Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

US Presidential Election 2020 Thread II - Judgement Day(s)

1…179180182184185…239

Comments

  • #5432
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,855 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    Brussels Sprout wrote: »
    ...but it's not really a close election - only in the contorted, anachronistic world of the electoral college.

    At the same time as that 71k margin is being whittled down by votes coming in in Arizona the overall total margin is increasing by millions in California and New York. Millions of people are disenfranchised by the Electoral College. The USA is the only country where their main election by-passes all of their major cities.

    Just because it's the convention doesn't make it any less democratic.
    The EC isn't perfect, but it was designed to do the exact opposite of what you think is wrong with it. It's a form of proportional representation where the smaller states are supposed to be represented in a way that prevents them from being completely blown out by the big cities and states.

    The system needs updating though and there are parts of the US like Puerto Rico that get no say whatsoever. Other than the popular vote of course.


  • #5433
    weisses
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,781 ✭✭✭weisses


    The Raging Bile Duct wrote: »
    Can't ever see AOC ever getting a run at president. She is too much of a turn off for the moderates that can flip between Dem and Rep. Some Democrats believed the high visibility of AOC and the squad was a big problem for Biden's campaign.

    To me she looks like a perfect example of the "american dream"


  • #5434
    VinLieger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,057 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    weisses wrote: »
    To me she looks like a perfect example of the "american dream"


    Its funny that the republicans and their supporters are such big fans of pulling yourself up by your bootstraps etc yet with AOC who literally did just that they constantly complain that she used to work behind a bar


  • #5435
    breezy1985
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,524 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    ExMachina1000 wrote: »
    She would fit in nicely with pbp/ rise here I think.
    But she certainly isn't suitable for the upper echelons of American politics


    Thats absolute nonsense she is well able for her current job which is in the upper echelons of US politics and will do way more in life than any average PBP politician


  • #5436
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    While the DNC remains relatively centrist, and the schism between it and the progressive wing stays hostile, there's simply no way someone like AOC would get the votes to put her as Candidate Cortez. Maybe if the ideological needle in the democrats swung more to the left, maybe. Sanders tried twice now and failed to cosy up to the Pelosi strata of the Dems, why would it be thought AOC could do better?

    And that's before you get to "electability". AOC is hated by a large swath of the America voting public, rightly or wrongly. She's better off staying local and fighting for New York than comprising on a national level - it's a loselose scenario


  • Advertisement
  • #5437
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,238 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    pixelburp wrote: »
    While the DNC remains relatively centrist, and the schism between it and the progressive wing stays hostile, there's simply no way someone like AOC would get the votes to put her as Candidate Cortez. Maybe if the ideological needle in the democrats swung more to the left, maybe. Sanders tried twice now and failed to cosy up to the Pelosi strata of the Dems, why would it be thought AOC could do better?

    And that's before you get to "electability". AOC is hated by a large swath of the America voting public, rightly or wrongly. She's better off staying local and fighting for New York than comprising on a national level - it's a loselose scenario

    It will be instructive to see what becomes of the house leadership position. While the Dems won the Presidency, I don't feel they can ignore their failure again at other levels. Just in NC, there's a marked difference between the vote total for Gov. Cooper and the other statewide candidates.

    How much longer can the Democrats ignore the evidence that the progressive platform is a winning one ?


  • #5438
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,855 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    AbusesToilets wrote: »
    It will be instructive to see what becomes of the house leadership position. While the Dems won the Presidency, I don't feel they can ignore their failure again at other levels. Just in NC, there's a marked difference between the vote total for Gov. Cooper and the other statewide candidates.

    How much longer can the Democrats ignore the evidence that the progressive platform is a winning one ?
    That and the obvious question as to why the Republicans hate her so much. I suspect that they fear her and her policies. From a European viewpoint, she's about bog standard centre-left. But she always seems extremely well prepared, knows what she's talking about and can drill down on stuff to a very granular level. In short, she's a professional politician who's well versed in how to get elected and how to leverage her visibility. I suspect that more and more politicians will follow her example.


  • #5439
    Water John
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,264 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    The Presidency of the US is wherever Biden is, it's not the WH. He can do it from Wilmington, Delaware if he wishes.


  • #5440
    Mr.Nice Guy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,643 ✭✭✭✭Mr.Nice Guy


    I had a read of the letter George Bush left for Bill Clinton in '93 when he was about to take charge...

    https://twitter.com/Razarumi/status/1325485021629714433


    Then it dawned on me that Trump meanwhile will not only refuse to write such a gracious letter, but will likely spend every waking day tweeting invective towards Biden and undermining him at every opportunity.


  • #5441
    OhHiMark
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,096 ✭✭✭OhHiMark


    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    He could save 130,000 lives during the rest of his term by following medical advice and promoting masks.

    https://www.dw.com/en/us-could-see-half-a-million-coronavirus-deaths-by-end-of-winter-study-warns/a-55379763

    But he's still president and if he stepped down then Pence gets the job and I can't see any US politician refusing that.

    Conspiracy theory would be that the first thing Pence would do is give Trump a presidential pardon. But that won't stop the civil or local stuff.

    Can he be pardoned for something he hasn't been convicted of yet?


  • Advertisement
  • #5442
    TomOnBoard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,109 ✭✭✭TomOnBoard


    OhHiMark wrote: »
    Can he be pardoned for something he hasn't been convicted of yet?

    Federal stuff, yes!


  • #5443
    For Forks Sake
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,878 ✭✭✭✭For Forks Sake


    TomOnBoard wrote: »
    Federal stuff, yes!

    Unfortuately for him, its a lot of individual States are going after him, and a pardon won't get him off the hook for those


  • #5444
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,855 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    OhHiMark wrote: »
    Can he be pardoned for something he hasn't been convicted of yet?
    Yeah. As was pointed out earlier, Ford basically pardoned Nixon for any crimes he committed against America while in office. A genuine gold-plated get out of jail free card.

    But two things have to happen. Trump to resign and let Pence take over and Pence to actually do it. Is there honour amongst thieves? ;)


  • #5445
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,885 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    OhHiMark wrote: »
    Can he be pardoned for something he hasn't been convicted of yet?

    He can. Nixon was too. It’s a joke. There’s even a line of thinking that he can pardon himself.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • #5446
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,855 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    Brian? wrote: »
    He can. Nixon was too. It’s a joke. There’s even a line of thinking that he can pardon himself.
    Would be fun if he did that only to find out later that it doesn't work that way. :D


  • #5447
    abff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,874 ✭✭✭abff


    prawnsambo wrote: »
    Would be fun if he did that only to find out later that it doesn't work that way. :D

    Yes, but it wouldn’t just be an ordinary pardon. It would be a tremendous pardon, possibly the greatest pardon ever. On a par at least with any pardon granted by Lincoln.


  • #5448
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,885 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    I’ve had a few whiskeys and I’m getting a little sentimental. So forgive me.

    There’s a some wonderful things about America and some awful things about America. Joe Biden represents the wonderful things, mostly. Decent human being who worked his way up to being POTUS.

    Kamala Harris too. The child of 2 immigrants who’s now Veep.

    It’s wonderful to be reminded of that now. There’s hope for the US. No matter what anyone says it’s the most influential nation in the world. And it’s a positive influence again.

    Night all.

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • #5449
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,909 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Brian? wrote: »
    I’ve had a few whiskeys and I’m getting a little sentimental. So forgive me.

    There’s a some wonderful things about America and some awful things about America. Joe Biden represents the wonderful things, mostly. Decent human being who worked his way up to being POTUS.

    Kamala Harris too. The child of 2 immigrants who’s now Veep.

    It’s wonderful to be reminded of that now. There’s hope for the US. No matter what anyone says it’s the most influential nation in the world. And it’s a positive influence again.

    Night all.
    The trouble is it's just as if not more divided than ever. If you had 5 people in your house trying to decide on what food to get and 2 of the votes were to kill and eat you it wouldn't be a great result.


  • #5450
    Water John
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,264 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Yang moving to Georgia to help the Senate run off campaign. Stacey Abrahms on with Jake Tapper CNN earlier. She's a powerhouse.


  • #5451
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,855 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    There were some discrepancies found in Fulton County. Taken very seriously and investigated. Trump got all excited, but apparently was a scanning problem with about 340 votes and resulted in a bigger margin for Biden.


  • Advertisement
  • #5452
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 55,176 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    The Ocasio-Cortez stuff is pure fantasy. The US is a long way away from electing someone like her to President.

    Democrats should enjoy their victory, Trump is gone and that's something that the majority will celebrate all around the world. But they do need to reflect. Trump got over 70million votes, the election was close enough, and if anyone thinks that those 70+ million people are all immigrant hating, racist redneck types then they are absolutely deluded.

    Evidently there is a very significant chunk of Americans who backed what Trump was trying to do. Some of these people are the stereotype that we've heard so much about, and they're a lost cause. But I will not believe that they represent the majority. Democrats absolutely must take time to understand why they don't appeal to these people, otherwise in 4 years time it's going to be the same story. Biden can talk about unity all he wants, but he isn't going to win these people over with words.

    We would have to be idiots to not try and understand why anti-establishment politics has seen a real surge in numbers.


  • #5453
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,855 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    awec wrote: »
    The Ocasio-Cortez stuff is pure fantasy. The US is a long way away from electing someone like her to President.

    Democrats should enjoy their victory, Trump is gone and that's something that the majority will celebrate all around the world. But they do need to reflect. Trump got over 70million votes, the election was close enough, and if anyone thinks that those 70+ million people are all immigrant hating, racist redneck types then they are absolutely deluded.

    Evidently there is a very significant chunk of Americans who backed what Trump was trying to do. Some of these people are the stereotype that we've heard so much about, and they're a lost cause. But I will not believe that they represent the majority. Democrats absolutely must take time to understand why they don't appeal to these people, otherwise in 4 years time it's going to be the same story. Biden can talk about unity all he wants, but he isn't going to win these people over with words.

    We would have to be idiots to not try and understand why anti-establishment politics has seen a real surge in numbers.
    Quite a significant number of Latinos - specifically Cubans and Venezuelans were spooked by the 'leftist and socialist' labels that the Democrats were painted with. For the very good reason that it was such political systems that they and their families fled from in the first place. That's an issue with messaging and policy that the Democrats need to address.


  • #5454
    breezy1985
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,524 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    awec wrote: »
    The Ocasio-Cortez stuff is pure fantasy. The US is a long way away from electing someone like her to President.

    Democrats should enjoy their victory, Trump is gone and that's something that the majority will celebrate all around the world. But they do need to reflect. Trump got over 70million votes, the election was close enough, and if anyone thinks that those 70+ million people are all immigrant hating, racist redneck types then they are absolutely deluded.

    Evidently there is a very significant chunk of Americans who backed what Trump was trying to do. Some of these people are the stereotype that we've heard so much about, and they're a lost cause. But I will not believe that they represent the majority. Democrats absolutely must take time to understand why they don't appeal to these people, otherwise in 4 years time it's going to be the same story. Biden can talk about unity all he wants, but he isn't going to win these people over with words.

    We would have to be idiots to not try and understand why anti-establishment politics has seen a real surge in numbers.


    5 million more in the popular vote and about 76 in the electoral college isnt actually as close as it originally looked like it was going to be.


  • #5455
    What.Now
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 337 ✭✭What.Now


    prawnsambo wrote: »
    Yeah. As was pointed out earlier, Ford basically pardoned Nixon for any crimes he committed against America while in office. A genuine gold-plated get out of jail free card.

    But two things have to happen. Trump to resign and let Pence take over and Pence to actually do it. Is there honour amongst thieves? ;)

    Was that ever challenged or was it a case of just let him go so we don't have to deal with it?


  • #5456
    TomOnBoard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,109 ✭✭✭TomOnBoard


    What.Now wrote: »
    Was that ever challenged or was it a case of just let him go so we don't have to deal with it?

    Never really challenged by the politicians. However, the People reacted when Ford went to the Polls. He lost a huge amount of support from the public that ultimately led to Jimmy Carter's Presidency.


  • #5457
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,855 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    What.Now wrote: »
    Was that ever challenged or was it a case of just let him go so we don't have to deal with it?
    No. Although it almost certainly lost Ford the next election and lost a lot of Republican seats as well.


  • #5458
    V8 Interceptor
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,332 ✭✭✭V8 Interceptor


    StringerBell wrote: »
    Your first paragraph, thanks. I don't see how that opinion would get you in trouble or burned at the stake anywhere even by people who disagree with you. The second paragraph though can get into murky water because even if someone accepts that perhaps Biden is in cognitive decline the obvious comparison to trump will not reflect well on trump. So lets not go there? So you think trump was good for the world outside of the US then more so than bad and you think that Biden will be worse for the rest of the world. Can you flesh that out a little bit more for me? What way has the world become a better place outside the US due to him other than the not starting a new war which you have mentioned already and how do you see Biden having a negative impact when he takes his position in January?
    I'm afraid I can't thrash it out any further because that last reply got me a two day ban. We'll have to leave it there.
    StringerBell wrote: »
    He won't last long though, its kinda like the election. I'm curious to see how many posts he manages to get in before they all get deleted by the mighty ban hammer and disappear forever, likes trumps leads did. We were at 6 at the time of posting, I'll have the over/under at 11

    In response to your question I was banned subsequently.


  • #5459
    murpho999
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,792 ✭✭✭✭murpho999


    Brussels Sprout wrote: »
    ...but it's not really a close election - only in the contorted, anachronistic world of the electoral college.

    At the same time as that 71k margin is being whittled down by votes coming in in Arizona the overall total margin is increasing by millions in California and New York. Millions of people are disenfranchised by the Electoral College. The USA is the only country where their main election by-passes all of their major cities.

    Just because it's the convention doesn't make it any less democratic.

    It's not really close in the electoral college votes either and will pretty much reflect the popular vote.

    It was more how this election panned out and was slower than normal due to postal voting that made it seem close.

    The electoral college votes are related to population so I don't see your point.


  • #5460
    V8 Interceptor
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,332 ✭✭✭V8 Interceptor


    breezy1985 wrote: »
    5 million more in the popular vote and about 76 in the electoral college isnt actually as close as it originally looked like it was going to be.

    When's the last time a Dem didn't get the popular vote?

    NY & CA have huge populations.


  • Advertisement
  • #5461
    Water John
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,264 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    V8 Interceptor wrote: »
    When's the last time a Dem didn't get the popular vote?

    NY & CA have huge populations.

    Two countries US and UK where the popular vote quite often doesn't tally with who's governing. This creates an unsustainable tension.


Advertisement