Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

Mr. Karate

charlie14 wrote: »

That is pretty typical of the lack of knowledge/anti-vaccine comments on this thread.

My Body. My Choice.

Str8outtaWuhan

charlie14 wrote: »

What is going to hapen with this virus in the long term without vaccines.
Do you think it will just disappear ?


Do people actually know so little about vaccines, or indeed any medical product, that the do not know they have to go through verification by independent bodies, (E.U. it`s the E.M.A. U.S.A. it`s the F.D.A. and so on) on their safety and efficiency claims before they will receive a licence. These vaccines are no different

Pandemrix got a licence :eek:

hmmm

darconio wrote: »

Besides were they not saying that even if a vaccine is found it will be a long time before everything goes back to normal? So why really?

I think most people will prefer to take a tested vaccine than take their chances with Covid complications. They'll also know it's the best way to protect people in their families who may be vulnerable. It's a no-brainer as Covid will probably continue to circulate for a long time to come.

A vaccine will take time to roll out, and the speed it makes a difference will likely depend on the number of people who take it. Thankfully if it is 90% effective at reducing disease that's a great start.

The reality is that the world isn't going to hang around waiting for people who are too afraid to get the vaccine. Restrictions need to be lifted, and we'll have to open up while protecting people from potential carriers of the disease.

MelbourneMan

Mr. Karate wrote: »

My Body. My Choice.

Hello. This is true, and you will likely be able to exercise it.

But it will be few who will put up with a lifestyle of continued restricted movements or confinement, while the rest of the population returns to normal life, work, group activities, travel, sports and leisure, socialising, entertainments, etc.

Ha Long Bay

mikekerry wrote: »

Have a look at this
https://instagram.com/tv/CHiXqTkH0yx/?igshid=coii2v178axh…;

Why post links to stuff like this?


"The HighWire, a radio show hosted by film producer and anti-vaccine activist Del Bigtree, pushed the unsupported claim that COVID-19 created in a lab and suggested it may have had something to do with vaccine development. A slew of conspiracies are also cropping up on Facebook groups geared toward vaccine skepticism."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/anti-vaxxer-fear-coronavirus-vaccine/

dalyboy

hmmm wrote: »

I think most people will prefer to take a tested vaccine than take their chances with Covid complications. They'll also know it's the best way to protect people in their families who may be vulnerable. It's a no-brainer as Covid will probably continue to circulate for a long time to come.

A vaccine will take time to roll out, and the speed it makes a difference will likely depend on the number of people who take it. Thankfully if it is 90% effective at reducing disease that's a great start.

The reality is that the world isn't going to hang around waiting for people who are too afraid to get the vaccine. Restrictions need to be lifted, and we'll have to open up while protecting people from potential carriers of the disease.

The bit in bold.
That’s a bit of a paradox don’t you think ?
If “the people” have been vaccinated why would anyone care about potential carriers of the disease ?

JRant

hmmm wrote: »

I think most people will prefer to take a tested vaccine than take their chances with Covid complications. They'll also know it's the best way to protect people in their families who may be vulnerable. It's a no-brainer as Covid will probably continue to circulate for a long time to come.

A vaccine will take time to roll out, and the speed it makes a difference will likely depend on the number of people who take it. Thankfully if it is 90% effective at reducing disease that's a great start.

The reality is that the world isn't going to hang around waiting for people who are too afraid to get the vaccine. Restrictions need to be lifted, and we'll have to open up while protecting people from potential carriers of the disease.

I think most people will take the vaccine to stop the COVID restrictions rather than the virus. That's just my take on it though.

hmmm

dalyboy wrote: »

The bit in bold.
That’s a bit of a paradox don’t you think ?
If “the people” have been vaccinated why would anyone care about potential carriers of the disease ?

Vaccinations don't provide 100% protection. The Pfizer vaccine seems to be giving 90% protection which is considered exceptional. We also don't know how well vaccines will work in older people, and certain people (e.g. on immunosuppressant drugs) may not be able to take the vaccines at all.

So if you have an nursing home full of vaccinated people and one person with the disease arrives in, some of the people in there can still be infected.

The more people who get vaccinated, the less reservoirs of the disease we'll have and the fewer outbreaks we'll have in the future.

charlie14

mikekerry wrote: »

Have a look at this
https://instagram.com/tv/CHiXqTkH0yx/?igshid=coii2v178axh…;

I got as far as the 90% efficacy from 94 volunteers and reckoned I had better for doing than listening to another anti vaccine kook.
You obviously listened, so did he happen to mention those 94 were the first 94 to receive the vaccine or why he thought the results would be any discernibly different on the percentage efficacy from the remainder of over 43K in that trial seeing as it was the same vaccine for all of them ?

charlie14

john4321 wrote: »

Why post links to stuff like this?


"The HighWire, a radio show hosted by film producer and anti-vaccine activist Del Bigtree, pushed the unsupported claim that COVID-19 created in a lab and suggested it may have had something to do with vaccine development. A slew of conspiracies are also cropping up on Facebook groups geared toward vaccine skepticism."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/anti-vaxxer-fear-coronavirus-vaccine/

Glad now I didn`t waste my time listening to the expert vaccine knowledge of someone as eminent on the subject as a film producer.

hmmm

charlie14 wrote: »

I got as far as the 90% efficacy from 94 volunteers and reckoned I had better for doing than listening to another anti vaccine kook.
You obviously listened, so did he happen to mention those 94 were the first 94 to receive the vaccine or why he thought the results would be any discernibly different on the percentage efficacy from the remainder of over 43K in that trial seeing as it was the same vaccine for all of them ?

Every time I see someone telling me to watch a video my eyes glaze over. What is it with the long and very boring videos that these people post? Do people really sit through and watch these things from end to end?

The point of testing 40,000 people is to generate events which can be used to monitor how well the vaccine is working. They don't expect all 40,000 to get infected. We'd be here for years waiting for 40,000 infections to generate data. And it's going to be very obvious when you jab 20,000 people on one side (*), and give 20,000 people a placebo, that when 86 people in the placebo group get infected and only 8 in the vaccine group that the vaccine is working.

Ha Long Bay

charlie14 wrote: »

Glad now I didn`t waste my time listening to the expert vaccine knowledge of someone as eminent on the subject as a film producer.

Film producer of Vaxxed: From Cover-Up to Catastrophe

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaxxed

"The film was directed by discredited anti-vaccine activist Andrew Wakefield"

hmmm

I see that Prozac is now potentially being looked at as a Covid treatment (no joke). Perhaps we could administer a Prozac and then the vaccine afterwards to those who are scared?

Why anyone would be happier getting Covid than a tested vaccine is beyond me. Don't get this virus if you can avoid it.

https://twitter.com/pjputh/status/1322808163704446981

charlie14

Str8outtaWuhan wrote: »

Pandemrix got a licence :eek:

There can be side effects from any drug, but do you know of any vaccine that in 8 months has killed over 1.2 Million people ?



Statistically ( and there is no evidence that Pandemrix caused narcolepsy) you would have a higher chance of being killed by a donkey than developing narcolepsy from Pandemrix.

charlie14

Mr. Karate wrote: »

My Body. My Choice.

MelbourneMan answered that with much more elegance and practicality than I could ever hope to do.

BeefeaterHat

hmmm wrote: »

I think most people will prefer to take a tested vaccine than take their chances with Covid complications. They'll also know it's the best way to protect people in their families who may be vulnerable. It's a no-brainer as Covid will probably continue to circulate for a long time to come.

A vaccine will take time to roll out, and the speed it makes a difference will likely depend on the number of people who take it. Thankfully if it is 90% effective at reducing disease that's a great start.

The reality is that the world isn't going to hang around waiting for people who are too afraid to get the vaccine. Restrictions need to be lifted, and we'll have to open up while protecting people from potential carriers of the disease.

Do you really see restrictions lasting until late 2021, like the independent are saying? Or do you think things will get back to normal in the next 6 months? Because if this carries on past summer 2021 at the latest I'm out of here.

hmmm

BeefeaterHat wrote: »

Do you really see restrictions lasting until late 2021, like the independent are saying? Or do you think things will get back to normal in the next 6 months? Because if this carries on past summer 2021 at the latest I'm out of here.

I don't know, but the US are saying that they think everyone who wants a vaccine will be able to get one by May of next year. Hopefully Europe will be on a similar timeline. Moderna results are due soon, maybe next week, if they are good that'll add another billion potential doses of vaccine in 2021.

sabat

hmmm wrote: »

I see that Prozac is now potentially being looked at as a Covid treatment (no joke). Perhaps we could administer a Prozac and then the vaccine afterwards to those who are scared?

Why anyone would be happier getting Covid than a tested vaccine is beyond me. Don't get this virus if you can avoid it.

https://twitter.com/pjputh/status/1322808163704446981

I have no idea what the fúck that scene is, but there's no way that's from a normal 20 something person "reinfected" with covid and nothing else. I'm not taking the "vaccine" because it's a whole new class of medicine that works completely differently to normal vaccines and it's supposedly for an illness that isn't even dangerous for me. End of story.

hmmm

sabat wrote: »

I have no idea what the fúck that scene is, but there's no way that's from a normal 20 something person "reinfected" with covid and nothing else. I'm not taking the "vaccine" because it's a whole new class of medicine that works completely differently to normal vaccines and it's supposedly for an illness that isn't even dangerous for me. End of story.

PE in the tweet is a pulmonary embolism, a blod clot effectively, a known side effect for some Covid patients.

It's your decision if you want to run the risks of catching and spreading Covid, but the world won't revolve around you next year.

FintanMcluskey

charlie14 wrote: »

There can be side effects from any drug, but do you know of any vaccine that in 8 months has killed over 1.2 Million people ?

The vaccine won’t save the lives of many 84 year old Charlie so we need to understand that.

The vaccine is not a key to the kingdom of Tír na nÓg.

Old people will die at the same rate, it will be just be a different irrelevant cause.

Hopefully the vaccine will prevent hospitals becoming overwhelmed in Ireland with covid patients. (They will still be overwhelmed but that’s irrelevant once it’s not covid)

Also, let’s hope we don’t start testing and isolating health care workers for other seasonal respiratory illness’s or we are never getting out of this mess

dalyboy

sabat wrote: »

I have no idea what the fúck that scene is, but there's no way that's from a normal 20 something person "reinfected" with covid and nothing else. I'm not taking the "vaccine" because it's a whole new class of medicine that works completely differently to normal vaccines and it's supposedly for an illness that isn't even dangerous for me. End of story.

It looks like the same ole tricks they were airing in Italy Feb/mar are alive and well. Shock and awe and terrorise the public to submission.

BeefeaterHat

hmmm wrote: »

I don't know, but the US are saying that they think everyone who wants a vaccine will be able to get one by May of next year. Hopefully Europe will be on a similar timeline. Moderna results are due soon, maybe next week, if they are good that'll add another billion potential doses of vaccine in 2021.

Yeah I'm hopeful myself. I've been following vaccine news since April it's been the only thing keeping me sane most of the time. I was saying to people I know that we could have a vaccine by the end of 2020 and most of them scoffed at me. Along with the joy of going back to normal I'll also relish the feeling of smug vindication I'll get off it too

charlie14

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

The vaccine won’t save the lives of many 84 year old Charlie so we need to understand that.

The vaccine is not a key to the kingdom of Tír na nÓg.

Old people will die at the same rate, it will be just be a different irrelevant cause.

Hopefully the vaccine will prevent hospitals becoming overwhelmed in Ireland with covid patients. (They will still be overwhelmed but that’s irrelevant once it’s not covid)

Also, let’s hope we don’t start testing and isolating health care workers for other seasonal respiratory illness’s or we are never getting out of this mess

How do you know it will not save the life of 84 year olds, or is it that you believe there should be no efforts made to prolong life when a certain age is reached ?
Why use 84 as the cut off point, why not 65 ?
That would take out a lot who are susceptible to this virus and save money on pension payments as well.

acequion

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

The vaccine won’t save the lives of many 84 year old Charlie so we need to understand that.

The vaccine is not a key to the kingdom of Tír na nÓg.

Old people will die at the same rate, it will be just be a different irrelevant cause.

Hopefully the vaccine will prevent hospitals becoming overwhelmed in Ireland with covid patients. (They will still be overwhelmed but that’s irrelevant once it’s not covid)

Also, let’s hope we don’t start testing and isolating health care workers for other seasonal respiratory illness’s or we are never getting out of this mess

That's the whole joke of it Fintan. We have a bunch of career politicians who're actually not very good at their jobs but who cares once the money is good and nice little numbers and then big pensions await.:rolleyes: They couldn't give a proverbial about people's health once they're seen to be doing the right thing, great expression here in Ireland this "seen to be doing" and this right thing is whatever NPHET dictate.

So I'm banking on them backing off once Covid is "seen to be" under control. The shambles will still continue in public health care but they'll all be patting themselves on the back and the public might even get a clap.

But until they back off you would have to be nervous about what they might latch on to next.

FintanMcluskey

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

The vaccine won’t save the lives of many 84 year old Charlie so we need to understand that.

The vaccine is not a key to the kingdom of Tír na nÓg.

Old people will die at the same rate, it will be just be a different irrelevant cause.

Hopefully the vaccine will prevent hospitals becoming overwhelmed in Ireland with covid patients. (They will still be overwhelmed but that’s irrelevant once it’s not covid)

Also, let’s hope we don’t start testing and isolating health care workers for other seasonal respiratory illness’s or we are never getting out of this mess

You read these threads for long enough and you’d swear people in nursing homes were training for the next Olympics or planning a wedding in 2022.

The sad reality is that people generally go to nursing homes because they are extremely old and unhealthy and the burden is too much on the family. Lots need constant care.

A vaccine for Covid is not going to prevent the inevitable.

But once Covid is not present, we will go back to treating these deaths in a proportionate way.

charlie14

Deleted User wrote: »

You read these threads for long enough and you’d swear people in nursing homes were training for the next Olympics or planning a wedding in 2022.

The sad reality is that people generally go to nursing homes because they are extremely old and unhealthy and the burden is too much on the family. Lots need constant care.

A vaccine for Covid is not going to prevent the inevitable.

But once Covid is not present, we will go back to treating these deaths in a proportionate way.

You somehow appear to believe all those highly susceptible to this vurus in Ireland are in nursing homes.
Of the 700,000 alone in this country 65 and over only 30,000 are in nursing homes.

normanoffside

MelbourneMan wrote: »

Hello.

charlie14

charlie14 wrote: »

You somehow appear to believe all those highly susceptible to this vurus in Ireland are in nursing homes.
Of the 700,000 alone in this country 65 and over only 30,000 are in nursing homes.

Looking at the deaths, it’s more the over 80s Id be concerned about.

normanoffside

MelbourneMan wrote: »

Hello.

sabat

hmmm wrote: »

PE in the tweet is a pulmonary embolism, a blod clot effectively, a known side effect for some Covid patients.

It's your decision if you want to run the risks of catching and spreading Covid, but the world won't revolve around you next year.

So is that photo of where this patient below was treated or was this the second ever reinfection in the US? Amazing isn't it? That an astonishingly rare medical incident on the other side of the world would be used to frighten Irish people? It reminds of that teenager who supposedly had no underlying conditions being carted around Irish media a couple of months ago. He was probably the sole person that age in the entire country to get that sick yet he was presented as being typical.

https://www.thejournal.ie/covid-19-reinfection-case-in-the-us-5231439-Oct2020/