Covid 19 Part XXVI- 50,993 ROI (1,852 deaths) 28,040 NI (621 deaths) (19/10) Read OP

iamwhoiam · 18-10-2020 02:31PM

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

You know, I was just thinking there (and that's dangerous), back in March/April etc. we actually had Level 5 ++. AFAIR everything was closed apart from supermarkets, off licenses and pharmacies. Schools closed, diy closed, the lot.

It seems so long ago that I can't really remember but the streets were very quiet and traffic was minimal. It worked though, until two sets of restrictions were merged and lifted at the same time. It has all gone South since, and coupled with the reopening of schools, well that's where it all began to grow again IMO.

Just reminiscing in case we have to go back there again.

I always thought that step of opening two sets of restrictions together was a huge mistake . It made people complacent and careless

GazzaL · 18-10-2020 02:31PM

owlbethere wrote: »

I don't know what the latest update is regarding the levels. Reading the past few posts it reads as if we will be moved up a level. That's very disappointing to hear. There isn't a problem with spread in retail. The problem virus spread area is within homes and gatherings and people not following the guidelines properly. Moving up a level and shutting retail isn't going to target the problem area where spread is occurring. Its very disappointing.

Not just disappointing, it's complete and utter bull****.

BringBackMick · 18-10-2020 02:36PM

El Sueño wrote: »

What's the point of the "look how great New Zealand are doing, they have crowds at stadiums yay" type posts?

I don't give a **** about New Zealand and that's not happening here so I have no interest in seeing that.

It is people trying to make a point, that has been exposed on so many occasions as not possible in this country.

However, 3 or 4 posters post daily a reminder that NZ has very few COVID cases.

Russman · 18-10-2020 02:36PM

TheQuietBeatle wrote: »

A complete lock down will work short term but we will be back to square 1 by Christmas. It's depressing but we need a plan in place where we learn to live with the virus and protect/lock down only those most at risk.

Apart from the “I’m alright jack” element of that, some estimates are that up to 40% of the population are vulnerable.

political analyst · 18-10-2020 02:37PM

Restrictions of at least Level 4 are imminent.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/simon-harris-signals-imminent-move-to-at-least-level-4-covid-19-restrictions-nationwide-1.4384095

Real Donald Trump · 18-10-2020 02:38PM

People still harping on about NZ. I wonder will they change their tune when it flares up again out there? They went months without a case before, just remember that. You cannot eradicate a virus such as covid, end off!

greenfield21 · 18-10-2020 02:38PM

El Sueño wrote: »

What's the point of the "look how great New Zealand are doing, they have crowds at stadiums yay" type posts?

I don't give a **** about New Zealand and that's not happening here so I have no interest in seeing that.

Yeah because no one seems to realise this is an island with only 5 million people. The ease at which decisions can be made here compared to other countries. If any country in Europe should pursue zero covid it's Ireland. The government have no clue what their doing.

owlbethere · 18-10-2020 02:38PM

GazzaL wrote: »

Not just disappointing, it's complete and utter bull****.

It is bullsh1t. The talk of moving up a level and closing retail is cause panic in some people (not me though) and that will have many people rush out and get into crowds this weekend and probably mid week until the new level with closures kicks. That's going to be counter productive in controlling the spread of the virus.

It's also bullsh1t because it's not targeting the problem areas of spread and I think that's within households and parties.

owlbethere · 18-10-2020 02:40PM

political analyst wrote: »

Restrictions of at least Level 4 are imminent.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/simon-harris-signals-imminent-move-to-at-least-level-4-covid-19-restrictions-nationwide-1.4384095

What would level 4 mean? Currently we are a bit of mish-mash of all the levels.

s1ippy · 18-10-2020 02:41PM

BringBackMick wrote: »

Very disappointing to hear they are going to introduce unnecessary closures to retail just to keep the lockdown hawks happy.

They need to hold tight, the current measures of level 3 ++ will work if given time.

No doubt they will close the rest and celebrate success at level 5 when cases peak and begin to decline in 7 days when this is a result of the current measures not the nonsensical full lockdown..

My hope is that some sense will prevail like 6pm closing hours or something rather than complete shutdown.

Yeah I don't think many really see the sense in completely closing retail, to be honest. The jobs lost will definitely outweigh the lives saved by that particular measure, provided the shops are actually enforcing the rules currently.

mandrake04 · 18-10-2020 02:42PM

SeaBreezes wrote: »

It really annoys me when i hear this. Its like kiwis never travel or dont have airports or fly. No ship freight?

In this day and age NO.country is isolated. They just control their airports and ports.

We can too.

Yeah I agree with you, but if you don’t mention that NZ is isolated it upsets the retards.

stephenjmcd · 18-10-2020 02:42PM

Well worth a read if anyone has an account with the Times.

As flagged on the Vaccine thread by Hmmm there's quite a big claim in it,

"An MP who attended another briefing with Van-Tam said he was “very bullish about the third stage AstraZeneca results, which he expects between the end of this month and the end of next”. The MP said: “Van-Tam expects it to protect the elderly and vulnerable. He gave us to understand that it stopped the virus ‘shedding’ in the young. He said he would expect vaccination to start in January.”

The big claim there is the claim that Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine stopped the virus shedding in the young.
Now we wait for another few weeks for the data to be made public but its a very big claim to make and you would have to assume that Van-Tam has had a look at data so far.

Sir Jeremy Farrar also talking up vaccine rollout in Q1 2021 of more than 1 vaccine, and he would usually be very conservative.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/hope-for-covid-vaccine-at-new-year-25b52b86s

Loafing Oaf · 18-10-2020 02:43PM

owlbethere wrote: »

What would level 4 mean?

Closing 'non-essential' retail is the main difference from what we're doing now, AFAIK

is_that_so · 18-10-2020 02:44PM

owlbethere wrote: »

What would level 4 mean? Currently we are a bit of mish-mash of all the levels.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/1014/1171567-at-a-glance-what-does-level-4-mean/

TheQuietBeatle · 18-10-2020 02:45PM

Russman wrote: »

Apart from the “I’m alright jack” element of that, some estimates are that up to 40% of the population are vulnerable.

A complete lock down will kill the economy - I'd rather 40% versus 100%.

We are going to be completely screwed in 2021/beyond when people stop being able to afford their costs. It's really worrying.

Irish Steve · 18-10-2020 02:46PM

SusanC10 wrote: »

The problem is the movement of people and people interacting with each other.
That needs to reduce.
It won't if everything stays open - retail, construction, gyms, schools, pubs, churches, offices, restaurants, hotels, factories etc
So a decision needs to be made as to which of these are closed. In order that the Hospitals are not overwhelmed.

And to make the decision about what order to close the different sectors, we need to know the numbers of infections coming from each of them, and there's the problem, we have no method to accurately determine the numbers to make the decision. It really should not be beyond our capability to be able to sort out the details more clearly.

Track and trace doesn't work for this, partly because it doesn't go back far enough, and partly because people's memory can be remarkably selective about the recall of where they were and who they met, it's hard enough remembering accurately for a few days, 10 days is a stretch beyond most people's comfort zone.

We have to learn how to differentiate nice to have from essential.

Things like power, food, water, fuel for travel, for most, they are essentials.

Hospitality, in most cases is a nice to have, but it's not essential, no matter how much complaining is done, pubs have been seen to be a high risk environment, restaurants less of a risk, and hotels lower again, but an urgent change needs to be the banning of visors in places like restaurants, they present a real risk to people seated if the wearer is standing as the visor directs airflow down on to the people seated.

Overseas travel (both ways) is a problem right now, Covid spread as fast as it did because it wasn't recognised in the early days, and many people travelled world wide while carrying it. Nothing much has changed there, so there are some fundamentals there to be addressed, which hasn't been the case up to now.

We need to have a sensible discussion about "essential" retail, in that some retail is not critical to day to day living, but those outlets have not been seen to be significant contributors to the spread of Covid, so allowing them to remain open is a judgement call.

My need for food is clear, my desire for the latest and greatest electronic technology is not so clear, I might need a new phone or computer to be able to work, but a new 65" TV is not so clear an essential, but a new washing machine for a large family will be urgent, as there are limited alternatives, so deciding what is essential is not so easy.

Level 3 with overnight curfews should be capable of lowering the R rate, if there is also a higher level of enforcement with sanctions for people that don't obey the rules, and they NEED to be rules, this namby pamby "guidance" c**p that they keep coming out with is a clear indication of a complete abdication of responbsibility from leadership. Saying don't travel, and then not giving Gardai any enforcement ability is a complete waste of time.

completedit · 18-10-2020 02:47PM

The whole framework for arguing for an against covid restrictions is predicated on individual circumstances. People who are doing very well financially out of Covid arguining for more and more restrictions is all well and good but if you can't see that people who are the most impacted by downturns might have a problem with what is going on then that's just disingenuous.

There's no right or wrong. Just differing perspectives.

jackboy · 18-10-2020 02:49PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

The big claim there is the claim that Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine stopped the virus shedding in the young.
Now we wait for another few weeks for the data to be made public but its a very big claim to make and you would have to assume that Van-Tam has had a look at data so far.

More than likely he is talking nonsense and is an attention seeker. It’s possible but less likely that the trial has been compromised and people who shouldn’t, have seen and processed data.

Nermal · 18-10-2020 02:49PM

SeaBreezes wrote: »

It really annoys me when i hear this. Its like kiwis never travel or dont have airports or fly. No ship freight?

None delivered by ro-ro ferries, no. Worries about ‘long COVID’ will be far from front of mind when the shelves at Tesco are empty the day after you implement your strategy. What NZ pursued has never been and will never be an option for us.

BobbyMalone · 18-10-2020 02:50PM

greenfield21 wrote: »

Yeah because no one seems to realise this is an island with only 5 million people. The ease at which decisions can be made here compared to other countries. If any country in Europe should pursue zero covid it's Ireland. The government have no clue what their doing.

An island with a border. Pointless comparison unless we have an all-Ireland approach, which I can't see happening given the political realities up north.

MrMusician18 · 18-10-2020 02:51PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Well worth a read if anyone has an account with the Times.

As flagged on the Vaccine thread by Hmmm there's quite a big claim in it,

"An MP who attended another briefing with Van-Tam said he was “very bullish about the third stage AstraZeneca results, which he expects between the end of this month and the end of next”. The MP said: “Van-Tam expects it to protect the elderly and vulnerable. He gave us to understand that it stopped the virus ‘shedding’ in the young. He said he would expect vaccination to start in January.”

The big claim there is the claim that Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine stopped the virus shedding in the young.
Now we wait for another few weeks for the data to be made public but its a very big claim to make and you would have to assume that Van-Tam has had a look at data so far.

Sir Jeremy Farrar also talking up vaccine rollout in Q1 2021 of more than 1 vaccine, and he would usually be very conservative.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/hope-for-covid-vaccine-at-new-year-25b52b86s

You know him well, do you?

fly_agaric · 18-10-2020 02:53PM

SleetAndSnow wrote: »

There's still yet to be any proof that NPHET leaked it and Tony said multiple times that NPHET did not leak it.

They are also being blamed for leaking the second letter, which imo, is bs. In the briefing they were severely tight-lipped about the NPHET meeting and RTE even said "government sources" confirmed it to them. To accuse them yet again is ridiculous without the proof. There are plenty of ministers out to get NPHET atm so if I was a betting man, my bet would be on one of them.

We've seen countless times in the course of this new government "sources" saying what is happening in the meeting. Its like a broken tap, dripping everything to the media

I do wonder about these "leaks" alright.
NPHET don't seem to have much to gain. Could help put pressure on govt. to go with their recommendations, but at the very high cost of damaging relationship with the govt. severely (as we have seen already with them being blamed for prior leaks).
Civil servants don't tend to leak - can be harshly punished for it in multiple ways extending even beyond losing their jobs. That leaves two groups who by coincidence spend a lot of their time talking to the media/journalists & on media management (politicians privy to these discussions & political "advisors" etc)

stephenjmcd · 18-10-2020 02:53PM

jackboy wrote: »

More than likely he is talking nonsense and is an attention seeker. It’s possible but less likely that the trial has been compromised and people who shouldn’t, have seen and processed data.

Van-Tam is the deputy CMO in the UK. Its an absolute massive claim. If someone is going to have seen data it would absolutely be him.

Given its being funded by UK government then yes they would be given on going data.

But yeah I'm sure the deputy CMO in the UK is an attention seeker... christ

stephenjmcd · 18-10-2020 02:54PM

MrMusician18 wrote: »

You know him well, do you?

Well if you read up on what he's said previously then you'll know exactly what I mean.

Rob A. Bank · 18-10-2020 02:58PM

BobbyMalone wrote: »

An island with a border. Pointless comparison unless we have an all-Ireland approach, which I can't see happening given the political realities up north.

They agreed to an 'all-Ireland' approach when animal health was threatened with the Foot & Mouth virus... and that was when the most rabid of Unionists, Dr Ian Paisley' was in charge of the DUP.

That virus could spread for 3 KM... not the few meters that Covid can muster.

A shame that the same approach is not used now, when human health is at stake.

BringBackMick · 18-10-2020 03:00PM

What are hospital numbers looking like today?

18-10-2020 03:00PM

What I don't get is the anti lockdown people who are also anti vaccine? Could somebody explain to me what the hell is going through their head to be able to be both

Away With The Fairies · 18-10-2020 03:02PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What I don't get is the anti lockdown people who are also anti vaccine? Could somebody explain to me what the hell is going through their head to be able to be both

They're also anti-mask.

Loafing Oaf · 18-10-2020 03:02PM

Deleted User wrote: »

What I don't get is the anti lockdown people who are also anti vaccine? Could somebody explain to me what the hell is going through their head to be able to be both

A lot of them probably hardcore libertarian incel types who have little empathy for others and don't much value their own lives either.

jackboy · 18-10-2020 03:03PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

But yeah I'm sure the deputy CMO in the UK is an attention seeker... christ

Why not....because he has a big job. Sure the president of the US could never be an attention seeker by that logic.

We have seen from the start, top officials, scientists and politicians behaving like attention seekers to the media. Some are keeping quiet until trials are fully complete and data is processed, reviewed and approved.

Covid 19 Part XXVI- 50,993 ROI (1,852 deaths) 28,040 NI (621 deaths) (19/10) Read OP

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