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Covid 19 Part XXVI- 50,993 ROI (1,852 deaths) 28,040 NI (621 deaths) (19/10) Read OP

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Comments

  • #6602
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,733 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    Doesn't matter if the army is on the streets. People are not scared any more the way they were in March. If they are not complying now they are not more likely to next week.

    You can't enforce it without buy in. Maybe the focus should be on that rather then authoritarian fantasies that are not going to happen and won't work anyway.


  • #6603
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 78,464 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    I've no idea why some people are getting wound up over the possible involvement of the army

    The defence forces were mobilised during the "first wave" - nothing to do with controlling people, but all to do with their logistics abilities/expertise. They are better used during this pandemic than sitting at home/in their barracks under "lockdown"


  • #6604
    JP Liz V1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 91,387 ✭✭✭✭JP Liz V1


    martingriff wrote: »
    Where is the evidence that this is going to happen.

    I was asking why involving the army to break up gatherings etc., and help the Gardai was such a no no idea, riled many on this thread up and even got one talking of leaving the country :p there is no evidence it is going to happen it was just a suggestion
    https://forumofgames.com/




  • #6605
    Eod100
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,232 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    FrogmanBegins wrote: »
    I don't know why but some older folks seem to think that WWII was an exercise in character building rather than a horrific conflict that left 60 million people dead. Too many John Wayne war films I guess.

    I think it's more the children of the generation who lived through it. Anyone who lived through it would rightly not wish it on anyone. Some who never lived through it have a rosy tinted view of Blitz spirit etc. See same rhetoric with Brexit. Despite many who lived through it being in favour of the EU as they know what came before it.


  • #6606
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,733 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    Do people think Ireland fought in the second world war. What relevance is it to anyone? Why is this rolled out like it's anything to do with anything.


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  • #6607
    JP Liz V1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 91,387 ✭✭✭✭JP Liz V1


    Polar101 wrote: »
    We don't need the Defence Forces for crowd control. That's a job for the AGS.

    I wouldn't be comfortable introducing curfews or even fines (other than businesses deliberately breaking restrictions, maybe) - it's not the kind of society I want to see. None of these were needed in March/April, so I don't think they are needed now either.

    But curfews and fines might stop the house parties and large gatherings which seem to have gotten worse imho
    https://forumofgames.com/




  • #6608
    votecounts
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,637 ✭✭✭votecounts


    Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »
    Would anyone take the army seriously? And how long would it be before they put in a dodgy claim and retired? They are not really used to real work.
    Dare you say this to anyone who is in the army, you've obviously never seen them helping out people when bad weather hits, manning covid stations, peacekeeping, etc.


  • #6609
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,733 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    JP Liz V1 wrote: »
    But curfews and fines might stop the house parties and large gatherings which seem to have gotten worse imho

    I agree. If you are closing business and putting people out of jobs I don't see why you cannot have a curfew.


  • #6610
    RoryMac
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,636 ✭✭✭RoryMac


    Beasty wrote: »
    I've no idea why some people are getting wound up over the possible involvement of the army

    The defence forces were mobilised during the "first wave" - nothing to do with controlling people, but all to do with their logistics abilities/expertise. They are better used during this pandemic than sitting at home/in their barracks under "lockdown"

    Because now people are suggesting they should be involved in controlling people.

    You are right, the DF have done great work 'behind the scenes' and that's where they are best placed to continue that


  • #6611
    Cilldara_2000
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭Cilldara_2000


    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    Do people think Ireland fought in the second world war. What relevance is it to anyone? Why is this rolled out like it's anything to do with anything.

    Plenty of Irish people did fight on WWII and it was hardly a picnic in this country at the time.

    But still I'm kinda sick of the few people of that generation who go on about how great they are for having made it through the grim 1950s, the threat of nuclear war in the 1960s, bell bottoms in the 1970s, etc. These are also the richest generation in history and are likely to remain so on account of how they tanked the global economy and then pulled the drawbridge up after themselves, safe with their defined benefit pensions. Give me the generation who actually lived through WWII all day long over that lot.


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  • #6612
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,130 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Beasty wrote: »
    I've no idea why some people are getting wound up over the possible involvement of the army

    The defence forces were mobilised during the "first wave" - nothing to do with controlling people, but all to do with their logistics abilities/expertise. They are better used during this pandemic than sitting at home/in their barracks under "lockdown"

    It's the optics of the Army in a Democracy really.

    But hey if it keep the morons from just doing what they want to do and feel entitled, I have no objection personally.

    The idiots who continue to buck trend are problematic, so are those who insist on gathering wherever.

    I know it is tough but hey, we are trying our best apart from the Entitled Cohort now.


  • #6613
    mcburns07
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,413 ✭✭✭mcburns07


    Beasty wrote: »
    I've no idea why some people are getting wound up over the possible involvement of the army

    The defence forces were mobilised during the "first wave" - nothing to do with controlling people, but all to do with their logistics abilities/expertise. They are better used during this pandemic than sitting at home/in their barracks under "lockdown"

    I don't think anybody has raised any concerns with the army assisting with logistics etc? The bone of contention is suggestions that the army are used to enforce restrictions / police.

    One poster mentioned how they were used to enforce curfews across Europe. We really do not want to go down that road.....


  • #6614
    Goldengirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,137 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    joeguevara wrote: »
    Maybe not 30 years but 19 years ago Ireland pretty much ground to a halt because of the foot and mouth outbreak. All public events were cancelled including GAA and 6 nations. All forrests and parks closed. Snipers shooting wild deer and other animals. Pretty much all rural ireland and the U.K. were locked down as they were the places that at risk animals were. This was a disease that posed no danger to humans but everyone had no issue following the recommendations imposed.

    Interesting that the following quote in the Irish Times resonated with everyone ‘ Readers are reminded strongly that, when considering short breaks, they should bear in mind the implications of the current outbreak of foot and mouth disease … Readers should be responsible and should always comply with the advice and recommendations of the authorities at home and abroad. These include limitations on travel and disinfection procedures at the points of entry and exit.”

    If there was this outbreak then and before, there clearly would have been a lockdown. There wouldn’t have been protests by people who were sent an article from a hick homeopath from Arkansas or from fake profiles. There would have been adherence.

    Mats everywhere with disinfectant.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/heritage/when-foot-and-mouth-disease-ground-ireland-to-a-halt-1.4075761

    This. +1.

    Nobody here calling for martial law or army on the streets .
    That is just the anti lockdown WUMs trying to take the pvss.
    Of those who are too young to remember the Army helping in other crises in the country , and elsewhere .
    Nobody wants our little state ruined either by the virus or by too many lockdowna..
    What I and some others have said is that if we go to level 4 / 5 to suppress infection levels , not much point if some eejits aren't complying .Then enforcement of restrictions is necessary with laws to support Gardaí enforcement should be passed .
    If that needs the army assisting the AGS then I have no problem with it .
    I would feel safer with them on the streets than some of the langers we have seen in action over the last few months , outside the pubs and after matches ffs, totally ignoring any requests or polite reminders from NPHET or MM to give it a miss for the sake of others .


  • #6615
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,733 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    Cilldara_2000 wrote: »
    Plenty of Irish people did fight on WWII and it was hardly a picnic in this country at the time.

    But still I'm kinda sick of the few people of that generation who go on about how great they are for having made it through the grim 1950s, the threat of nuclear war in the 1960s, bell bottoms in the 1970s, etc. These are also the richest generation in history and are likely to remain so on account of how they tanked the global economy and then pulled the drawbridge up after themselves, safe with their defined benefit pensions. Give me the generation who actually lived through WWII all day long over that lot.

    It's being talked about here like we were in it. It's seventy years ago. Most of the people who fought it are dead. It's not something that is part of this country's history. So the comparison of the great generation is not relevant to Ireland. And completely irrelevant to Covid.


  • #6616
    FrogmanBegins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 57 ✭✭FrogmanBegins


    Eod100 wrote: »
    I think it's more the children of the generation who lived through it. Anyone who lived through it would rightly not wish it on anyone. Some who never lived through it have a rosy tinted view of Blitz spirit etc. See same rhetoric with Brexit. Despite many who lived through it being in favour of the EU as they know what came before it.

    Either way it's shockingly ignorant and immature of people to draw that comparison


  • #6617
    RoryMac
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,636 ✭✭✭RoryMac


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    It's the optics of the Army in a Democracy really.

    But hey if it keep the morons from just doing what they want to do and feel entitled, I have no objection personally.

    The idiots who continue to buck trend are problematic, so are those who insist on gathering wherever.

    I know it is tough but hey, we are trying our best apart from the Entitled Cohort now.

    Yeah send the guards and army into the schools and workplaces where the issues are to bang a few heads


  • #6618
    Doctors room ghost
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,840 ✭✭✭Doctors room ghost


    Will the army lads have the butter guns on them ready to take down a pasta grabber


  • #6619
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 78,464 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    RoryMac wrote: »
    Because now people are suggesting they should be involved in controlling people.
    That's what people were suggesting way back in something like thread X or XI....


  • #6620
    46 Long
    Closed Accounts Posts: 355 ✭✭46 Long


    JP Liz V1 wrote: »
    But curfews and fines might stop the house parties and large gatherings which seem to have gotten worse imho

    The house parties are getting worse because the pubs are closed and people are out of work. We've just shifted the interactions from controlled to uncontrolled environments and made things worse in the process.

    You cannot keep repressing the hard-wired, basic need that people have to socialize with other humans.


  • #6621
    mcburns07
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,413 ✭✭✭mcburns07


    Beasty wrote: »
    That's what people were suggesting way back in something like thread X or XI....

    Eh if you look a few posts above there's a poster suggesting they could assist the Gardai in enforcing restrictions......


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  • #6622
    Ger Roe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,196 ✭✭✭Ger Roe


    mcburns07 wrote: »
    Eh if you look a few posts above there's a poster suggesting they could assist the Gardai in enforcing restrictions......

    And they could.... it's a fact.


  • #6623
    Goldengirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,137 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    AnniePowwa wrote: »
    Not even remotely similar

    Exactly .
    That is what we are talking about .
    Not the army in the street with guns :)


  • #6624
    ACitizenErased
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,766 ✭✭✭✭ACitizenErased


    Ger Roe wrote: »
    And they could.... it's a fact.
    What can the army possibly do when none of the "restrictions" are in law? They're literally not even restrictions, they're guidelines.


  • #6625
    Goldengirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,137 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Cilldara_2000 wrote: »
    All sorts of events were cancelled but you could still go for pints with your friends, shake hands with people, get the shift, etc. It's not all that comparable IMO.

    No , but that is not the point he was making .


  • #6626
    Widdensushi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,583 ✭✭✭Widdensushi


    RoryMac wrote: »
    The problem is young people know they are not in danger from this virus, the messages about greater good are being ignored the same as they would be by every generation of youth. Teens and young adults have always believed themselves to be invincible and that's still the case.

    We need to face that fact and work with it, all the messaging is falling on deaf ears. I'm not saying for a second this is a good thing.

    We had 7 months now to find better ways to protect the vulnerable be it increase hospital capacity, better testing and tracing and have failed.

    Measures like curfews will be easily to get around for people who want to so is a pointless use of resources that will only affect genuine workers or carers trying to do their best.

    Tbh all of this is kind of a mute point imo because any logical thinking would suggest schools and workplaces are where the virus is spreading at present. Traffic nationwide has stayed at the same levels since the latest round of restrictions, people are going to school and work as if nothing has changed, with schools staying open this is unlikely to change this week

    Not going reading all of that, in my experience it is predominantly the older people are saying **** restrictions I will live my remaining time well


  • #6627
    Ger Roe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,196 ✭✭✭Ger Roe


    ACitizenErased wrote: »
    What can the army possibly do when none of the "restrictions" are in law? They're literally not even restrictions, they're guidelines.

    I don't know the answer to that question, but it remains a fact that they can be instructed to aid the civil power, at any time.

    What exactly they might be asked to do, is a question for the government that raises that request.


  • #6628
    Jim_Hodge
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,231 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    Widdensushi wrote: »
    Not going reading all of that, in my experience it is predominantly the older people are saying **** restrictions I will live my remaining time well

    Yeah right :rolleyes:

    How many? One, two people...


  • #6629
    MrMusician18
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,139 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    stephenjmcd wrote: »
    Well if you read up on what he's said previously then you'll know exactly what I mean.

    You have no idea if his statements are usually conservative.


  • #6630
    ACitizenErased
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,766 ✭✭✭✭ACitizenErased


    Ger Roe wrote: »
    I don't know the answer to that question, but it remains a fact that they can be instructed to aid the civil power, at any time.

    What exactly they might be asked to do, is a question for the government that raises that request.
    So they'll just stand around and do nothing? Because there's nothing to enforce. That sounds like a waste of money to me.


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  • #6631
    batman75
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 710 ✭✭✭batman75


    I wonder does the public realise that any wage substitution or subsidy from the state is subject to tax. I think a lot of folks are in for a rude awakening next year.


This discussion has been closed.
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