Three dead as woman beheaded in France

John Frank Wilson · 29-10-2020 8:30pm

FyodorD wrote: »

Looks like a troll trying to parody libs

I'm not sure you're allowed say the 't' word any more... I think the correct, less aggressive term is 'People-that-live-under-bridges'.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000 · 29-10-2020 8:31pm

deBeauvoir wrote: »

I don't justify killing innocent people. But I also don't support agitating people who we are trying to include in our society. Chances are if people didn't draw a cartoon of Muhammad to provoke Muslims and instead developed relationships or just left them be this incident wouldn't have happened.

The secular atheists think society should be atheistic and they feel the need to undermine their competitors, so they come up with these methods of ridicule, which I think are cheap shots to turn people including Muslims against their own religion. And then lie and pretend they welcome Muslims into our society and that they embrace a multicultural society.

Absolutely incredible. Someone draws a CARTOON and you think somehow that the killing of innocents is equal to that "crime".

The western world revolves around the thought of free speech. It's an absolutely disgrace you think like this. Take a good long look in the mirror for yourself.

Kaybaykwah · 29-10-2020 8:35pm

deBeauvoir wrote: »

Yeah, I'm going to stop now. Not because it's a parody, but because I'm getting too much caught up in the arguments that I'm detracting from the title.

I sincerely didn't want innocent people to be killed by Muslims, but I think if people didn't agitate each other so much for social hegemony and left each other alone we'd have less of these events. Having a multicultural society was going to have its ups and downs, but things would settle better if we agitate so much.

I don't see how people are going to resolve this without admitting to the contradictions in their beliefs!

You are just ignoring the fact that your free speech is the result of openness to open debate.

Most people are open to the fact that religious practice is an individual choice and that is a respected aspect of open societies. It is not up to Host countries to adapt to unsavory customs of immigrant cultures. Luckily, there is a happy medium; discussion.

If you propose that we should do away with the potential questioning of certain practices, then, you allow for uncritical stances toward bad behavior in the local, established population.

If abortion is up for debate, then debate it, don't sweep it under the rug. Why should debate be deemed disrespectful?

29-10-2020 8:36pm

deBeauvoir wrote: »

I sincerely didn't want innocent people to be killed by Muslims, but I think if people didn't agitate each other so much for social hegemony and left each other alone we'd have less of these events. Having a multicultural society was going to have its ups and downs, but things would settle better if we agitate so much.!

It's simply giving us a glimpse of our future living along side Islam. You wont appease their demands for long as their relative size of the population grows. Today it's a cartoon tomorrow it will be something else.

Spanish Eyes · 29-10-2020 8:38pm

This monster arrived unidentified from Tunisia via Lampedusa according to reports, I could be wrong.

Apparently he gave a false name but was identified by fingerprints. I wonder how? Presumably his prints were taken on entering France, and he was allowed to wander and kill.

This is a total mess now. I'm listening to a lot of apologists from the Muslim community in France with tears in their eyes for the Catholiques en France etc.

Will some Imam (there is a lot to be said for another Mass and a single Pope), who will just come out and ORDER their congregation to stop all this right now and grass on the possible radical reprobates. Probably very naive of me but it would be a signal, so we could accept that a good number of Muslims just live their lives quietly and lawfully, but there are those who never will. They should be the targets, and it should happen Pdq now. There is no excuse for this horror.

29-10-2020 8:41pm

deBeauvoir wrote: »

I don't justify killing innocent people. But I also don't support agitating people who we are trying to include in our society. Chances are if people didn't draw a cartoon of Muhammad to provoke Muslims and instead developed relationships or just left them be this incident wouldn't have happened.

Bless your bleeding heart, but your tolerance won't be reciprocated

deBeauvoir · 29-10-2020 8:42pm

Wibbs wrote: »

The threat of violence and death by some among their number, including quite the number of clerics with quite widespread tacit support(read the surveys in the UK into Muslim attitudes to Gay people for example) and this threat too often leading to the public execution of fellow citizens seems like quite the imposition to me. Maybe we have different interpretations of the word.

Again to reverse this narrative: If a bunch of Christians, or athiests for that matter living in Dubai were clamouring for special dispensations against the Muslim majority and backing that with threats and actual outbreaks of violence, I would fully 100% support the Dubai authorities if they wanted to stamp that out and throw them out. Same if similar was tried anywhere against any majority culture.

A great example of this daft and recent mindset to be found in the West. Oddly popular among some nerds who think Star Trek will be the future.

And then you come out with this...
So further ghettoisation is your plan? It seems you yourself don't buy into the "melting pot" of multiculturalism and agree it doesn't work. Grand so.

I'll reply to you because it seems like I avoid you. If what you describe happened in Dubai, well that's Dubai - the reason you want to support them is so that you can have the justification to do the same here. I get it, you're not for multiculturalism, fair enough. I would imagine some people here would want to act differently in such a situation and not be as oppressive as Dubai!

Progressive liberals are not all the same! I believe that having a multicultural society should be accepted by now, I just don't believe we should pretend that we all like each other and each group should stop agitating to undermine each other

Seriously, what are we going to do about the Muslims who are here now! (oppress them, make them convert?) Unlike other progressives, I feel the same way for the Christians and Jews too. I don't like them being undermined too.

For everyone else, go ahead and mock them! See where that ultimately gets us!

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000 · 29-10-2020 8:42pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Bless your bleeding heart, but your tolerance won't be reciprocated

Isnt islam that religion most famous for it's tolerance?

Dyr · 29-10-2020 8:44pm

Je suis *insert current name*

Thoughts and Prayers

Nothing to see

Move on

Limpy · 29-10-2020 8:45pm

We should arm the Iranians as they are enemies of this type of radical islam. All the way to Mecca, kill the serpent at its head.

bb1234567 · 29-10-2020 8:46pm

completedit wrote: »

It doesn't achieve anything. It's not funny or edgy, none of our lives are better because the prophet Muhammad is depicted in a picture.
So many aspects of life are restricted for the greater good and this is one of those cases. Ideally everything would be fair game but sometimes there will be taboos and this is one of them.

Right, and where do you draw the line. If a tiny Muslim minority of Europe suddenly decides a certain thing we eat or do or say is horrendously offensive and punishable by death do we also stop doing this out of fear of being murdered by them, and in fact propose laws or societal rules that prevent us from partaking in these arbitrary activities which are now considered offensive (for our own safety, of course!) . I literally am in disbelief that people hold these kind of views, scary to think what would happen to our society, such a slippery slop.

Limpy · 29-10-2020 8:51pm

bb1234567 wrote: »

Right, and where do you draw the line. If a tiny Muslim minority of Europe suddenly decides a certain thing we eat or do or say is horrendously offensive and punishable by death do we also stop doing this to please them?

What you do is you say to these people, this is they way we are doing things here. If you find that our society and value's (or a cartoon) offends you then get back on the Boat a piss off.

29-10-2020 8:52pm

In my town there's free English classes put on and the South Americans participate, Eastern Europeans, Africans too. The ladies in headscarves can only be seated with women and it's usually not long before they stop coming. Can't have them getting ideas being out and about.

Channel 4 (that hotbed of right-wing extremism) had their poll of 1000 muslims and documentary a few years ago.
52% said homosexuality shouldn't be legal in the UK.
47% said it's unacceptable for a teacher to be gay (35% strongly)
32% refused to condemn those who take part in violence against those who mock the prophet.
39% agree women should always obey their husband
31% think it's acceptable for a British Muslim to have more than one wife

More "positive" results included
A large majority of British Muslims feel a strong sense of belonging to their local area (91%). This is higher than the national average (76%)
I sure do wonder why. :rolleyes:
78% of British Muslims would like to integrate into British life on most things apart from Islamic schooling and some laws.
Oh well that's good, just education and some laws they don't want to follow.

There are other more "postive" results but Christ how anyone can look at that and say "More please" is ****ing beyond me. Link anyway.

Spanish Eyes · 29-10-2020 8:54pm

Sadly I think this is just another murder spree by a lunatic. Did anything happen after the truck drove into people in Nice?

I don't think so, but maybe the intelligence services are beavering away in the background just the same. But they allowed this moron in, and didn't follow up either.

Until the mosques condemn this kind of thing, it will not stop. The first place these immigrants from the boats will go is to their local mosque for connections and support. As Irish did with the Irish communities and their churches. But I doubt they decapitated any Baptists or Mormons etc.

Evil bast@rds.

jam_mac_jam · 29-10-2020 8:55pm

There were terrorist attacks before the cartoons and in countries that didn't have any cartoons. So putting blame on anything to do with cartoons is missing the problem. If it's not cartoons it will be some other invented bull**** reason.

Gruffalux · 29-10-2020 9:00pm

deBeauvoir wrote: »

Progressive liberals are not all the same! I believe that having a multicultural society should be accepted by now, I just don't believe we should pretend that we all like each other and each group should stop agitating to undermine each other

Seriously, what are we going to do about the Muslims who are here now! (oppress them, make them convert?) Unlike other progressives, I feel the same way for the Christians and Jews too. I don't like them being undermined too.

For everyone else, go ahead and mock them! See where that ultimately gets us!

What we are going to HAVE to do is say to people, fair enough, you have a religion, you have a set of cultural beliefs, cool stuff, enjoy it, but as long as you live here in a part of the world that has passed through the enlightenment, the advent of modernity, equal rights, cultural revolutions etc etc, you will strictly not cut your girl's clitoris off, you will not prevent women from entering cafes ir any other place of their choosing, you will not substitute your children's literacy and numeracy with mindless repetition of verses, you will not enforce hijab or the wearing of any hair covering upon females in your community, you will not kill apostates, you will not punish those who commit adultery or practise homosexuality, you will not operate religious courts that have precedence over local civil law, you will not permit religious leaders to speak hate speech against the non-religious from pulpits in public buildings, you will not refuse to shake hands and be civil to people outside your religion, you will not marry your girls below the civil legal age either here or abroad, you will tolerate satire, art, literature, political and academic critique that mocks your beliefs as it does occasionally to anyones, etc etc and you will condemn and excommunicate those who slaughter in the name of Allah.

Then it has a fair chance to be better.

bb1234567 · 29-10-2020 9:00pm

deBeauvoir wrote: »

Democracy is determined by the people and if their attitudes and preferences change so does their country and society.

Wtf? A democratic country's population can hold very conservative and stubbornly unchanging views, the only thing that matters in maintaining status as a democratic country is if the laws represent those views and attitudes

Mules · 29-10-2020 9:01pm

Both attacks within the last fortnight were carried out by foreigners. I don't understand why these people moved to France when they seem to hate both France and French people. Nobody made them move to France or stay there.

Limpy · 29-10-2020 9:02pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

In my town there's free English classes put on and the South Americans participate, Eastern Europeans, Africans too. The ladies in headscarves can only be seated with women and it's usually not long before they stop coming. Can't have them getting ideas being out and about.

Channel 4 (that hotbed of right-wing extremism) had their poll of 1000 muslims and documentary a few years ago.
52% said homosexuality shouldn't be legal in the UK.
47% said it's unacceptable for a teacher to be gay (35% strongly)
32% refused to condemn those who take part in violence against those who mock the prophet.
39% agree women should always obey their husband
31% think it's acceptable for a British Muslim to have more than one wife

More "positive" results included
A large majority of British Muslims feel a strong sense of belonging to their local area (91%). This is higher than the national average (76%)
I sure do wonder why. :rolleyes:
78% of British Muslims would like to integrate into British life on most things apart from Islamic schooling and some laws.
Oh well that's good, just education and some laws they don't want to follow.

There are other more "postive" results but Christ how anyone can look at that and say "More please" is ****ing beyond me. Link anyway.

Any data on how many Muslims would like Sharia law to be the Only law, even though we all know that its unofficially the law they follow in the west.

They could legally marry kids then.

Strazdas · 29-10-2020 9:03pm

Deleted User wrote: »

In my town there's free English classes put on and the South Americans participate, Eastern Europeans, Africans too. The ladies in headscarves can only be seated with women and it's usually not long before they stop coming. Can't have them getting ideas being out and about.

Channel 4 (that hotbed of right-wing extremism) had their poll of 1000 muslims and documentary a few years ago.
52% said homosexuality shouldn't be legal in the UK.
47% said it's unacceptable for a teacher to be gay (35% strongly)
32% refused to condemn those who take part in violence against those who mock the prophet.
39% agree women should always obey their husband
31% think it's acceptable for a British Muslim to have more than one wife

More "positive" results included
A large majority of British Muslims feel a strong sense of belonging to their local area (91%). This is higher than the national average (76%)
I sure do wonder why. :rolleyes:
78% of British Muslims would like to integrate into British life on most things apart from Islamic schooling and some laws.
Oh well that's good, just education and some laws they don't want to follow.

There are other more "postive" results but Christ how anyone can look at that and say "More please" is ****ing beyond me. Link anyway.

A lot of bigotry, intolerance and repugnant views on both sides of the fence, yes?

statesaver · 29-10-2020 9:04pm

Gruffalux wrote: »

What we are going to HAVE to do is say to people, fair enough, you have a religion, you have a set of cultural beliefs, cool stuff, enjoy it, but as long as you live here in a part of the world that has passed through the enlightenment, the advent of modernity, equal rights, cultural revolutions etc etc, you will strictly not cut your girl's clitoris off, you will not prevent women from entering cafes ir any other place of their choosing, you will not substitute your children's literacy and numeracy with mindless repetition of verses, you will not enforce hijab or the wearing of any hair covering upon females in your community, you will not kill apostates, you will not punish those who commit adultery or practise homosexuality, you will not operate religious courts that have precedence over local civil law, you will not permit religious leaders to speak hate speech against the non-religious from pulpits in public buildings, you will not refuse to shake hands and be civil to people outside your religion, you will not marry your girls below the civil legal age either here or abroad, you will tolerate satire, art, literature, political and academic critique that mocks your beliefs as it does occasionally to anyones, etc etc and you will condemn and excommunicate those who slaughter in the name of Allah.

Then it has a fair chance to be better.

Lots of what you posted sounds like the UK and France, but they still get attacked by savages.

29-10-2020 9:06pm

As for Sharia, there are already Sharia courts in the UK. The enlightened will tell us they're only used by consent of the participants, I'm sure everyone who partakes does so without any duress. :rolleyes: Or, more likely, they don't know they have the option. Then the argument is that the state should protect women from such courts, but isn't that interfering. And all of it comes back to the most basic question; why in the **** are we inviting the bull**** into our countries?!

positron · 29-10-2020 9:06pm

I am concerned by the lack of reaction from rest of the European nations.

Why isn't everyone out there projecting the Muhammad cartoons onto their public buildings? I would love to see it projected on GPO, Custom House etc.
This is the moment we all need to stand up and show we are with France.
Nothing against Islam, but everyone together against extremists.

smellyoldboot · 29-10-2020 9:06pm

raclle wrote: »

but how do you route out the Islamic fascists?

Simple. It goes like this: You ask them any variant of "Are you a practicing Muslim" or "Do you believe in the teachings of the Quran". If answer equals yes, that person is either a fascist or defective moron. You immediately deport in either instance. If they keep coming back you need another solution...

raclle · 29-10-2020 9:07pm

statesaver wrote: »

Lots of what you posted sounds like the UK and France, but they still get attacked by savages.

Well if they cant abide by the laws they can leave. I'm so ****ing angry right now and in a fit of emotional state to say f**k the lot of them and deport every single one back to their own country.

29-10-2020 9:08pm

Strazdas wrote: »

A lot of bigotry, intolerance and repugnant views on both sides of the fence, yes?

There's a fence now? Sure I thought we were all in one big pot.
Which of those compare to not condemning violence carried out for insulting the prophet or that homosexuality should be illegal?
Oh but almost half of people might assume the race of someone called D'ante or Doug, same thing. ****ing nonsense.

Strazdas · 29-10-2020 9:13pm

Deleted User wrote: »

There's a fence now? Sure I thought we were all in one big pot.
Which of those compare to not condemning violence carried out for insulting the prophet or that homosexuality should be illegal?
Oh but almost half of people might assume the race of someone called D'ante or Doug, same thing. ****ing nonsense.

One in three people say they dislike hearing any language other than English on British streets. The same people will tell you "Oh, but I'm certainly not a racist....I'm the most tolerant person you could meet".

29-10-2020 9:13pm

positron wrote: »

I am concerned by the lack of reaction from rest of the European nations.

Why isn't everyone out there projecting the Muhammad cartoons onto their public buildings? I would love to see it projected on GPO, Custom House etc.
This is the moment we all need to stand up and show we are with France.
Nothing against Islam, but everyone together against extremists.

Fear.
It's too late now. It's reached critical mass in most of Western Europe where we must "respect" nonsense. And that's the problem. Most people can't be arsed mocking religion but being afraid to do it shouldn't be how our society is.
Remember this? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everybody_Draw_Mohammed_Day Apparently in 2017 she was still in hiding. She should've known better I guess.

Kivaro · 29-10-2020 9:13pm

When news of this barbaric act broke today, there was one name that came to mind immediately................ Recep Erdogan.
The Turkish leader spent the last number of days screaming for revenge with his hateful rhetoric, and now he has it.

I would imagine that the French Secret Service might possibly take this attack on the Republic as a consequence of Erdogan's call to arms to save the French Muslims. Erdogan should fear retaliation, which will eventually come.

bb1234567 · 29-10-2020 9:16pm

Strazdas wrote: »

A lot of bigotry, intolerance and repugnant views on both sides of the fence, yes?

This does not help your point whatsoever. How many Brits in this survey are proposing different laws for those of other races?

Big ****in difference between being offensive to somebody based on their race and proposing different laws for other citizens of your country based on who they are attracted to, more than half of muslims in that survey you quoted supporting homosexuality being made illegal. Absolutely unbelievable that's being defended or at the very least rather pathetically an attempt being made to somehow equate an inconsequential opinion polls about comparatively minor offences somehow being on an equal footing in terms of societal impact from this prejudice

Your energy would be much better spent trying to discuss how the situation with deep seathed hatred toward minorities and those with opposing views among the Muslim community might be improved. Yep intolerance on both sides, certainly looks like it is heavily weighted towards the Muslim community though if we are to compare the poll you quoted and the one you provided in defence.

Three dead as woman beheaded in France

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