Three dead as woman beheaded in France

fash · 29-10-2020 9:20pm

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

Of course it is, but it's equally insane to do something that you know will ignite anger in a huge section of society for no good reason but to make fun of their beliefs.

Actually, by far the most important and critical foundation of western culture, the reason for its advancement and the reason you have internet is blasphemy: it is the cornerstone upon which all rights are built.
Chipping away at taboos, non factual beliefs and false truths and showing up their flaws. That is what the beheaded teacher was doing - and that is which you wish to suppress- you should feel ashamed.

Kaybaykwah · 29-10-2020 9:20pm

Limpy wrote: »

What you do is you say to these people, this is they way we are doing things here. If you find that our society and value's (or a cartoon) offends you then get back on the Boat a piss off.

Yes, but again, try and give them a little local colo(u)r by telling them to get on the boat and Feck off. There.

Strazdas · 29-10-2020 9:22pm

bb1234567 wrote: »

This does not help your point whatsoever. How many Brits in this survey are proposing different laws for those of other races?

Big ****in difference between being offensive to somebody based on their race and proposing different laws for other citizens of your country based on who they are attracted to, more than half of muslims in that survey you quoted supporting homosexuality being made illegal. Absolutely unbelievable that's being defended or at the very least rather pathetically an attempt being made to somehow equate an inconsequential opinion polls about comparatively minor offences somehow being on an equal footing in terms of societal impact from this prejudice

Your energy would be much better spent trying to discuss how the situation with deep seathed hatred toward minorities and those with opposing views among the Muslim community might be improved. Yep intolerance on both sides, certainly looks like it is heavily weighted towards the Muslim community though if we are to compare the poll you quoted and the one you provided in defence.

I keep reading about "integration" in this thread, but many are demanding that non nationals (especially non whites) fully integrate into a society that clearly regards them as inferior and second class citizens. Integration is a two way process : both sides have to reach out, not just the new arrivals.

29-10-2020 9:23pm

deBeauvoir wrote: »

I'll reply to you because it seems like I avoid you. If what you describe happened in Dubai, well that's Dubai - the reason you want to support them is so that you can have the justification to do the same here. I get it, you're not for multiculturalism, fair enough. I would imagine some people here would want to act differently in such a situation and not be as oppressive as Dubai!

Progressive liberals are not all the same! I believe that having a multicultural society should be accepted by now, I just don't believe we should pretend that we all like each other and each group should stop agitating to undermine each other

There is a rather significant flaw in your reasoning though. We went through a rather extended period where criticism of Islam under any circumstances was frowned upon. Islamaphobia was coined to describe anyone with a critical appreciation of Islam or Muslims. We've gone through years of censor against those who would agitate Muslims, and the problems haven't gone away, instead, the influence of Muslim communities have grown.

The idea that we can just stop agitating them, and everything will be fine is pure fantasy, because the simple reality is that western culture, in most respects, is a polar opposite of their own religious values. In every Islamic nation, which previously tried bringing in western attitudes (even with their own interpretation of it) towards women's rights or such... those countries have since returned to a harder stance with greater growth in fundamental Islamic practices.

Seriously, what are we going to do about the Muslims who are here now! (oppress them, make them convert?) Unlike other progressives, I feel the same way for the Christians and Jews too. I don't like them being undermined too.

We enforce western laws, and cultural norms, protecting the native environment, because ultimately it is that native population who should be protected, first and foremost. In most respects, traditional populations of Muslims within Europe's borders were small in numbers, and therefore, they avoided exercising their attitudes against westerners. We should be limiting the populations of Muslims in Europe, ensuring that they are spread out, with small numbers and easily monitored.

There is a choice here. Islam is not native to Europe. Neither are the vast majority of Muslims living within European borders. If they cannot respect our way of life, then, they should move to an Islamic nation. There's plenty for them to choose from.

For everyone else, go ahead and mock them! See where that ultimately gets us!

Except you're not presenting a realistic alternative. You would have us surrender completely to them, with very dubious chances of gaining anything positive from it. Again, it's been tried before, and the problems haven't gone away... so... what's your answer? Continue as before, protecting Muslim beliefs over that of European freedoms, and... what then?

Spanish Eyes · 29-10-2020 9:23pm

positron wrote: »

I am concerned by the lack of reaction from rest of the European nations.

Why isn't everyone out there projecting the Muhammad cartoons onto their public buildings? I would love to see it projected on GPO, Custom House etc.
This is the moment we all need to stand up and show we are with France.
Nothing against Islam, but everyone together against extremists.

Fear of racist backlash. Simple enough. It is ingrained now, because as we know, these murderers do not represent the majority who adhere to the "religion of peace".

They are the moronic outliers who probably attend a radical mosque anyway.

That to me is where it needs to start, in those mosques and congregations who are not averse to this murderous behaviour against the infidel. But it won't.

Too many Imams preach radicalism, or support it as do their congregations. That needs to be stamped out. It was largely cleaned out in London with the conviction of the one eyed one armed hook man Abu Hamza. But sadly it is still happening in places like France. I don't know what to think anymore really. But hope London is not next again.

Spanish Eyes · 29-10-2020 9:27pm

Kivaro wrote: »

When news of this barbaric act broke today, there was one name that came to mind immediately................ Recep Erdogan.
The Turkish leader spent the last number of days screaming for revenge with his hateful rhetoric, and now he has it.

I would imagine that the French Secret Service might possibly take this attack on the Republic as a consequence of Erdogan's call to arms to save the French Muslims. Erdogan should fear retaliation, which will eventually come.

Interesting, I think he said some very uncomplimentary things about Macron too.

A call to arms. There is a lot of evil machinations about from these Muslims.

Erdogan is living in splendour as is his family. He has sacked teachers, journalists and Civil Servants and so on. Dictator with a small appendage I suppose.

bb1234567 · 29-10-2020 9:29pm

Strazdas wrote: »

I keep reading about "integration" in this thread, but many are demanding that non nationals (especially non whites) fully integrate into a society that clearly regards them as inferior and second class citizens. Integration is a two way process : both sides have to reach out, not just the new arrivals.

Ok well a good start would be if a majority of them didn't hold the belief that the harmless romantic activites of a significant minority of our existing population(lgbt) should be punished with a prison senstence. How are gay Westerners exactly expected to be the ones to hold out the olive branch to integrate them when immediately these beliefs drive such a wedge.

It is certainly a two way street and the currently the muslim minority holds far more extreme and alienating views that make this process very difficult for western countries, who overall hold much more enlightened views. Sadly with views as completely at oods with the society we have built it is up to them to do a lot of this bridge building, they are the outsiders, and they're not making it easy to be invited in

29-10-2020 9:38pm

Strazdas wrote: »

I keep reading about "integration" in this thread, but many are demanding that non nationals (especially non whites) fully integrate into a society that clearly regards them as inferior and second class citizens.

Well, think about the presence of SE Asians throughout western nations. Crime by them is generally very low. They also tend to be very productive, either starting their own small/medium sized businesses, or obtaining an education, and becoming rather successful in just about any field. In the US, and Europe, when considering any kind of "racial wage gap", Asian's often outperform white people in terms of educational accomplishments, salaries and commissions.

And integration isn't terrible strong with them. They congregate into communities of their own backgrounds (Thai, Chinese, Japanese, etc), but avoid the Ghetto style communities. There tends to be a Chinatown (or something similar) in most cities, which usually makes the area quite profitable/successful.

There is a tendency to ignore that there are nationalities/racial groups out there who, only slightly integrate into western society, but don't cause any problems... So lacking integration, why can't we expect a similar return from other migrant groups?

Integration is a two way process : both sides have to reach out, not just the new arrivals.

You should take a look at the EU commissions attempts to improve integration for all member states, and then look at the amount of funding allocated to it. It's all very well to say it's a two way street, but even in countries which were very welcoming to migrants, integration has proven remarkably difficult.

The other problem is reputation. Migrants will be judged on the behavior of those who came before them. The Polish received so much goodwill, because the Poles who came here first were great, hardworking people, who didn't cause problems. Then came a rash of scammers and thieves, but the overall impression of the Polish, remained very positive. Whereas, in France, they had a very different experience with many migrant groups who showed themselves lacking in... productive aspirations, or respectful of French culture, and as such, subsequent migrants are viewed with the same suspicion. It's basic human nature to stereotype to some degree.

29-10-2020 9:39pm

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

Thanks you just proved my point, the words you used to describe my post were very, very different.
I can see many slander cases in your future.

Point out where I misrepresented you so.

I see many apologies in your future.

boardise · 29-10-2020 9:48pm

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

Of course it is, but it's equally insane to do something that you know will ignite anger in a huge section of society for no good reason but to make fun of their beliefs.

I know what you're saying.
But the awkward corollary is that society would be granting power to people who don't scruple to trample all over the values of the law abiding majority I.e the power to make us constrain our behaviour for fear of these terror mongers perpetrating another atrocity.
That would be more an ' Intimidocracy ' than a democracy. It's a dilemma to which I have no answer.
I can debate this in the abstract but I don't know what I would do if I was a leader forced to make a decision. Who'd be Pres Macron these days ?

29-10-2020 9:59pm

boardise wrote: »

I know what you're saying.
But the awkward corollary is that society would be granting power to people who don't scruple to trample all over the values of the law abiding majority I.e the power to make us constrain our behaviour for fear of these terror mongers perpetrating another atrocity.
That would be more an ' Intimidocracy ' than a democracy. It's a dilemma to which I have no answer.
I can debate this in the abstract but I don't know what I would do if I was a leader forced to make a decision. Who'd be Pres Macron these days ?

I'd like to think I would. He has history to draw upon. Europe was strong when it's culture and values were supreme on the continent. Throughout Frances history, it has been the times when it's culture has been divided, that France has fallen in power/security. A strong Europe, or a strong France needs to take pride in their own culture, with that culture remaining dominant. It's fine to allow other cultures in, so that people can explore them, but never should those cultures be allowed to influence policy. If people wish to reside in France, then they should accept French cultural norms completely. Otherwise, they can live elsewhere.

It's no accident that the greatest amount of human rights, and protections of the individual exist in western countries... but that existence needs to be protected. I think Europeans are starting to appreciate that, after being so weak for so long...

boardise · 29-10-2020 10:02pm

Kivaro wrote: »

When news of this barbaric act broke today, there was one name that came to mind immediately................ Recep Erdogan.
The Turkish leader spent the last number of days screaming for revenge with his hateful rhetoric, and now he has it.

I would imagine that the French Secret Service might possibly take this attack on the Republic as a consequence of Erdogan's call to arms to save the French Muslims. Erdogan should fear retaliation, which will eventually come.

I read an article today about how so many Turkish immigrants or their French born children are now making advances in local elections in France . They are mainly followers of Erdogan . As their population grows , so will their political clout. Same will happen ( or already has) around Europe. Heaven knows what the upshot of all this will be.

Google ' Turkish entry to French local elections ' ...it's in the Armenian mirror spectator

Spanish Eyes · 29-10-2020 10:08pm

The non radicals will integrate and get on with their lives, and no one will take any notice.

The radicals on the other hand are evil. With evil Imams who support such radical congregations, all male anyway. Well when you can't date, talk to or meet women or have a drink or a cigarette (I know), it is easy to see how some of them must go a bit mad. But if such radicals are prepared to decapitate people, I doubt the above rules will make a difference anyway. Therein lies the problem. Too many Imams and not enough laws.

smellyoldboot · 29-10-2020 10:12pm

Throw up an oul picture of the bould paedo prophet there lads and see how long it takes for a lunatic to start writing squiggly backwards curses.

Kaybaykwah · 29-10-2020 10:14pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Well, think about the presence of SE Asians throughout western nations. Crime by them is generally very low. They also tend to be very productive, either starting their own small/medium sized businesses, or obtaining an education, and becoming rather successful in just about any field. In the US, and Europe, when considering any kind of "racial wage gap", Asian's often outperform white people in terms of educational accomplishments, salaries and commissions.

And integration isn't terrible strong with them. They congregate into communities of their own backgrounds (Thai, Chinese, Japanese, etc), but avoid the Ghetto style communities. There tends to be a Chinatown (or something similar) in most cities, which usually makes the area quite profitable/successful.

There is a tendency to ignore that there are nationalities/racial groups out there who, only slightly integrate into western society, but don't cause any problems... So lacking integration, why can't we expect a similar return from other migrant groups?

You should take a look at the EU commissions attempts to improve integration for all member states, and then look at the amount of funding allocated to it. It's all very well to say it's a two way street, but even in countries which were very welcoming to migrants, integration has proven remarkably difficult.

The other problem is reputation. Migrants will be judged on the behavior of those who came before them. The Polish received so much goodwill, because the Poles who came here first were great, hardworking people, who didn't cause problems. Then came a rash of scammers and thieves, but the overall impression of the Polish, remained very positive. Whereas, in France, they had a very different experience with many migrant groups who showed themselves lacking in... productive aspirations, or respectful of French culture, and as such, subsequent migrants are viewed with the same suspicion. It's basic human nature to stereotype to some degree.

Well, South East Asians do tend to congregate, too. There are also a fair number of Asian gangs around, to be fair.

old_aussie · 29-10-2020 10:15pm

Muslims have right to kill French: Mahathir

Hours after a muslim man killed three people in France, Former Malaysia PM Mahathir Mohamad has claimed Muslims have a right to ‘kill millions of French people’.

Looks like the Barbary Coast wars and the Gates of Vienna are about to flare up again.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/10/29/muslims-have-right-to-punish-french-says-malaysias-mahathir

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000 · 29-10-2020 10:15pm

I've posted this before and I'll post it again til the liberil lunatics of this site get it through their heads.

From the BBC. Here is muslim integration in action, of course they'll be labelled "extremists"... seems to be an awful lot of them eh?

Kaybaykwah · 29-10-2020 10:19pm

smellyoldboot wrote: »

Throw up an oul picture of the bould paedo prophet there lads and see how long it takes for a lunatic to start writing squiggly backwards curses.

Thank you.

I just put "squiggly backwards curses" in my favorite quotations scrapbook.

Wibbs · 29-10-2020 10:25pm

deBeauvoir wrote: »

I'll reply to you because it seems like I avoid you. If what you describe happened in Dubai, well that's Dubai - the reason you want to support them is so that you can have the justification to do the same here. I get it, you're not for multiculturalism, fair enough. I would imagine some people here would want to act differently in such a situation and not be as oppressive as Dubai!

I just picked Dubai out of a hat. You can insert any different to Western culture you like. If I go to say Iran I will respect their laws and culture even if they do not agree with my positions. It's basic bloody manners. If I was awarded citizenship, triple that. I would not start shouting about oppression or whatever and complaining it's not Irish/European enough. I chose to live there. Again that goes for any culture or country that differs from my own. When in Rome... Well don't piss off the Romans, call their values into question and publicly decapitate pensioners going to pray. Rome was another example of a multicultural state that generally worked, but like the later Caliphate it didn't brook much in the way of anti Roman feeling. Often enough violently so.

Progressive liberals are not all the same!

I agree, though one defining factor I've noted is a profound naivete and willingness to capitulate because compromise is sacrosanct, even if the opponent is not willing to.

I believe that having a multicultural society should be accepted by now, I just don't believe we should pretend that we all like each other and each group should stop agitating to undermine each other

So like I said before; on the one hand you do seem to agree with me that multicultural societies don't actually work too well and some demographics will never quite fit in and we should keep them at a distance? Oh and of course be real careful about winding them up.

Seriously, what are we going to do about the Muslims who are here now! (oppress them, make them convert?)

Limit the numbers of new non legal migrants coming in. Any new migrants that we do accept that commit crimes get deported. No debate. No years of appeals. Ruthlessly root out ringleaders and firebrands and hit them hard and often. Seriously limit the financial aid from overseas to such groups.

Unlike other progressives, I feel the same way for the Christians and Jews too. I don't like them being undermined too.

In Ireland Catholicism is regularly pilloried and marked out as the boogyman for all our previous and some current ills(all too conveniently. Well the truth that the majority were complicit is less palatable). Can't recall too many Catholics getting murderous over it. Jews have an easier time in that sense, but again they don't exactly number among their community too many criminals and murderers, or calls for Irish cultural change. Indeed down the decades and centuries they've contributed to Irish culture.

For everyone else, go ahead and mock them! See where that ultimately gets us!

When the fundamental cornerstone of European culture that is freedom of expression no matter what(and daft cartoons are in that mix), a freedom that many millions within a long lifetime ago fought and died face down in the mud for is being threatened by a proportion of any demographic living among us with external influences backing them, that is not the time to start capitulating. Would any majority Muslim nation capitulate in the same circumstances? Would China? Would Japan? Hell no, and they'd be right not to and I have far more respect for them on that score when compared to the current all too wishy washy weak European response.

29-10-2020 10:28pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And all of it comes back to the most basic question; why in the **** are we inviting the bull**** into our countries?!

'We', the people, aren't. It's the political class taking orders from the EU, UN etc. They're being invited in as pawns in a classic case of divide&conquer.

It's a lot harder for the EU to achieve it's planned "one superstate" when each member holds onto it's individual culture and sovereignty. So, you undermine and erode that as much as possible. Mixed and divided populations are a lot easier to rule over, and less likely to come together and resist the overall agenda.

enricoh · 29-10-2020 10:31pm

Was on the news there that the attacker left morocco a month ago, crossed the med n got to the italian island lampedusa. Made his way to France from there.
I wonder was he onboard the multimillionaire banksys migrant boat? These do-gooders should have their boats scuttled by the italians.
https://www.euronews.com/2020/08/29/street-artist-banky-s-boat-requests-ugent-assistance

29-10-2020 10:32pm

Strazdas wrote: »

I keep reading about "integration" in this thread, but many are demanding that non nationals (especially non whites) fully integrate into a society that clearly regards them as inferior and second class citizens. Integration is a two way process : both sides have to reach out, not just the new arrivals.

No. No they don't. We usually would do, but no. The onus is on the immigrant to assimilate to the host nation, not the other way around.

old_aussie · 29-10-2020 10:32pm

positron wrote: »

I am concerned by the lack of reaction from rest of the European nations.

What, you're unable to hear the "we told you so" of Poland?

dzsfah2xoynme9 · 29-10-2020 10:32pm

Apparently this lad only came to France a few weeks ago after landing in Italy in September. Close to Borders to all these people and counties until they can be properly vetted and checked. Until then we'll have more instances like Nice. Or better yet don't let them in at all if they don't want to integrate and respect the country that helped them..

https://www.thejournal.ie/two-people-dead-knife-attack-nice-france-5247973-Oct2020/

AlphaDelta1 · 29-10-2020 10:33pm

Is the Irish navy still working as a taxi service for these Islamists?

29-10-2020 10:35pm

Kaybaykwah wrote: »

Well, South East Asians do tend to congregate, too.

Err... I said that they did. The result of that congregation/community is far different though. no?

There are also a fair number of Asian gangs around, to be fair.

Sure, there are, but it's confined to general crime, rather than hate crimes, or connected with politics/religion. Now, Australia and the US has far greater problems with Asian related crime, but Europe has few problems except with some Vietnamese groups. All the same, as a racial group, SE Asians outperform everyone else, and integration isn't a very high aspect of their lives in the West.

AlphaDelta1 · 29-10-2020 10:37pm

Hunky Monster wrote: »

I've posted this before and I'll post it again til the liberil lunatics of this site get it through their heads.

From the BBC. Here is muslim integration in action, of course they'll be labelled "extremists"... seems to be an awful lot of them eh?

Coming to a town near you.

statesaver · 29-10-2020 10:46pm

Hunky Monster wrote: »

I've posted this before and I'll post it again til the liberil lunatics of this site get it through their heads.

From the BBC. Here is muslim integration in action, of course they'll be labelled "extremists"... seems to be an awful lot of them eh?

Cultural enrichment, surely. :mad:

Pkiernan · 29-10-2020 10:52pm

The beheader in this case was one of the poor oppressed migrants that Bob Geldof told us to put up in our houses .

Kaybaykwah · 29-10-2020 10:57pm

Pkiernan wrote: »

The beheader in this case was one of the poor oppressed migrants that Bob Geldof told us to put up in our houses .

Shhhshh! I hear he has a couple of them cleaning his basement.

Three dead as woman beheaded in France

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