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Irish Archbishops call for Catholics to be allowed to attend Mass

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Comments

  • #152
    GarIT
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭GarIT


    Geuze wrote: »
    Parishes don't make profits, as they are not for-profit private sector firms.

    The same goes for dioceses.

    The same goes for the GAA.

    These are clubs, churches, etc. They do not make profits

    They may make a surplus some years, yes.

    But any surplus is re-invested.

    We do not charge them corporation tax on profits, as they do not earn profits.

    That's just calling things different names to make them seem less wrong. Earning more.money than your costs is a profit, it is a surplus too.

    The GAA is a bit different, when it makes more money than costs high ranking staff give themselves large bonuses to make the books show a loss. The Vatican on the other hand reinvests as you call it, in assets that it then claims are untouchable.

    They don't pay tax because they are a religions organisation not because they don't make a profit.


  • #153
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Beasty wrote: »
    All this shows is that the Catholic Church believe they are above all of this. Sod the rest of us, but the church must do what it wants to how it wants to. They seriously still believe they are entitled to avoid applying the rules the rest of us are expected to (and we can all shout we are "special" in some way, so the restrictions re not for us)?

    Agree totally and well said. A more cynical person than me pointed out to me that a lot of this is about money, as if the churches are closed...

    And the church SHOULD be setting an example to the rest of us. Should be leading by example. I know that in many places priests are doing a great work of visiting and comforting. That is their role now. Much needed and valued.

    I used to be a regular attender until illness made me housebound. Faith is not all about attending mass. It is about faith, and prayer and belief. And all of those things are stronger for me than when I was going to church.

    They need to be focussing on feeding their flock in different ways. Helping us to cope not rebelling against safeguards.

    As for mass as a social occasion? We have all lost that.. No special treatment should be being sought.

    And so many lovely masses online.

    As Jesus taught.. "Render to Caesar that which is Caesar's, to God that which is God's " He taught to respect secular law and honour and obey it.

    Beasty; thank you!


  • #154
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Geuze wrote: »
    Think carefully about this sentence.

    Think very carefully.

    Note that Ethiopia have an Air Force, with 75 aircraft.

    Think about that.

    If there are any "starving children" in Ethiopia, and I don't know if there are, then that is entirely the choice of the Ethiopian Government, and nothing to do with what chair the Pope sits on.

    There is absolutely no link whatsoever between the furniture in the Vatican and the plight of children in Africa.

    There is a link between the governance of African countries and their population's welfare.

    A basic command by Jesus. " Feed the hungry and clothe the naked."


  • #155
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    John Hutton wrote: »
    Receipt of Communion, and other Sacraments, are however.

    Once in a lifetime is actually surely enough/ For something so all-powerful . And I am being very serious not joking! And they are not the sum total of being a catholic or a Christian .

    These ar times when we all need to reassess what we are doing in the light of deepest humanity and care for others.

    EVen a few in a large building for an hour?

    and the sacrament can be taken to folk at home, and often is. I remember one ol d man being given it to take home to his sick wife


  • #156
    GarIT
    Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭GarIT


    Graces7 wrote: »
    Agree totally and well said. A more cynical person than me pointed out to me that a lot of this is about money, as if the churches are closed...

    And the church SHOULD be setting an example to the rest of us. Should be leading by example. I know that in many places priests are doing a great work of visiting and comforting. That is their role now. Much needed and valued.

    I used to be a regular attender until illness made me housebound. Faith is not all about attending mass. It is about faith, and prayer and belief. And all of those things are stronger for me than when I was going to church.

    They need to be focussing on feeding their flock in different ways. Helping us to cope not rebelling against safeguards.

    As for mass as a social occasion? We have all lost that.. No special treatment should be being sought.

    And so many lovely masses online.

    As Jesus taught.. "Render to Caesar that which is Caesar's, to God that which is God's " He taught to respect secular law and honour and obey it.

    Beasty; thank you!

    Of course priests shouldn't be visiting and comforting. That's how the virus spreads. We don't have the legislation in place but when we do any priest that does this should spend some time in mount joy to make them realise the type of scumbag doing this makes them at the moment.

    A priest visiting people at the moment is as good for their community as the local heroin dealer.


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  • #157
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 24,240 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Geuze wrote: »
    Think carefully about this sentence.

    Think very carefully.

    Note that Ethiopia have an Air Force, with 75 aircraft.

    Think about that.

    If there are any "starving children" in Ethiopia, and I don't know if there are, then that is entirely the choice of the Ethiopian Government, and nothing to do with what chair the Pope sits on.

    There is absolutely no link whatsoever between the furniture in the Vatican and the plight of children in Africa.

    There is a link between the governance of African countries and their population's welfare.


    Well the vast majority of those planes and helicopters are 70s Russian models that they bought because Somalia were invading which the have tried more than once so its also seriously lazy to link military spending to starving children in Africa.

    You might want to think carefully, very carefully about what you say


  • #158
    John Hutton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭John Hutton


    Graces7 wrote: »
    Once in a lifetime is actually surely enough/ For something so all-powerful . And I am being very serious not joking! And they are not the sum total of being a catholic or a Christian .

    These ar times when we all need to reassess what we are doing in the light of deepest humanity and care for others.

    EVen a few in a large building for an hour?

    and the sacrament can be taken to folk at home, and often is. I remember one ol d man being given it to take home to his sick wife
    Assisting at Mass and receiving the sacraments is essential. For Catholics, and in Catholic teaching, this is not a debate. Watching on the TV, while it has some merits, is not assisting at Mass.



    Cases are falling in the north despite no ban on worship. I can understand having a ban for a limited time on the maximum level, level 5 for us, but a ban at level 3 is ridiculous.


  • #159
    John Hutton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭John Hutton


    Graces7 wrote: »
    A basic command by Jesus. " Feed the hungry and clothe the naked."
    The Catholic Church is the largest non government provider of healthcare in the world. Not to mention all the various other Catholic charities at work all across the world who are "feeding the hungry and clothing the naked".


  • #160
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,846 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    John Hutton wrote: »
    The Catholic Church is the largest non government provider of healthcare in the world. Not to mention all the various other Catholic charities at work all across the world who are "feeding the hungry and clothing the naked".

    Yeah, we saw how that worked out here.

    Looking after all those "fallen women". :rolleyes:

    I know a girl who had a kid here years ago and as the baby was been born, a nun was by her side calling her a whore amongst other names.

    The crime of having a kid out of wedlock.

    I guess she was one of the lucky ones who didn't end up in one of their gulags.


  • #161
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 24,240 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    John Hutton wrote: »
    The Catholic Church is the largest non government provider of healthcare in the world. Not to mention all the various other Catholic charities at work all across the world who are "feeding the hungry and clothing the naked".


    Only if you convert though


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  • #162
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    John Hutton wrote: »
    Assisting at Mass and receiving the sacraments is essential. For Catholics, and in Catholic teaching, this is not a debate. Watching on the TV, while it has some merits, is not assisting at Mass.



    Not with the current dangers.

    This kind of legalistic dogmatism destroys the Church.

    And it is very much a debate. Within the Church as well as outside. Especially now when the Sunday " obligation" has already been dispensed with because of covid and the risks.

    I know the Catholic church and its teachings inside out and every which way and there is far more leeway than you seem to think. Far more.

    The Body and Blood of Jesus Christ are pure and effective for eternity.


  • #163
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    GarIT wrote: »
    Of course priests shouldn't be visiting and comforting. That's how the virus spreads. We don't have the legislation in place but when we do any priest that does this should spend some time in mount joy to make them realise the type of scumbag doing this makes them at the moment.

    A priest visiting people at the moment is as good for their community as the local heroin dealer.

    Eejit! Please look at how this is done. It is effected safely and with total effective care. lol.. :eek: Your blind prejudice is astounding!


  • #164
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    John Hutton wrote: »
    The Catholic Church is the largest non government provider of healthcare in the world. Not to mention all the various other Catholic charities at work all across the world who are "feeding the hungry and clothing the naked".

    Very revealing that you pick one sentence from all my post and ignore the rest.

    NB We are bidden feed and clothe in secret and not boast about it. " For then your father in heaven will reward you. " If you boast hen you have already bee rewarded by men, Jesus says.

    And all RC gives is a drop in the ocean set against all they have;. it is pennies to them.

    I have actually never heard a priest talk as you do.


  • #165
    Jim_Hodge
    Registered Users Posts: 10,397 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    GarIT wrote: »
    Of course priests shouldn't be visiting and comforting. That's how the virus spreads. We don't have the legislation in place but when we do any priest that does this should spend some time in mount joy to make them realise the type of scumbag doing this makes them at the moment.

    A priest visiting people at the moment is as good for their community as the local heroin dealer.

    At least the priests around here agree. The monthly home visits have been cancelled. They see what needs doing, or not as the case may be.
    Our priests aren't in agreement with the bishops on reopening churches to public worship at the moment either.


  • #166
    John Hutton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭John Hutton


    Graces7 wrote: »
    John Hutton wrote: »
    Assisting at Mass and receiving the sacraments is essential. For Catholics, and in Catholic teaching, this is not a debate. Watching on the TV, while it has some merits, is not assisting at Mass.



    Not with the current dangers.

    This kind of legalistic dogmatism destroys the Church.

    And it is very much a debate. Within the Church as well as outside. Especially now when the Sunday " obligation" has already been dispensed with because of covid and the risks.

    I know the Catholic church and its teachings inside out and every which way and there is far more leeway than you seem to think. Far more.

    The Body and Blood of Jesus Christ are pure and effective for eternity.
    If you think this, you don't know half as much as you think. You might have protestant notions and not agree with it, which is fair enough, but the Catholic teaching is clear.


  • #167
    John Hutton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭John Hutton


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    Yeah, we saw how that worked out here.

    Looking after all those "fallen women". :rolleyes:

    I know a girl who had a kid here years ago and as the baby was been born, a nun was by her side calling her a whore amongst other names.

    The crime of having a kid out of wedlock.

    I guess she was one of the lucky ones who didn't end up in one of their gulags.
    Are you saying that all catholic charities and hospitals etc. are like magdalene laundaries?


    You cant on the one hand give out that the Church do not help, and then on the other say that they should not.


  • #168
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,846 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    John Hutton wrote: »
    Are you saying that all catholic charities and hospitals etc. are like magdalene laundaries?


    You cant on the one hand give out that the Church do not help, and then on the other say that they should not.

    I'd rather see a criminal organisation that has been deeply involved in raping kids, protecting rapists, kidnapping women and enslaving them being outlawed.


  • #169
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 24,240 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    John Hutton wrote: »
    Are you saying that all catholic charities and hospitals etc. are like magdalene laundaries?


    You cant on the one hand give out that the Church do not help, and then on the other say that they should not.


    Theres always a price with the church. They help in exchange for obedience and power


  • #170
    John Hutton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭John Hutton


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    I'd rather see a criminal organisation that has been deeply involved in raping kids, protecting rapists, kidnapping women and enslaving them being outlawed.
    So you are calling for the outlawing of a religion and the (imprisonment, banishment, "reeducation" a la China) of its members based on the actions of a small minority of the billion plus members (that's today, obviously many more over the past two millennia)?

    Attitudes like yours are bigoted, and constitute a stated wish to do away with a fundamental human right.


  • #171
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 24,240 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    John Hutton wrote: »
    So you are calling for the outlawing of a religion and the (imprisonment, banishment, "reeducation" a la China) of its members based on the actions of a small minority of the billion plus members (that's today, obviously many more over the past two millennia)?

    Attitudes like yours are bigoted, and constitute a stated wish to do away with a fundamental human right.


    Lad no one is believing your faux humanitarian bull. You and your buddies in the Iona institute and the Vatican could not give a toss about fundamental human rights


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  • #172
    John Hutton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭John Hutton


    breezy1985 wrote: »
    Lad no one is believing your faux humanitarian bull. You and your buddies in the Iona institute and the Vatican could not give a toss about fundamental human rights
    I'm not the one saying a religion should be outlawed.


  • #173
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 24,240 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    John Hutton wrote: »
    I'm not the one saying a religion should be outlawed.


    For what they done in Ireland they should have been banned here. Stuff was banned for less


  • #174
    feargale
    Registered Users Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭feargale


    breezy1985 wrote: »
    For what they done in Ireland they should have been banned here. Stuff was banned for less

    Some Musllims have done bad things too. The response of the Chinese government is to exterminate every trace of Musslim Uighur culture including their language and their religion. If you haven't been too busy spreading your scattergun bigotry you may have become aware by tv etc of the horrendous bullying and persecution to which those poor people have been subjected in China. You are in good company.


  • #175
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 24,240 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    feargale wrote: »
    Some Musllims have done bad things too. The response of the Chinese government is to exterminate every trace of Musslim Uighur culture including their language and their religion. If you haven't been too busy spreading your scattergun bigotry you may have become aware by tv etc of the horrendous bullying and persecution to which those poor people have been subjected in China. You are in good company.


    Not in Ireland I said Ireland. Stop deflecting by saying whoever done whatever wherever none of it makes what the RC church done in Ireland not evil


  • #176
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,846 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    John Hutton wrote: »
    So you are calling for the outlawing of a religion and the (imprisonment, banishment, "reeducation" a la China) of its members based on the actions of a small minority of the billion plus members (that's today, obviously many more over the past two millennia)?

    Attitudes like yours are bigoted, and constitute a stated wish to do away with a fundamental human right.

    Oh no, somebody is pointing out the criminality in my beloved organisation.

    Pointing out how the organisation from top to bottom protected rapists and financially benefited from enslaving kidnapped women.

    What will I do?

    I know, I'll make stuff up about re-education camps and China which was never mentioned and call the poster a bigot even though it is my beloved organisation which has been bigoted against women for centuries and still is.

    You and your ilk may think that a paedophile ring masquerading as a religion should be allowed in society, but some of us have morals.


  • #177
    John Hutton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭John Hutton


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    Oh no, somebody is pointing out the criminality in my beloved organisation.

    Pointing out how the organisation from top to bottom protected rapists and financially benefited from enslaving kidnapped women.

    What will I do?

    I know, I'll make stuff up about re-education camps and China which was never mentioned and call the poster a bigot even though it is my beloved organisation which has been bigoted against women for centuries and still is.

    You and your ilk may think that a paedophile ring masquerading as a religion should be allowed in society, but some of us have morals.
    Then why don't you explain what you mean by outlawing the Catholic religion? What would that look like?


  • #178
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,846 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    John Hutton wrote: »
    Then why don't you explain what you mean by outlawing the Catholic religion? What would that look like?

    You really should learn to read or do you just enjoy making stuff up?

    I never said the religion should be banned, I said the criminal organisation should be outlawed.

    Two different things.

    If people want to believe nonsense, that's their problem.

    When an organisation is involved in such brutal criminality it needs to be outlawed.

    If a terrorist organisation says they're a religious organisation does that give them a free pass to continue to exist legally?

    The rest of know the crimes of the RC church, from protecting rapists to enslaving women, to wanting to burn scientists alive.

    Says a lot about you that you try to defend such a vile organisation.


  • #179
    John Hutton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭John Hutton


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    You really should learn to read or do you just enjoy making stuff up?

    I never said the religion should be banned, I said the criminal organisation should be outlawed.

    Two different things.

    If people want to believe nonsense, that's their problem.

    When an organisation is involved in such brutal criminality it needs to be outlawed.

    If a terrorist organisation says they're a religious organisation does that give them a free pass to continue to exist legally?

    The rest of know the crimes of the RC church, from protecting rapists to enslaving women, to wanting to burn scientists alive.

    Says a lot about you that you try to defend such a vile organisation.
    Thats a distinction without a difference. How can one be a catholic and practice their religion if the Church is outlawed?


    You still haven't answered the question. What would it look like it you had your way?


  • #180
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,846 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    John Hutton wrote: »
    Thats a distinction without a difference. How can one be a catholic and practice their religion if the Church is outlawed?


    You still haven't answered the question. What would it look like it you had your way?

    Set up a new cult.

    Organisations that are up to their eyes in criminality need to be outlawed and have their assets seized.

    But you think the law shouldn't be applied to your mob?

    Says a lot about you that your worry is about a religion and not about a criminal organisation of rapists and kidnappers.


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  • #181
    Bubbaclaus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,461 ✭✭✭Bubbaclaus


    John Hutton wrote: »
    How can one be a catholic and practice their religion if the Church is outlawed?

    Are you saying that if the Vatican disbanded in the morning you could no longer be a Catholic? That without the organisation existing the belief also ceases to exist?


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