Affordable EV (5k or less) with ranges of 300km or more?

tom1ie · 15-11-2020 11:45am #1

When do we think we will reach a point when the 2nd hand ev market becomes affordable (5k or less) with ranges of 300km or more?

I set these parameters as this would be when I buy an ev and I would love an ev as I do 25k kms a year at least.
I’m driving a diesel at the minute which is probably worth 3k (Vauxhall insignia Sri 2011) but is working perfectly and has no debt on it, which is something I wouldn’t want to change by swapping over to an ev.

15-11-2020 11:52am

tom1ie wrote: »

When do we think we will reach a point when the 2nd hand ev market becomes affordable (5k or less) with ranges of 300km or more?

I set these parameters as this would be when I buy an ev and I would love an ev as I do 25k kms a year at least.
I’m driving a diesel at the minute which is probably worth 3k (Vauxhall insignia Sri 2011) but is working perfectly and has no debt on it, which is something I wouldn’t want to change by swapping over to an ev.

I hope that the current range of EVs will be in that price bracket within the next 5 years, but, it may take longer as there will be many of us in a similar position who will be snapping them up when the prices drop down within our reach.

KCross · 15-11-2020 11:53am

tom1ie wrote: »

When do we think we will reach a point when the 2nd hand ev market becomes affordable (5k or less) with ranges of 300km or more?

Crystal ball..... 7-10yrs... particularly if you are talking about real world range at speed and still getting that range as a secondhand car, not when the car was new.

unkel · 15-11-2020 12:06pm

A 2019 Kona 64kWh for €5k? I'd say you're looking at 2030 at least.

Gumbo · 15-11-2020 12:24pm

tom1ie wrote: »

When do we think we will reach a point when the 2nd hand ev market becomes affordable (5k or less) with ranges of 300km or more?

I set these parameters as this would be when I buy an ev and I would love an ev as I do 25k kms a year at least.
I’m driving a diesel at the minute which is probably worth 3k (Vauxhall insignia Sri 2011) but is working perfectly and has no debt on it, which is something I wouldn’t want to change by swapping over to an ev.

First you have to look at the EV’s that can do 300km.
What price are the now. Work it backwards.

Currently do that price, you can only get the very early Leaf, Fluence, which suggests values are holding strong.

Tesla.
Kona
eNiro

What others fall into the bracket?

the_amazing_raisin · 15-11-2020 12:40pm

unkel wrote: »

A 2019 Kona 64kWh for €5k? I'd say you're looking at 2030 at least.

Maybe, I think a lot depends on whether any hand on the sale of ICE cars comes in. If it does, then second hand EVs will be in high demand, so the price will stay high.

If it doesn't, then it's subject to the same depreciation as any other car. You can get a 2012 Leaf for 6.5k at the moment, so if a Kona goes the same way then you're looking at 2026-27 for it to hit the 5k mark

Of course, the battery warranty will be ending then, so that'll likely bring the price down further

tom1ie · 15-11-2020 12:59pm

Yeah that’s a pity. I’d say I’ll be getting another diesel within the 7 years then which is something I didn’t want to do.

KCross · 15-11-2020 1:07pm

cruisey1987 wrote: »

You can get a 2012 Leaf for 6.5k at the moment, so if a Kona goes the same way then you're looking at 2026-27 for it to hit the 5k mark

A 2012 Leaf was ~€26k new. A Kona is ~€40k so they won’t be the same price at all at the same age particularly when you consider the residual value and capacity of the battery in both of those cars.... 22kWh vs 64kWh!

unkel · 15-11-2020 3:44pm

Dohvolle wrote: »

Same goes for 2nd Gen Leaf. 171 30kwh available for €14k. Retailed new for €29k.
50% depreciation in 3 years

That's the first generation Leaf. And it's the exception to the rule, the only EV that ever depreciated a lot. That's because when it was getting a few years old, there was very little demand for second hand EVs. Nobody wanted one. Things are very different now. Everybody knows they will own an EV soon

Also I specced a brand new base model Leaf in 2016 with metallic paint and optional 6.6kW charger for €19k on the road. In 2017 you could get the top spec Tekna model for same

There was probably only one fool in this country who actually paid 29k for a Leaf in 2017

I bought my Ioniq in January 2017 for €25k. Now, almost 4 years later, it is still worth about €18k

Black_Knight · 15-11-2020 5:08pm

It's there a high base price an EV can go to while having range (good battery)? Their battery will still be worth something for parts, though I guess batteries coming down in price etc will curb that.

Kcross seems around the same as my thinking. 7-10 years. Kona etc are well over the 300km mentioned. Zoe will probably be the first, no?

unkel · 15-11-2020 5:27pm

Zoe 40 already down to about €16k, but these were overpriced / heavily discounted when new

It will only do 300km in summer at a very limited speed though, so doesn't really count. I think we are talking 300km at motorway speeds here (which Kona can do)

tom1ie · 15-11-2020 5:43pm

unkel wrote: »

Zoe 40 already down to about €16k, but these were overpriced / heavily discounted when new

It will only do 300km in summer at a very limited speed though, so doesn't really count. I think we are talking 300km at motorway speeds here (which Kona can do)

Yep 300k at motorway speeds in winter would be absolute minimum.
7years is a long bloody wait!!

Black_Knight · 15-11-2020 6:28pm

tom1ie wrote: »

Yep 300k at motorway speeds in winter would be absolute minimum.
7years is a long bloody wait!!

Well only the new ones now are able to do that. Even some of the new ones can't... Mazda!

300km on a motorway in winter is kinda the worst scenario for EV range.

unkel · 15-11-2020 6:39pm

tom1ie wrote: »

7years is a long bloody wait!!

Make that 10 years.

But why wait that long? Why do you need 300km in the one go? What's wrong with a quick stop to take a break and charge up? A 2016 Ioniq with a tiny 28kWh battery can do that trip with one stop of about 25 minutes to charge

Obviously not great if you do that trip a few times a week, but who does? The savings of having an EV are tremendous. Very, very cheap to run, ultra reliable with near zero maintenance and zero emissions

tom1ie · 15-11-2020 6:44pm

unkel wrote: »

Make that 10 years.

But why wait that long? Why do you need 300km in the one go? What's wrong with a quick stop to take a break and charge up? A 2016 Ioniq with a tiny 28kWh battery can do that trip with one stop of about 25 minutes to charge

Obviously not great if you do that trip a few times a week, but who does? The savings of having an EV are tremendous. Very, very cheap to run, ultra reliable with near zero maintenance and zero emissions

I would do at least three trips of 300km round trip a week.
It doesn’t make financial sense for me to change to an ev at the moment as my car has no debt on it.
To get an ev I would need a loan.
The monthly repayments would wipe out any fuel and tax savings.

unkel · 15-11-2020 6:53pm

tom1ie wrote: »

I would do at least three trips of 300km round trip a week.
It doesn’t make financial sense for me to change to an ev at the moment as my car has no debt on it.
To get an ev I would need a loan.
The monthly repayments would wipe out any fuel and tax savings.

Have you actually done the sums? For someone doing big miles, the savings are enormous

And repayments are not costs. Interest on your finance is costs

tom1ie · 15-11-2020 6:55pm

unkel wrote: »

Have you actually done the sums? For someone doing big miles, the savings are enormous

And repayments are not costs. Interest on your finance is costs

?
I pay diesel, tax and service costs on my car now.
If I buy an ev that has the range (40k)
I pay cheaper tax cheaper service cheaper fuel but €800 a month repayments that wipes out any savings.
It would cost me more than what I have now.

unkel · 15-11-2020 6:59pm

Repayments are not costs! They are outgoings, cash outflow. Depreciation and interest on your finance are costs.

So you have to compare depreciation, interest, maintenance, fuel, tolls, tax (presuming insurance is about the same for either)

tom1ie · 15-11-2020 7:02pm

unkel wrote: »

Repayments are not costs! They are outgoings, cash outflow. Depreciation and interest on your finance are costs.

So you have to compare depreciation, interest, maintenance, fuel, tolls, tax (presuming insurance is about the same for either)

Repayments are costs!
If I pay €0 per month to the bank to own my car but then have to pay €800 per month to the bank to own my car how is that not a cost?
That’s €800 I could be throwing off my mortgage!

unkel · 15-11-2020 7:17pm

The €800 is just an outgoing, it makes your ownership of the car worth €800 more

Let's do some basic sums for you. Let's say you're a pauper and you don't have a cent to your name. Let's say your current car is a diesel banger worth nothing. So has zero depreciation. Let's say you do 60k km per year, motor tax on an EV is €120, on your banger €400. You buy a €16k Zoe with a loan over 5 years at 7% interest after which the car is worth €8k. Banger costs €1000 maintenance and tires per year, Zoe €200. Your diesel uses 6l /100km and the Zoe does 17kWh / 100km. 80% of your Zoe charging is at home at the night rate and 20% is at public chargers at 30c/kWh. Discount on tolls 500 for the Zoe. Total cost per year

Banger: 1000 + 400 + (60000/100) * 6*1.20 = €5.7k

Zoe: 1600 + (16000/2)*0.07 + 200 +120 + 0.80*(60000/100)*17*0.07 + 0.20*(60000/100)*17*0.30 -500 = €3.2k

Or a saving of €2500 per year over owning a banger! Now there is some amount you can throw of your mortgage!

Change the figures for your situation, this is just an example

tom1ie · 15-11-2020 7:38pm

unkel wrote: »

The €800 is just an outgoing, it makes your ownership of the car worth €800 more

Let's do some basic sums for you. Let's say you're a pauper and you don't have a cent to your name. Let's say your current car is a diesel banger worth nothing. So has zero depreciation. Let's say you do 60k km per year, motor tax on an EV is €120, on your banger €400. You buy a €16k Zoe with a loan over 5 years at 7% interest after which the car is worth €8k. Banger costs €1000 maintenance and tires per year, Zoe €200. Your diesel uses 6l /100km and the Zoe does 17kWh / 100km. 80% of your Zoe charging is at home at the night rate and 20% is at public chargers at 30c/kWh. Discount on tolls 500 for the Zoe. Total cost per year

Banger: 1000 + 400 + (60000/100) * 6*1.20 = €5.7k

Zoe: 1600 + (16000/2)*0.07 + 200 +120 + 0.80*(60000/100)*17*0.07 + 0.20*(60000/100)*17*0.30 -500 = €3.2k

Or a saving of €2500 per year over owning a banger! Now there is some amount you can throw of your mortgage!

Change the figures for your situation, this is just an example

Why have you divided the 16000 loan by 2?
How much is the Zoe costing me a month on loan repayments only?

AndyBoBandy · 15-11-2020 8:01pm

I've driven my EV 15,000km since getting it, and have put about €115 of my own money (home charging) into it in that time.

In my BMW 320d, that same 15,000km would have cost me around €1,250 in diesel (assuming €1.20 per litre), and by now would also be due an oil change (which I do myself, but still costs around €45 in oil & oil filter).

So the cost of driving an EV for that 15,000km is 8.9% of the cost of doing the same milage in my diesel BMW. (and thats before we even talk about the tax (€710 in the BMW compared to €120 in the EV)).

tom1ie · 15-11-2020 8:22pm

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

I've driven my EV 15,000km since getting it, and have put about €115 of my own money (home charging) into it in that time.

In my BMW 320d, that same 15,000km would have cost me around €1,250 in diesel (assuming €1.20 per litre), and by now would also be due an oil change (which I do myself, but still costs around €45 in oil & oil filter).

So the cost of driving an EV for that 15,000km is 8.9% of the cost of doing the same milage in my diesel BMW. (and thats before we even talk about the tax (€710 in the BMW compared to €120 in the EV)).

Agreed but I’m not arguing this at all I know an ev is cheaper to run.
But for me to get an ev I have to take out a loan.
To get the ev I need that loan is 40k and costs 800 per month in repayments.
The repayments on my insignia are zero at the moment.
Therefore any savings I make on the ev are wiped out by the 800 pm cost of the loan.

garo · 15-11-2020 8:49pm

So wait a few years. Not the 7-10 that it will take for an EV to be sub 5k. EVs start to make financial sense for you at around 15k I think. Or think of a PCP. An EV would save you 1500 per annum conservatively. Run the current diesel until it becomes uneconomic to repair it and then switch to an EV. You would be spending money on a car then anyway so do the sums then.

It does not make economic sense to wait until an EV with your desired range is sub 5k because you are ignoring the 1500 you save every year. In 3 years you'd be better off with a 9k EV than a 5k diesel.

unkel · 15-11-2020 8:50pm

tom1ie wrote: »

Why have you divided the 16000 loan by 2?

You take out a loan of 16000 and you pay that back over 5 years in full. At the start 16000 is outstanding, at the end 0. On average 8000 (or 16000/2) over which you pay interest

tom1ie wrote: »

Why have you divided the 16000 loan by 2?
How much is the Zoe costing me a month on loan repayments only?

You pay 7% * 8000 = 560 interest per year

Your repayment are 16000 / 5 per year = 3200 per year

So overall you pay out (3200 repayments - 2500 cost savings) / 52 = €13 per week more than with your banger, but remember after the 5 years you own the car worth 8k, so you could sell it and pay a large chunk off your mortgage :cool:

Now of course these figures might not be exact for you, you need to change them for your needs. Perhaps you pay more for finance, perhaps less. You might have work charging, you might take out a loan over 3 years instead of 5 years, etc.

15-11-2020 9:41pm

unkel wrote: »

The €800 is just an outgoing, it makes your ownership of the car worth €800 more

Let's do some basic sums for you. Let's say you're a pauper and you don't have a cent to your name. Let's say your current car is a diesel banger worth nothing. So has zero depreciation. Let's say you do 60k km per year, motor tax on an EV is €120, on your banger €400. You buy a €16k Zoe with a loan over 5 years at 7% interest after which the car is worth €8k. Banger costs €1000 maintenance and tires per year, Zoe €200. Your diesel uses 6l /100km and the Zoe does 17kWh / 100km. 80% of your Zoe charging is at home at the night rate and 20% is at public chargers at 30c/kWh. Discount on tolls 500 for the Zoe. Total cost per year

Banger: 1000 + 400 + (60000/100) * 6*1.20 = €5.7k

Zoe: 1600 + (16000/2)*0.07 + 200 +120 + 0.80*(60000/100)*17*0.07 + 0.20*(60000/100)*17*0.30 -500 = €3.2k

Or a saving of €2500 per year over owning a banger! Now there is some amount you can throw of your mortgage!

Change the figures for your situation, this is just an example

Seriously patronising 'Let's do some basic sums for you'.

Private individuals aren't businesses.... If you finance a car the payment needs to be paid... Call it a cost or an outgoing .... It still needs to be paid.

15-11-2020 9:43pm

tom1ie wrote: »

Agreed but I’m not arguing this at all I know an ev is cheaper to run.
But for me to get an ev I have to take out a loan.
To get the ev I need that loan is 40k and costs 800 per month in repayments.
The repayments on my insignia are zero at the moment.
Therefore any savings I make on the ev are wiped out by the 800 pm cost of the loan.

It's not a cost so don't worry about it :pac:

unkel · 15-11-2020 10:47pm

Augeo wrote: »

Seriously patronising

I was trying to help tom1ie out. A lot of people in Ireland make poor decisions in their lives because they do not understand some basic finance. With his huge annual mileage, he would be much better off financially in an EV, even if that meant having to finance it.

If that sounds patronising, so be it, I don't really care. If it helps tom1ie or someone else, I'd be very happy.

Kramer · 15-11-2020 11:09pm

unkel wrote: »

The savings of having an EV are tremendous. Very, very cheap to run, ultra reliable with near zero maintenance and zero emissions

How many times has your very recently acquired Tesla been in for repair now?
Isn't the €20k battery now kaputt too?

:P.

Zero emissions is green BS too. Emissions in manufacture, energy consumption & use. Yes, far less than ICE, but nowhere near zero.

Your Model S will now be using even more resources as the battery is arguably the most resource intensive component in an EV.

It'll be recycled............yadda.....yada.......yadda.

Kramer · 15-11-2020 11:19pm

unkel wrote: »

I was trying to help tom1ie out.

With leprechaun economics :pac:.

A Zoe for €16k, still worth €8k after 5 years & 300,000km
? You'd recommend a Zoe for that use?

I wouldn't.

Even a 64kWh Kona after 300,000km would likely be down to 70% capacity by then, if running at all. Totally out of warranty at that stage of course, for probably a good 150,000km.

We accumulated 50,000km on a new Ioniq in about a year, (100,000km electric kms now in approaching 2 years) so I'm well aware of the savings in running costs of EVs, but 300,000km in a €16k Zoe is crazy talk :P.

tom1ie · 16-11-2020 8:14am

I think there’s some hoodwinking going on with the sums here tbh!
How anyone can argue I’d be financially better off by taking out a loan I’ve to pay 800 euro a month back on per month compared to now when I don’t have to pay 800 a month back to a lender as I don’t have a loan!!

MJohnston · 16-11-2020 9:25am

tom1ie wrote: »

I think there’s some hoodwinking going on with the sums here tbh!
How anyone can argue I’d be financially better off by taking out a loan I’ve to pay 800 euro a month back on per month compared to now when I don’t have to pay 800 a month back to a lender as I don’t have a loan!!

They’re not arguing you’re better off necessarily, just that loan repayments themselves are not costs because you are trading one type of financial asset (money) for another asset of equal value — the car. The cost is the loan interest.

So compare the interest portion to your ongoing costs for an ICE, not the entirety of the loan repayments.

Markcheese · 16-11-2020 9:35am

There are plenty of inoiq's online at sub 18000 to 20,000,
Minus whatever the trade in value of your insignia is , that makes for a very different sum,
Yes ,you'd still have car finance, but your actual driving costs would be far far less ,

You'd probably have to do a short recharge on a long journey , but you'd probably have to stop for diesel too ..

tom1ie · 16-11-2020 9:38am

MJohnston wrote: »

They’re not arguing you’re better off necessarily, just that loan repayments themselves are not costs because you are trading one type of financial asset (money) for another asset of equal value — the car. The cost is the loan interest.

So compare the interest portion to your ongoing costs for an ICE, not the entirety of the loan repayments.

Loan repayments ARE a cost if you didn’t have that cost before yet still had a car.
This MUST be factored in.
Not to factor that in is crazy!

tom1ie · 16-11-2020 9:40am

Markcheese wrote: »

There are plenty of inoiq's online at sub 18000 to 20,000,
Minus whatever the trade in value of your insignia is , that makes for a very different sum,
Yes ,you'd still have car finance, but your actual driving costs would be far far less ,

You'd probably have to do a short recharge on a long journey , but you'd probably have to stop for diesel too ..

Id need a car that can do 300km non stop in worst case scenario.
That only leaves a model 3 s or ID 4 as far as I know.
That would mean a 40k loan at 800 pm repayments that wipes out any fuel/tax/service savings unfortunately

Silent Running · 16-11-2020 9:46am

tom1ie wrote: »

Id need a car that can do 300km non stop in worst case scenario.
That only leaves a model 3 s or ID 4 as far as I know.
That would mean a 40k loan at 800 pm repayments that wipes out any fuel/tax/service savings unfortunately

Kona and e-Niro can do that, no problem. I did 320kms mostly motorway (UK) in January and had 75 kms range pulling into the services to recharge.

Because it was UK motorway, the speed was 112kph which is 70mph, so it's doable if you don't drive like a lunatic. More relaxing not looking out for speed vans or uniforms with hairdryers too.

ted1 · 16-11-2020 10:24am

tom1ie wrote: »

When do we think we will reach a point when the 2nd hand ev market becomes affordable (5k or less) with ranges of 300km or more?

I set these parameters as this would be when I buy an ev and I would love an ev as I do 25k kms a year at least.
I’m driving a diesel at the minute which is probably worth 3k (Vauxhall insignia Sri 2011) but is working perfectly and has no debt on it, which is something I wouldn’t want to change by swapping over to an ev.

so you've a 2011 car that costs 3k that you used to travel 25000km a year in, so approx. fuel cost is 2000.

that car will also require a DMF, clutch, brakes or exhaust.

so lets say after 3 years that car costs 3k(cara)+2k(fuel)+2k(fuel)+2k(fuel)+750(parts)=9,750k and you want to repalce it with a car that costs 5k +250 (fuel)*3 =5750.

TheChizler · 16-11-2020 10:42am

tom1ie wrote: »

I think there’s some hoodwinking going on with the sums here tbh!
How anyone can argue I’d be financially better off by taking out a loan I’ve to pay 800 euro a month back on per month compared to now when I don’t have to pay 800 a month back to a lender as I don’t have a loan!!

I've often wondered how people justify buying new cars to themselves, I guess if you don't consider €40k plus interest a cost it's easy!

Surely that only makes sense with an asset that retains value and you're likely to sell for something on the order of the original price, like a house. A 300,000km Kona isn't going to see much change as a trade in...

charlieIRL · 16-11-2020 10:44am

OP, i do 30-40K a year and was driving an Audi A4 Avant which was very economical on diesel but with the money I'm saving on fuel bills / tax / insurance covers the cost of the repayments of my eGolf.

One thing to remember if you're looking for a 300km car for 5k, by the time they are that cheap there may be some serious battery degradation so if a car done 300kms new, i don't think it will do near that at say - 10 years old!

The J Stands for Jay · 16-11-2020 10:48am

tom1ie wrote: »

I think there’s some hoodwinking going on with the sums here tbh!
How anyone can argue I’d be financially better off by taking out a loan I’ve to pay 800 euro a month back on per month compared to now when I don’t have to pay 800 a month back to a lender as I don’t have a loan!!

How much do you spend on diesel each month? How much extra will the additional cost of a EV over a €5k diesel cost you each month when it's time to change? How much would the electricity cost you in this hypothetical EV? A bit of maths on these numbers and the savings on electricity v diesel might cover your extra finance cost.

Lumen · 16-11-2020 11:08am

TheChizler wrote: »

I've often wondered how people justify buying new cars to themselves, I guess if you don't consider €40k plus interest a cost it's easy!

Surely that only makes sense with an asset that retains value and you're likely to sell for something on the order of the original price, like a house.

Cars are a depreciating consumer good not an investment. Do you worry the same about a holiday, or a TV, or a meal out?

Even spending money on houses doesn't often make sense. A new kitchen is worthless after 20 years, so why do people buy them? Cos they want one.

I'm surprised nobody has written "you don't need 300km range". Or maybe they have and I've missed it.

MJohnston · 16-11-2020 11:10am

tom1ie wrote: »

Loan repayments ARE a cost if you didn’t have that cost before yet still had a car.
This MUST be factored in.
Not to factor that in is crazy!

It's certainly a budgetary cost, I don't think that's in dispute, the point is that the net asset cost for you is zero on repayments alone.

The interest is where car finance starts costing you money.

Of course, simply holding onto money is costing you money, even a decent interest savings account at the minute is a bad financial investment.

MJohnston · 16-11-2020 11:22am

TheChizler wrote: »

I've often wondered how people justify buying new cars to themselves, I guess if you don't consider €40k plus interest a cost it's easy!

Surely that only makes sense with an asset that retains value and you're likely to sell for something on the order of the original price, like a house. A 300,000km Kona isn't going to see much change as a trade in...

This doesn't really stand up as a counter-point because you're talking about a newly bought Kona somehow having 300,000km on the clock after the finance period (3-5 years max).

adunis · 16-11-2020 11:29am

My 2 cents
I have two electric cars both on finance
Both do CA.35k per year
What I don't spend on fuel/maintenance etc etc PAYS for 1.5 of them
NETT cost to me is 400 euro p/m
ONE IS A Zoe 4.0 on 0% 5 year loan from new
One is a 2017 Ioniq on a 5 year loan at I don't even know what APR, It's cheap,it's not PCP'd cos it was bought 2nd hand for 21k.
My logic is very simple if it all goes to S@1t in the morning both of them will easily cover their debt,I'll have had the use of them in the interim and I'll just buy a 100 euro throwaway S@1tbox .

FINANCE IS NOTHING TO BE SCARED OF IF YOU DO IT RIGHT.

tom1ie · 16-11-2020 11:33am

ted1 wrote: »

so you've a 2011 car that costs 3k that you used to travel 25000km a year in, so approx. fuel cost is 2000.

that car will also require a DMF, clutch, brakes or exhaust.

so lets say after 3 years that car costs 3k(cara)+2k(fuel)+2k(fuel)+2k(fuel)+750(parts)=9,750k and you want to repalce it with a car that costs 5k +250 (fuel)*3 =5750.

why are you adding in the 3k cost?
the car is paid for, i have zero debt on the car.
to get an EV i would have to take on debt.

tom1ie · 16-11-2020 11:36am

Lumen wrote: »

Cars are a depreciating consumer good not an investment. Do you worry the same about a holiday, or a TV, or a meal out?

Even spending money on houses doesn't often make sense. A new kitchen is worthless after 20 years, so why do people buy them? Cos they want one.

I'm surprised nobody has written "you don't need 300km range". Or maybe they have and I've missed it.

i need 300km range as i regularly do at leat a 300km round trip 3 times a week.
i dont want to have to charge at a public charge point for at leat 30 mins to get home.
i dont have destination charging at the work site either.

adunis · 16-11-2020 11:37am

tom1ie wrote: »

why are you adding in the 3k cost?
the car is paid for, i have zero debt on the car.
to get an EV i would have to take on debt.

The Debt isn't what the car costs
The Debt is what it will have cost you if you have to get rid of it.

I.e 10k car oh dear my jobs gone
Sold in a hurry for 8k
Cost to you 2k not 10k

Markcheese · 16-11-2020 11:39am

To be honest you're right ,a cheap long range ev doesn't exist ...
you might be better off selling the insignia , and buying an old audi a2 diesel ,
You'll get cheap ,reliable,efficient driving .. about 80mpg
And you'll only need to stop for fuel every 7 or 8 hundred kms ,
You're also right about if want the new long range cars ,you'll have to pay 40grand and the interest ,and not every one wants a huge car loan hanging over them,
Even in 4 or 5 years time those cars are likely to be 25 grand plus , ( purely supply and demand ),
There are newer cheaper evs coming along very soon , but if you want long range it'll still cost you ...

tom1ie · 16-11-2020 11:40am

adunis wrote: »

My 2 cents
I have two electric cars both on finance
Both do CA.35k per year
What I don't spend on fuel/maintenance etc etc PAYS for 1.5 of them
NETT cost to me is 400 euro p/m
ONE IS A Zoe 4.0 on 0% 5 year loan from new
One is a 2017 Ioniq on a 5 year loan at I don't even know what APR, It's cheap,it's not PCP'd cos it was bought 2nd hand for 21k.
My logic is very simple if it all goes to S@1t in the morning both of them will easily cover their debt,I'll have had the use of them in the interim and I'll just buy a 100 euro throwaway S@1tbox .

FINANCE IS NOTHING TO BE SCARED OF IF YOU DO IT RIGHT.

but why spend the monthly repayment on financing the debt, when you already have a car that doesnt have debt on it?

ie if a debt costs you 800pm to drive car A but to drive car B costs 0pm, which one costs less from your wage packet?

no amount of fuel saving will counteract that.

By the way i say all this with regret as i would love an EV. It just doesn't make financial sense.

tom1ie · 16-11-2020 11:42am

adunis wrote: »

The Debt isn't what the car costs
The Debt is what it will have cost you if you have to get rid of it.

I.e 10k car oh dear my jobs gone
Sold in a hurry for 8k
Cost to you 2k not 10k

the debt is not what you borrow( I'm not bothered by that), its how much it costs to your monthly outgoings, ie car A costs 800pm to service debt
car B costs 0pm to service 0 debt.

TheChizler · 16-11-2020 11:43am

Lumen wrote: »

Cars are a depreciating consumer good not an investment. Do you worry the same about a holiday, or a TV, or a meal out?

Exactly, and I would treat a holiday, TV, or a meal out as a cost that although had value to me at the time, is money I'm never going to see again.

MJohnston wrote: »

This doesn't really stand up as a counter-point because you're talking about a newly bought Kona somehow having 300,000km on the clock after the finance period (3-5 years max).

Ok call the cost the finance, or depreciation or whatever, but at the end of day when you've run the car into the ground you're out of pocket to the tune of €40k. Sure it's cheaper to run but the price of the car has to be factored into your sums somewhere, otherwise we'd all go out buying model Ss.

Affordable EV (5k or less) with ranges of 300km or more?

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