Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - Read OP for Mod Warnings

Captain_Crash · 31-10-2020 01:59PM

charlie14 wrote: »

The very same. The one that has been now been joined by another four regions that make up 6.2 million of the population with local lockdowns.

Local lockdown? It’s literally our level 1! It’s demonstrate-ably not a lockdown!

funnydoggy · 31-10-2020 01:59PM

Genuinely think he's a member of NPHET.

charlie14 · 31-10-2020 02:00PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Its frustrating to hear the term lockdown used for regions in Sweden where they have essentially implemented what Ireland considered level 2 restrictions.

The Swedes have a long term approach to Covid, the less suppression on citizens the better.

Of course you underestimate the effects of what suppression is doing and going to cause, but it seems Sweden has really annoyed you to the point that the argument doesn’t really make any sense and you continue to ignore the fact that Sweden did what they were advised to and doubled ICU capacity for the benefit of not suppressing its citizens.

Ireland needs to implement the Swedish plan fairly fast

What Swedish plan ?
The one that went out the window with acquired herd immunity and has now resulted in five regions with 6.2 million of their 10 million population using lockdown the very week their regional authorities had the power to do so ?
Again Fintan, a classical case of you putting the cart before the horse. Sweden is now following Ireland`s strategy. Not the other way around.

FintanMcluskey · 31-10-2020 02:02PM

Don't Chute! wrote: »

Hello, hi there. You are completely misunderstanding his post. Goodbye now!

Good afternoon.

This is actually the most hospitable thread on this forum.

Have a splendid afternoon old chap.

Cheerio

acequion · 31-10-2020 02:05PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I agree with this, its all a matter of perspective. People look at the restrictions from their viewpoint only (and maybe that's human nature, but its also selfish).
My sister and husband both retired on good pensions and live in a remote part of of the country. They have been zealots of the toughest restrictions from the beginning. They didn't go once to a supermarket until June (from March!!). They got everything delivered and didn't go beyond their 2km even though they live on the side of a mountain. That was it.

I worked throughout Covid (essential) in an office with other people. It was worrying for about a day or two then we all just got on with it. Proper procedures and precautions used and not one person in our building got Covid. Going out to work lessened the hysteria and fear around Covid, it desensitized us and was far healthier than sitting at home with the radio on putting the fear of God into us!

I have 2 adult kids who have been affected by Covid in their lives, relationship breakups, trying to rent somewhere else to live, working from home for 8 months in a bedroom etc . Students locked up in bedrooms doing all their lectures online, or in an expensive rented accommodation that cost thousands near college, not allowed home for mid-term, extremely isolated..... just a few months ago they were still kids in school! Suddenly they're meant to be able to deal with isolation like adults, why? They're not adults, they don't yet have those skills. They are suffering as much as anyone! My mother who is 86 in a nursing home is going downhill since Covid started, suffering too from lack of human contact and has no visits anymore. She has said she would prefer to see us and take the risk than live the rest of her life alone in her bedroom in the nursing home.

I have friends who are self employed trying to change their set up time after time to make their little coffee shop safe and compliant, opening up only to be shut again, letting staff go , doing take-away in Winter in Ireland is tough and wont pay the bills........... I can now hear the desperation in their voices.

There is a HUGE HUMAN cost to this and its wrong to just look at it from one perspective! Its affecting everyone. I am sick of of the blame, the finger pointing, the attitude that its always someone else's fault and other people "aren't doing enough"! We were encouraged by our Government to "staycation" this year, to shop local, to eat local, there was even a tax break if you did. Suddenly its our fault that Covid spread as "everyone was on their holidays in Kerry and Connemara" .... this is exactly what people were asked to do!

If Tony Holohan ONCE came on to the News and said "I cannot thank people enough for everything they have done so far" it would help. He has NEVER addressed the public in anything other than derogatory tones and admonishment, not a glimmer of hope, even in the Summer. Yet he is lauded on The Late Late Show like some kind of celebrity?

(on a financial level its beyond comprehension how we are going to repay the amount we have borrowed. What are our future budgets every October going to be like......more austerity to repay all this?? HSE have just received the highest budget EVER in the history of the state yet we don't even have contact tracing set up and no increase in ICU beds :eek:)

Wow, what a wonderful post! Thank you sweetmaggie and I agree with every single word. Great point on Holohan. I'm a teacher and as a teacher you get a sense of what works with those you are tasked to guide and influence. And one thing certain is that constant admonishment, constant "I know better," constant calamitising coupled with zero thanks is a huge turn off. So take note Tony Holohan!!

And another huge problem everywhere is the lack of EMPATHY. Such a great concept and so simple, the ability to understand for others, yet so very lacking. Do the following examples sound familiar? Welcome to the new normal world of Covid!

I don't go the pubs so keep the pubs closed! What do you need drink for, must you listen to live music?
I never travel abroad so seal the borders! What do you want with a sun holiday? All those yanks everywhere giving us Covid! Ryan Air and all the spin off industries, who're they?
I'm an introvert and love being at home so why can't the rest of you just stay home! Why can't you watch loads of TV, read, meditate, get a new hobby? What do you need people for? [That's what some are actually pontificating to those crippled with loneliness, isolation and living with abusers over on the Covid mental health thread :rolleyes:]
I've a safe, secure job, no fear for my livelihood. Ya, too bad your business might go belly up, but we gotta keep everywhere shut! Gotta get to zero Covid!

And plenty more examples.

When I see the word "selfish" being applied to human needs and desires I realise it's another post from another zealot and read no further.

But, unfortunately the world is full of zealots and people with zero empathy and this pandemic is really showing it up.

normanoffside · 31-10-2020 02:05PM

charlie14 wrote: »

What Swedish plan ?
The one that went out the window with acquired herd immunity and has now resulted in five regions with 6.2 million of their 10 million population using lockdown the very week their regional authorities had the power to do so ?
Again Fintan, a classical case of you putting the cart before the horse. Sweden is now following Ireland`s strategy. Not the other way around.

Why have you ignored all the posts which explain it is not any kind of lockdown like we know?

They are just advising people to cut down on their social interactions for a while, nothing much is closed.

charlie14 · 31-10-2020 02:09PM

Captain_Crash wrote: »

Local lockdown? It’s literally our level 1! It’s demonstrate-ably not a lockdown!

Then you are very much at variance with the regional epidemiologist for Uppsala, the first region to do this which has been quickly followed by the other four as soon as the regions had the power to do so.
Johan Lojd regional epidemiologist for Uppsala when announcing their decision " It`s more a lockdown situation, but a local lockdown"

normanoffside · 31-10-2020 02:11PM

charlie14 wrote: »

Then you are very much at variance with the regional epidemiologist for Uppsala, the first region to do this which has been quickly followed by the other four as soon as the regions had the power to do so.
Johan Lojd regional epidemiologist for Uppsala when announcing their decision " It`s more a lockdown situation, but a local lockdown"

Read the damn articles in full about the Swedish recommendations.
They are just advising people to cut down social interactions especially with the vulnerable.

Nothing has been ordered to close. No fines and no masks.
They are considering stopping concerts

It's actually not even our level 1 to be honest.

Captain_Crash · 31-10-2020 02:14PM

charlie14 wrote: »

Then you are very much at variance with the regional epidemiologist for Uppsala, the first region to do this which has been quickly followed by the other four as soon as the regions had the power to do so.
Johan Lojd regional epidemiologist for Uppsala when announcing their decision " It`s more a lockdown situation, but a local lockdown"

They can call it Supermax Level 500 for all anyone cares.... it’s the strictest they have in Sweden and is literally not comparable to what we have here...! Again, it’s our level 1 (1+ maybe), your being deliberately disingenuous spouting this nonsense that Sweden has gone into lockdown when it factually has not by any measure we use here

charlie14 · 31-10-2020 02:15PM

normanoffside wrote: »

Why have you ignored all the posts which explain it is not any kind of lockdown like we know?

They are just advising people to cut down on their social interactions for a while, nothing much is closed.

While you are totally ignoring what the regional epidemiologist for Uppsala said aswell as the fact that all those that supported the Swedish strategy were so fond of telling us. That Sweden would never use any form of lockdown. Well like it or not that is what is now happening for two thirds of their population.
Mind you the same people told us the same on Sweden`s strategy not being herd immunity but the freedom of information e-mails showed how misguided they were on that as well.

charlie14 · 31-10-2020 02:19PM

Captain_Crash wrote: »

They can call it Supermax Level 500 for all anyone cares.... it’s the strictest they have in Sweden and is literally not comparable to what we have here...! Again, it’s our level 1 (1+ maybe), your being deliberately disingenuous spouting this nonsense that Sweden has gone into lockdown when it factually has not by any measure we use here

Like many others who were so adamant that the Swedish strategy was nothing to do with herd immunity you can stick yuor fingers in your ears and shout no to your hearts content.
It will still not negate that five regions in Sweden comprising 6.2 million people have now begun using lockdown.

FintanMcluskey · 31-10-2020 02:19PM

charlie14 wrote: »

While you are totally ignoring what the regional epidemiologist for Uppsala said aswell as the fact that all those that supported the Swedish strategy were so fond of telling us. That Sweden would never use any form of lockdown. Well like it or not that is what is now happening for two thirds of their population.
Mind you the same people told us the same on Sweden`s strategy not being herd immunity but the freedom of information e-mails showed how misguided they were on that as well.

Charlie it’s not a lockdown.

charlie14 · 31-10-2020 02:21PM

normanoffside wrote: »

Read the damn articles in full about the Swedish recommendations.
They are just advising people to cut down social interactions especially with the vulnerable.

Nothing has been ordered to close. No fines and no masks.
They are considering stopping concerts

It's actually not even our level 1 to be honest.

Why not read it again and give us the full list of of what is included.

charlie14 · 31-10-2020 02:28PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Charlie it’s not a lockdown.

I would be much more inclined to go with the regional epidemiologist for Uppsala, the first region to clarify what it was seeing as he announced it than you Fintan.

"It`s more a lockdown situation, but a local lockdown"

You could always fire off a missive to him Fintan and explain with all your qualifications and knowledge from afar telling him how wrong he is though.
Perhaps that might make him change his mind.

Penfailed · 31-10-2020 02:33PM

charlie14 wrote: »

I would be much more inclined to go with the regional epidemiologist for Uppsala, the first region to clarify what it was seeing as he announced it than you Fintan.

"It`s more a lockdown situation, but a local lockdown"

You could always fire off a missive to him Fintan and explain with all your qualifications and knowledge from afar telling him how wrong he is though.
Perhaps that might make him change his mind.

Maybe, in Swedish terms, with them having had no restrictions, it might feel as though it is a lockdown for them. It's not though.

Plumbthedepths · 31-10-2020 02:34PM

Not relevant to the topic but it maybe of interest. Leo is potentially in serious bother.

https://villagemagazineireland2020.medium.com/leo-varadkar-lawbreaker-t%C3%A1naiste-leaked-confidential-document-to-friend-efdd1f14cfcb

Don't Chute! · 31-10-2020 02:38PM

charlie14 wrote: »

I would be much more inclined to go with the regional epidemiologist for Uppsala, the first region to clarify what it was seeing as he announced it than you Fintan.

"It`s more a lockdown situation, but a local lockdown"

You could always fire off a missive to him Fintan and explain with all your qualifications and knowledge from afar telling him how wrong he is though.
Perhaps that might make him change his mind.

Things you can still do in Sweden:

Go to a pub
Go to a restaurant
Go to a nite club
Buy clothing
Meet other people
Stay in a hotel
Travel within the country
Get a haircut
Go out without sanctimonious **** accusing you of killing their granny
Go to a book shop
The list goes on.......

Things you Can’t do in Ireland:

See all of the above

Now, I’m getting my information from family and friends over there. Are they lying? This “Swedish lockdown” is not the win you so desperately want it to be.

funnydoggy · 31-10-2020 02:41PM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Not relevant to the topic but it maybe of interest. Leo is potentially in serious bother.

https://villagemagazineireland2020.medium.com/leo-varadkar-lawbreaker-t%C3%A1naiste-leaked-confidential-document-to-friend-efdd1f14cfcb

No wonder Matiú is in the media regularly regarding COVID. They're all pals. This is crazy.

Also, great journalism from Village Magazine!

Don't Chute! · 31-10-2020 02:47PM

And another thing about Sweden. It’s not constantly on the news over there like it is here. Our Ministry for Fear and Intimidation otherwise known as “RTE” are absolutely ****ing obsessed with this thing. I really think it would take something of 9/11 proportions to knock this off the headlines and that’s ****ing scary.

charlie14 · 31-10-2020 02:51PM

Penfailed wrote: »

Maybe, in Swedish terms, with them having had no restrictions, it might feel as though it is a lockdown for them. It's not though.

There is no definitive definition of what a lockdown comprises. The fact that the regional epidemiologist terms it a lockdown and that another four regions quickly joined I would not see a reason to question it.
Some here are even arguing that it is not a lockdown, but it is anything from stage 1 of a lockdown to stage 3 of a lockdown while totally missing the point that by doing so they are in fact acknowledging it as a lockdown.
It`s a nonsensical argument based on nothing other than now seeing a change in the Swedish strategy once the regions gained the power to make their own decisions that lockdown is not lockdown when it is in Sweden.

walus · 31-10-2020 02:54PM

charlie14 wrote: »

There is no definitive definition of what a lockdown comprises. The fact that the regional epidemiologist terms it a lockdown and that another four regions quickly joined I would not see a reason to question it.
Some here are even arguing that it is not a lockdown, but it is anything from stage 1 of a lockdown to stage 3 of a lockdown while totally missing the point that by doing so they are in fact acknowledging it as a lockdown.
It`s a nonsensical argument based on nothing other than now seeing a change in the Swedish strategy once the regions gained the power to make their own decisions that lockdown is not lockdown when it is in Sweden.

Let it go Charlie. Let it go. When you find yourself in a hole the best thing you can do is stop digging.

dubdaymo · 31-10-2020 03:03PM

The "clothes are not essential" issue just discussed on News at One on RTE.

This time they had the ventriloquist lad from Limerick (can never remember his name) defending it and showing complete denial of the existence of people who can't do click and collect, have no transport to collect anyway, the oft urgent need for parents to buy childrens' clothes etc.

One common denominator for all these idiots is they're all so arrogant and utterly obnoxious.

normanoffside · 31-10-2020 03:09PM

charlie14 wrote: »

Why not read it again and give us the full list of of what is included.

Full list of restrictions in Upsalla:

https://www.thelocal.se/20201023/i-feel-safer-how-uppsala-residents-are-responding-to-swedens-first-local-coronavirus-measures

Under the new rules, all residents of Uppsala region are advised to avoid not only organising or attending parties, but any close contact with people outside their household, defined as spending more than 15 minutes within a 1.5 metre distance of each other.

That’s it. No house parties please.

charlie14 · 31-10-2020 03:09PM

Don't Chute! wrote: »

Things you can still do in Sweden:

Go to a pub
Go to a restaurant
Go to a nite club
Buy clothing
Meet other people
Stay in a hotel
Travel within the country
Get a haircut
Go out without sanctimonious **** accusing you of killing their granny
Go to a book shop
The list goes on.......

Things you Can’t do in Ireland:

See all of the above

Now, I’m getting my information from family and friends over there. Are they lying? This “Swedish lockdown” is not the win you so desperately want it to be.

Your friends and family missed a few points regarding Upsalla and the other four regions.

Avoid physical contact with people you do not live with.
Avoid organising or taking part in parties or other social activities.
Avoid using public transport.
Refrain from being in indoor environments such as shops, shopping centers, museums, gyms,swimming pools, libraries etc.with the exception of necessary visits to grocery stores or pharmacies.
Refrain from attending meetings, concerts, performances, sports training, matches and competitions.

I`m not looking for "a win" whatever that is supposed to mean. I am just pointing out the change in policy in Sweden now that their regions can make their own decisions as to what they feel best works for them.

Penfailed · 31-10-2020 03:10PM

charlie14 wrote: »

There is no definitive definition of what a lockdown comprises. The fact that the regional epidemiologist terms it a lockdown and that another four regions quickly joined I would not see a reason to question it.
Some here are even arguing that it is not a lockdown, but it is anything from stage 1 of a lockdown to stage 3 of a lockdown while totally missing the point that by doing so they are in fact acknowledging it as a lockdown.
It`s a nonsensical argument based on nothing other than now seeing a change in the Swedish strategy once the regions gained the power to make their own decisions that lockdown is not lockdown when it is in Sweden.

Stage 1 here isn't a lockdown either. It's the lowest rung on a ladder of restrictions.

charlie14 · 31-10-2020 03:10PM

normanoffside wrote: »

Full list of restrictions in Upsalla:

https://www.thelocal.se/20201023/i-feel-safer-how-uppsala-residents-are-responding-to-swedens-first-local-coronavirus-measures

Under the new rules, all residents of Uppsala region are advised to avoid not only organising or attending parties, but any close contact with people outside their household, defined as spending more than 15 minutes within a 1.5 metre distance of each other.

That’s it. No house parties please.

Not really. See above. ^^^

funnydoggy · 31-10-2020 03:12PM

We're so fortunate to have such low death numbers lately. Each death is an unbearable loss to the families involved, but one professor (Sam McConkey) mentioned at the start of this that we could see, worse case scenario, 120,000 deaths. Of course he's a zero COVID guy and a pinch of salt is needed, but they were all over this kind of prediction at the start.

FintanMcluskey · 31-10-2020 03:13PM

Don't Chute! wrote: »

Things you can still do in Sweden:

Go to a pub
Go to a restaurant
Go to a nite club
Buy clothing
Meet other people
Stay in a hotel
Travel within the country
Get a haircut
Go out without sanctimonious **** accusing you of killing their granny
Go to a book shop
The list goes on.......

Things you Can’t do in Ireland:

See all of the above

Is that an amendment to the National framework for living with COVID-19 level 1-5?

charlie14 · 31-10-2020 03:15PM

Penfailed wrote: »

Stage 1 here isn't a lockdown either. It's the lowest rung on a ladder of restrictions.

Whether it`s stage 1 or stage 3 it`s rungs on the ladder supporters of the now defunct Swedish national strategy assured us we would never see.

normanoffside · 31-10-2020 03:16PM

charlie14 wrote: »

Not really. See above. ^^^

And what's closed?
That's right, nothing.

Sweden works on sensible advice.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - Read OP for Mod Warnings