Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - Read OP for Mod Warnings

PTH2009 · 15-11-2020 01:44AM

When the lockdown is lifted its so hard to get those lingering thoughts of 'Lockdown 3' is going to be weeks away esp with Dr Tony and NPHET around

This Living wit Covid plan doesn't inspire confidence either

hmmm · 15-11-2020 01:51AM

<Snip.>
Great first post!

By "obsequious drones" I presume you mean the people who are adhering to public health advice, doing their best for their families and the wider community, and helping to make sure we get through this pandemic. Meanwhile there is a smaller group who seem to be terrified of masks, terrified of vaccines and I suspect terrified of the real world in general.

Vaccines, testing etc. will get us out of this next year and allow us to relax restrictions. Asking people to pretend that there isn't a dangerous virus circulating won't. Thankfully if the vaccines are 90% effective we will be in a better place.

storker · 15-11-2020 01:57AM

hmmm wrote: »

Great "first post"!

FYP

charlie14 · 15-11-2020 02:20AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Looking at the deaths, it’s more the over 80s Id be concerned about.

Then that is where we differ. I would have concerns for the 25% of the population that are in the the high risk category.

suicide_circus · 15-11-2020 07:51AM

Compassion has been weaponised.

JRant · 15-11-2020 08:19AM

hmmm wrote: »

Great first post!

By "obsequious drones" I presume you mean the people who are adhering to public health advice, doing their best for their families and the wider community, and helping to make sure we get through this pandemic. Meanwhile there is a smaller group who seem to be terrified of masks, terrified of vaccines and I suspect terrified of the real world in general.

Vaccines, testing etc. will get us out of this next year and allow us to relax restrictions. Asking people to pretend that there isn't a dangerous virus circulating won't. Thankfully if the vaccines are 90% effective we will be in a better place.

Nice sound bites but completely wrong.

The population have been bombarded since March that this virus is "lethal". The facts show that unless you are over 75 then it's no worse than any other seasonal respiratory illness doing the rounds. In fact, for younger people it's a complete non entity, a statistical anomaly.

The population have been doing their part since this began. Unfortunately, the HSE and government have let us all down. Test and trace fell apart at the first hurdle while hospital capacity was ignored during the summer. We had a winter plan announced in mid September when it should have been in action since summer time. Nursing home testing levels were cut and we are seeing the results of that now.

I would say that that based on previous experience, the government and HSE won't be able to use testing and vaccine to lift restrictions because they are just incapable of implementing a plan.

darconio · 15-11-2020 09:13AM

MelbourneMan wrote: »

Hello. The lack of medical knowledge or qualified judgement cannot be allowed to put the health of the population at risk. While there will be a lunatic/anti-establishment/conspiracy fringe, they are negligible.

It is to avoid their misinformation derailing in any numbers, the wider public, from taking the vaccine, that we must now devote ourselves through public information campaigns, education programmes, and leadership from the media, and medical and political establishment.

Avoiding media engaging in a 'balanced' discussion, sensationalist, or two sided examination of something to which there is only one side must be ensured.

This is the typical answer I would expect from a politician that is trying to derail the conversation in order to come out clean from an uncomfortable question.

I'll ask you again, what happens in the long term after you have assumed this covid vaccine?

Before you ask, in the long term I expect to be no less than 5 years

You either know or probably you don't know, in that case I don't expect anybody to force this on the population

average_runner · 15-11-2020 09:16AM

darconio wrote: »

This is the typical answer I would expect from a politician that is trying to derail the conversation in order to come out clean from an uncomfortable question.

I'll ask you again, what happens in the long term after you have assumed this covid vaccine?

Before you ask, in the long term I expect to be no less than 5 years

You either know or probably you don't know, in that case I don't expect anybody to force this on the population

If only people had the same wariness of putting things in their body when it came to booze, smoking, drugs, shtty food, sedentary lifestyle and so on, our hospitals would be empty. Same with driving or other everyday activities.

People's perception of risk is so bizarre and twisted.

There is a lot more damage done every year by simple things like ibuprofen than by vaccines, especially if you consider the benefit of vaccines.

Our parents and grandparents lived in terror of TB and polio. Have any of you ever seen TB or polio in Ireland? (even a doctor would very rarely see TB).

How quickly we forget. Vaccines have been TOO successful for their own good!

darconio · 15-11-2020 09:25AM

charlie14 wrote: »

What is going to hapen with this virus in the long term without vaccines.
Do you think it will just disappear ?

Do people actually know so little about vaccines, or indeed any medical product, that the do not know they have to go through verification by independent bodies, (E.U. it`s the E.M.A. U.S.A. it`s the F.D.A. and so on) on their safety and efficiency claims before they will receive a licence. These vaccines are no different

What happened to the spanish Flu?
Do you really believe the fda and all the bodies you have mentioned are not into this? Do I need to list all the medicament that received a licence but proved to have deadly side-effects? the truth is that pharma companies will make billions out of this supposed cure, but we are just like lab rats, let's give them something and see what happens

average_runner · 15-11-2020 09:40AM

darconio wrote: »

What happened to the spanish Flu?
Do you really believe the fda and all the bodies you have mentioned are not into this? Do I need to list all the medicament that received a licence but proved to have deadly side-effects? the truth is that pharma companies will make billions out of this supposed cure, but we are just like lab rats, let's give them something and see what happens

Sure we do that with our lives every day with choices we make.

Can you show me one vaccine that had cause massive side effects, proper links to the proof?

CruelSummer · 15-11-2020 09:42AM

average_runner wrote: »

If only people had the same wariness of putting things in their body when it came to booze, smoking, drugs, shtty food, sedentary lifestyle and so on, our hospitals would be empty. Same with driving or other everyday activities.

People's perception of risk is so bizarre and twisted.

There is a lot more damage done every year by simple things like ibuprofen than by vaccines, especially if you consider the benefit of vaccines.

Our parents and grandparents lived in terror of TB and polio. Have any of you ever seen TB or polio in Ireland? (even a doctor would very rarely see TB).

How quickly we forget. Vaccines have been TOO successful for their own good!

In all fairness the vaccine breakthrough is brilliant news. But the fact is, it’s just been tested on people over a short amount of time. If it was a regular vaccine, it could hammer the argument that they’ve used the approach before like the Oxford vaccine, and it stacks up.
But being an mRNA vaccine which has never been used on humans before, there will be a risk in taking it. It might be fine, and all will go well. Hopefully this is a medical breakthrough that can help treat many other diseases. But the risk is still there that it’s rushed in my opinion.

Also if the mink strain gets out, it could scupper vaccines effectiveness.

drunkmonkey · 15-11-2020 09:44AM

average_runner wrote: »

Can you show me one vaccine that had cause massive side effects, proper links to the proof?

The law of unintended consequences, pray they don't release a live Covid vaccine..

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/sep/02/vaccine-derived-polio-spreads-in-africa-after-defeat-of-wild-virus

darconio · 15-11-2020 09:49AM

average_runner wrote: »

If only people had the same wariness of putting things in their body when it came to booze, smoking, drugs, shtty food, sedentary lifestyle and so on, our hospitals would be empty. Same with driving or other everyday activities.

People's perception of risk is so bizarre and twisted.

There is a lot more damage done every year by simple things like ibuprofen than by vaccines, especially if you consider the benefit of vaccines.

Our parents and grandparents lived in terror of TB and polio. Have any of you ever seen TB or polio in Ireland? (even a doctor would very rarely see TB).

How quickly we forget. Vaccines have been TOO successful for their own good!

You are listing substances/lifestyles that it has been made public about their side-effects when abused or assumed (class a drugs). Besides it would be my choice to assume/not assume them, or follow a ****ty lifestyle/not follow it : we are aware about the consequences, can you say the same about the vaccine?
How long did it take to develop and successfully test the polio/TB vaccine?

average_runner · 15-11-2020 09:52AM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

The law of unintended consequences, pray they don't release a live Covid vaccine..

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/sep/02/vaccine-derived-polio-spreads-in-africa-after-defeat-of-wild-virus

That article only suggests it, but does not confirm it either.

average_runner · 15-11-2020 09:53AM

darconio wrote: »

You are listing substances/lifestyles that it has been made public about their side-effects when abused or assumed (class a drugs). Besides it would be my choice to assume/not assume them, or follow a ****ty lifestyle/not follow it : we are aware about the consequences, can you say the same about the vaccine?
How long did it take to develop and successfully test the polio/TB vaccine?

Who is forcing you to take the vaccine? It will be a choice.

average_runner · 15-11-2020 09:57AM

CruelSummer wrote: »

In all fairness the vaccine breakthrough is brilliant news. But the fact is, it’s just been tested on people over a short amount of time. If it was a regular vaccine, it could hammer the argument that they’ve used the approach before like the Oxford vaccine, and it stacks up.
But being an mRNA vaccine which has never been used on humans before, there will be a risk in taking it. It might be fine, and all will go well. Hopefully this is a medical breakthrough that can help treat many other diseases. But the risk is still there that it’s rushed in my opinion.

Also if the mink strain gets out, it could scupper vaccines effectiveness.

Mink strain is a risk but we are on our way to winning the battle. Otherwise we will face lock downs every two months

darconio · 15-11-2020 09:59AM

average_runner wrote: »

Who is forcing you to take the vaccine? It will be a choice.

I hope so but by the looks of it traveling and participating to social events will be restricted only to the elected, we "in-valids" will be relegated to the margin of society

growleaves · 15-11-2020 10:01AM

average_runner wrote: »

Who is forcing you to take the vaccine? It will be a choice.

A few posters have outright said or else implied that people who are unvaccinated will or should be effectively barred from every institution and activity in society. Including presumably employment.

However it isn't clear who will support this. People who agree to take a vaccine may not agree to present medical info on demand to commercial entities, institutions etc. Think of the lawsuits that will arise.

average_runner · 15-11-2020 10:02AM

darconio wrote: »

I hope so but by the looks of it traveling and participating to social events will be restricted only to the elected, we "in-valids" will be relegated to the margin of society

Haven't seen that anywhere yet officially?
By the time it will be available to all, it will be well tested and probably 2 years away

average_runner · 15-11-2020 10:10AM

growleaves wrote: »

A few posters have outright said or else implied that people who are unvaccinated will or should be effectively barred from every institution and activity in society. Including presumably employment.

However it isn't clear who will support this. People who agree to take a vaccine may not agree to present medical info on demand to commercial entities, institutions etc. Think of the lawsuits that will arise.

No offence this is boards. There is alot of crazy things said here

pjohnson · 15-11-2020 10:11AM

darconio wrote: »

I hope so but by the looks of it traveling and participating to social events will be restricted only to the elected, we "in-valids" will be relegated to the margin of society

Thats your choice. Dont blame others if YOU choose to put YOURSELF on the margins

darconio · 15-11-2020 10:13AM

average_runner wrote: »

Haven't seen that anywhere yet officially?
By the time it will be available to all, it will be well tested and probably 2 years away

https://loudwire.com/ticketmaster-covid-19-vaccination-negative-test/

So you are saying that that we need to remain into this situation for another 2 years? Lockdown, level 3, lockdown, level 3 .... :eek:, and well tested by who? by in-voluntary test subjects in the mass population that decided to get vaccinated?

average_runner · 15-11-2020 10:18AM

darconio wrote: »

https://loudwire.com/ticketmaster-covid-19-vaccination-negative-test/

So you are saying that that we need to remain into this situation for another 2 years? Lockdown, level 3, lockdown, level 3 .... :eek:, and well tested by who? by in-voluntary test subjects in the mass population that decided to get vaccinated?

Not saying we need to remain this situation.

The over 60's 70's and 80's will take the vaccine.
Once majority of them have it we can open up. U50's wont see it for 2 years maybe, most under 50 will have mild symptoms if they get the virus.

CruelSummer · 15-11-2020 10:20AM

average_runner wrote: »

Haven't seen that anywhere yet officially?
By the time it will be available to all, it will be well tested and probably 2 years away

There have been many posters on here unfortunately, suggesting participation in society is based on taking the vaccine. This could backfire as an approach however, as the perception it's being forced on people will not help its cause in my opinion.

average_runner · 15-11-2020 10:23AM

CruelSummer wrote: »

There have been many posters on here unfortunately, suggesting participation in society is based on taking the vaccine. This could backfire as an approach however, as the perception it's being forced on people will not help its cause in my opinion.

Are we kids now. Poster X said this so it must be true.

The fact is no one knows what the countries will do yet, not even the countries themselves.

Only thing that could happen is your travel insurance wont cover u for covid.

Stormyteacup · 15-11-2020 10:48AM

CruelSummer wrote: »

In all fairness the vaccine breakthrough is brilliant news. But the fact is, it’s just been tested on people over a short amount of time. If it was a regular vaccine, it could hammer the argument that they’ve used the approach before like the Oxford vaccine, and it stacks up.
But being an mRNA vaccine which has never been used on humans before, there will be a risk in taking it. It might be fine, and all will go well. Hopefully this is a medical breakthrough that can help treat many other diseases. But the risk is still there that it’s rushed in my opinion.

Also if the mink strain gets out, it could scupper vaccines effectiveness.

If it works safely then the good news is the adjustment for a new strain, and subsequent production and rollout of mRNA vaccines is much faster than traditional vaccines.

I’d like to see it administered to an older age group proportionate to their risk alongside a slow build up in natural immunity amongst those to whom it’s relatively harmless. Although to do that it looks like we would be under ridiculous restrictions for a while yet if government decisions follow form to date.

The unknown is an adverse autoimmune response to the vaccine - and seeing as this is what has caused the most damage in young people with serious illness after contacting Covid, I would worry that the vaccine may cause side-effects in healthy young people that could be of a scale similar to observed serious effects of Covid on otherwise healthy people.

15-11-2020 10:52AM

This “pandemic” has been very strange. On the actual illness side of things, it has been pretty clear since March/April that this is nowhere near as serious as originally feared.

Unfortunately, Covid became political. Hysteria spread throughout the media and on social media in particular and a narrative was formed that 1 life is more important than the economy.

Governments then based their policies around this narrative. Let’s keep Covid deaths and cases as low as we possibly can became the mantra.

How well a country is doing in 2020 seems to be based on Covid alone. No other issues are relevant. Ireland is doing “very well” we hear as 20% are unemployed, we are officially in recession and elderly people are rotting away at home alone, not allowed to see their families.

A vaccine is not going to stop 80+ year olds with major underlying conditions from dying. But it will allow us to remove the word Covid from the death cert.

And again, in 2020, that is the single most important thing. The vaccine will allow us to move forward simply because it makes it looks like we done something.

We’ll probably start recording the deaths more responsibly after the vaccine.

It’s all been political since May. People like Tony pushing his no alcohol agendas. Political parties acting like public health is their top priority. People working from home and saving a fortune pushing for more lockdowns. People pushing for changes to society that they’d personally benefit from. Media using fear to sell papers and get clicks.

All done using the lie “looking to save lives”.

This is what happens when the world becomes too soft, too PC, and everybody wants to look like they are doing good.

drunkmonkey · 15-11-2020 11:00AM

average_runner wrote: »

Not saying we need to remain this situation.

The over 60's 70's and 80's will take the vaccine.
Once majority of them have it we can open up. U50's wont see it for 2 years maybe, most under 50 will have mild symptoms if they get the virus.

Health and care workers need to all take it. Only about 50% of them take the flue vaccine, wait until you try and force it on them the unions will imploded.
The people I know that got it were all a result of picking it up in hospital and spreading it from there when they came home and ended back in hospital again.

Cork2021 · 15-11-2020 11:11AM

Personally think that it’s level 3 with some tweaks. You’ll see restaurants open but without being aloud serve alcohol. And other businesses open except for the virus ridden pubs that have been closed for 8 months(it’s all their fault for everything)

Kermit.de.frog · 15-11-2020 11:38AM

Deleted User wrote: »

This “pandemic” has been very strange. On the actual illness side of things, it has been pretty clear since March/April that this is nowhere near as serious as originally feared.

Unfortunately, Covid became political. Hysteria spread throughout the media and on social media in particular and a narrative was formed that 1 life is more important than the economy.

Governments then based their policies around this narrative. Let’s keep Covid deaths and cases as low as we possibly can became the mantra.

How well a country is doing in 2020 seems to be based on Covid alone. No other issues are relevant. Ireland is doing “very well” we hear as 20% are unemployed, we are officially in recession and elderly people are rotting away at home alone, not allowed to see their families.

A vaccine is not going to stop 80+ year olds with major underlying conditions from dying. But it will allow us to remove the word Covid from the death cert.

And again, in 2020, that is the single most important thing. The vaccine will allow us to move forward simply because it makes it looks like we done something.

We’ll probably start recording the deaths more responsibly after the vaccine.

It’s all been political since May. People like Tony pushing his no alcohol agendas. Political parties acting like public health is their top priority. People working from home and saving a fortune pushing for more lockdowns. People pushing for changes to society that they’d personally benefit from. Media using fear to sell papers and get clicks.

All done using the lie “looking to save lives”.

This is what happens when the world becomes too soft, too PC, and everybody wants to look like they are doing good.

So simple and yet so wrong.

You don't see the bigger picture.

The Mayo Clinic explains it in bite size so you can understand more fully.

Organ damage caused by COVID-19

Organs that are affected by COVID-19 include:

Heart. Imaging tests taken months after recovery from COVID-19 have shown lasting damage to the heart muscle, even in people who experienced only mild COVID-19 symptoms. This may increase the risk of heart failure or other heart complications in the future.

Lungs. The type of pneumonia often associated with COVID-19 can cause long-standing damage to the tiny air sacs (alveoli) in the lungs. The resulting scar tissue can lead to long-term breathing problems.

Brain. Even in young people, COVID-19 can cause strokes, seizures and Guillain-Barre syndrome — a condition that causes temporary paralysis. COVID-19 may also increase the risk of developing Parkinson's disease and Alzheimer's disease.

This is not just about grandma, it's about longer term damage as well. It is unknown as to how much life span could be cut from a young person today. This is a fundamental reason for the reaction you see by governments.

But, of course, you won't take that in because "free-dumb" or whatever...

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

Comments

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - Read OP for Mod Warnings