Covid 19 Part XXVII- 62,002 ROI (1,915 deaths) 39,609 NI (724 deaths) (02/11) Read OP

TomSweeney · 28-10-2020 09:53AM

hmmm wrote: »

The virus isn't going to take Christmas off unfortunately. We could have one "blow-out" week, but we then have an explosion of cases afterwards. I know in our house we would have a large dinner, about 4 generations, and then visit relatives afterwards. We can't do that in a pandemic, one infected person and you could have an entire family infected.

I didn't see the Prime Time tonight, but I'm glad to hear that one of the people they interviewed made the point that we can't (shouldn't) have a normal Christmas this year. If we have a different Christmas this year, we'll have everyone alive around the table next year.

Honestly think some people are loving the misery porn

Would you go away with that doom mongering nonsense !!!

Here are death rates to put it in perspective.

Even Granny has a 94.6% chance of "being at the table next year" ... unless she dies of old age ??? - ah yeah but that's ok to die of anything other than covid.

We really have let it skew our perspective on life.

Russman · 28-10-2020 09:55AM

Deshawn wrote: »

He doesn't have to have a solution.

Then what’s the point of the post ? A rant at government underinvestment or mismanagement of the health service over decades ? I think absolutely everyone would agree with that, it’s hardly news.

If we open up, the hospitals will eventually break down and regular stuff will be cancelled anyway, as we see in Europe. The best way of getting screening etc back open is to suppress the virus as much as we can first.

pjohnson · 28-10-2020 09:56AM

lawred2 wrote: »

Don't run down essential services for a start ffs

Hardly a no brainer

Probably need a referendum to decide tbf.

is_that_so · 28-10-2020 09:57AM

kittensmittens wrote: »

There is now a 3 YEAR BACKLOG in breast cancer screening. It only reopened yesterday.

There are 153 THOUSAND women affected by this. Have a wee read of that number again. 153 THOUSAND. And you can bet your bottom dollar, within that figure there will be deaths due to late detection and treatment due to covid taking precedent.

But hey, I'm sure that when those women are dying and leaving husbands, children and families behind for what may have been avoidable if they had of been treated, that they will die knowing they "held firm".

It's really not deaths from/with COVID that are the issue, if allowed to run unchecked the health system comes under stress and and you find everything stops. In an ideal perfectly running health system we could do all of it but for now a still little-understood virus is at the centre of all we do.

Boggles · 28-10-2020 09:57AM

wellwhynot wrote: »

A nurse said most of the Covid positive patients in her ICU were young men who attempted suicide.

Wow. Not even 9 o'clock.

:rolleyes:

Russman · 28-10-2020 09:58AM

lawred2 wrote: »

Don't run down essential services for a start ffs

Hardly a no brainer

Unfortunately we can’t go back and not run down services in April.
I’ve no issue at all in trying to keep essential services open if we can, but there will inevitably have to be a line drawn somewhere, the question is, where is that somewhere.

Funsterdelux · 28-10-2020 09:59AM

After 2 weeks of multiple health screens and asking everyone to quarantine, I surprised my closest inner circle with a trip to a private island where we could pretend things were normal just for a brief moment in time.

is_that_so · 28-10-2020 09:59AM

pjohnson wrote: »

Probably need a referendum to decide tbf.

We don't do popular referenda, just Constitutional ones. Such votes have no power anyway and you can get the same information through market research.

pjohnson · 28-10-2020 10:00AM

TomSweeney wrote: »

Honestly think some people are loving the misery porn

Would you go away with that doom mongering nonsense !!!

Ah back to the "mongering" posts again. Makes slightly more sense than healthcare by referendum.

Some people do love misery. Hence their sudden obsessions with cancer and/or suicides.

lawred2 · 28-10-2020 10:00AM

pjohnson wrote: »

Probably need a referendum to decide tbf.

referendum to decide what?

screamer · 28-10-2020 10:01AM

Russman wrote: »

Then what’s the point of the post ? A rant at government underinvestment or mismanagement of the health service over decades ? I think absolutely everyone would agree with that, it’s hardly news.

If we open up, the hospitals will eventually break down and regular stuff will be cancelled anyway, as we see in Europe. The best way of getting screening etc back open is to suppress the virus as much as we can first.

Disagree, that’s not living with covid, it’s hiding from it. There are ways that the screening could continue, as the saying goes, where there’s a will there’s a way, but this is the problem, there is no will from our leaders, they are fully being led by the nose by Nphet, blinkered to all else.

pjohnson · 28-10-2020 10:01AM

is_that_so wrote: »

We don't do popular referenda, just Constitutional ones. Such votes have no power anyway and you can get the same information through market research.

Hey last nights "solution" to covid was referenda for some reason. That appeared to be the "open up" solution.

lawred2 wrote: »

referendum to decide what?

God knows what tbf but thats apparently what country needs to sort covid :pac:

Russman · 28-10-2020 10:02AM

kittensmittens wrote: »

My solution?

Not throwing the baby out with the bath water. Covid is an illness. One claiming very few lives. Between the breast cancer backlog and the cervical cancer screening backlog, thats an awful lot of women going through painful testing, heartbreaking worry, horrible painful treatments and surgeries. But its not up to mere mortals like me to offer solutions(nor by the tone of your 2 word post to indeed even question these figures)
Nope its up to the likes of Dr Tony Holohan..........oh wait

If your post is to highlight the shambles our health service is, I 100% agree with you. And I don’t doubt for a second the ordeal of cancer patients, we all probably have family members or friends affected, but what are the government to do ? They’ve literally no hand to play.

Widdensushi · 28-10-2020 10:04AM

TomSweeney wrote: »

Honestly think some people are loving the misery porn

Would you go away with that doom mongering nonsense !!!

Here are death rates to put it in perspective.

Even Granny has a 94.6% chance of "being at the table next year" ... unless she dies of old age ??? - ah yeah but that's ok to die of anything other than covid.

We really have let it skew our perspective on life.

Granny would have a better chance than that, women have a better survival rate

Russman · 28-10-2020 10:04AM

screamer wrote: »

Disagree, that’s not living with covid, it’s hiding from it. There are ways that the screening could continue, as the saying goes, where there’s a will there’s a way, but this is the problem, there is no will from our leaders, they are fully being led by the nose by Nphet, blinkered to all else.

There is no living with covid. That’s (in my opinion) the reality we have to accept. It’s a sh1t situation, with sh1t options.

screamer · 28-10-2020 10:07AM

Russman wrote: »

If your post is to highlight the shambles our health service is, I 100% agree with you. And I don’t doubt for a second the ordeal of cancer patients, we all probably have family members or friends affected, but what are the government to do ? They’ve literally no hand to play.

Course they have, or had. They wasted it. Bought all the capacity in private hospitals earlier this year and utterly wasted it....... now that we know better how to treat covid, it’s entirely possible to buy some capacity and continue with the non covid but urgent cases. But no, too hard to do, too much red tape, so say all of them. More like they blew the budgets earlier this year listening to Feck it, I mean Nphet and now, for all urgent non covid issues, we just take our chances.....

wellwhynot · 28-10-2020 10:10AM

Ireland Death Rates by Age Covid Positive Swabs October

Over 85 = 27
75 - 84 = 26
65 - 74 = 11
55 - 64 = 5
Under 54 = 1

Flu all but disappeared. There are those that want to believe we are still dealing with the Spanish flu and those of us that can see we are clearly not.

A positive swab should never be called a case. If 80% of the general public have no symptoms/mild symptoms, it is reasonable to assume that many in hospital are the same. If the hospitals are over run as they are every other winter blame the people who are responsible for the mismanagement of our health service to date, namely the senior public servants who make up NPHET.

Russman · 28-10-2020 10:11AM

screamer wrote: »

Course they have, or had. They wasted it. Bought all the capacity in private hospitals earlier this year and utterly wasted it....... now that we know better how to treat covid, it’s entirely possible to buy some capacity and continue with the non covid but urgent cases. But no, too hard to do, too much red tape, so say all of them. More like they blew the budgets earlier this year listening to Feck it, I mean Nphet and now, for all urgent non covid issues, we just take our chances.....

But that’s completely with the benefit of hindsight. Do you honestly think they would have spent all those millions if they thought we wouldn’t need the capacity ?
I’m not suggesting they’re perfect, far from it, I just honestly can’t see what options they had at the time.

is_that_so · 28-10-2020 10:12AM

screamer wrote: »

Course they have, or had. They wasted it. Bought all the capacity in private hospitals earlier this year and utterly wasted it....... now that we know better how to treat covid, it’s entirely possible to buy some capacity and continue with the non covid but urgent cases. But no, too hard to do, too much red tape, so say all of them. More like they blew the budgets earlier this year listening to Feck it, I mean Nphet and now, for all urgent non covid issues, we just take our chances.....

The unanimous medical consensus at that time was to suspend every screening programme. It was deemed too dangerous. As for private hospitals they were supposed to be supporting a normal health system, but we didn't do much normal as it turned out. That's hardly the HSE's fault.

TonyMaloney · 28-10-2020 10:14AM

wellwhynot wrote: »

Ireland Death Rates by Age Covid Positive Swabs October

Over 85 = 27
75 - 84 = 26
65 - 74 = 11
55 - 64 = 5
Under 54 = 1

Flu all but disappeared. There are those that want to believe we are still dealing with the Spanish flu and those of us that can see we are clearly not.

A positive swab should never be called a case. If 80% of the general public have no symptoms/mild symptoms, it is reasonable to assume that many in hospital are the same. If the hospitals are over run as they are every other winter blame the people who are responsible for the mismanagement of our health service to date, namely the senior public servants who make up NPHET.

I know mate. They do the same with HIV. It's ridiculous!!!

If we didn't test for asymptomatic HIV cases there would basically be nobody with HIV/AIDS and the virus would surely just disapear.

Russman · 28-10-2020 10:15AM

wellwhynot wrote: »

Ireland Death Rates by Age Covid Positive Swabs October

Over 85 = 27
75 - 84 = 26
65 - 74 = 11
55 - 64 = 5
Under 54 = 1

Flu all but disappeared. There are those that want to believe we are still dealing with the Spanish flu and those of us that can see we are clearly not.

A positive swab should never be called a case. If 80% of the general public have no symptoms/mild symptoms, it is reasonable to assume that many in hospital are the same. If the hospitals are over run as they are every other winter blame the people who are responsible for the mismanagement of our health service to date, namely the senior public servants who make up NPHET.

Along with maybe the unions that resist reform and change, and the layers of middle management. No issue with front line staff their hands are tied.

kittensmittens · 28-10-2020 10:16AM

Russman wrote: »

If your post is to highlight the shambles our health service is, I 100% agree with you. And I don’t doubt for a second the ordeal of cancer patients, we all probably have family members or friends affected, but what are the government to do ? They’ve literally no hand to play.

With all due respect, but this is where we find ourselves? Giving them a get out of jail card in the auld oirish way "ah shure they're great lads dem big top docs and de people running de country...shure what would an aul gombeen like me or the likes of me know about any of this complicated bisnis, begorah begorah"

Sorry but I dont buy in. This is their JOB!! And if the government or the people they employ in these roles as advisorsbe that medical advisors or political ones, can say litereally "Shure look lads, we've run out of options. We creamed the taxpayers for years in office and our buddies in the HSE did likewise, but now that its a sh1t show, yis are on your sweeney"

is_that_so · 28-10-2020 10:17AM

Russman wrote: »

Along with maybe the unions that resist reform and change, and the layers of middle management. No issue with front line staff their hands are tied.

There are issues with some of these as well. Being front line doesn't make you pure of heart and immune to all that ails the HSE.

wellwhynot · 28-10-2020 10:18AM

Russman wrote: »

But that’s completely with the benefit of hindsight. Do you honestly think they would have spent all those millions if they thought we wouldn’t need the capacity ?
I’m not suggesting they’re perfect, far from it, I just honestly can’t see what options they had at the time.

Sweden doubled their ICU capacity within a couple of months. We know our hospitals are overrun every single winter. NPHET, Paul Reid and the government were too busy on the media circuit to do anything meaningful. If we diverted the billions wasted since May paying healthy people to sit at home and swabbing people with a runny nose we could have improved our health services.

28-10-2020 10:20AM

wellwhynot wrote: »

Publish Covid positive swab versus Covid with symptoms patients, particularly in the hospitals. A nurse said most of the Covid positive patients in her ICU were young men who attempted suicide. Protect the elderly more. Take over hotels and move Covid positive cases there. We still have 45% acquiring Covid in hospitals.

What are you raving about?

Stheno · 28-10-2020 10:20AM

TonyMaloney wrote: »

I know mate. They do the same with HIV. It's ridiculous!!!

If we didn't test for asymptomatic HIV cases there would basically be nobody with HIV/AIDS and the virus would surely just disapear.

Jesus talk about a logic fail

screamer · 28-10-2020 10:20AM

is_that_so wrote: »

The unanimous medical consensus at that time was to suspend every screening programme. It was deemed too dangerous. As for private hospitals they were supposed to be supporting a normal health system, but we didn't do much normal as it turned out. That's hardly the HSE's fault.

That was then, this is now. With the benefit of hindsight, they should be able to make better decisions now, but no, just hide under a rock, slap on the ould level 5 lockdown jacket and everyone for themselves. We are devoid of leadership we have leadersheep.

is_that_so · 28-10-2020 10:22AM

wellwhynot wrote: »

Sweden doubled their ICU capacity within a couple of months. We know our hospitals are overrun every single winter. NPHET, Paul Reid and the government were too busy on the media circuit to do anything meaningful. If we diverted the billions wasted since May paying healthy people to sit at home and swabbing people with a runny nose we could have improved our health services.

It's actually a staffing issue not money. It's very hard to attract the hundreds even thousands needed when a lot of other health systems are dipping into the same pool to recruit.

28-10-2020 10:22AM

Stheno wrote: »

Jesus talk about a logic fail

I presumed he was taking the piss.

iamwhoiam · 28-10-2020 10:24AM

is_that_so wrote: »

It's actually a staffing issue not money. It's very hard to attract the hundreds even thousands needed when a lot of other health systems are dipping into the same pool to recruit.

And paying them bettter and treating them far bettter

Covid 19 Part XXVII- 62,002 ROI (1,915 deaths) 39,609 NI (724 deaths) (02/11) Read OP

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