Opening of "No-Food" pubs pushed out again

paw patrol · 19-10-2020 10:14AM

MrStuffins wrote: »

Not possible? You're saying it's not possible for people to not go to the pub?

There is no universe where that is true!

perhaps I should have been clearer.

I meant not possible to just change the habit of a lifetime to take up a new hobby as you suggest without some impact on them
in the case of the pub (the original point being mental health) no amount of online learning or banjo class will fill the socialising need many have.

so yes you are correct in what you say above but in the context of the original mental health point you are not.

paw patrol · 19-10-2020 10:18AM

MrStuffins wrote: »

Not possible? You're saying it's not possible for people to not go to the pub?

There is no universe where that is true!

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

The sudden demand for people to stop going to the pub is necessary. If it weren't necessary then it would be completely out of order.

It was necessary in april , may after that when we knew the impact of covdi it was not. yeah i'll give you June if you want.

But after july 1st closing anything wasn't necessary.

They have closed down the entire country when all that was necessary was to protect the vulnerable. People should be allowed make their own judgements on risky behaviour and not pay for government mismanagement of the health system - ironically we are being led by 2 former ministers for health

sorry not rehashing points I've made at least 10 times ..

MrStuffins · 19-10-2020 10:19AM

paw patrol wrote: »

perhaps I should have been clearer.

I meant not possible to just change the habit of a lifetime to take up a new hobby as you suggest without some impact on them
in the case of the pub (the original point being mental health) no amount of online learning or banjo class will fill the socialising need many have.

I never said it wouldn't have an effect. Of course it will have an effect.

But if your argument is "If sudden changes in routine have an effect on people, then those changes need to be reversed" that would need to include not only pubs but absolutely everything else. And it's not possible!

Changing peoples' routines is not a good enough excuse to reopen the pubs i'm afraid!

paw patrol · 19-10-2020 10:25AM

MrStuffins wrote: »

I never said it wouldn't have an effect. Of course it will have an effect.

But if your argument is "If sudden changes in routine have an effect on people, then those changes need to be reversed" that would need to include not only pubs but absolutely everything else. And it's not possible!

Changing peoples' routines is not a good enough excuse to reopen the pubs i'm afraid!

ok, not sure we'll agree.
In fairness since I want everything (and I mean everything) reopened immediately and I've seen your position on other posts there is probably too much ground for us to meet half way.
So we are where we are .

hmmm · 19-10-2020 10:35AM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

It depends on how effective the vaccine is. We have a vaccine for flu and it varies in effectiveness but it's nowhere near 100% effect (I think they vary between about 40% and 60% effective).

Flu is a very different vaccination. It mutates very rapidly, and the lack of effectiveness is due to the flu vaccination not targeting the correct strain.

Coronavirus looks to be mutating quite slowly, and the target of most vaccines (the spike protein) has not mutated in a way which would prevent vaccines from working.

Some of the more knowledgeable commentators I've read are hoping for 80% effectiveness (or better). That along with a big takeup should make a big impact, although I agree it will take time to manufacture and roll out.

A bigger issue with vaccines will be how long immunity lasts. That's also still an unknown, but it's probably likely we will have to get a jab every few years to maintain immunity and might see repeated outbreaks over our lifetimes.

19-10-2020 10:45AM

paw patrol wrote: »

as somebody who hits the gym 5-6 days a week and has done for about 15 years and then transitioned to exercising in the park over covid lockdown. I can safely say - they aren't the same. not even close.
Not saying the park isn't beneficial - it's better than nothing for sure.

Maybe you should think about cutting down? 5-6 days a week in the gym is a bit of an obsession and would be far beyond what most even regular gym goers would do.

Like you can run outside and get weights at home you should not be compelled to go to the gym to such an extent that not being able to is ruining your life - that’s not healthy.

dmakc · 19-10-2020 10:46AM

Matthew Fat Virtue wrote: »

Maybe you should think about cutting down? 5-6 days a week in the gym is a bit of an obsession and would be far beyond what most even regular gym goers would do.

So ****ing stupid. Sorry

El_Duderino 09 · 19-10-2020 11:09AM

paw patrol wrote: »

as somebody who hits the gym 5-6 days a week and has done for about 15 years and then transitioned to exercising in the park over covid lockdown. I can safely say - they aren't the same. not even close.
Not saying the park isn't beneficial - it's better than nothing for sure.

You mean you prefer the gym over the park or you do different exercise in the gym and the park? Or are you making some kind of claim about the effectiveness of the same exercise in different locations?

If it's the latter then I don't know what to say. If it's the former then it's just a matter of getting used to doing different kinds of exercise and that's up to you whether you want to do that or not. Opening the gyms so you don't have to do anything differently isn't the solution.

Fair play on making the change to exercising somewhere other than the gym BTW.

Thelonious Monk · 19-10-2020 11:17AM

I would be another 5 or 6 times a week gym goer, I have accepted they will be closed tomorrow. I'm not going to start going on about my mental health though because there are plenty of other things to do to keep fit and push yourself. The last lockdown was great because it got me into jogging, something I thought I wasn't built for, and now I can easily run 5k in less than 30 mins and have kept it up since gyms reopened.
And pubs are gone, but they'll be back, we know this for sure. At least I've had way less hangovers and spent far less money on booze because of their closure. Look on the bright side of the situation if you can, there's still lots of things you can be doing to develop yourself.

El_Duderino 09 · 19-10-2020 11:38AM

hmmm wrote: »

Flu is a very different vaccination. It mutates very rapidly, and the lack of effectiveness is due to the flu vaccination not targeting the correct strain.

Coronavirus looks to be mutating quite slowly, and the target of most vaccines (the spike protein) has not mutated in a way which would prevent vaccines from working.

Some of the more knowledgeable commentators I've read are hoping for 80% effectiveness (or better). That along with a big takeup should make a big impact, although I agree it will take time to manufacture and roll out.

A bigger issue with vaccines will be how long immunity lasts. That's also still an unknown, but it's probably likely we will have to get a jab every few years to maintain immunity and might see repeated outbreaks over our lifetimes.

Even getting into the possibility that it won't be near 100% effective and might need vaccinations every few years or maybe more than once a year, combined with the fact that some people will think they're too clever to take a vaccine means that things might never go completely back to normal. I think it will take much longer than people give credit.

Let's imagine the Vaccine becomes tested and approved in on January 1st. Then the task of mass producing it begins. The distributing it and getting people to keep appointments to take it. Begin giving it to the most vulnerable (old, immune compromised, carers and medical staff, so nothing really changes because they weren't out and about very much anyway. A few months later they start moving down the age brackets and start rolling it out to people who are exposed to lots of people because of their jobs, and then when all that's done it will need to be given to younger and the least vulnerable people.

With a population of 4.75m people that needs an average of 13,000 vaccinations per day over 365 days. So taking out Sundays and a few bank holidays you're looking at nearly 16,000 vaccinations per working day. Vaccinations can't always be stored for long so they'll need really good supply chains which will be under maximum demand. Ireland might be able to vaccinate everyone in a year but i don't trust poorly run countries to do it effectively so it will remain a global problem for longer and that impacts travel. Maybe travel remains restricted or maybe travel opens up and we just keep restrictions and distancing in place (meaning reduced numbers at events etc.). Now maybe the first iteration of the vaccine is only effective for 6 months so there's another round of infection and restrictions tighten again.

Or maybe we do live in a fantasy land and the vaccine is approved on January 1st and everyone in the world is immune on January 2nd and life goes back to normal immediately...

funnydoggy · 19-10-2020 11:40AM

Matthew Fat Virtue wrote: »

Maybe you should think about cutting down? 5-6 days a week in the gym is a bit of an obsession and would be far beyond what most even regular gym goers would do.

You don't know much about gyms/weight training/exercise do you?

El_Duderino 09 · 19-10-2020 11:45AM

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I would be another 5 or 6 times a week gym goer, I have accepted they will be closed tomorrow. I'm not going to start going on about my mental health though because there are plenty of other things to do to keep fit and push yourself. The last lockdown was great because it got me into jogging, something I thought I wasn't built for, and now I can easily run 5k in less than 30 mins and have kept it up since gyms reopened.
And pubs are gone, but they'll be back, we know this for sure. At least I've had way less hangovers and spent far less money on booze because of their closure. Look on the bright side of the situation if you can, there's still lots of things you can be doing to develop yourself.

That's great. And fair play for adapting to the circumstances and looking after your health. I think more people should do that. But I also don't discount anyone who says their mental health is suffering.

You did the changes by yourself but othera need help and encouragement to make those changes.

hynesie08 · 19-10-2020 11:50AM

Matthew Fat Virtue wrote: »

Maybe you should think about cutting down? 5-6 days a week in the gym is a bit of an obsession and would be far beyond what most even regular gym goers would do.

Like you can run outside and get weights at home you should not be compelled to go to the gym to such an extent that not being able to is ruining your life - that’s not healthy.

How many days a week is the right amount so nox?

paw patrol · 19-10-2020 12:37PM

dmakc wrote: »

So ****ing stupid. Sorry

hynesie08 wrote: »

How many days a week is the right amount so nox?

he commented on my post, he is just a troll so i won't be commenting on anything he says .

19-10-2020 12:55PM

hynesie08 wrote: »

How many days a week is the right amount so nox?

Zero for me anyway

But I would say from people I know who go twice a week or so would appear to be the norm.

El_Duderino 09 · 19-10-2020 01:13PM

Matthew Fat Virtue wrote: »

Zero for me anyway

But I would say from people I know who go twice a week or so would appear to be the norm.

Drinking 5-6 days a week is perfectly normal, exercising 5-6 days a week is not good. Be serious.

19-10-2020 01:15PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Drinking 5-6 days a week is perfectly normal, exercising 5-6 days a week is not good. Be serious.

I never said drinking 5 - 6 days every week was perfectly normal. I generally drink 3 days a week on a normal week which would be a very normal amount of times to attend the gym also.

El_Duderino 09 · 19-10-2020 01:23PM

Matthew Fat Virtue wrote: »

I never said drinking 5 - 6 days every week was perfectly normal. I generally drink 3 days a week on a normal week which would be a very normal amount of times to attend the gym also.

This is off topic but that not what you say when you're going on about how much you drink and how normal it is.

stephenjmcd · 19-10-2020 01:28PM

Matthew Fat Virtue wrote: »

Zero for me anyway

But I would say from people I know who go twice a week or so would appear to be the norm.

Completely off topic from pubs but twice a week is not the norm.

In my own gym you see the same faces most days of the week.

Out of 7 days I'd usually go 5. 2 days in and 1 rest day and then alternate the days as needed if I can't make it.

Its funny that your spamming multiple threads with the same stuff & that drinking 3 days a week is yet normal... I like a pint as much as the next person but not 3 nights a week, moderation.

ShyMets · 19-10-2020 01:30PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Completely off topic from pubs but twice a week is not the norm.

In my own gym you see the same faces most days of the week.

Out of 7 days I'd usually go 5. 2 days in and 1 rest day and then alternate the days as needed if I can't make it.

Its funny that your spamming multiple threads with the same stuff & that drinking 3 days a week is yet normal... I like a pint as much as the next person but not 3 nights a week, moderation.

You should know by now that there is no point auguring with nox as he is all knowing

PTH2009 · 19-10-2020 02:17PM

Id laugh if they keep pubs open with the same restrictions. 15 max outdoors its so farcical

Open the end of November/start of December with the same restrictions as in August/September. No booking no entry simple as that.

19-10-2020 04:24PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Even getting into the possibility that it won't be near 100% effective and might need vaccinations every few years or maybe more than once a year, combined with the fact that some people will think they're too clever to take a vaccine means that things might never go completely back to normal. I think it will take much longer than people give credit.

Let's imagine the Vaccine becomes tested and approved in on January 1st. Then the task of mass producing it begins. The distributing it and getting people to keep appointments to take it. Begin giving it to the most vulnerable (old, immune compromised, carers and medical staff, so nothing really changes because they weren't out and about very much anyway. A few months later they start moving down the age brackets and start rolling it out to people who are exposed to lots of people because of their jobs, and then when all that's done it will need to be given to younger and the least vulnerable people.

With a population of 4.75m people that needs an average of 13,000 vaccinations per day over 365 days. So taking out Sundays and a few bank holidays you're looking at nearly 16,000 vaccinations per working day. Vaccinations can't always be stored for long so they'll need really good supply chains which will be under maximum demand. Ireland might be able to vaccinate everyone in a year but i don't trust poorly run countries to do it effectively so it will remain a global problem for longer and that impacts travel. Maybe travel remains restricted or maybe travel opens up and we just keep restrictions and distancing in place (meaning reduced numbers at events etc.). Now maybe the first iteration of the vaccine is only effective for 6 months so there's another round of infection and restrictions tighten again.

Or maybe we do live in a fantasy land and the vaccine is approved on January 1st and everyone in the world is immune on January 2nd and life goes back to normal immediately...

I'm not anti-vax, and have had them before, but I won't be signing up for this as:

a) I'm not in a group at risk from Covid (>0.3% chance of dying from it if infected). This would apply to the majority of people. Only the elderly and medically compromised 'need' to be vaccinated, if they choose to do so.

b) Vaccinations require years of longer-term testing to confirm safety. This won't be the case here. I imagine this will be the biggest reason for non-uptake.

19-10-2020 04:58PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not anti-vax, and have had them before, but I won't be signing up for this as:

a) I'm not in a group at risk from Covid (>0.3% chance of dying from it if infected). This would apply to the majority of people. Only the elderly and medically compromised 'need' to be vaccinated, if they choose to do so.

b) Vaccinations require years of longer-term testing to confirm safety. This won't be the case here. I imagine this will be the biggest reason for non-uptake.

You know nothing about vaccines obviously. We need the vast majority of people to get vaccinated in order to protect those most vulnerable (some of whom won’t be able to get vaccinated).

This is the whole process by how vaccines are most effective you want to eradicate the virus and to do this you need almost everyone to be vaccinated regardless of if they think they won’t be impacted (you are very foolish to assume you won’t get very very sick from covid btw).

So yes you are anti-vax, the points you make are that of an anti vaxers but you just won’t admit it

El_Duderino 09 · 19-10-2020 05:05PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'm not anti-vax, and have had them before, but I won't be signing up for this as:

a) I'm not in a group at risk from Covid (>0.3% chance of dying from it if infected). This would apply to the majority of people. Only the elderly and medically compromised 'need' to be vaccinated, if they choose to do so.

b) Vaccinations require years of longer-term testing to confirm safety. This won't be the case here. I imagine this will be the biggest reason for non-uptake.

Oh yes. Everyone who doesn't get the vaccination will have reasons why they're terribly clever for not doing so and we can't cure that attitude. So the fact that lots of people won't be vaccinated, will only prolong the restrictions. That was my point.

The vaccine being approved could well be 18 months or 2 years from the end of restrictions in places like pubs, sports and cultural events

IAMAMORON · 19-10-2020 05:38PM

I would say as soon as vaccines are getting rolled out it will be all systems go. Anyone refusing one will be left behind. I cannot see employers tolerating staff refusing them, unless they can provide proper medical reasons for not opting for inoculation anyone working will be obliged to take one, particularly health and other frontline staff.

They are talking up vaccinations by Christmas at this point. Anyone who has underlining issues will be mad to not facilitate any new vaccine rollout.

Pubs will be open the day vaccines start, if not before.

19-10-2020 05:54PM

Noelle Long Page wrote: »

You know nothing about vaccines obviously. We need the vast majority of people to get vaccinated in order to protect those most vulnerable (some of whom won’t be able to get vaccinated).

This is the whole process by how vaccines are most effective you want to eradicate the virus and to do this you need almost everyone to be vaccinated regardless of if they think they won’t be impacted (you are very foolish to assume you won’t get very very sick from covid btw).

So yes you are anti-vax, the points you make are that of an anti vaxers but you just won’t admit it

You say "anti-vax" as if it's some sort of label to be scared of

Every individual has the right to consent. To flip your label, I would say big pharma love "pro-vaxers" like yourself. You'll be pleased to hear they're already suggesting you'll be requiring multiple doses. Nothing to do with money, obviously. You can have mine.

Elon Musk said he won't be taking the vax as he's also "not at risk from Covid". It's highly likely he knows more about it all than you, considering he's... er, Elon Musk. Maybe also the fact that he's in business with CureVac, one of the vaccine developers.

I'll side with Elon Musk over you on this one. Good luck and good health to you, regardless.

IAMAMORON · 19-10-2020 06:00PM

Deleted User wrote: »

You say "anti-vax" as if it's some sort of label to be scared of Every individual has the right to consent. To flip your label, I would say big pharma love "pro-vaxers" like yourself. You'll be pleased to hear they're already suggesting you'll be requiring multiple doses. Nothing to do with money, obviously. You can have mine.

Elon Musk said he won't be taking the vax as he's also "not at risk from Covid". It's highly likely he knows more about it all than you, considering he's... er, Elon Musk. Maybe also the fact that he's in business with CureVac, one of the vaccine developers.

I'll side with Elon Musk over you on this one. Good luck and good health to you, regardless.

I doubt employees will get the option. You will be forced to either inoculate or don't come to work.

See how that pans out.

fin12 · 19-10-2020 06:02PM

IAMAMORON wrote: »

I doubt employees will get the option. You will be forced to either inoculate or don't come to work.

See how that pans out.

Nope, not going to happen. And sorry but working from home is going to be the future so it’s none of your employers business whether u are vaccinated or not.

IAMAMORON · 19-10-2020 06:09PM

fin12 wrote: »

Nope, not going to happen. And sorry but working from home is going to be the future so it’s none of your employers business whether u are vaccinated or not.

I would say it will be when you have the option of attending your workplace or not getting paid.

As I said, see how that one pans out.

El_Duderino 09 · 19-10-2020 06:11PM

IAMAMORON wrote: »

I would say as soon as vaccines are getting rolled out it will be all systems go. Anyone refusing one will be left behind. I cannot see employers tolerating staff refusing them, unless they can provide proper medical reasons for not opting for inoculation anyone working will be obliged to take one, particularly health and other frontline staff.

They are talking up vaccinations by Christmas at this point. Anyone who has underlining issues will be mad to not facilitate any new vaccine rollout.

Pubs will be open the day vaccines start, if not before.

Medical stuff is private. Anti vaxers will probably have every right to choose whether to get a vaccine or not. You're describing what you want to be the the case.

Same with pubs opening the day vaccination becomes approved. Pubs sure open todsy if that's what you mean. There's a long way to go between vaccination becoming available and things going back to normal.

People's capacity for unrealistic optimism is endless. Totally disjointed from rurality

Opening of "No-Food" pubs pushed out again

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