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rsa supporting e-scooters

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    #512
    Macy0161
    Registered Users Posts: 9,288 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    anecdotally, i'm hearing claims that they're displacing public transport journeys rather than car journeys. i suspect there's an element of truth in that, but to what extent, i don't know.
    Yes, and while Public Transport is at such a reduced capacity, it makes you wonder what the delay is in regulating them.

    However, once people see the benefits, will they return to Public Transport? One of the main excuses (and in fairness, in some cases it is reasonable) in people not switching to cars is public transport capacity.

    I'd also agree with Liamog, that they could regulate the ones that go faster and for ebikes that break the current regulations. Both of which may still be more attractive than a moped (particularly in terms of storage).

    I'm not holding my breadth, given the laws governing cycling are still in inches, feet and yards. But escooters are already at a critical mass imo, that it's too late to think they aren't here to stay at the same licencing and insurance regime as bicycles and ebikes.


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    #513
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 17,848 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    anecdotally, i'm hearing claims that they're displacing public transport journeys rather than car journeys. i suspect there's an element of truth in that, but to what extent, i don't know.

    most people on scooters are in their twenties and probably the group least likely to be car owners or at least to be able to commute into the city with a car. So yep I'd say public transport is the alternative here.

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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    #514
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,459 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    thebronze14 wrote: »
    My main gripes with them are the lack of proper lights or reflective gear most of them don't seem to wear. This is particularly important with the hour going back and travelling back from work in the dark. I also see a number of my ex students on them at 12/13 years old and this is far too young to be on the road safely


    What colour is your car?
    amadangomor wrote: »
    Prick on one almost creamed me on a footpath few weeks ago. Was looking at some bees in a flowerbed on edge and walked back out and glanced him as I turned around while he was whizzing past me.

    There was a bike lane so no way should he have been on the footpath. What comeback would I have if I was seriously injured in this case. Surely they should have to be insured.

    I'd suggest that they should almost have insurance to cover all these incidents where they almost kill people.

    Meanwhile, we have 100k-150k uninsured drivers on the road.


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    #515
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,478 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    beauf wrote: »
    All these suggestions have already been done, in other countries.
    any examples? i.e. what could we copy and paste?

    personally, i think the two main things would be a speed and/or power limitation, and regs on lights.


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    #516
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 13,811 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    amadangomor wrote: »
    Prick on one almost creamed me on a footpath few weeks ago. Was looking at some bees in a flowerbed on edge and walked back out and glanced him as I turned around while he was whizzing past me.

    There was a bike lane so no way should he have been on the footpath. What comeback would I have if I was seriously injured in this case. Surely they should have to be insured.

    All of these stories are the same, you were "nearly" hit by cyclists or scooters on footpaths. But it never actually seems to happen!


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    #517
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    thebronze14 wrote: »
    My main gripes with them are the lack of proper lights or reflective gear most of them don't seem to wear. This is particularly important with the hour going back and travelling back from work in the dark. I also see a number of my ex students on them at 12/13 years old and this is far too young to be on the road safely

    If it was a bicycle lights would be a legal requirement and more effective than Hi Viz. Bu they hardly enforce that anyway.

    The problem is a lack of enforcement not a lack rules.

    No point adding more rules that you won't enforce either.


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    #518
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 24,504 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    silverharp wrote: »
    most people on scooters are in their twenties and probably the group least likely to be car owners or at least to be able to commute into the city with a car. So yep I'd say public transport is the alternative here.

    Round my way most e-scooters seem to be driven by kids. I imagine it's different in Dublin but I see no adults on them


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    #519
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    breezy1985 wrote: »
    Round my way most e-scooters seem to be driven by kids. I imagine it's different in Dublin but I see no adults on them

    Before march I only ever saw adults on them, commuting to work etc. Since the lockdown I only see some teens on them locally, but still a few adults. They've come down in price. So probably more affordable for teens etc.


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    #520
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    any examples? i.e. what could we copy and paste?

    personally, i think the two main things would be a speed and/or power limitation, and regs on lights.

    Can't find a decent link. Too busy to look it up. Something like this.

    https://www.bavariannews.com/blog/2019/07/19/electric-scooters-get-to-know-the-new-regulations/


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    #521
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 17,848 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    breezy1985 wrote: »
    Round my way most e-scooters seem to be driven by kids. I imagine it's different in Dublin but I see no adults on them

    normally I saw them on roads going into Dublin 2 from Ballsbridge Baggot St area commuting hours and up and down the grand canal

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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    #522
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,166 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    beauf wrote: »
    If it was a bicycle lights would be a legal requirement and more effective than Hi Viz. Bu they hardly enforce that anyway.

    The problem is a lack of enforcement not a lack rules.

    No point adding more rules that you won't enforce either.

    Exactly, Gardai aren't even on top of disqualified drivers.


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    #523
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 24,504 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    silverharp wrote: »
    normally I saw them on roads going into Dublin 2 from Ballsbridge Baggot St area commuting hours and up and down the grand canal

    Ya it's around estates I see them which I was guessing would be very different. The kids are awful ejits for jumping off paths without looking too which again I imagine is very different to commuting adulds


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    #524
    Markcheese
    Registered Users Posts: 8,430 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    amadangomor wrote: »
    Prick on one almost creamed me on a footpath few weeks ago.....

    There was a bike lane so no way should he have been on the footpath. What comeback would I have if I was seriously injured in this case. Surely they should have to be insured.

    Pretty much the same comeback he'd have to you ,as if you'd slammed into him while stepping backwards into a cycle path ..
    ( And you're right to be pissed at the twit on the footpath )

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



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    #525
    rubadub
    Registered Users Posts: 32,373 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    breezy1985 wrote: »
    Round my way most e-scooters seem to be driven by kids. I imagine it's different in Dublin but I see no adults on them
    I only see kids on them around my house. On my commute I see adults.


    If the scooters are allowed I wonder would they change the law on ebikes so they could be throttle controlled. The escooter laws usually have a wheel size definition so a throttled ebike would possibly not fall under it.

    I also wonder if the scooters would be included in the cycle to work scheme, or if throttled ebikes are allowed would they change the law to include them.


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    #526
    Markcheese
    Registered Users Posts: 8,430 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    It's going to require new regs to make the road legal .
    I think some form of low age limit and rules of the road knowledge aren't a bad thing , as well as having to have some sort of oficial identification for the rider .... So a provisional driving licence fits those bills and it's already there now,and it's easy to get ..

    The hi-viz , bike helmet and hopefully a back light more than 10 cm above the ground ( on a helmet ,or backpack ,or clipped on your jacket ) would help to make people more noticable on a potentially grey or wet day .. say it adds 40 quid to your start up cost ,
    You're gonna be buying rain gear,a decent back pack anyway as well as your 500 euro plus scooter ...
    The only reason I'd push for the above is I think scooters could and should become a major replacement for car traffic in urban areas , so hopefully thousands and thousands of them ... it'd be good to start off without a free for all , with loads of people having avoidable accidents ( not insurance accidents ,but life changing injury accidents )

    Tax and insurance .. no thanks ... And I do get that making riders have some kind of licence would make would make others push for insurance ...

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



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    #527
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 24,504 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Markcheese wrote: »
    It's going to require new regs to make the road legal .
    I think some form of low age limit and rules of the road knowledge aren't a bad thing , as well as having to have some sort of oficial identification for the rider .... So a provisional driving licence fits those bills and it's already there now,and it's easy to get ..

    The hi-viz , bike helmet and hopefully a back light more than 10 cm above the ground ( on a helmet ,or backpack ,or clipped on your jacket ) would help to make people more noticable on a potentially grey or wet day .. say it adds 40 quid to your start up cost ,
    You're gonna be buying rain gear,a decent back pack anyway as well as your 500 euro plus scooter ...
    The only reason I'd push for the above is I think scooters could and should become a major replacement for car traffic in urban areas , so hopefully thousands and thousands of them ... it'd be good to start off without a free for all , with loads of people having avoidable accidents ( not insurance accidents ,but life changing injury accidents )

    Tax and insurance .. no thanks ... And I do get that making riders have some kind of licence would make would make others push for insurance ...

    The lights will already be law same as with a bicycle and what colour clothes people wear is none of yours or anyone else business


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    #528
    Markcheese
    Registered Users Posts: 8,430 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    breezy1985 wrote: »
    The lights will already be law same as with a bicycle and what colour clothes people wear is none of yours or anyone else business

    Well the position of a light counts too ..
    And you're right the colour of someone's clothes is none of my or anyone elses business ... Unless it's decided by the powers that be that it is their business , and then it is ..
    Which is what we're discussing here ...
    Of course you can get on a bike , in urban cammo head to toe ,with no lighting ,and ride along a busy street on a wet winters fri evening and no one can tell you otherwise .. stupid thing to do though ..
    and if when regs are being brought in to make to scooters road legal ,some safety gear was included ,I'd be okay with that ..

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



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    #529
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 24,504 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Markcheese wrote: »
    Well the position of a light counts too ..
    And you're right the colour of someone's clothes is none of my or anyone elses business ... Unless it's decided by the powers that be that it is their business , and then it is ..
    Which is what we're discussing here ...
    Of course you can get on a bike , in urban cammo head to toe ,with no lighting ,and ride along a busy street on a wet winters fri evening and no one can tell you otherwise .. stupid thing to do though ..
    and if when regs are being brought in to make to scooters road legal ,some safety gear was included ,I'd be okay with that ..

    No you can't ride around all evening as it is clearly in the rules of the road how many reflectors ,lights and what colour and position are needed on a bike and it also says when they are needed.
    Maybe there is a lack of enforcement but that is a different issue.

    As for urban camo should the government not ban all black, grey and silver cars then ?


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    #530
    buffalo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,054 ✭✭✭buffalo


    Markcheese wrote: »
    Of course you can get on a bike , in urban cammo head to toe ,with no lighting ,and ride along a busy street on a wet winters fri evening and no one can tell you otherwise .. stupid thing to do though ..

    A Garda can, assuming a winter's evening means it's after lighting up time. Lights are a legal requirement in that situation.


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    #531
    SteM
    Registered Users Posts: 6,565 ✭✭✭SteM


    There is some functionality I love from this scooter

    https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/taur/taur-the-electric-road-scooter

    The forward facing position looks good but the rear light especially looks like a great idea.


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    #532
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,744 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    liamog wrote: »
    It doesn't take that long, we wait for the UK to regulate then we copy and paste. It's easier than using google translate to create regulations.

    I did read that we had a tendency to wait for the UK to write EU Directives into law, and then we based our incorporation of the principle on theirs. Guess that's over now!


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    #533
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 24,504 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    tomasrojo wrote: »
    I did read that we had a tendency to wait for the UK to write EU Directives into law, and then we based our incorporation of the principle on theirs. Guess that's over now!

    With any luck we just copy French law from now on


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    #534
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,478 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i have a vague memory that my cousin wrote the irish regs on scuba gear, but that she basically just copied the UK ones.


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    #535
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 24,504 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    i have a vague memory that my cousin wrote the irish regs on scuba gear, but that she basically just copied the UK ones.

    Well tell her she done an awful job. Bloody scubists always swimming around slowly getting in the way of peoples boats, always dressed in black or dark colours and they don't even pay ocean tax


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    #536
    Thargor
    Registered Users Posts: 17,881 ✭✭✭✭Thargor


    People can whine all they like about mandatory helmets/insurance/tax/number plates/high-viz etc just like they've been doing with bikes for years but the minute the guards cant seize them people will do whatever the feck they want and best of luck to them, anything thats not a car is a plus.

    I still dont see any advantage over a roadbike or a commuter bike though and plenty of downsides that you don't get with a bike. Inferior Speed/Range and no free exercise being the main ones. If you use one as a daily commuter how long will the battery hold a charge before you're throwing your €500-1000 toy in a skip? Cant leave it on the street or it will be gone.


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    #537
    beachhead
    Registered Users Posts: 2,315 ✭✭✭beachhead


    dastardly00 wrote: »
    What have they got to do with bicycles/cycling? :confused:

    They have 2 wheels and a motor and driver not always corpus mentis


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    #538
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    beachhead wrote: »
    They have 2 wheels and a motor and driver not always corpus mentis
    Not compos mentis either!


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    #539
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,166 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    Thargor wrote: »
    People can whine all they like about mandatory helmets/insurance/tax/number plates/high-viz etc just like they've been doing with bikes for years but the minute the guards cant seize them people will do whatever the feck they want and best of luck to them, anything thats not a car is a plus.

    I still dont see any advantage over a roadbike or a commuter bike though and plenty of downsides that you don't get with a bike. Inferior Speed/Range and no free exercise being the main ones. If you use one as a daily commuter how long will the battery hold a charge before you're throwing your €500-1000 toy in a skip? Cant leave it on the street or it will be gone.

    There's actually one bit there that's a counterpoint. If youre going somewhere with only on street bike parking no decent bike is safe but a scooter may well be permitted inside. A scooter under your desk is infinitely safer than a bike locked to a railing.


    If I thought they'd all only do 25kph I'd have little issue other than the rear lights position but we all know many will be chipped to run much faster.


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    #540
    breezy1985
    Registered Users Posts: 24,504 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    ED E wrote: »
    There's actually one bit there that's a counterpoint. If youre going somewhere with only on street bike parking no decent bike is safe but a scooter may well be permitted inside. A scooter under your desk is infinitely safer than a bike locked to a railing.


    If I thought they'd all only do 25kph I'd have little issue other than the rear lights position but we all know many will be chipped to run much faster.

    What's the max you could get one to do with mods ?

    And bikes are safe enough if you don't skimp on the lock


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    #541
    Mickiemcfist
    Registered Users Posts: 1,585 ✭✭✭Mickiemcfist


    breezy1985 wrote: »
    What's the max you could get one to do with mods ?

    And bikes are safe enough if you don't skimp on the lock

    They're even safer if you skimp on the bike!


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