Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - Read OP for Mod Warnings

polesheep · 20-10-2020 02:16PM

end of the road wrote: »

yes, they are.

why would and should they be working on a charitable basis?
they are qualified professionals, they are working for the government and their work is about public health and nothing more.

no it's calling them out and calling them what they are, which is even better.
he likely realised he would be wasting his time refuting the points as those people don't listen and don't do facts.
you can bring a horse to water and all that.

He didn't call him out. And he was on air, he had a chance to reach the audience with his refutation.

JimToken · 20-10-2020 02:17PM

TheCitizen wrote: »

England is a basket case. Brexit is madness. If you’re putting forward their talk radio as brilliant and informative why are the English making an almighty mess of themselves. That tabloid media and talk radio you’re referring to doesn’t seem to be having a positive effect that’s for certain.

Talk radio is pure drivel

They merely surf the wave of opportunism endlessly

TheCitizen · 20-10-2020 02:17PM

CalamariFritti wrote: »

I will obviously only confirm what you think already. But RTE actually is fake news. Not in actual untruths but a very selective truth.

I’ve heard this conspiracy talk and you’d see it with the loons that are parading around the streets at the weekends. How is it in RTE’s interest or the rest of the MSM like Newstalk etc. to promote a lockdown “agenda” as the conspiracy mob on here would have it?

polesheep · 20-10-2020 02:17PM

Strumms wrote: »

You are not cast away as an afterthought. How has that happened ?

You ARE though expected to muck in and adhere to restrictions, ‘jump in’ with everybody else and do your bit.

You clearly have no understanding of depression.

charlie14 · 20-10-2020 02:19PM

CalamariFritti wrote: »

We also know that confirmed cases and people who came in contact with this virus are two vastly different numbers.

In the absence of any real effort (at least here in Ireland) to get to better numbers these are the only numbers we have.

One number is a number we know for sure cannot be correct. Because there is not a hope in hell we caught every single positive. Even the most avid deadly-covid advocate won't deny this.

The other number is the best we know. Also probably not 100% accurate. But it also comes close to what we recorded in Ireland over the last few months and we know for sure we're still not catching every single positive. The accurate number - if we will ever know it - is most likely even lower than this.

You will argue that I'm biased, that I will believe the number I want to believe. And you're probably right. But it's not because I want to go for a pint, I truly believe it to be a more accurate number than the 3%.

I mean come on, hand on heart, do you believe that 3% of the infected will die from covid?

It`s nothing to do with what I believe or do not believe. Its the average percentage worldwide of confirmed cases who passed due to Covid-19.
It is a verifiable figure. Anything else is supposition and guesswork that will vary greatly depending on what you suppose or guess a figure is. Doing that makes statistics meaningless.

greengrass88 · 20-10-2020 02:21PM

I assume the flu jab counts as a 'medical appointment ' , allowing you to travel wherever to get it?

Quantum Erasure · 20-10-2020 02:22PM

The Continental Op wrote: »

I always wear a mask and take all the obvious precautions but I still don't think level 5 will solve anything.

Don't know who actually originally said it but I keep thinking "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

Einstein, wasn't it? ....

polesheep · 20-10-2020 02:23PM

TheCitizen wrote: »

England is a basket case. Brexit is madness. If you’re putting forward their talk radio as brilliant and informative why are the English making an almighty mess of themselves. That tabloid media and talk radio you’re referring to doesn’t seem to be having a positive effect that’s for certain.

Or having the effect you would like. Not that I'm in favour of Brexit or wishing to heap praise on the UK's handling of Covid, but the media should give equal opportunity to both sides of any debate. They do have much more robust media debates than anything we get here.

Elessar · 20-10-2020 02:25PM

I've held my nerve over all of the restrictions up to now but this 6 week rubbish is an absolute disgrace of the highest order. Not even Belgium with its case numbers is as restrictive or as long as ours. We are the North Korea of Europe. The economic toll and the toll this will have on people is immense and the government should be ashamed of themselves. Don't forget we also have a hard Brexit to look forward to aswell for jobs and the economy.

And after the 6 weeks the cases will just rise again, for what? Another 6 weeks of soviet-like restrictions that nobody else in the EU would even contemplate? More lost jobs, more domestic abuse, more mortgage arrears. What happened to the 'we must learn to live with the virus' mantra that that government were signalling after the last lockdown? I'd give my own opinions on what should be done but to what end...the government won't give a sh*te and most Irish people will just lap up what the government give them.

An absolute travesty.

Penfailed · 20-10-2020 02:25PM

polesheep wrote: »

Or having the effect you would like. Not that I'm in favour of Brexit or wishing to heap praise on the UK's handling of Covid, but the media should give equal opportunity to both sides of any debate. They do have much more robust media debates than anything we get here.

LBC is good for that.

Strumms · 20-10-2020 02:26PM

polesheep wrote: »

You clearly have no understanding of depression.

No, I do. I’m just not of the mind to join those few who are of the view that people who have been diagnosed with depression are absolved from their responsibilities in life.

By your logic people with depression should be enabled to exhibit other behaviors that endanger their fellow citizens... how about we let them drive through red lights without sanctions ? Assault random people in the street ? NO right ! That sounds ridiculous, it is ridiculous... covid is the same, they need to act responsibly, adhere to restrictions and invest time consulting with psychologists and other medical professionals if they don’t see a way of managing it.

risteard7 · 20-10-2020 02:28PM

People should stop going for testing, it's a waste of time. Negative one day, positive the next.

Yes wash hands be mindful of the elderly & keep you're distance, fair enough.

Hoolahan said if we get below 100 cases we can open back up. That can be achieved next week if we want.

Johnboy1951 · 20-10-2020 02:28PM

charlie14 wrote: »

It`s nothing to do with what I believe or do not believe. Its the average percentage worldwide of confirmed cases who passed due to Covid-19.
It is a verifiable figure. Anything else is supposition and guesswork that will vary greatly depending on what you suppose or guess a figure is. Doing that makes statistics meaningless.

Is it?

Or is it a figure based on those who passed returning a positive test, whether or not they developed a serious case of Covid which actually killed them?

There are so many figures and numbers we do not know ..... and probably never will ...... that most of the pronouncements are in the 'best guess' category, based on information available at the time.

I would think the best death rates attributable to Covid could easily be ascertained by comparing historical death numbers with present death numbers.
I have not heard any of our experts provide those numbers ..... and apparently anyone who does is a crank, non-medic and not to be believed.
You do not need a medical licence to compare numbers!

end of the road · 20-10-2020 02:29PM

dmakc wrote: »

I'm convinced that if RTE and the wider media didn't have such a hard-on for a lockdown and hysteria (i.e. ratings) we'd still be 3.5

rte don't have a hard on for lockdown and don't do hysteria.
most of the wider media don't do hysteria either.
we would absolutely be going to level 5 regardless because it's necessary to circuit break.

Captain_Crash · 20-10-2020 02:30PM

TheCitizen wrote: »

How is it in RTE’s interest or the rest of the MSM like Newstalk etc. to promote a lockdown “agenda” as the conspiracy mob on here would have it?

Have you seen the eye watering figures media outlets for getting as advertising revenue from the government? Some local radio stations are getting more per payment than they would normally in a year! anywhere between €75K and €90K, even more in some cases.

Rrrrrr2 · 20-10-2020 02:31PM

TheCitizen wrote: »

I’ve heard this conspiracy talk and you’d see it with the loons that are parading around the streets at the weekends. How is it in RTE’s interest or the rest of the MSM like Newstalk etc. to promote a lockdown “agenda” as the conspiracy mob on here would have it?

Lol then you're beyond naieve- it makes for cheap programming with a captive audience requiring zero thought or innovaton.
Plus there's Government grant aid to "help" them overcome the financial loss of ad reveneues= all in all this is media Gold and the best easiest story since 9/11...lockdown also increases listenership as people have nothing else to do.

polesheep · 20-10-2020 02:33PM

Strumms wrote: »

No, I do. I’m just not of the mind to join those few who are of the view that people who have been diagnosed with depression are absolved from their responsibilities in life.

By your logic people with depression should be enabled to exhibit other behaviors that endanger their fellow citizens... how about we let them drive through red lights without sanctions ? Assault random people in the street ? NO right ! That sounds ridiculous, it is ridiculous... covid is the same, they need to act responsibly, adhere to restrictions and invest time consulting with psychologists and other medical professionals if they don’t see a way of managing it.

Sure, it's so easy to get an appointment.

As I said, you have no understanding of depression and you are making a fool of yourself.

Rrrrrr2 · 20-10-2020 02:34PM

TheCitizen wrote: »

England is a basket case. Brexit is madness. If you’re putting forward their talk radio as brilliant and informative why are the English making an almighty mess of themselves. That tabloid media and talk radio you’re referring to doesn’t seem to be having a positive effect that’s for certain.

Again more rte Irish media brainwashed stuff- I used visit monthly for work pre all this rubbish and I can assue you it's pretty damn far from a basketcase. And leagues ahead of here in regards to so many aspects of life.

normanoffside · 20-10-2020 02:37PM

Low and behold, level 3 was already starting to work before level 5 was announced

eigrod wrote: »

905 positive swabs from 14676 tests. Positivity rate 6.17%. Encouraging trend this week.

Apologies if already posted.

Captain_Crash · 20-10-2020 02:39PM

end of the road wrote: »

everyone knew that the travel "restrictions" were guidelines as this was made clear.
ryanair got their arses handed to them in the courts, not sure how that was clever or railroading government.

Ryanair got the very answer they knew they would get. Their intentions weren't to open the country and remove restrictions, it was to have a clear position communicated from government. You may have known the restrictions were guidelines, I did too... But a whole cohort of people didn't, and after repeated attempts from Ryanair to get the government to clarify it, they wouldn't. This was even alluded to in the judgement. In fact I suppose Ryanair got their asses handed to them so bigly that they were even awarded limited costs!

charlie14 · 20-10-2020 02:40PM

growleaves wrote: »

We're not disagreeing technically.

The WHO's estimate puts covid-19 in the range of a normal respiratory virus in terms of mortality.

The statistics about median age of death puts covid-19 in the range of a normal respiratory virus in terms of morbidity.

None of the stories or statistics around Long Covid put the after-effects of covid outside of the range of a normal illness (yet).

Governments and medical authorities have only stuck to that 'we don't know' how deadly covid could be; while media have implied, inferred, gaslighted that a non-normative nightmare scenario is more likely than a normative respiratory illness scenario.

The WHO also estimate those that pass due to flu each year at 290,00-650,000.
An average of 470,000 per year.
Covid-19 confirmed deaths for 8 months are 1.12 million.
Using the WHO yearly average of 470,000 for 8 months equates to around 320,000 deaths due to flu.
That would mean that Covid-19 deaths are close to 4 times greater than a normal respiratory virus

Strumms · 20-10-2020 02:40PM

polesheep wrote: »

You clearly have no understanding of depression.

You have clearly no understanding or wish to understand covid...

421 people committed suicide in Ireland last year.

1852 people have died from covid.. SO FAR this year

Only in October and 340% more people died from covid so far than suicide last year... there are 73 days left this year.

By all means continue making a fool of ‘your-self’

facehugger99 · 20-10-2020 02:42PM

Strumms wrote: »

You have clearly no understanding or wish to understand covid...

421 people committed suicide in Ireland last year.

1852 people have died from with covid.. SO FAR this year

Only in October and 340% more people died from with covid so far than suicide last year... there are 73 days left this year.

By all means continue making a fool of ‘your-self’

FYP

paw patrol · 20-10-2020 02:43PM

martingriff wrote: »

Come on how many extra cases are in the death category due to car crash. As you say if they are they are taken off as soon as possible.

quite a few I'd say, as the hospitals test all admissions now.

martingriff wrote: »

As you say if they are they are taken off as soon as possible.

this bit is fairly disingenuous to be fair.

Yes you are correct but what I really said was the coroner will remove them , the coroner won't see them for ages.

How long before the coroner rules on a death in ireland?
- legally it cant take place for 6 weeks minimum and we know it take a lot lot longer.

Our Covid public policy is based on recent stats not revised ones that fall out of the coroner court months if not years later - Covid will be long gone in it's current guise when that happens.

And you know that, yet that didn't stop your sly remark

CalamariFritti · 20-10-2020 02:46PM

TheCitizen wrote: »

I’ve heard this conspiracy talk and you’d see it with the loons that are parading around the streets at the weekends. How is it in RTE’s interest or the rest of the MSM like Newstalk etc. to promote a lockdown “agenda” as the conspiracy mob on here would have it?

I have no idea what their interest or their agenda is. I assume its a mixture of revenue, morality, compliance boost and of course trotting the government line. Not necessarily in that order.

Do you believe that RTE gives you honest unbiased information and debate on covid?

Strumms · 20-10-2020 02:47PM

facehugger99 wrote: »

FYP

No, if their death certificate says otherwise.

CalamariFritti · 20-10-2020 02:47PM

Captain_Crash wrote: »

Have you seen the eye watering figures media outlets for getting as advertising revenue from the government? Some local radio stations are getting more per payment than they would normally in a year! anywhere between €75K and €90K, even more in some cases.

I wasn't even aware of that. Certainly a good reason to trot the party line.

FintanMcluskey · 20-10-2020 02:47PM

charlie14 wrote: »

The WHO also estimate those that pass due to flu each year at 290,00-650,000.
An average of 470,000 per year.
Covid-19 confirmed deaths for 8 months are 1.12 million.
Using the WHO yearly average of 470,000 for 8 months equates to around 320,000 deaths due to flu.
That would mean that Covid-19 deaths are close to 4 times greater than a normal respiratory virus

Does testing occur for flu deaths is nursing homes?

Remember it only needs a positive test to be called a Covid death, so we must apply similar metrics to the flu.

It seems the flu is fatal to young children.

Who calibrated the moral compass so that flu deaths were not worthy of historic restrictions?

charlie14 · 20-10-2020 02:48PM

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Is it?

Or is it a figure based on those who passed returning a positive test, whether or not they developed a serious case of Covid which actually killed them?

There are so many figures and numbers we do not know ..... and probably never will ...... that most of the pronouncements are in the 'best guess' category, based on information available at the time.

I would think the best death rates attributable to Covid could easily be ascertained by comparing historical death numbers with present death numbers.
I have not heard any of our experts provide those numbers ..... and apparently anyone who does is a crank, non-medic and not to be believed.
You do not need a medical licence to compare numbers!

The opposite could also be the case. There are countries that are under-reporting for various reasons. There is one I know that only records a death due to Covid-19 if someone passes within 30 days of being a confirmed case, and bizarrely if in ICU passes within 40 days.

LuckyLloyd · 20-10-2020 02:49PM

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

Yes it sounds like you prefer an echo chamber rather than a debate. Switch on Rte you’ll get that too

This is the biggest bloody echo chamber of a thread you'll ever see!!

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - Read OP for Mod Warnings