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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Comments

  • #7832
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    john4321 wrote: »
    So why do you bring up increasing ICU capacity in that case?

    So we can stop locking down and saying ICU capacity is the reason.

    We need to be able to support 1000+ cases a day without sh*tting the bed


  • #7833
    KindOfIrish
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 454 ✭✭KindOfIrish


    Tweet
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    Elon Musk
    @elonmusk
    ·
    Nov 13
    Something extremely bogus is going on. Was tested for covid four times today. Two tests came back negative, two came back positive. Same machine, same test, same nurse. Rapid antigen test from BD.

    :D:D:D


  • #7834
    JRant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,163 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    So we can stop locking down and saying ICU capacity is the reason.

    We need to be able to support 1000+ cases a day without sh*tting the bed

    That will need a complete change in approach though. We had around 300 in hospital with COVID and less than 40 in ICU when we were back in to lockdown. Even if we doubled our ICU capacity I'm sure Dr Lockdown would be able to find some "forecast" to say we would fill it twice as quick.

    Being honest, the numbers don't seem to matter. When they are at a moderate level we need to lockdown, when they are single digits we can't open up for months "because reasons".

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • #7835
    Stormyteacup
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 999 ✭✭✭Stormyteacup


    john4321 wrote: »
    How many extra ICU beds? How many doctors and nurses would be required to staff these beds and are they available?

    Its very easy throw out a line like this but you always hit limits.

    There is a point here. I agree there is a limit to how many ICU beds you create during an even mild pandemic - as in, it doesn't make economic sense to create 400 extra ICU with dedicated staff that need not be pulled from other departments, if the need is temporary.

    Nurses and student nurses should have had their salary increased, and doctors have a path to consultancy without leaving the country - but this would need to be upheld long-term.

    I suspect a calculation has been made somewhere about borrowing and increasing debt short-term as opposed to increasing yearly spend on health services.

    We've been told so often how difficult it is to train and retain hospital staff short term, and how it's impossible to further protect care homes, that we accept it unquestioningly.

    Of course it can be done, we need a cull at administrative level of HSE - yes this is messy with existing contracts but the plan should have been increased spending on hospital staff, training, and protective procedures immediately, coupled with ongoing reduction of spending on administration to recoup in the coming years.

    We were in a bad way before Covid and this years budget increase for health will just be thrown into the same black hole.


  • #7836
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    JRant wrote: »
    That will need a complete change in approach though. We had around 300 in hospital with COVID and less than 40 in ICU when we were back in to lockdown. Even if we doubled our ICU capacity I'm sure Dr Lockdown would be able to find some "forecast" to say we would fill it twice as quick.

    Being honest, the numbers don't seem to matter. When they are at a moderate level we need to lockdown, when they are single digits we can't open up for months "because reasons".

    Agree.
    Ireland don’t need a 5 level plan, a 2 level plan would be more appropriate.

    Lockdown and heavy restrictions but not quite lockdown.

    Regardless of numbers or the mildness of Covid, we look likely to remain this way until the whole country is vaccinated.


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  • #7837
    JRant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,163 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Agree.
    Ireland don’t need a 5 level plan, a 2 level plan would be more appropriate.

    Lockdown and heavy restrictions but not quite lockdown.

    Regardless of numbers or the mildness of Covid, we look likely to remain this way until the whole country is vaccinated.

    That's exactly where we have been since March, with a significant proportion of the population having been at Level 3 or above for 8 months now, bar a brief window where we were allowed sit indoors but they out a stop to that quickly.

    The whole approach is a muddled mess. We seemed to be moving in a better direction while Dr Glynn was CMO but "6 shooter" Holohan wasn't long changing tac once he returned.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • #7838
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,599 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Agree.
    Ireland don’t need a 5 level plan, a 2 level plan would be more appropriate.

    Lockdown and heavy restrictions but not quite lockdown.

    Regardless of numbers or the mildness of Covid, we look likely to remain this way until the whole country is vaccinated.

    We needed a 5 level plan to try different levels and see what heavy restrictions produce something around a steady state. We figured out that level 3 or level 3+ produces a r number close to one.

    So I propose our new 5 level plan
    Level 2 for short periods of celebration when national restrictions wouldn't be abided by (ie Christmas)
    Level 3
    Level 3+ (close the pubs)
    Level 3++(No household visits)
    Level 5


  • #7839
    JRant
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,163 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »
    We needed a 5 level plan to try different levels and see what heavy restrictions produce something around a steady state. We figured out that level 3 or level 3+ produces a r number close to one.

    So I propose our new 5 level plan
    Level 2 for short periods of celebration when national restrictions wouldn't be abided by (ie Christmas)
    Level 3
    Level 3+ (close the pubs)
    Level 3++(No household visits)
    Level 5

    If the plan is rolling lockdowns and it appears this is the approach they choose, then it should be 2 levels (fully open and lockdown). Because clearly the other restrictions aren't working if we need to lockdown anyway.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • #7840
    Birdie Num Num
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭Birdie Num Num


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    So we can stop locking down and saying ICU capacity is the reason.

    We need to be able to support 1000+ cases a day without sh*tting the bed

    Why? A few posts back you said ‘cases don’t really matter’ Do they matter or not?


  • #7841
    pjohnson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,080 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    PTH2009 wrote: »
    How the hell do you cancel Christmas ??

    So deploy the army collect all Christmas decorations/food etc from shops burn it all, go house too house searching and confiscating anything to do with Xmas, ban all Christmas ads and no Christmas songs whatsoever. No work/school holidays

    ****ing Ebenezer Scrooge will be proud

    Christ thats extreme even for this thread :pac:


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  • #7842
    road_high
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,870 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    JRant wrote: »
    That will need a complete change in approach though. We had around 300 in hospital with COVID and less than 40 in ICU when we were back in to lockdown. Even if we doubled our ICU capacity I'm sure Dr Lockdown would be able to find some "forecast" to say we would fill it twice as quick.

    Being honest, the numbers don't seem to matter. When they are at a moderate level we need to lockdown, when they are single digits we can't open up for months "because reasons".

    Like junkies- they’re absolutely hooked on lockdowns. They’re not interested in anything else that would involve any actual work on their part or lateral thinking.


  • #7843
    Captain_Crash
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,003 ✭✭✭Captain_Crash


    I’m seeing more negative articles appearing regarding the country’s response than positive articles these days

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/arid-40081700.html


  • #7844
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Birdie Num Num wrote: »
    Why? A few posts back you said ‘cases don’t really matter’ Do they matter or not?

    To me, no.

    But to the hysterical, permanently outraged they do matter.

    Look at the hysteria on here when we had 1200 cases. And guess what the main symptom was? No symptoms at all.

    We should be doing whatever it takes to live with this. Accepting cases and deaths is part of that. Increasing ICU would be part of that as well.

    But we’d clearly rather put half a million out of work and pray the vaccine works and everyone takes it.


  • #7845
    nofools
    Closed Accounts Posts: 608 ✭✭✭nofools


    manniot2 wrote: »
    Who is suggesting it’s allowed to run wild? For the hundred time, proportionality in response is all most reasonable people want.

    The lazy minded, blind to the consequences "OPEN UP" posse here.


  • #7846
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,248 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    Nurses running out to cars in Naples to treat people with oxygen .
    I think i am ok with staying within the guidelines here . We are doing fine and yes the care home are a tragedy and I am saddened for them . But we can only support them by keeping it out of the community


  • #7847
    nofools
    Closed Accounts Posts: 608 ✭✭✭nofools


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    To me, no.

    But to the hysterical, permanently outraged they do matter.

    Look at the hysteria on here when we had 1200 cases. And guess what the main symptom was? No symptoms at all.

    We should be doing whatever it takes to live with this. Accepting cases and deaths is part of that. Increasing ICU would be part of that as well.

    But we’d clearly rather put half a million out of work and pray the vaccine works and everyone takes it.

    If we did actually entertain this juvenile nonsense we would be ****ed.

    Economic suicide too


  • #7848
    nofools
    Closed Accounts Posts: 608 ✭✭✭nofools


    road_high wrote: »
    Like junkies- they’re absolutely hooked on lockdowns. They’re not interested in anything else that would involve any actual work on their part or lateral thinking.

    Some people are hooked on stubborn ignorance and living a selfish spoiled life.


  • #7849
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Captain_Crash wrote: »
    I’m seeing more negative articles appearing regarding the country’s response than positive articles these days

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/arid-40081700.html

    I would like to see level 5 for Xmas. It would help to accelerate the loss of public support which will ultimately be better for the country.


  • #7850
    RobitTV
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,517 ✭✭✭RobitTV


    https://twitter.com/bmj_latest/status/1327288644391067648


  • #7851
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    nofools wrote: »
    If we did actually entertain this juvenile nonsense we would be ****ed.

    Economic suicide too

    Lol, so opening business is bad for the economy...

    Thought you claimed to know a bit about economics?


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  • #7852
    nofools
    Closed Accounts Posts: 608 ✭✭✭nofools


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    So we can stop locking down and saying ICU capacity is the reason.

    We need to be able to support 1000+ cases a day without sh*tting the bed

    Dig ourselves a huge hole to try crawl out of.

    Great plan.


  • #7853
    nofools
    Closed Accounts Posts: 608 ✭✭✭nofools


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Lol, so opening business is bad for the economy...

    Thought you claimed to know a bit about economics?

    Much more than you yes if you think that makes any sense yes.

    It is about delayed gratification to avoid absolutely bombing everything.

    The 1000+ cases you just proposed would quickly get to 2k and then 4k, you are entering into the zone where you completely lose control.

    Consumer confidence through the floor at those levels even if everything was open.

    Open doors, empty seats, empty seats plus operating costs = failed business

    Wave after wave of that for how ever long it takes to get a cure. No business can survive that.

    Boarded up towns, deep depression.

    Stitch in times saves nine


  • #7854
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,727 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    nofools wrote: »
    Dig ourselves a huge hole to try crawl out of.

    Great plan.

    Great insight as always.


  • #7855
    boggerman1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭boggerman1


    Captain_Crash wrote: »
    I’m seeing more negative articles appearing regarding the country’s response than positive articles these days

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/arid-40081700.html

    Good to see Mcconkey and Ryan being called out.


  • #7856
    sabat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,896 ✭✭✭sabat


    RobitTV wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/bmj_latest/status/1327288644391067648

    Oh really? "The British Medical Journal" What kind of lunatic conspiracy site is that?


  • #7857
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,624 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    Captain_Crash wrote: »
    I’m seeing more negative articles appearing regarding the country’s response than positive articles these days

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/columnists/arid-40081700.html

    “life is never going to back to 2019“ Sam Mcmonkey

    There is a risk of that though, at least until an adult conversation happens about how people surpassing life expectancy and dying is not particularly unusual.


  • #7858
    Captain_Crash
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,003 ✭✭✭Captain_Crash


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    “life is never going to back to 2019“ Sam Mcmonkey

    There is a risk of that though, at least until an adult conversation happens about how people surpassing life expectancy and dying is not particularly unusual.

    Couldn’t agree more! For me the simple fact is life will go back to normal when the vast majority of people decide they want to go back to normal! It’s going to happen eventually, hopefully sooner rather than later but it will happen and no amount of bullsh*t on prime time will change that!


  • #7859
    bucketybuck
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,948 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    We are doing fine and yes the care home are a tragedy and I am saddened for them . But we can only support them by keeping it out of the community

    No. That is not the "only" thing that could have been done.


  • #7860
    AssetBacked2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 232 ✭✭AssetBacked2


    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-hospital-numbers-falling-but-warning-of-unpredictable-nature-of-virus-1.4409628?mode=amp

    Hospital numbers falling but don't celebrate as the virus is unpredictable. Are they ****ing serious? It's good news full stop and to say at this stage it is unpredictable, nearly a year into the crisis, is unforgiveable.


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  • #7861
    Seweryn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,506 ✭✭✭Seweryn


    Captain_Crash wrote: »
    Couldn’t agree more! For me the simple fact is life will go back to normal when the vast majority of people decide they want to go back to normal! It’s going to happen eventually, hopefully sooner rather than later but it will happen and no amount of bullsh*t on prime time will change that!
    Well said. I remember reading comments in March and April when the vast majority of people were understandably scared by the propaganda even though the true numbers were never backing up the lies we have been hearing. As the time is passing more and more people are waking up. It is difficult with the lies coming from all mainstream media. But hopefully one day the common sense wins.


This discussion has been closed.
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