Affordable EV (5k or less) with ranges of 300km or more?

MJohnston

I believe, and I'm willing to be corrected on this point, that a 300km continuous journey at motorway speeds is physically and legally impossible in Ireland.

Lumen

MJohnston wrote: »

I believe, and I'm willing to be corrected on this point, that a 300km continuous journey at motorway speeds is physically and legally impossible in Ireland.

Nobody has specified a continuous journey. It's a round trip.

Markcheese

Thierry12 wrote: »

The good thing is those big risks will kill 2nd hand values for out of warranty EVs

Exotic stuff like Teslas become a liability out of warranty

I think we will see alot of companies like AA become insurance companies almost when EVs take over as they wont have the breakdowns they have with ICE

Out of warranty insurance will become the norm, not niche like now

Anyone driving an out of warranty Tesla would be insane not to take out cover on battery, drive train etc

But .. if it's a high risk of the premium car commiting suicide ,then the insurance will be very high .. and they it's like motor tax on a premium Merc or bmw .. how much ? Shure the cars not even worth that ..
Insurance is based off possibility.. assurance is based on certainty ,and if you take out a battery assurance policy at around 200,000 miles , with an average milage of 20,000 a year and an expected average battery life of say 400000 miles then that's the battery cost (plus costs) divide by 10 ...annually ..
Would you be keen on paying that every year for a 10 to 15 year old car ?

MJohnston

Lumen wrote: »

Nobody has specified a continuous journey. It's a round trip.

Yes but if we accept that it's not a continuous journey, then there's wiggle room around whether the vehicle needs to be able to do 300km in a single charge. There are lots of 260km range models that could do 300km with a short pitstop.

Additionally, it's very likely that some portion of that 300km will be below "motorway speeds", thus increasing the range efficiency of any potential vehicle.

There's also the unrelated question of how fast you really want for 'motorway speeds'. If you're willing to accept the extra 15-30 minutes that driving at 110kph or 100kph would bring, then you'll be able to expand your selection of potential vehicles even further.

For example, my i3 can easily do 300km at 100kph. Throw in a 10 minute piss break and a fast charge and I'd be able to do it at 120kph no bother.

In short — I think the focus on a hard limit of a 300km range is not worthwhile, if you're looking for value.

Gumbo

tom1ie wrote: »

Loan repayments ARE a cost if you didn’t have that cost before yet still had a car.
This MUST be factored in.
Not to factor that in is crazy!

You won’t have your €800 diesel bill.

Gumbo

tom1ie wrote: »

the debt is not what you borrow( I'm not bothered by that), its how much it costs to your monthly outgoings, ie car A costs 800pm to service debt
car B costs 0pm to service 0 debt.

Car A costs €800 Per month to fuel.
Car B costs €100 per month to fuel.

Either way it’s irrelevant. You can’t get an EV with 300km motorway speeds range for your budget of €5k.

tom1ie

MJohnston wrote: »

I believe, and I'm willing to be corrected on this point, that a 300km continuous journey at motorway speeds is physically and legally impossible in Ireland.

150 there and 150 back at least.
multiple sites to visit during the day also.
mileage can easily go above 300km

tom1ie

Gumbo wrote: »

Car A costs €800 Per month to fuel.
Car B costs €100 per month to fuel.

Either way it’s irrelevant. You can’t get an EV with 300km motorway speeds range for your budget of €5k.

i know that.
i asked when d people think this will occur?

tom1ie

Markcheese wrote: »

I'm gonna be very nosey , what type of work site are heading to ? ( As in ,is a construction site ,city office with no parking ,out of town office with parking .. ) is it the same site every time or does it vary ? )
I assume you get milage for company travel , if you're getting x-amount allowance ,most of that could go off your car finance..
do your company do company cars ? ( No BIK on evs ,might change the maths a bit )
A 3 pin plug with a granny cable for a few hours at your destination would probably get you home easily without stopping en route ..

And the next drama will be with your insignia , when it starts getting up in milage ,and/or starts costing for repairs ,and you consider changing it ..
It'll no longer be " paid for "

site changes quite a lot, and i would have no opportunity for destination charging, as there would be no electricity available where i am going.

mileage for company travel, but that money doesn't need to go off finance now, so i wouldn't want to be paying finance.

no company cars available.

agree re the insignia and future problems which is why i am weighing up options now.

however i do not wish to have a recurring payment every month to fund a car ie a loan, as i dont have one now.

MJohnston

tom1ie wrote: »

150 there and 150 back at least.
multiple sites to visit during the day also.
mileage can easily go above 300km

Right, but like I said, you're not doing 300km in one go all on a motorway.

MJohnston

Where did this €800 a month figure come from btw? You wouldn't be paying anything like that for most EVs via PCP.

tom1ie

MJohnston wrote: »

Right, but like I said, you're not doing 300km in one go all on a motorway.

yeah this is true, but realistically id be depending on the public charging system, and I've read enough threads on here to know that's a no no!
if i had destination charging then i wouldn't be too concerned.

tom1ie

MJohnston wrote: »

Where did this €800 a month figure come from btw? You wouldn't be paying anything like that for most EVs via PCP.

40k loan over 5 years is coming in at 770 pm.
now granted that was on the ccpc website i havent looked at any other options.

Lumen

tom1ie wrote: »

i know that.
i asked when d people think this will occur?

Possibly never.

The only car that can do what you're asking for right now, at typical motorway speed all year round and in all weathers is the Tesla Model S Long Range, Raven version, from 2019.

Even if that ever gets to €5k, the liability of the expensive out-of-warranty drivetrain will be it about as attractive a bangernomics proposition as a....I don't know...Bentley?

Even the Kona 64 will probably lose 15% of range by the time it's sub-10k, which will bring it to around 300km at best, and hardly comfortably.

Future cars may just charge faster at a larger number of charge points and so not need to be equipped with large batteries.

So either you will continue to run a combustion engine, or change the way you use a car.

tom1ie

Lumen wrote: »

Possibly never.

The only car that can do what you're asking for right now, at typical motorway speed all year round and in all weathers is the Tesla Model S Long Range, Raven version, from 2019.

Even if that ever gets to €5k, the liability of the expensive out-of-warranty drivetrain will be it about as attractive a bangernomics proposition as a....I don't know...Bentley?

Even the Kona 64 will probably lose 15% of range by the time it's sub-10k, which will bring it to around 300km at best, and hardly comfortably.

Future cars may just charge faster at a larger number of charge points and so not need to be equipped with large batteries.

So either you will continue to run a combustion engine, or change the way you use a car.

ok. well thanks for answering the question anyway.

MJohnston

tom1ie wrote: »

yeah this is true, but realistically id be depending on the public charging system, and I've read enough threads on here to know that's a no no!
if i had destination charging then i wouldn't be too concerned.

The threads here are largely OTT hyperbole from hardcore early adopters, they aren't really that useful as a window into the day to day reality. Realistically you won't have any worries finding at least one unoccupied and operational fast charger along every motorway in Ireland (and especially so if you can use Tesla superchargers).

You don't even need to rely on fast chargers, my i3 will grab enough off of AC43/22kW chargers in the time it takes for a service station pitstop to add 30-40km of range.

MJohnston

tom1ie wrote: »

40k loan over 5 years is coming in at 770 pm.
now granted that was on the ccpc website i havent looked at any other options.

Yeah but Hire Purchase is generally the worst option. PCP is better for most people, where you're not paying off the entirety of the value of the car, just a 3 year depreciation portion.

Of course, with high amounts of mileage that might not hold true as much.

You also wouldn't be paying in the 40k range either, an ID.3 would be around €32k new OTR.

Lumen

MJohnston wrote: »

The threads here are largely OTT hyperbole from hardcore early adopters, they aren't really that useful as a window into the day to day reality. Realistically you won't have any worries finding at least one unoccupied and operational fast charger along every motorway in Ireland (and especially so if you can use Tesla superchargers).

Not when the stated requirement is 300km a day in a 10-15 year old EV without range anxiety or recharging at public charge points.

This attitude is reminiscent of all enthusiast forums where a common answer to "why doesn't product X do Y?" is "why would you want to do Y? we all do Z and we're quite happy".

It's worth recognising that people are adaptable, but at the same time being told that your requirements are essentially stupid is massively irritating.

Gumbo

tom1ie wrote: »

yeah this is true, but realistically id be depending on the public charging system, and I've read enough threads on here to know that's a no no!
if i had destination charging then i wouldn't be too concerned.

Public charging is a changed area now since pay for charging has come in. You are almost guaranteed to get a Chargepoint nowadays.

MJohnston

Lumen wrote: »

Not when the stated requirement is 300km a day in a 10-15 year old EV without range anxiety or recharging at public charge points.

This attitude is reminiscent of all enthusiast forums where a common answer to "why doesn't product X do Y?" is "why would you want to do Y? we all do Z and we're quite happy".

It's worth recognising that people are adaptable, but at the same time being told that your requirements are essentially stupid is massively irritating.

Nah, don't be silly. Requirements are usually overly simplified goals that have flexibility once someone discusses their specific context. It makes little sense to restrict discussion to the original framing, unless the conversation relates to a broader, general group of people rather than an individual.

Regardless, the post of mine you quoted has nothing to do with that, it's simply my opinion that most people will be able to relatively easily find and access chargers on any given motorway journey. The rhetoric on threads in this forum largely relates to the desire for charging infrastructure to meet future requirements, not present ones.

garo

Lumen wrote: »

Not when the stated requirement is 300km a day in a 10-15 year old EV without range anxiety or recharging at public charge points.

This attitude is reminiscent of all enthusiast forums where a common answer to "why doesn't product X do Y?" is "why would you want to do Y? we all do Z and we're quite happy".

It's worth recognising that people are adaptable, but at the same time being told that your requirements are essentially stupid is massively irritating.

My requirement is a 4000 sq ft A-rated house for under 100k Euros within a 15 minute drive of Dublin city centre. If you don't have anything for me I will continue to live in my poxy shed in the middle of nowhere. (No disrespect to OP but unrealistic expectations will lead to some people here telling you that.)

Lumen

MJohnston wrote: »

Nah, don't be silly. Requirements are usually overly simplified goals that have flexibility once someone discusses their specific context. It makes little sense to restrict discussion to the original framing, unless the conversation relates to a broader, general group of people rather than an individual

Thanks, that's exactly the kind of irritating line of argument I was thinking of.

MJohnston

Lumen wrote: »

Thanks, that's exactly the kind of irritating line of argument I was thinking of.

I must have missed the part where you were the OP.

The J Stands for Jay

Gumbo wrote: »

Car A costs €800 Per month to fuel.
Car B costs €100 per month to fuel.

Either way it’s irrelevant. You can’t get an EV with 300km motorway speeds range for your budget of €5k.

But what could you finance with €700 a month?

AndyBoBandy

McGaggs wrote: »

But what could you finance with €700 a month?

a Tesla Model 3 SR+, €659 per month.

Granted though she'll not do the 300km on motorways in winter (and will just about manage it in summer (if driven at 105km/h))

The J Stands for Jay

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

a Tesla Model 3 SR+, €659 per month.

Granted though she'll not do the 300km on motorways in winter (and will just about manage it in summer (if driven at 105km/h))

Given my mileage for the last 8 months, my potential fuel savings could finance one of those electric scooters.

Gumbo

McGaggs wrote: »

But what could you finance with €700 a month?

No idea. Just using the OP’s €800 fuel bill as a figure.
It’s flexible to be altered to suit what can he wants.

NIMAN

Op is lucky they didn't put such demands on ICE cars relatively speaking , or they would still riding a bike.

tom1ie

garo wrote: »

My requirement is a 4000 sq ft A-rated house for under 100k Euros within a 15 minute drive of Dublin city centre. If you don't have anything for me I will continue I live in my poxy shed in the middle of nowhere. (No disrespect to OP but unrealistic expectations will lead to some people here telling you that.)[/QUOTE

if you read my original post i asked when did we think this would happen.
no need for the attitude. :rolleyes:

tom1ie

Gumbo wrote: »

No idea. Just using the OP’s €800 fuel bill as a figure.
It’s flexible to be altered to suit what can he wants.

did you read the post?
the 800 is the repayments on the loan to get the ev!