeaterHat wrote: »

I'm not lamenting against anything I'm stating a simple fact. Also if you think this government are capable of doing the 'right thing' or anything remotely related to anything right think again

Well you are either with us or against us in the battle with covid.

Ginger n Lemon

Allinall wrote: »

What's not true?

Of course the ITI are not happy with it. They're a private organisation set up to lobby on behalf of businesses.

On behalf of taxpayers.

BeefeaterHat

nofools wrote: »

Well you are either with us or against us in the battle with covid.

Who's us? Jesus you're starting to sound like Josef Stalin at this point take a break.

FintanMcluskey

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

IT and Indo now both saying that takeaway pints will be banned for the remainder of this current lockdown

It’s a police state

nofools

BeefeaterHat wrote: »

Who's us? Jesus you're starting to sound like Josef Stalin at this point take a break.

The sensible majority or the difficult minority earning us more and more restrictions daily.

Some people are slow learners that can't put 2 and 2 together about cause and effect.