Covid 19 Part XXVII- 62,002 ROI (1,915 deaths) 39,609 NI (724 deaths) (02/11) Read OP

caveat emptor · 25-10-2020 02:21AM

Jack1985 wrote: »

Again, can you link the source of this material? Your feeding a one-stream narrative, context is everything and I'd like to view the material you are adding to this forum.

Hi Jack,

I'm feeding a one-stream narrative? I don't even know what that is.
I'm referencing a scientific article. Also what's two-stream narrative.
You don't agree. I probably wouldn't if I were you. I get it.

Google it. We all need to be able to do our own research.
I don't have the link to hand.

I'm not your mammy.

Jack1985 · 25-10-2020 02:29AM

caveat emptor wrote: »

Hi Jack,

I'm feeding a narrative? I'm referencing a scientific article.
You don't agree. I probably wouldn't if I were you. I get it.

Google it. We all need to be able to do our own research.
I don't have the link to hand.

I'm not your mammy.

LOL, mature.

It's courtesy to fellow people on here.

I can't judge the material because it's posted without reference, I'm not partial to being fed material and swallowing it at first glance. The way your posting it suggests flying Is wholly unsafe, that expat's coming home are a danger for Christmas and that even if Gov were to test they will screw it up – so that’s the narrative I’m suggesting you are pushing.

Do you have the article name? Or should I expect more low-level disrespect at a simple question in relation to your propagated material? Debate is usually encouraged through people being able to formulate opinions with access to information.

Thanks

Wolf359f · 25-10-2020 02:32AM

caveat emptor wrote: »

I agree with that but I really don't have the energy to go through an argument I didn't make. Of course people should be able to leave. Nobody is suggesting that. The reality is I can't visit family 10km away but I can go to Belgium for a weekend away. Come back and be asked politely not to infect anyone.

That's what the point of all of that is. It's not to curtail your god given Gemma O'd liberty. We can't even say the word "quarantine" we have to use some fudge.

If you don't agree with it and plenty don't then why should people get fined for travelling more than 5km? What's the point.

Funnily enough if I travel to Germany I'll be test on arrival or 7 days later just incase. In germany (the eu) you get a 25 000 euro fine if you don't follow this. Doesn't matter what passport you have :eek:

I'm only talking about leaving the country, you can't stop people leaving.
You went on a rant then about re-entering the country, a totally different topic.

So have you and your family fly to Belgium to meet up, if you want to get around government advice, there's your solution.

People will always find away around restrictions, if the Government says you can't do X, 90% won't do X, but 10% will find a way to do X without falling foul of guidelines.
Unlike some countries, we will never have near 100% compliance rate and introducing strict and harsh laws to try and get or punish the 10% will result in loosing some of the 90%.

caveat emptor · 25-10-2020 02:39AM

Jack1985 wrote: »

LOL, mature.

It's courtesy to fellow people on here.

I can't judge the material because it's posted without reference, I'm not partial to being fed material and swallowing it at first glance. The way your posting it suggests flying Is wholly unsafe, that expat's coming home are a danger for Christmas and that even if Gov were to test they will screw it up – so that’s the narrative I’m suggesting you are pushing.

Do you have the article name? Or should I expect more low-level disrespect at a simple question in relation to your propagated material? Debate is usually encouraged through people being able to formulate opinions with access to information.

Thanks

Hi Jack,

I guess you work in aviation. You suggest I'm pushing a narrative. I'm not.
I'm concerned lockdown part 2 is for nothing, just like lockdown part 1.
I've no axe to grind. I've flown loads of places, have family and friends on most continents that I hope to see. There's a time for everything.

You are hardly unbiased. Are you a pilot? If so I can guess your opinion. Just disregard it. I assure you it's real. You can't get more real than whole genome sequencing and analysis. I can copy from the pdf I downloaded if that helps.

It's in a eurosurveillance journal. I'll try get the link for you though in the spirit of 'debating' genomic sequencing from people from three continents having 99% similar viral genome that infected them and who also happened to be on the same plane.

Whole genome sequencing and analysis was per- formed on five available samples, which came from one case travelling from one continent, three cases travelling from a different continent and one case trav- elling from a third continent. All five samples were identified as belonging to SARS-CoV-2 viral lineage B.1.36 (PANGOLIN nomenclature, v2.0.7). Pairwise comparison of the nucleotide sequences showedmore than 99% homology across the entire viral genome, strongly suggesting a single point source of infection. The outbreak was declared over 28 days after the last date of symptom onset.

Lenny Lushlips · 25-10-2020 02:42AM

This site has USA cdc data. In as much as it can be deemed reliable, of course.

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#demographics

mandrake04 · 25-10-2020 02:42AM

Purple Mountain wrote: »

How will we deal with the ex pats who decide to come home for Christmas?
Most barely come home for 2 weeks so I can't see them going somewhere to isolate.
They'll probably be coming straight from a work/school environment straight back to Ireland and they're not going to stick to mixing with one household, they'll be meeting up with the usual cohort of reunion friends/family.

Probably the government will simply deal with it by keeping everything closed down at L5 so limiting the need for anyone infected or not to go anywhere, I know that doesn’t make sense but really when a society closes down schools for 6 months at the expense of their kids education while letting people swan off on foreign holidays kind of says it all.

caveat emptor · 25-10-2020 02:43AM

caveat emptor wrote: »

I can't go more than 5 km. Can't see family. But anyone can book a flight and fvck off anywhere and bring back whatever. Just have to Pinky promise to quarantine and go on the piss and infect half the town. Doesn't make a whole load of sense mask or no mask. Masks do help though.

Wolf359f wrote: »

Unless they Government start canceling passports, they will never, every be able to stop people leaving the country.

You have to understand there's only so far a Government can go with asking/advising before they cross a line which can have serious repercussions.

Wolf359f wrote: »

I'm only talking about leaving the country, you can't stop people leaving.
You went on a rant then about re-entering the country, a totally different topic.

Reentering is the point I was making. There in bold for you. You then went on a rant about not being able to leave and passports. :pac:

Wolf359f · 25-10-2020 02:55AM

caveat emptor wrote: »

Reentering is the point I was making. There in bold for you. You then went on a rant about not being able to leave and passports. :pac:

Reentering only addresses the issue of people leaving and coming back, reentering would not have any bearing on travellers coming to Ireland to visit family and friends arriving from homes abroad.

During the summer it was all the texas tourists arriving, now during winter is's all about Irish people going abroad and then returning home?

Maybe you could make a chart of Irish passport holders and non Irish passport arriving each month throughout the year?

Jack1985 · 25-10-2020 02:55AM

caveat emptor wrote: »

You are hardly unbiased. Are you a pilot? If so I can guess your opinion. Just disregard it. I assure you it's real. You can't get more real than whole genome sequencing and analysis. I can copy from the pdf I downloaded if that helps.

When you assume, you make an ass out of you and me.

I'm reading that article now (as you referred to the article publisher) and it's concerning, at 7.5hrs in Summer 2020, I would suggest that the flight orginiated from Dallas.

Hardly surpising now is it, given it's a Covid breading ground.

This case is actually a very good example of how we deal with Aviation in Ireland. Allowing unrestricted travel from area's which have cases out of control and without any attempts to test or monitor movements be that through an app etc is a waiting game for cases here. That's clear.

However putting blanket quarantine when there were countries safer to visit from Ireland at point's throughout this Summer was the wrong approach.

The new EU traffic light system uses metrics to place countries on Green, Orange, Red and Grey. We are currently situated in Red. The sooner the Gov here implmement that, with testing for high-risk area's and more emphasis on monitoring of movements the better.

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/QANDA_20_1875

caveat emptor · 25-10-2020 03:15AM

No assumptions. That's great so the 14 day quarantine will be supervised by the relevant authority like in Germany? I believe it's the federal police according to the doc son would be the airport police here?

Suppose people coming home for Christmas for two weeks or less can quarantine in their rooms and zoom call into the Christmas dinner.

Kermit.de.frog · 25-10-2020 03:47AM

From the Guardian regarding Italian protests at new restrictions.

From the wire services in Europe: Italy saw a second night of street protests against curfews as it reported another daily record on Saturday.

After clashes in the southern city of Naples on Friday night, police again faced off against dozens of masked protestors in the centre of Rome after the far-right Forza Nuova group called for a protest against the curfews.

Some 200 masked militants belonging to the neo-fascist group hurled projectiles at police and set rubbish bins alight in the second night of street protests.

Police arrested seven protesters and reported two officers injured, according to the Repubblica daily.

The government is planning further restrictions to contain a resurgence of the pandemic, and prime minister Giuseppe Conte has said he wants to avoid a repeat of the blanket lockdown earlier in the year. But a number of regions - including Campania, the area around Naples, Lazio around Rome, and Lombardy - have imposed overnight curfews.

The northern region of Piedmont and Sicily in the south will follow next week and other regions are expected to match them. The central government is expected to announce more measures soon.

Earlier, health ministry data showed 19,644 new Covid cases and 151 dead as the disease surged in areas like Lombardy, Milan, Campania and Lazio.

Conte pledged to speed up help for businesses suffering in the crisis but said the weeks ahead would be very difficult. “We cannot lower our guard,” he added.

According to a draft decree circulated on Saturday, public gyms and swimming pools may be closed and bars and restaurants told to shut from 6 p.m., while people will be encouraged not to travel outside their home districts.

Like many authorities across Europe, the Italian government is desperate not to close down the economy completely but is facing growing public anger at renewed restrictions being imposed to limit public gatherings.

With public health services coming under strain, authorities have reopened temporary intensive care facilities built during the first phase.

Despite this, Italy’s top public health body warned on Friday services were approaching crisis point.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/oct/25/coronavirus-live-news-cases-surge-in-europe-restrictions-victoria-uk-italy-greece-austria

Once the virus gets going in the wrong direction, as with the first surge, it's extremely difficult to contain without strict counter measures.

440Hertz · 25-10-2020 04:04AM

Purple Mountain wrote: »

And I hate to see Irish people abroad not being able to come home and see loved ones but how can we justify letting foreign travellers into the country when I can't see my aunt/uncle/granny 10km away?!

The solution to that is to test as per best practice elsewhere e.g. Germany or Iceland.

mandrake04 · 25-10-2020 06:38AM

Golfman64 wrote: »

There is almost zero risk of transmission on a flight currently given the mandatory mask policy - https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/10/20/925892185/do-masks-really-cut-your-risk-of-catching-covid-19-on-long-plane-flights

Ireland should adopt the EU traffic light policy in full with Orange and Red countries requiring a negative test < 72 hours prior to arrival. This enables safe international travel whilst providing a better alternative to the non-enforced quarantine advice.

Sorry I kinda of worded that wrong and you maybe misunderstood, I was trying say that the virus would have been picked up in the country of origin and transported to Ireland rather than person-to-person transmission on the plane itself.

The whole green list a few months ago was proven to be a complete failure cases were on the rise from when it was brought into operation and you can now see where the situation is, the traffic signals will much the same. Sure secondary infections from schools and GAA are somewhat to blame but travel is the virus friend.

moonage · 25-10-2020 06:47AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Once the virus gets going in the wrong direction, as with the first surge, it's extremely difficult to contain without strict counter measures.

The first surge happened because it was a new virus and there wasn't much immunity to it.

Immunity has been building and we are nearing endemic equilibrium. We are now seeing a second ripple as winter approaches, as with other respiratory infections.

Strict counter measures are not needed. There's no need to panic.

lawrencesummers · 25-10-2020 07:20AM

moonage wrote: »

The first surge happened because it was a new virus and there wasn't much immunity to it.

Immunity has been building and we are nearing endemic equilibrium. We are now seeing a second ripple as winter approaches, as with other respiratory infections.

Strict counter measures are not needed. There's no need to panic.

Anything other than just your opinion to back that up?

oceanman · 25-10-2020 07:26AM

moonage wrote: »

The first surge happened because it was a new virus and there wasn't much immunity to it.

Immunity has been building and we are nearing endemic equilibrium. We are now seeing a second ripple as winter approaches, as with other respiratory infections.

Strict counter measures are not needed. There's no need to panic.

when someone tells you not to panic....you know what???

GazzaL · 25-10-2020 07:57AM

One of the most striking if unsurprising things so far is Dr. Tony being "not concerned" by the failure of contact tracing. One of the most basic means of dealing with the pandemic, up there with washing your hands. A scandalous embarrassment.

How are we meant to take NPHET and the Government seriously when they can't get the basics right? They're destroying the economy and society to hide their own failures. They're aided by weak opposition that are more interested in getting people on generous welfare than dealing with the issues at hand.

Probes · 25-10-2020 08:10AM

We are no where near a level of community immunity in Ireland. You only need to look at what's happening in the rest of the world to see that. Places in Europe that have had a bad first wave are also having a bad second wave, America is starting to have more cases again, Sweden too. There is nothing special about us here that would mean we don't have a long way to go.

I wish they'd bring in some more basic measures to stop us getting to the point of lockdowns. In China and Taiwan etc they have temperature readers in shops and cameras to check if you are wearing a mask, the doors don't open otherwise. They have police checking that positive cases and close contacts are isolating every day. These simple wee things that they can do seem to me a more acceptable restriction of freedom than the current lockdowns.

Graces7 · 25-10-2020 08:12AM

6 wrote: »

This disease isn't the massive killer that was feared back in March.

/QUOTE]

You are being very insular. And inaccurate. Have a look at deaths in other countries? Ireland is way below any other country's deaths so far. Has anyone wondered why?

Probably that we locked down very swiftly and efficiently . Before other countries . Had it not been handled so well and fast the scene would have been very different. It is the strictness that is saving lives.
r
And now folk seek to undo all that? So they can ?

What Username Guidelines · 25-10-2020 08:44AM

GazzaL wrote: »

One of the most striking if unsurprising things so far is Dr. Tony being "not concerned" by the failure of contact tracing. One of the most basic means of dealing with the pandemic, up there with washing your hands. A scandalous embarrassment.

How are we meant to take NPHET and the Government seriously when they can't get the basics right? They're destroying the economy and society to hide their own failures. They're aided by weak opposition that are more interested in getting people on generous welfare than dealing with the issues at hand.

Unfortunately when they’re not concerned about tracing collapsing at 1,000+ cases per day, yet are “very concerned” at 60 cases per day in august, people stop taking what they say as seriously.

Goldrickssan · 25-10-2020 08:49AM

Do we currently have the strictest anti covid measures in Europe?

Stheno · 25-10-2020 08:57AM

Goldrickssan wrote: »

Do we currently have the strictest anti covid measures in Europe?

Yes if not in the Western world

caveat emptor · 25-10-2020 08:57AM

Goldrickssan wrote: »

Do we currently have the strictest anti covid measures in Europe?

Depends what restrictions etc. Lots of places locking down. We are locking down because we don’t have enough capacity. You cannot travel 5km or go to someone’s house but you are free to go on holiday and are advised to quarantine on return.

I’d say we have the most non sensical restrictions in Europe because it’ll clearly spike back up fairly soon after Christmas unless we give up on testing. We’ve given up on tracing so wouldn’t rule that out. We might end up getting texts from HSE saying ‘do your own test’ .

manniot2 · 25-10-2020 09:01AM

eagle eye wrote: »

Just to clarify, asymptomatics are getting long covid not just those who had symptoms.

In their head

manniot2 · 25-10-2020 09:04AM

GazzaL wrote: »

One of the most striking if unsurprising things so far is Dr. Tony being "not concerned" by the failure of contact tracing. One of the most basic means of dealing with the pandemic, up there with washing your hands. A scandalous embarrassment.

How are we meant to take NPHET and the Government seriously when they can't get the basics right? They're destroying the economy and society to hide their own failures. They're aided by weak opposition that are more interested in getting people on generous welfare than dealing with the issues at hand.

He actually said on the late late that icu capacity and tracing were not important. What was important was community spread. He knows he has the power to shut us down whenever he wants, deflect the blame from the farce of a health service we have

Goldrickssan · 25-10-2020 09:05AM

Stheno wrote: »

Yes if not in the Western world

Anywhere you can track different countries measures in one place? Remember seeing a graph of different countries strictness but can't find it now

Nevermind found it
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/covid-stringency-index?time=latest&region=Europe

Looks like we are the strictest alright - on our own. **** the HSE

OscarMIlde · 25-10-2020 09:08AM

Thierry12 wrote: »

Joke

After these 6 weeks are up, those ****ing clowns need to have antigen rapid tests at the airports

They are €5 each and pretty accurate, they'll catch some cases.

They should have enforced quarantine. It's the only way to safely let people into the country. It should have been one of the major priorities once we opened back up after the first lockdown. I realise we are still vulnerable with the open border with the North, but I don't see why we can't do our best to quell it on our end.

jackboy · 25-10-2020 09:11AM

It seems that almost nobody has any curiosity as to why NPHET and the government have no plan for what will happen after this six week level 5 lockdown.

Goldrickssan · 25-10-2020 09:16AM

jackboy wrote: »

It seems that almost nobody has any curiosity as to why NPHET and the government have no plan for what will happen after this six week level 5 lockdown.

I mean Leo and co have said the plan is straight to level 3

Probes · 25-10-2020 09:19AM

manniot2 wrote: »

In their head

That's not true, X-rays on asymptomics have shown lung damage and other organ damage. Long covid is certainly possible for people that have had mild or no symptoms. I know someone that had it very mildly in March and is still suffering.

Covid 19 Part XXVII- 62,002 ROI (1,915 deaths) 39,609 NI (724 deaths) (02/11) Read OP

Comments