Covid 19 Part XXVII- 62,002 ROI (1,915 deaths) 39,609 NI (724 deaths) (02/11) Read OP

Icantthinkof1 · 25-10-2020 12:32AM

Thierry12 wrote: »

You should distinguish between infection and disease before you scare someone needlessly

They are 2 different things as you know

Cristiano Ronaldo right now excercising at his home has the infection, he's not dropping dead at 50 from Covid]

Um...Ronaldo is 35?!

mandrake04 · 25-10-2020 12:41AM

caveat emptor wrote: »

Do you remember we were told there was no issue with all the flights in from America? Turns out there were some issues........This is how one plane seeded outbreaks in 6 different regions of Ireland. Pretty shocking and at the same time completely predictable. Fair play to some politicians for trying to do something.

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1283363156648251392?s=20

It’s not a shock to those that use commonsense.

Is there indication that virus transmission was onboard or was it simply just carrying passengers infected elsewhere?

I don’t think anyone can argue that the major risk is on aircraft itself but the fact it’s simply a mule for infected people and it just transports the problem from elsewhere.

If you reduce the risk of introducing the amount primary infections rather than blaming sources of secondary infections like Schools, Meat factories, GAA etc there wouldn’t be as big problem.

Jack1985 · 25-10-2020 12:49AM

caveat emptor wrote: »

Do you remember we were told there was no issue with all the flights in from America? Turns out there were some issues........This is how one plane seeded outbreaks in 6 different regions of Ireland. Pretty shocking and at the same time completely predictable. Fair play to some politicians for trying to do something.

Where have you quoted this from? Do you have a source to verify this material?

440Hertz · 25-10-2020 12:51AM

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

That woman Catherine Murphy sounds very reasonable and rational to me anyway and she has a point.

But hey this country will never refuse visitors, there are no checks, off you go, while the rest of us are locked down. Sick of the double standards.

The excuse will be the FDI managers from US going back and forth. Have to keep that sector sweet.

The lack of checking travel quarantine is a scandal. But get your heads down everyone else and isolate.

Well take the total cost of the lockdown and divide it by the total volume of international tourists in 2020 and you'll get a quick sense of how little sense it makes not to test at the airports and ports. If it inconveniences people, big deal.

It's also not just tourists, but Irish people coming back from various holidays.

I know of one person who's off on holidays now, mid level 5.

Whatever is best international practice on this, we should be doing. It's inexcusable not to be and is extremely economically damaging.

Ficheall · 25-10-2020 12:52AM

robbiezero wrote: »

The likes of neighbours of me ma that order their shopping online and won't touch it for two days after it arrives.

What do you feel is the downside of this? Aside from some freshly baked foods not being as fresh, they've got a possibly marginally reduced rate of infection, and some peace of mind. There's no real cost to their being cautious.

Purple Mountain · 25-10-2020 12:55AM

How will we deal with the ex pats who decide to come home for Christmas?
Most barely come home for 2 weeks so I can't see them going somewhere to isolate.
They'll probably be coming straight from a work/school environment straight back to Ireland and they're not going to stick to mixing with one household, they'll be meeting up with the usual cohort of reunion friends/family.

WoollyRedHat · 25-10-2020 12:56AM

Purple Mountain wrote: »

How will we deal with the ex pats who decide to come home for Christmas?
Most barely come home for 2 weeks so I can't see them going somewhere to isolate.
They'll probably be coming straight from a work/school environment straight back to Ireland and they're not going to stick to mixing with one household, they'll be meeting up with the usual cohort of reunion friends/family.

Mandatory quarantine for 7 days while waiting for test results, which they have to pay for.

Wolf359f · 25-10-2020 12:57AM

Just on a point I keep hearing about the 80% asymptomatic figure been quoted about, according to a HPSC they have 60% who have a test being symptomatic. So this 80% asymptomatic figure is wrong, at least based in Ireland.

Source, page

Roger_007 · 25-10-2020 12:57AM

kenmc wrote: »

There are oodles of people who seem to think that shipping is a hobby, or exercise. They must be absolutely nuts.

Sailing may be a hobby but shipping is just commerce.

Wolf359f · 25-10-2020 12:57AM

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

Mandatory Isolation.

Obviously at their own cost?
So fly into Belfast and save Xmas and a few thousand euro!

WoollyRedHat · 25-10-2020 12:59AM

Wolf359f wrote: »

Just on a point I keep hearing about the 80% asymptomatic figure been quoted about, according to a HPSC they have 60% who have a test being symptomatic. So this 80% asymptomatic figure is wrong, at least based in Ireland.

Source, page

Globally it's reckoned that 20 percent of people are truly asymptomatic.

Wolf359f · 25-10-2020 01:02AM

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

Globally it's reckoned that 20 percent of people are truly asymptomatic.

So how did 20% magically become 80%?
Did people get confused between Symptomatic and asymptomatic meanings?

smellyoldboot · 25-10-2020 01:02AM

Purple Mountain wrote: »

How will we deal with the ex pats who decide to come home for Christmas?
Most barely come home for 2 weeks so I can't see them going somewhere to isolate.
They'll probably be coming straight from a work/school environment straight back to Ireland and they're not going to stick to mixing with one household, they'll be meeting up with the usual cohort of reunion friends/family.

lol. We're not going to deal with anything. They will be left do as they please, fcuk off again and we'll throw money at trying to patch up the aftermath. So normal service.

Wolf359f · 25-10-2020 01:06AM

smellyoldboot wrote: »

lol. We're not going to deal with anything. They will be left do as they please, fcuk off again and we'll throw money at trying to patch up the aftermath. So normal service.

I'm sure Belfast Airport would welcome the south trying to introduce any kind of travel/mandatory quarantine facility.

Purple Mountain · 25-10-2020 01:14AM

smellyoldboot wrote: »

lol. We're not going to deal with anything. They will be left do as they please, fcuk off again and we'll throw money at trying to patch up the aftermath. So normal service.

That's my point. Many of our businesses are on their knees but we won't be keeping the sons and daughters of Ireland from coming home for Christmas for a week from Lord knows where.

caveat emptor · 25-10-2020 01:24AM

Purple Mountain wrote: »

How will we deal with the ex pats who decide to come home for Christmas?
Most barely come home for 2 weeks so I can't see them going somewhere to isolate.
They'll probably be coming straight from a work/school environment straight back to Ireland and they're not going to stick to mixing with one household, they'll be meeting up with the usual cohort of reunion friends/family.

I believe the plan is to say.....
"sure how were we to know, there's nothing we could have done."

The reality is we are all being pitted against each other. Who wants to prevent Irish people who emigrated from coming home for Christmas? I don't.

Equally I don't want nursing homes getting overwhelmed.
I don't want small business' not being able to open again.
I don't want my kids school to close again.
I don't want not be allowed see family and friend.
I don't want pilots to be out of work or with debts.
I don't want people to be afraid to go to the hospital.
I don't want nurses and doctors with long covid.

We have really hard choices and we don't have the leadership to make them.

The flight thing is fairly conclusive. It's also self evident what will happen in January / February. If only there was legislation to deal with this kind of thing like the
INFECTIOUS DISEASES (AIRCRAFT) REGULATIONS 2009 or some such.

Whole genome sequencing and analysis was performed on five available samples, which came from one case travelling from one continent, three cases travelling from a different continent and one case travelling from a third continent. All five samples were identified as belonging to SARS-CoV-2 viral lineage B.1.36 (PANGOLIN nomenclature, v2.0.7). Pairwise comparison of the nucleotide sequences showed more than 99% homology across the entire viral genome, strongly suggesting a single point source of infection.
.......
We would also like to thank the team responsible for carrying out genomic sequencing at the National Virus Reference Laboratory (NVRL), UCD: Dr Cillian de Gascún, Dr Daniel Hare, Dr Jonathan Dean, Dr Michael J. Carr and Dr Gabriel Gonzalez.

Golfman64 · 25-10-2020 01:29AM

mandrake04 wrote: »

It’s not a shock to those that use commonsense.

Is there indication that virus transmission was onboard or was it simply just carrying passengers infected elsewhere?

I don’t think anyone can argue that the major risk is on aircraft itself but the fact it’s simply a mule for infected people and it just transports the problem from elsewhere.

If you reduce the risk of introducing the amount primary infections rather than blaming sources of secondary infections like Schools, Meat factories, GAA etc there wouldn’t be as big problem.

There is almost zero risk of transmission on a flight currently given the mandatory mask policy - https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/10/20/925892185/do-masks-really-cut-your-risk-of-catching-covid-19-on-long-plane-flights

Ireland should adopt the EU traffic light policy in full with Orange and Red countries requiring a negative test < 72 hours prior to arrival. This enables safe international travel whilst providing a better alternative to the non-enforced quarantine advice.

polesheep · 25-10-2020 01:35AM

MelbourneMan wrote: »

I would second this. It is a good posting, and I urge readers here to take note.

It is certainly an interesting element of this pandemic. While it must be recognised that the vast majority of people by and large accept the limits of their knowledge and so follow the expert advice and regulations, on the periphery, those unable to think for themselves, but also unfortunately unaware of that fact and so do make their own interpretations of matter about which they know little or nothing, a problematic, and leave us with lessons to learn on how do handle such elements in future crises.

I know you are probably taking the piss, but anybody who accepts the limit of their knowledge is either brain dead or has died of/with Covid. By the way, I am so grateful to you for leading the way.

Purple Mountain · 25-10-2020 01:39AM

caveat emptor wrote: »

I believe the plan is to say.....
"sure how were we to know, there's nothing we could have done."

The reality is we are all being pitted against each other. Who wants to prevent Irish people who emigrated from coming home for Christmas? I don't.

Equally I don't want nursing homes getting overwhelmed.
I don't want small business' not being able to open again.
I don't want my kids school to close again.
I don't want not be allowed see family and friend.
I don't want pilots to be out of work or with debts.
I don't want people to be afraid to go to the hospital.
I don't want nurses and doctors with long covid.

And I hate to see Irish people abroad not being able to come home and see loved ones but how can we justify letting foreign travellers into the country when I can't see my aunt/uncle/granny 10km away?!

Wolf359f · 25-10-2020 01:40AM

Golfman64 wrote: »

There is almost zero risk of transmission on a flight currently given the mandatory mask policy - https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/10/20/925892185/do-masks-really-cut-your-risk-of-catching-covid-19-on-long-plane-flights

Ireland should adopt the EU traffic light policy in full with Orange and Red countries requiring a negative test < 72 hours prior to arrival. This enables safe international travel whilst providing a better alternative to the non-enforced quarantine advice.

Unless the EU setup a system/strict guidelines for testing and passing on results to airlines or country officials, I have zero faith in the government here being able to setup a system.

polesheep · 25-10-2020 01:44AM

Purple Mountain wrote: »

And I hate to see Irish people abroad not being able to come home and see loved ones but how can we justify letting foreign travellers into the country when I can't see my aunt/uncle/granny 10km away?!

By going to see your aunt/uncle/granny. It's not difficult. The people who want to prevent emigrants returning for Christmas are the same people who forced them away in the first place.

caveat emptor · 25-10-2020 01:47AM

Golfman64 wrote: »

There is almost zero risk of transmission on a flight currently given the mandatory mask policy - https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/10/20/925892185/do-masks-really-cut-your-risk-of-catching-covid-19-on-long-plane-flights

Ireland should adopt the EU traffic light policy in full with Orange and Red countries requiring a negative test < 72 hours prior to arrival. This enables safe international travel whilst providing a better alternative to the non-enforced quarantine advice.

That would be a step in right direction. Aren't Germany and Finland testing at the airports?

The whole once bitten, twice shy springs to mind though. I don't trust the airlines or government to be able to do that.

I can't go more than 5 km. Can't see family. But anyone can book a flight and fvck off anywhere and bring back whatever. Just have to Pinky promise to quarantine and go on the piss and infect half the town. Doesn't make a whole load of sense mask or no mask. Masks do help though.

Purple Mountain · 25-10-2020 01:47AM

polesheep wrote: »

By going to see your aunt/uncle/granny. It's not difficult. The people who want to prevent emigrants returning for Christmas are the same people who forced them away in the first place.

But I'm supposed to don the green jersey and not go see them like a good citizen!

Wolf359f · 25-10-2020 01:59AM

caveat emptor wrote: »

That would be a step in right direction. Aren't Germany and Finland testing at the airports?

The whole once bitten, twice shy springs to mind though. I don't trust the airlines or government to be able to do that.

I can't go more than 5 km. Can't see family. But anyone can book a flight and fvck off anywhere and bring back whatever. Just have to Pinky promise to quarantine and go on the piss and infect half the town. Doesn't make a whole load of sense mask or no mask. Masks do help though.

Unless they Government start canceling passports, they will never, every be able to stop people leaving the country.

You have to understand there's only so far a Government can go with asking/advising before they cross a line which can have serious repercussions.

s1ippy · 25-10-2020 02:00AM

polesheep wrote: »

I know you are probably taking the piss, but anybody who accepts the limit of their knowledge is either brain dead or has died of/with Covid. By the way, I am so grateful to you for leading the way.

So you think you can only have a definite opinion, even with incomplete data? That's an interesting story.

caveat emptor · 25-10-2020 02:01AM

Purple Mountain wrote: »

But I'm supposed to don the green jersey and not go see them like a good citizen!

I think that message has changed. It's put on the green jersey and stay at home unless you've loads of things to do or you are going on a week away. Not sure though.

Jack1985 · 25-10-2020 02:07AM

caveat emptor wrote: »

I believe the plan is to say.....
"sure how were we to know, there's nothing we could have done."

The reality is we are all being pitted against each other. Who wants to prevent Irish people who emigrated from coming home for Christmas? I don't.

Again, can you link the source of this material? Your feeding a one-stream narrative, context is everything and I'd like to view the material you are adding to this forum.

WoollyRedHat · 25-10-2020 02:09AM

Wolf359f wrote: »

So how did 20% magically become 80%?
Did people get confused between Symptomatic and asymptomatic meanings?

I think it's confusion over people who are presymptomatic but ultimately go on to develop symptoms. Research was published in PLOS Medicine. They highlight that these truly asymptomatic cases were still infectious throughout.

Wolf359f · 25-10-2020 02:17AM

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

I think it's confusion over people who are presymptomatic but ultimately go on to develop symptoms. Research was published in PLOS Medicine. They highlight that these truly asymptomatic cases were still infectious throughout.

It's still a massive difference, 20% to 80%.
Anyways, the Irish data seems to fall in line with the PLOS data.
Just wish people would stop saying each day when we get 1000 new cases, oh 800 of them didn't even know they had covid etc.... sickens me.

caveat emptor · 25-10-2020 02:18AM

Wolf359f wrote: »

Unless they Government start canceling passports, they will never, every be able to stop people leaving the country.

You have to understand there's only so far a Government can go with asking/advising before they cross a line which can have serious repercussions.

I agree with that but I really don't have the energy to go through an argument I didn't make. Of course people should be able to leave. Nobody is suggesting that. The reality is I can't visit family 10km away but I can go to Belgium for a weekend away. Come back and be asked politely not to infect anyone.

That's what the point of all of that is. It's not to curtail your god given Gemma O'd liberty. We can't even say the word "quarantine" we have to use some fudge.

If you don't agree with it and plenty don't then why should people get fined for travelling more than 5km? What's the point.

Funnily enough if I travel to Germany I'll be test on arrival or 7 days later just incase. In germany (the eu) you get a 25 000 euro fine if you don't follow this. Doesn't matter what passport you have :eek:

Covid 19 Part XXVII- 62,002 ROI (1,915 deaths) 39,609 NI (724 deaths) (02/11) Read OP

Comments