Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

charlie14

darconio wrote: »

What happened to the spanish Flu?
Do you really believe the fda and all the bodies you have mentioned are not into this? Do I need to list all the medicament that received a licence but proved to have deadly side-effects? the truth is that pharma companies will make billions out of this supposed cure, but we are just like lab rats, let's give them something and see what happens

My first (and really only thought) is that the news on vaccines appears to have raised the levels of attempts at misinformation and conspiracy theories by anti-vaxxers to new levels of desperation.

_Kaiser_

nofools wrote: »

Tldr

First point proven wrong by other countries and simply points to the relative success of the measures we took.

If you can't be bothered reading, I can't be bothered taking your response seriously

nofools

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

If you can't be bothered reading, I can't be bothered taking your response seriously

I read some more and you asked a question about my side's fears and motivations.

Personally i lost my job, 2020 has been absolutely ****e and I want it all to end as soon as possible. In my view, the status quo here are acting to keep it going for longer and I genuinely believe we could have a much better quality of life already if wasn't for this brand of self entitled ignorance for everyone to do what they want.

nofools

growleaves wrote: »

Well its just if you put things in their proper context they appear differently.

Does the average person even know that influenza can give you heart and brain damage?

A well-known computer programmer suffers physically-induced panic attacks for the rest of his life after a bout of influenza.

I've heard of glandular fever sufferers having 18 months of fatigue.

And on my my second point? You know the ****load of people dying daily.

Acceptable in your book?

Ironhead93

darconio wrote: »

I hope so but by the looks of it traveling and participating to social events will be restricted only to the elected, we "in-valids" will be relegated to the margin of society

If this actually happens I would honestly start thinking the NWO Bill Gates theorists were onto something. It's mandatory vaccination without it being in legislation, Orwellian stuff.

charlie14

CruelSummer wrote: »

In all fairness the vaccine breakthrough is brilliant news. But the fact is, it’s just been tested on people over a short amount of time. If it was a regular vaccine, it could hammer the argument that they’ve used the approach before like the Oxford vaccine, and it stacks up.
But being an mRNA vaccine which has never been used on humans before, there will be a risk in taking it. It might be fine, and all will go well. Hopefully this is a medical breakthrough that can help treat many other diseases. But the risk is still there that it’s rushed in my opinion.

Also if the mink strain gets out, it could scupper vaccines effectiveness.

I would be more inclined with the mink strain situation to look it at as what can happen if you let this virus do it`s own thing without a means of at least attempting to control it`s spread.

zerosugarbuzz

growleaves wrote: »

Well its just if you put things in their proper context they appear differently.

Does the average person even know that influenza can give you heart and brain damage?

A well-known computer programmer suffers physically-induced panic attacks for the rest of his life after a bout of influenza.

I've heard of glandular fever sufferers having 18 months of fatigue.

That brings me back. I had glandular fever when I was 19 and had 18 months of severe fatigue. I actually dropped out of college over it at the time.

_Kaiser_

nofools wrote: »

I read some more and you asked a question about my side's fears and motivations.

Personally i lost my job, 2020 has been absolutely ****e and I want it all to end as soon as possible. In my view, the status quo here are acting to keep it going for longer and I genuinely believe we could have a much better quality of life already if wasn't for this brand of self entitled ignorance for everyone to do what they want.

The reality at this point is that the only thing we are really protecting is the ineptitude of the HSE and politicians.

The health service has been a mess for decades. Every year we have reports of it being overrun, people on trolleys for days etc. Despite ever increased budget funding and then emergency top-ups when they overrun, nothing has changed

The fear of these people in the summer/autumn was that even a mild increase of CV-19 admissions would bring the entire house of cards tumbling down - exposing the waste and mismanagement for what it is.

THAT is what the current restrictions are about.. Holohan covering his ass, weak Government TD's doing likewise (so both can blame the other regardless of how it turns out) - and the general public caught in the middle.

It's a good thing that CV-19 ISN'T as deadly as was feared, or we really WOULD be in trouble!

growleaves

nofools wrote: »

And on my my second point? You know the ****load of people dying daily.

Acceptable in your book?

I'm not convinced that economic embargoes and forced social isolation make a large difference, and I consider these "methods" ethically dodgy.

I do not believe that catastrophic mass death has been averted.

I'm aware of the theories of causality and logic that the lockdown is based on so need to re-explain it.

zerosugarbuzz

nofools wrote: »

And on my my second point? You know the ****load of people dying daily.

Acceptable in your book?

Why are the pro lockdown people always cursing?

nofools

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

The reality at this point is that the only thing we are really protecting is the ineptitude of the HSE and politicians.

The health service has been a mess for decades. Every year we have reports of it being overrun, people on trolleys for days etc. Despite ever increased budget funding and then emergency top-ups when they overrun, nothing has changed

The fear of these people in the summer/autumn was that even a mild increase of CV-19 admissions would bring the entire house of cards tumbling down - exposing the waste and mismanagement for what it is.

THAT is what the current restrictions are about.. Holohan covering his ass, weak Government TD's doing likewise (so both can blame the other regardless of how it turns out) - and the general public caught in the middle.

It's a good thing that CV-19 ISN'T as deadly as was feared, or we really WOULD be in trouble!

Sure the health service has always been a mess i agree with you.

The statistics point to the success of our approach regardless.

suicide_circus

Probably already mentioned but Republic of Ireland Midfielder Alan Browne played 90 minutes of professional football in ROI's 3-0 loss to England the other day, all while being covid-19 positive.

nofools

zerosugarbuzz wrote: »

Why are the pro lockdown people always cursing?

I am Irish,turn of phrase, vernacular

I am anti lockdown btw. We just disagree on how to get out of it.

nofools

growleaves wrote: »

I'm not convinced that economic embargoes and forced social isolation make a large difference, and I consider these "methods" ethically dodgy.

I do not believe that catastrophic mass death has been averted.

I'm aware of the theories of causality and logic that the lockdown is based on so need to re-explain it.

Equally i am aware of the economic fears and think they lack any real basis in the case of the Irish economy (for now).

I haven't seen evidence of a suicide epidemic and i am conscious that loss of a family member can be a catalyst.

I am aware of how our neighbours in the uk have done and view our government as much more competent relatively despite their failings.

zerosugarbuzz

nofools wrote: »

I am Irish,turn of phrase, vernacular

I am anti lockdown btw. We just disagree on how to get out of it.

Despite your many posts, I have no idea what your theory on how to get out of this is if you now say you are anti lockdown.

BeefeaterHat

nofools wrote: »

It isn't. Just another crank on boards telling how us to live when they don't know how themselves. If they followed their own advice they wouldn't be here all day everyday talking the same old waffle.

I find it a bit ironic you're accusing someone of telling people how to live when you said previously you wanted anti lockdown people not to be allowed to speak publicly.

BeefeaterHat

nofools wrote: »

Why so defensive?

I am not going to get upset by words on a screen, i imagine kermit is similar,

Truth and reason have a very soothing effect on the soul.

Try it sometime

You don't get offended by words on a screen. Like when you accused me on Friday of gloating at you losing your job, a job I didn't know you lost or had in the first place. As if I know the ins and outs of your personal life

nofools

growleaves wrote: »

I'm not convinced that economic embargoes and forced social isolation make a large difference, and I consider these "methods" ethically dodgy.

.

Go look at the graphs on worldometer,all countries, one graph..the difference between countries that locked down early or hard or used other measures in a no excuses way are all flatlined compared to huge exponential flatten/decline then more exponential growth as the second wave emerges.

If you have any honesty you can't not be convinced that crude measures like lockdowns do work. It jumps off the page.

They do work, they do have large obvious downsides, there are better ways that the horse has already bolted on.

nofools

zerosugarbuzz wrote: »

Despite your many posts, I have no idea what your theory on how to get out of this is if you now say you are anti lockdown.

Very simple

We take our medicine.

We have a crude tool that works, looks like the EU is wising up on free movement soon.

nofools

BeefeaterHat wrote: »

I find it a bit ironic you're accusing someone of telling people how to live when you said previously you wanted anti lockdown people not to be allowed to speak publicly.

I never said that. I said they should be harshly criticised and mostly shamed by society.

Like drink drivers

hmmm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

- Over 8 months in and we have less than 2000 deaths "from" CV-19. The fear of ten times that number or more hasn't materialised, yet some refuse to recognise that for what it is - extremely positive, and a sign that the virus is not as deadly as was feared in the early stages

That's a very long post, but your opening statement is clearly false. The relatively low number of deaths is due to the measures we have taken to reduce spread. If we let this virus spread with no restrictions, we'd have more deaths.

That's so obvious a point that if you're saying it's not the case then it's very hard to take the rest of your post seriously.

nofools

BeefeaterHat wrote: »

You don't get offended by words on a screen. Like when you accused me on Friday of gloating at you losing your job, a job I didn't know you lost or had in the first place. As if I know the ins and outs of your personal life

Any chance you might debate the points and not my personal life?

I wasn't offended by you if that was your concern, i was more offended by your terrible argument that people paying mortgages are more important than renters.

nofools

hmmm wrote: »

That's a very long post, but your opening statement is clearly false. The relatively low number of deaths is due to the measures we have taken to reduce spread. If we let this virus spread with no restrictions, we'd have more deaths.

That's so obvious a point that if you're saying it's not the case then it's very hard to take the rest of your post seriously.

Exactly and it is not even a hypothetical argument. There is clear as day real life evidence from other places to disprove the point.

BeefeaterHat

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

If you can't be bothered reading, I can't be bothered taking your response seriously

I'll never understand why people join discussion forums and then proceed to act indignant if people disagree with them.

BeefeaterHat

nofools wrote: »

Any chance you might debate the points and not my personal life?

I wasn't offended by you if that was your concern, i was more offended by your terrible argument that people paying mortgages are more important than renters.

No you accused me of mocking you losing your job in a half assed attempt to shut me up. You brought your personal life into the discussion in the first place

nofools

BeefeaterHat wrote: »

I'll never understand why people join discussion forums and then proceed to act indignant if people disagree with them.

I agree with you.

I feel like you are following me around being indigent. I made loads of recent arguments that you don't want to engage with but are highlighting things from a few days ago where you feel you can get some smartarse jibe in.

walus

nofools wrote: »

Sure the health service has always been a mess i agree with you.

The statistics point to the success of our approach regardless.

Wait a couple of years until the statistic shows you that prioritising Covid over other diseases caused tens of thousands of secondary deaths. Only then you will discover how successful the current strategy was.

nofools

BeefeaterHat wrote: »

No you accused me of mocking you losing your job in a half assed attempt to shut me up. You brought your personal life into the discussion in the first place

Can we get back to the topic at hand now?

nofools

walus wrote: »

Wait a couple of years until the statistic shows you that prioritising Covid over other diseases caused tens of thousands of secondary deaths. Only then you will discover how successful the current strategy was.

The fear of what might maybe happen vs the fear of what is happening

Show it to me, how many deaths and by what cause?

Back it up, state your case concretely

walus

Ironhead93 wrote: »

If this actually happens I would honestly start thinking the NWO Bill Gates theorists were onto something. It's mandatory vaccination without it being in legislation, Orwellian stuff.

Bill et. al have been heavily investing in this new vaccine technology (mRNA) since before 2015. There is no better moment than this to capitalise on this investment.