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Covid 19 Part XXVI- 50,993 ROI (1,852 deaths) 28,040 NI (621 deaths) (19/10) Read OP

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Comments

  • #5762
    speckle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,251 ✭✭✭speckle


    m
    440Hertz wrote: »
    Emm, because they’re not an egotistical, fact free, reality tv show billionaire running for the American presidency who will say anything to get elected perhaps?!

    I’m just saying that any issues around the Trump case are extremely unlikely to be useful for anything objective or scientific.


    Which is why I said the source of the discussion was TWIV. Ct values have been dismissed here and other places when joe soaps get tested.
    I have been posting on this thread over 8 months and people know my views, I am not party political but human centered and not a fool to rule anything out just because it is spoken by the medical staff treating a particular person. So pretty impartial, and I never judge a person by how much money they have or not, but on their actions.

    It is the scientifc issue of pcr-ct values and its implications for people I am intetested in. It would be nice to know if I got a pcr test if I am going into the infectious period or coming out if it. Has ramifications for my health and wellbeing regarding treatments or whether I can go back to work. That is important.


  • #5763
    political analyst
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,004 ✭✭✭political analyst


    Caquas wrote: »
    Even level-headed commentators are sinking to the tactics of the Twitterati when it comes to this Declaration.

    Colm McCarthy's article in today's Sindo is a glaring exception to the high-calibre data analysis and rational commentary which has distinguished his long career as an economic commentator. He takes a highly selective approach - focussing on two of the eight facts in the IT ad, . He is not generally known for his intellectual modesty and I suspect he feared to venture into debate on anything more complicated that the first two facts:

    and


    He then explains that the first number is a mean (average) and criticises the ad for making a comparison between a mean and a median number. Sadly, he doesn't tell us what the mean age of death from COVID-19 but he does introduce a very different number - the number of more years an 83 year old in Ireland can expect to live (8.47 for women, 7.14 for men). He also claims that some estimates say that as much as 30% of the Irish population can be classed as "vulnerable" .


    We need intelligent evidence-based debate and the experts should admit that they didn't fully understand this virus when the pandemic began. The first thing the government did was to close all the schools (after Leo met VP Mike Pence!), now we are going to keep the schools open when everything else must close. How about those masks? And is Leo right to say the virus is spread by door-bells? Even before the pandemic, we needed a serious debate about health care and quality of life for the very elderly. The nursing home debacle in the Spring was the worst failure of this pandemic thus far. "Cocooning" has become an Orwellian term for social isolation.


    Instead of reasoned debate, we get this kind of snarky, dismissive comment, attacking the credibility of a dissenter and threatening her institutional position.



    This baseless, disparaging remark would be a career-ending comment for Colm McCarthy if Dr. Gupta had been writing about race or gender. But because she is taking the "wrong" side of the COVID debate, she becomes fair game. The Sindo dropped Kevin Myers like a scalding latke for much less.
    https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/see-saw-let-it-rip-and-zero-covid-three-strategies-but-only-one-works-39637221.html

    Myers had previously written for the Irish Independent but it was The Sunday Times that sacked him.

    As for Dr. Gupta, I don't think she'll care what some Irish economist who she probably hasn't even heard of writes about her.


  • #5764
    TheQuietBeatle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 614 ✭✭✭TheQuietBeatle


    Scuid Mhór wrote: »
    Harris’ comment ten minutes ago basically confirms we are going up to level four if not five. The focal points of debate then will have to shift from “should we increase restrictions?” to “how will they be increased?”

    I think this is better for the country as a whole — I feel that there is a chance this could go on into December. We let our guard down, we should have acted faster. Now we have to mitigate the damage as best as we can.

    A complete lock down will work short term but we will be back to square 1 by Christmas. It's depressing but we need a plan in place where we learn to live with the virus and protect/lock down only those most at risk.


  • #5765
    titan18
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,052 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    JP Liz V1 wrote: »
    How did the GAA games still go ahead?

    Ya, they really should be pulled. It's one thing if they're all professional and don't have other jobs, but when they're going to be travelling around the country and then going into work the days after, it's a bit stupid with all the other restrictions.


  • #5766
    The Tetrarch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,085 ✭✭✭The Tetrarch


    rob316 wrote: »
    Mortality rate 0.1%
    Nice shifting of the goalposts there.
    What he said
    Originally Posted by rob316
    It's called people wanting to live their lives when the virus will have no effect on 99.9% of us.

    It has already affected 0.98%, not 0.1%. They got the virus.
    He also assumed that the virus "will have no effect" on 99.9% of us.
    How does he predict future infections?


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  • #5767
    Messi19
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 750 ✭✭✭Messi19


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    You really really want the schools closed don't you ?

    They won't close the schools for fear of such a measure actually working. If they did then how could they justify opening back up again


  • #5768
    theballz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,272 ✭✭✭theballz


    I really hope for the mental health and well-being of people that gyms are allowed remain open (with tighter precautions.)


  • #5769
    Ger Roe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,196 ✭✭✭Ger Roe


    Kh1993 wrote: »
    Hopefully NPHET present the data on how dangerous retail is so we can all start wearing hazmats on our weekly shopping trips.

    Because it must be so dangerous if we’re considering killing the majority of retail and putting people on the dole.

    They are trying to restrict movement and interaction, it's just that simple. Less options to go places means less movement and interaction.

    If people did it for themselves and only went out and about when they actually have to, and protected themselves and others when they did so, then we would not be in this position.

    The restrictions, and the plan don't make sense, everyone knows that, it's just a bad attempt at trying to explain the bleeding obvious to some people.

    Don't go out unless you have to and observe the precautions - even that message doesn't get through to all.


  • #5770
    political analyst
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,004 ✭✭✭political analyst


    Wolf359f wrote: »
    I'm not sure why you are mentioning Australia., but I'll bite.
    Per capita, they have 30% more beds than us, and 40% more ICU beds.
    Out average capacity is 95%, pretty much the highest in the world (based on the figures I could find)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_hospital_beds
    Now, they have less covid patients and less cases than us, so why are you comparing Ireland to Australia?

    Just to add, America has been the poster boy for bad handling, we had 1276 new cases today, per population, that's the same as america having 88,000.
    We're on par with the UK with new cases and hospitalizations.

    I mentioned the Australian state of Victoria because, presumably, it had a longer lockdown because of its population density.

    As for the US, although it has had a large number of Covid deaths, Sweden has a proportionally higher (i.e. per 100,000) Covid death toll.


  • #5771
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,422 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Listening to a Shinner spokesperson on Radio 1, he is in favour of people sitting at home indefinitely on €350 PUP until a vaccine becomes available. The SF manifesto: borrow huge sums of money and bankrupt the country.


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  • #5772
    Strumms
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,917 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    rob316 wrote: »
    So the alternative is destroy the rest of society with these restrictions. There is only one exit strategy and that is ride it out until we have a vaccine early next year.

    The alternative is cutting your cloth to meet you measure..

    It’s until early next year we moderate behaviors, movements, personal goals, personal expectations... society hasn’t been destroyed it’s been delayed. Destroyed ? No , that’s you just being overly emotive but you it isn’t destroyed.

    The only path to destruction is if this virus runs wild again, It will if we are not careful.


  • #5773
    TheQuietBeatle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 614 ✭✭✭TheQuietBeatle


    theballz wrote: »
    I really hope for the mental health and well-being of people that gyms are allowed remain open (with tighter precautions.)

    Unlikely, they'll be the first closed.

    Hairdressers should stay open imo that really impacted people's mental health last time. I don't see data showing the harm from those yet.


  • #5774
    Jinglejangle69
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,152 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    Leo decided to go on Claire Byrne and make out he was smarter than everyone else and only he represented the real concerns of the electorate. His words that evening have aged badly. They were his words, it was all his own choice.

    He went on and said NHPET didn't give the government time or reason for jumping from level 2 to level 5.

    Perfectly legitimate rationale.

    Nothing has aged badly.

    We weren't in a position to jump straight into level 5 overnight 3 weeks ago.


  • #5775
    Ray Donovan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭Ray Donovan


    pjohnson wrote: »
    I wouldn't use those words but I think the way the Leaving Cert grading was handled did show how well she is qualified for the job.

    She stated during the week that schools staying open in Laois, Offaly and Kildare during their lockdown was a great example of what can be done with education during a localised lockdown.

    Laois and Offaly came out of lockdown on August 20th...!!! She’s pathetic.


  • #5776
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    theballz wrote: »
    I really hope for the mental health and well-being of people that gyms are allowed remain open (with tighter precautions.)
    I'd say they'll go and that's such a pity. So good to see so many people having an outlet.


  • #5777
    MelbourneMan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 245 ✭✭MelbourneMan


    Messi19 wrote: »
    They won't close the schools for fear of such a measure actually working. If they did then how could they justify opening back up again

    I can you refer you to my posts on this which will explain they mistake in your readin, and add that it is not that there would not be a curtailing of virus transmission if schools were closed, but that restriction are being applied, as they should be, according to the cost of that restriction. The cost of restricting education is considered very high.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=114968513&postcount=5797

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=114920285&postcount=656


  • #5778
    Cluedo Monopoly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,610 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Listening to a Shinner spokesperson on Radio 1, he is in favour of people sitting at home indefinitely on €350 PUP until a vaccine becomes available. The SF manifesto: borrow huge sums of money and bankrupt the country.

    Hmmmm, maybe you missed it but FF and FG just wrote the book on magical money trees with Budget 2020. Massive borrowings and a huge assumption that borrowing rates will stay low for decades to come as the national debt is refinanced. What a precedent to set.

    Fiscal space anyone??

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



  • #5779
    Ficheall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,038 ✭✭✭Ficheall


    s1ippy wrote: »
    So Simon, the minister for Higher education who last week said college is overrated,
    Unrelated, but link to where he said that? Interesting if true. Higher education in this country is very commercial.


  • #5780
    MarkY91
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,071 ✭✭✭MarkY91


    With the gyms closing once we move up a level, the real issue is that we don't have a great weather unlike the first lockdown where we all sunbathed and had a BBQ everyday after our workout in the park. We are in for a depressing few months.


  • #5781
    greenfield21
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,128 ✭✭✭greenfield21


    Covid zero is possible if they shut the border and the airports. Then close down for four weeks with non stop testing.


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  • #5782
    landofthetree
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,464 ✭✭✭landofthetree


    Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »
    Hmmmm, maybe you missed it but FF and FG just wrote the book on magical money trees with Budget 2020. Massive borrowings and a huge assumption that borrowing rates will stay low for decades to come as the national debt is refinanced. What a precedent to set.

    Fiscal space anyone??

    It was too little according to SF and the rest of the neo-Marxists in the Dail.


  • #5783
    Happydays2020
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭Happydays2020


    Ray Donovan wrote: »
    She stated during the week that schools staying open in Laois, Offaly and Kildare during their lockdown was a great example of what can be done with education during a localised lockdown.

    Laois and Offaly came out of lockdown on August 20th...!!! She’s pathetic.

    The schools were open, it was just the holiday period.


  • #5784
    Widdensushi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,583 ✭✭✭Widdensushi


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    Leo decided to go on Claire Byrne and make out he was smarter than everyone else and only he represented the real concerns of the electorate. His words that evening have aged badly. They were his words, it was all his own choice.

    NPHET handled the situation badly, putting the public in a panic at a weekend, surely they should be talking to the government first.


  • #5785
    Pretzill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,756 ✭✭✭Pretzill


    GooglePlus wrote: »
    We need a framework to bring about a roadmap to recovery and finally build back better.

    :)


  • #5786
    giveitholly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,285 ✭✭✭giveitholly


    greenfield21 wrote: »
    Covid zero is possible if they shut the border and the airports. Then close down for four weeks with non stop testing.

    No it's not because a lot of people work on either side of the border,what do you do after 4 weeks?


  • #5787
    niallo27
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,139 ✭✭✭✭niallo27


    Strumms wrote: »
    The alternative is cutting your cloth to meet you measure..

    It’s until early next year we moderate behaviors, movements, personal goals, personal expectations... society hasn’t been destroyed it’s been delayed. Destroyed ? No , that’s you just being overly emotive but you it isn’t destroyed.

    The only path to destruction is if this virus runs wild again, It will if we are not careful.

    I presume you have not been affected financially during all of this, many buisnesses have been destroyed and lives will be destroyed. Its easy preach when you are not the one that has to suffer the most.


  • #5788
    Happydays2020
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭Happydays2020


    Ficheall wrote: »
    Unrelated, but link to where he said that? Interesting if true. Higher education in this country is very commercial.

    He referred to a snobbish obsession with 3rd level. Not completely wrong, but the wrong way to message that.


  • #5789
    Messi19
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 750 ✭✭✭Messi19


    MelbourneMan wrote: »
    I can you refer you to my posts on this which will explain they mistake in your readin, and add that it is not that there would not be a curtailing of virus transmission if schools were closed, but that restriction are being applied, as they should be, according to the cost of that restriction. The cost of restricting education is considered very high.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=114968513&postcount=5797

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=114920285&postcount=656

    At what point does education become more important than the economy? Can education still be applied outside of the classroom? Yes, it's not ideal but it can be done. Can manufacturing survive outside of the factory? No it cannot.
    Education won't be an awful lot of use when there's sod all jobs left because we've nuked the economy


  • #5790
    Big Ears
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,040 ✭✭✭Big Ears


    is_that_so wrote: »
    I'd say they'll go and that's such a pity. So good to see so many people having an outlet.

    I spoke to a doctor working in public health during the week, who told me gyms have not been linked to the spread of the virus. That may have just been locally as opposed to on a national scale, but I have to assume if it's the case in at least one County, it's likely the same for many others.

    Despite that, and despite public health having that data, and them being of vital importance to people's physical and mental health, aswell as general feeling of some normality..... I'd be almost certain they'll be closed.


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  • #5791
    greenfield21
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,128 ✭✭✭greenfield21


    giveitholly wrote: »
    No it's not because a lot of people work on either side of the border,what do you do after 4 weeks?

    Yo don't reopen the border or the airports until a vaccine is found. Like NZ ...


This discussion has been closed.
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