More people believing Conspiracy theories

30-10-2020 2:58pm

a_squirrelman wrote: »

Nah, sometimes things just happen. Like a random virus and trying to beat it.

But some people can't handle random in their small lives, everything needs some bigger reason or cause.

Usually they just need something more in their lives and conspiracies fill that void. Bit of exercise or just getting off the web will set you on the right path.

Ah, you disappeared there for a bit after being proven wrong about the incentivised Covid payments...

Back under your rock again now, please

a_squirrelman · 30-10-2020 3:06pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah, you disappeared there for a bit after being proven wrong about the incentivised Covid payments...

Back under your rock again now, please

Pfffft, hush you, I'll do what I like. I checked the source and saw it was junk but continue following your nonsense.

OscarMIlde · 30-10-2020 5:08pm

dxhound2005 wrote: »

If you had not put "to be fair" at the start I would have accepted it just as your opinion. Whether it is fair or not is not for you to impose on readers.

Well that's remarkably pedantic. Anyone who believes the official story regarding the JFK assassination hasn't read much about it. Oswald's own background suggests he was a low level intelligence operative. He was a US marine who had sufficient clearance to know about the U2 spy plane at a time when it was a military secret. He openly spoke about his interest in Russia and began learning the Russian language while a marine during the cold war, when communist paranoia was widespread in the US. He then defected to the Soviet Union, married the daughter of a Russian general. He was later allowed move back to the US with his wife and child. There he hung around with known anti-communist people and groups until a few months before the Kennedy association when he abruptly set up a pro-communist Cuban organisation and began distributing flyers and getting into fights with anti-communists groups.

Immediately after the assassination it was put out that he acted as an agent for Fidel Castro, until the story changed that he was a lone nut.

dxhound2005 · 30-10-2020 5:31pm

There is a conspiracy theory circulating about a statement attributed to JFK shortly before his death.

“There’s a plot in this country to enslave every man, woman and child. Before I leave this high and noble office, I intend to expose this plot”

Some people will read it and say it is another piece of proof that the "official narrative" is not reliable.

I take the view as expressed on Snopes that it would have been impossible for the President to make such a statement, and it would only exist now in conspiracy theory circles, and not in any mainstream media archives, or any government records.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/jfk-plot-in-this-country-to-enslave/

If I start reading more about the case, it will lead me into a series of such rabbit holes.

The Nal · 30-10-2020 5:59pm

dxhound2005 wrote: »

There is a conspiracy theory circulating about a statement attributed to JFK shortly before his death.

“There’s a plot in this country to enslave every man, woman and child. Before I leave this high and noble office, I intend to expose this plot”

Some people will read it and say it is another piece of proof that the "official narrative" is not reliable.

I take the view as expressed on Snopes that it would have been impossible for the President to make such a statement, and it would only exist now in conspiracy theory circles, and not in any mainstream media archives, or any government records.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/jfk-plot-in-this-country-to-enslave/

I've been studying that case for 20 years. I've never seen such a poisonous community anywhere. People are so desperate for it to be a conspiracy they'll lie like that and even plant bullets in Dealey Plaza. A lot of money to be made from it I suppose.

dxhound2005 wrote: »

If I start reading more about the case, it will lead me into a series of such rabbit holes.

Thats the importance of having a reliable source to read from. EG First book I read was Rush to Judgment by Mark Lane and in my naivety I took his word for it. Turns out he was a total charlatan.

ShatterAlan · 30-10-2020 8:36pm

a_squirrelman wrote: »

But you'll find that most people believing these conspiracy theories don't "examine them without prejudice" or "with an open mind", far from it, they only then read more junk that confirms their new beliefs.

And any criticism leads to us non believers being called sheep etc etc.

You make a good point....BUT I would dispute your assertion that most people [I won't say "believing these conspiracy theories" but rather "doubting/questioning the official narrative"] fall into that category.

Official narratives and government malfeasance occur on a regular basis. Prior to its exposure it is called a conspiracy theory by those who don't want to believe anything other than the official story. Once the subterfuge is brought to light, the episode is quickly re-labelled a "scandal".

People were called tin-foilers, lizard-people visionaries, conspiracy theorists,traitors, terrorist-sympathisers, etc, etc for daring to question the official line that Saddam was somehow responsible for 9/11 and that he had terrible weapons that could wipe us all out in 45 minutes if the country wasn't invaded post-haste. This wasn't faulty intelligence or anything else. It was a deliberately fabricated crisis that caused hundreds of thousands of US casualties and millions of Iraqi casualties. It was done on purpose.

The 2008 global financial collapse. Again completely manufactured. It wasn't someone asleep at the wheel or people biting off more than they could chew by purchasing a villa in Florida on Taco Bell wages. It was deliberate.

So to move back to those who see a "conspiracy" around each corner. It's hard to blame them even if they don't examine all of the facts. One lie is enough to sow the seeds of doubt in a person's mind. When you've been lied to in the past you have two choices. Accept the next story prima facie or doubt it.

The question you need to ask yourself is this:

Would a goverrnment/corporation/<insert powerful entity> do something illegal and grossly immoral if they stood to benefit and escape any consequences?

The "conspiracy theorist" is of the opinion that "Yes, of course they would. And there's nothing I could do about it. And it sucks and is depressing that my life could be so cheap to those in power."

The "adherent to the official line" is of the opinion that "Absolutely NOT. Those in power would never hurt a flea, let alone threaten my safety for their own advantage."

dxhound2005 · 30-10-2020 8:56pm

ShatterAlan wrote: »

The "adherent to the official line" is of the opinion that "Absolutely NOT. Those in power would never hurt a flea, let alone threaten my safety for their own advantage."

And you think the charlatans who make up nonsense have your best interests at heart? I wouldn't trust them any more than I would the TV preachers who make themselves rich by being good showmen. The conspiracy theorists are in it for the money. The worst thing is that some of them are Jim Jones, Charles Manson, David Koresh types who can brainwash people and put them in danger.

ShatterAlan · 30-10-2020 10:35pm

The Nal wrote: »

Assuming something is a conspiracy and then going looking for evidence is moronic though. Like, really really moronic. Attaching cherry picked evidence to suit a narrative is cart before horse.

There is no such thing as an anti-conspiracy theorist. If theres evidence then theres grounds for a conspiracy theory. If there isn't, then there isn't.

But what if the evidence is bogus on one side of the debate or the other?

Why would you lie?

Why?

ShatterAlan · 30-10-2020 11:01pm

a_squirrelman wrote: »

How can you believe that so many groups (pharma, dozens of governments, WHO, in country health officials) can successfully work "in cahoots" when those same groups can't organise the most simple things in secret (Golfgate)?

It doesn't really matter if it was 1 person or 1 billion.

A cabal prattled on 2000 years ago, or maybe more, tack on 5000 or 7000 years, about going to a place where after you die things will be so much better and nicer.

How could so many people who were privy to that gibberish have just kept their mouths shut?

It's always the case....."Well if someone knew something dodgy was afoot then they would have spoken out"

Except they they did and they do. But they're never listened to. Rather they are smeared and called nutcases, cranks, or "conspiracy theorists"

Hangdogroad · 31-10-2020 6:31am

ShatterAlan wrote: »

It doesn't really matter if it was 1 person or 1 billion.

A cabal prattled on 2000 years ago, or maybe more, tack on 5000 or 7000 years, about going to a place where after you die things will be so much better and nicer.

How could so many people who were privy to that gibberish have just kept their mouths shut?

It's always the case....."Well if someone knew something dodgy was afoot then they would have spoken out"

Except they they did and they do. But they're never listened to. Rather they are smeared and called nutcases, cranks, or "conspiracy theorists"

Aren't you the Putin fanboy?

Wibbs · 31-10-2020 8:40am

ShatterAlan wrote: »

Would a goverrnment/corporation/<insert powerful entity> do something illegal and grossly immoral if they stood to benefit and escape any consequences?

The "conspiracy theorist" is of the opinion that "Yes, of course they would. And there's nothing I could do about it. And it sucks and is depressing that my life could be so cheap to those in power."

The "adherent to the official line" is of the opinion that "Absolutely NOT. Those in power would never hurt a flea, let alone threaten my safety for their own advantage."

There's a third option: Happenstance and incompetence. The morality of the powerful is not in question as such. Those who actively seek power or try to hang onto it tend to turn blind eyes when it suits and open them when it suits. Fine. The problem with the same types is constant paranoia and competition. They can barely agree with each other on stuff that is open, never mind top secret stuff. Plus in order to act on top secret stuff you need lots of players, any one of whom may see it in their particular interest to sabotage it or let the cat out of the bag. There are too many actors on the stage to keep to the same script for very long.

Take the moon landing conspiracy. Hundreds of thousands of people involved in that project, tens of thousands at the sharp end, the entire globe watching and listening in(radio hams were able to work out the frequencies used by both the US and USSR by trial and error and working out the length of antennas from photos) and a belligerent opponent fighting with the US in a proxy world war 3 and yet... The Soviets would have only loved to say it was faked. The joke is surveys in Russia and America show more Americans think they didn't go to the moon. In the UK and France the percentage is even higher.

ShatterAlan wrote: »

A cabal prattled on 2000 years ago, or maybe more, tack on 5000 or 7000 years, about going to a place where after you die things will be so much better and nicer.

It's way further back than that. Maybe 100,000 years, given burial practices and offerings for the afterlife and I doubt cavemen were running organised cabals.

How could so many people who were privy to that gibberish have just kept their mouths shut?

Eh... they believed it 100% themselves. Among the greatest minds in human history many if not a majority believed in a deity or deities, of something more.

People were called tin-foilers, lizard-people visionaries, conspiracy theorists,traitors, terrorist-sympathisers, etc, etc for daring to question the official line that Saddam was somehow responsible for 9/11 and that he had terrible weapons that could wipe us all out in 45 minutes if the country wasn't invaded post-haste. This wasn't faulty intelligence or anything else. It was a deliberately fabricated crisis that caused hundreds of thousands of US casualties and millions of Iraqi casualties. It was done on purpose.

And the US propaganda lies came out very soon after. Within months. They couldn't sustain their BS for any length of time. Yet they've kept Kennedy, moon landings etc going decades later?

The 2008 global financial collapse. Again completely manufactured. It wasn't someone asleep at the wheel or people biting off more than they could chew by purchasing a villa in Florida on Taco Bell wages. It was deliberate.

Deliberate in the sense of greed among a large section of investors and the like and a feeling that this time it'll be grand, or I'll get out before it goes bang. Add in a lack of oversight because that's "bad for the market" and you get the boom bust cycle. There was no conspiracy required when the Dutch went insane over the "value" of tulips, though after it went bang some blamed external forces. It's a very human thing. We're a pattern seeking species and we need to see patterns in the chaos, even when it's just chaos. It's what we do. It's what brought us from the cave to the space station, but it can be fooled too.

Optimalprimerib · 31-10-2020 8:51am

My friend sent me a video of dr vernon coleman who tries to debunk the whole covid 19 pandemic in a 30 minute rant with some ok points but zero back up.

It would be easy to take what he says on board except for the fact that he is also antivax, anti hiv, anti establishment basically. He is a consiracy obsessive and as he is against everything it is hard to take him seriously.

My friend also sent on the doctors conference thing which I was very much on board with, then Delores Cahill was handed the mic....

Panrich · 31-10-2020 9:02am

Optimalprimerib wrote: »

My friend sent me a video of dr vernon coleman who tries to debunk the whole covid 19 pandemic in a 30 minute rant with some ok points but zero back up.

It would be easy to take what he says on board except for the fact that he is also antivax, anti hiv, anti establishment basically. He is a consiracy obsessive and as he is against everything it is hard to take him seriously.

My friend also sent on the doctors conference thing which I was very much on board with, then Delores Cahill was handed the mic....

That’s the thing with these people. They can create a narrative that makes sense on a superficial level and get some others to believe and indeed percolate the story and hey presto you’ve got a new conspiracy theory.

AndrewJRenko · 31-10-2020 11:24am

The widow of my brother-in-law in Melbourne has gone over to the dark side. It started out with postings around cancer nutrition nonsense as her husband was dying of cancer. It has progressed to 'We love you Pres Trump' and livestreaming from anti-mask anti-lockdown protests in recent weeks.

She was very well provided for when he died, so she probably has loads of time on her hands. The two kids are in primary school.

The bizarre thing is that she uses her dead husband's Facebook account, so all these postings are made literally in his name. It was sweet at first after he died to see her keeping his memory alive with normal postings, but this stuff goes directly against everything he ever stood for, definitely not his values.

I'm stumped as to how to approach it, if at all. She gets some support from within her own native Australian extended family. I'm really pi$$ed that she is sullying his name like this.

tjdaly · 31-10-2020 12:04pm

Maybe you could start an alternative Facebook page for him Andrew? Keep it going with little factoids about orthodox science, as well as well wishings around Easter and festive memes at Christmas.

31-10-2020 12:05pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

The widow of my brother-in-law in Melbourne has gone over to the dark side. It started out with postings around cancer nutrition nonsense as her husband was dying of cancer. It has progressed to 'We love you Pres Trump' and livestreaming from anti-mask anti-lockdown protests in recent weeks.

She was very well provided for when he died, so she probably has loads of time on her hands. The two kids are in primary school.

The bizarre thing is that she uses her dead husband's Facebook account, so all these postings are made literally in his name. It was sweet at first after he died to see her keeping his memory alive with normal postings, but this stuff goes directly against everything he ever stood for, definitely not his values.

I'm stumped as to how to approach it, if at all. She gets some support from within her own native Australian extended family. I'm really pi$$ed that she is sullying his name like this.

Regardless of ones views on conspiracy theories etc, I'm sure we can all agree that this is completely disgraceful, disrespectful, and fraudulent behavior. Tell her to close his account and start posting in her own name. Crazy.

Panrich · 31-10-2020 12:12pm

tjdaly wrote: »

Maybe you could start an alternative Facebook page for him Andrew? Keep it going with little factoids about orthodox science, as well as well wishings around Easter and festive memes at Christmas.

Would contacting Facebook be an option? I don’t think their rules allow to post under another’s identity. That way you don’t have to make it personal with her.

Capt'n Midnight · 31-10-2020 12:20pm

valoren wrote: »

But I'm struggling to correlate how the RAND corporation is involved. What ROI would be acceptable for the reverse vampires? I'm willing to bet that their space alien co-conspirators invented 5G considering the technology involved.

My favourite RAND publication

https://www.rand.org/pubs/monograph_reports/MR1418.html

But are the digits truly random ? What secrets do they hold ??

Capt'n Midnight · 31-10-2020 1:01pm

Hamsterchops wrote: »

I have a new Covid-19 conspiracy theory for you.

What if aliens are making the whole world wear face coverings, so that they are indistinguishable from us?

No chance.

Even with a face mask I recognise Mrs Murphy's tentacles anywhere.

Gregor Samsa · 31-10-2020 1:23pm

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

My favourite RAND publication

https://www.rand.org/pubs/monograph_reports/MR1418.html

But are the digits truly random ? What secrets do they hold ??

Bought that for my brother for Christmas. Very disappointed to see they had to ask for my address and billing details. Surely the implant should be giving them that information.

Capt'n Midnight · 31-10-2020 1:54pm

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

Bought that for my brother for Christmas. Very disappointed to see they had to ask for my address and billing details. Surely the implant should be giving them that information.

You bought it ?

It's a download. Something about US govt stuff being free, unless it was done by private enterprise in which case screw the tax-payers.

Gregor Samsa · 31-10-2020 2:07pm

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

You bought it ?

It's a download. Something about US govt stuff being free, unless it was done by private enterprise in which case screw the tax-payers.

My brother prefers physical books.

ShatterAlan · 31-10-2020 6:15pm

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

My brother has become a conspiracy theorist of sorts. It's always people of below average intelligence who go down the conspiracy theory rabbit hole. He's also a heavy cannabis smoker, which seems to be a factor as well. It started for him around the time of the water meter protests - European conspiracy, Denis O'Brien, signals from the meters impacting your health, fluoridation etc. It always seems to boil down to (if you'll pardon the pun) people in positions of authority or a perceived elite plotting against the poor auld pleb.

Always the people with below average intelligence, eh?

People like Robert Parry, Noam Chomsky, John Pilger etc have frequently questioned if not outright shredded official narratives on many issues and their IQ's would leave most in the dust.

Mister Vain · 31-10-2020 6:22pm

Yeah I would disagree that its only unintelligent people that believe in conspiracies. Just like people who believe the official narrative are not always smart. There are articulate people that make good arguments on both sides.

ShatterAlan · 31-10-2020 7:03pm

katiek102010 wrote: »

I had a great time recently winding some people up online. Some stuff they believe is absolutely ludicrous. I than sat back and thought f**k.is the MH situation so bad in this country that people who fall for this bs are able to go online and inflict more damage on themselves.

Who is looking after them?

I have come across the following theories

1. Covid 19 is spread through 5G masts
2. Covid 19 is fake and was used as a cover to install "5G" masts
3. 5G masts are fake and being installed by government to control our brains telepathically.
4. Covid is made up so Bill Gates, who secretly controls all the government's in the world, can install microchips in us, in vaccine and control us.
5. Bill Gates, Hillary Clinton and Tom Hanks are all in a secret club and eat babies to stay young. ( that's why Tom Hanks was Woody in Toy Story)
6. Hillary Clinton runs a paedo ring as well as eating babies. Some say she has MM.

Am I the only one who is disturbed that people believe this ****

If you step back and then step forward again and examine the whole 5G thing, it makes perfect sense. I'm not saying that the virus can be spread through 5G masts. That's ridiculous but who benefits from spreading the inane notion that 5G masts are lethal? Why those who have for years been trying to obstruct the rollout of 5G technology.

Arresting the President of Huawei in Canada, threatening harsh punishments against any country that adopts 5G...why? Because 5G was developed in China and its rollout would give a massive technological advantage to China and leave Western telecomms companies in the Stone Age. Its encryption technologies would render data mining and snooping capabalities of the likes of Google, FB, etc, virtually useless.

So it's very advantageous to have people believe 5G is literally "bad for their health"

The other nonsense about eating babies and crap is absurd.

ShatterAlan · 31-10-2020 7:23pm

katiek102010 wrote: »

Thalidomide was 70 years ago. Huge scientific advancements and developments have come into place since. We have even landed men on the moon since it was in development.

That vaccine that we will most likely be getting would be developed in Oxford in the UK, led by an Irish man. Does that make it feel any safer?

And H1N1 Swine flu was 11 years ago. A girl my OH works with took the vaccine and developed narcolepsy and catalepsy among other side effects along with hundreds of others.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/history/narcolepsy-flu.html

Would you be willing to risk the remainder of your life health on a vaccine purely based on how "new" it is?

How long ago a scientific breakthrough occurred is no yardstick on its efficacy.

11 years ago...H!N1 vaccine......they got it wrong. 70 years ago...Thalidomide...they got it wrong. 90 years ago.....Penicillin...they got it right.

Edward Jenner......Smallpox vaccination.....200 years ago...he got it right.

a_squirrelman · 31-10-2020 7:27pm

ShatterAlan wrote: »

Always the people with below average intelligence, eh?

People like Robert Parry, Noam Chomsky, John Pilger etc have frequently questioned if not outright shredded official narratives on many issues and their IQ's would leave most in the dust.

But here's the thing, I wouldn't class Noam Chomsky and John Pilger as conspiracy theorists (don't know the other fella), I respect them for the most part, it isn't an all in or all out thing.

Where with the recent conspiracy theories floating around I'm like "wtf is this".

dxhound2005 · 31-10-2020 7:33pm

ShatterAlan wrote: »

Edward Jenner......Smallpox vaccination.....200 years ago...he got it right.

So he got it right but now big pharma has corrupted his perfect vaccine?

Serious Side Effects of Smallpox Vaccine
Heart problems
Swelling of the brain or spinal cord
Severe skin diseases
Spreading the virus to other parts of the body or to another person
Severe allergic reaction after vaccination
Accidental infection of the eye (which may cause swelling of the cornea causing watery painful eyes and blurred vision, scarring of the cornea, and blindness)

The risks for serious smallpox vaccine side effects are greater for:

People with any three of the following risk factors for heart disease: high blood pressure, high cholesterol, diabetes, high blood sugar, a family history of heart problems, or smoking
People with heart or blood vessel problems, including angina, previous heart attack, artery disease, congestive heart failure, stroke, or other cardiac problems
People with skin problems, such as eczema, atopic dermatitis, burns, impetigo, contact dermatitis, chickenpox, shingles, psoriasis, or uncontrolled acne
People with weakened immune systems, such as those who have received a transplant, are HIV positive, are receiving treatment for cancer, or are taking medications that suppress the immune system
Infants less than 1 year of age
Women who are pregnant or breastfeeding
People who are taking steroid eye drops or ointment
People who have had problems after previous doses of smallpox vaccine or are allergic to any part of smallpox vaccine, such as antibiotics neomycin or polymixin B

dxhound2005 · 31-10-2020 7:41pm

ShatterAlan wrote: »

Arresting the President of Huawei in Canada, threatening harsh punishments against any country that adopts 5G...why? Because 5G was developed in China and its rollout would give a massive technological advantage to China and leave Western telecomms companies in the Stone Age. Its encryption technologies would render data mining and snooping capabalities of the likes of Google, FB, etc, virtually useless.

You are giving far too much credit to China, and ignoring the development of 5G in other countries. Especially South Korea which launched the service before China did.

Top Countries with 5G: Key Takeaways
China has one of the largest 5G networks geographically speaking.
South Korea was the first country to have 5G networks and devices that used them at the same time.
Vodafone UK and O2 are sharing infrastructure in the U.K.
Vodafone and Deutsche Telekom are the 5G frontrunners in Germany.
T-Mobile in the U.S. is the first provider in the world to have a standalone 5G network with a 5G network core, meaning it does not rely on any 4G infrastructure or 4G network core.
Switzerland and the Nordic countries are places where 5G deployment is soon to take off.
Updated September 2020

ShatterAlan · 31-10-2020 7:41pm

katiek102010 wrote: »

Seriously do the conspiracy theorists not realise they have their own forum.

I'm off,

Don't use all the tinfoil, the rest of us need it for Christmas dinner

Nite all

And there go the ad hominems.

More people believing Conspiracy theories

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