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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Comments

  • #2372
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,713 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    https://metro.co.uk/2020/10/16/court-overturns-order-to-shut-bars-and-restaurants-in-berlin-at-11pm-13432566/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

    Ireland is really an outlier in Europe with these restrictions.

    Imagine bars in Berlin are not only open, they have just successfully fought an 11pm closing time.

    I didn’t even have to go past the first hit on a google search to show you are totally wrong.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.euronews.com/amp/2020/10/14/coronavirus-czechia-tightens-restrictions-after-recording-europe-s-highest-infection-rate


  • #2373
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,627 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    Jorge Limited Maze wrote: »
    I didn’t even have to go past the first hit on a google search to show you are totally wrong.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.euronews.com/amp/2020/10/14/coronavirus-czechia-tightens-restrictions-after-recording-europe-s-highest-infection-rate

    Localised lockdowns in one EU country

    Thats your argument?


  • #2374
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,567 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Totally agreed about nphet, no media exposure and everythimv can be relayed to the politicians, who can do what we voted them into do, but are proven totally inept at, decision making and leadership...


  • #2375
    hynesie08
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,271 ✭✭✭✭hynesie08


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    Localised lockdowns in one EU country

    Thats your argument?

    Credit where it's due, I wouldn't have pegged nox as acknowledging an independent catalonia....


  • #2376
    walus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,668 ✭✭✭walus


    Micky 32 wrote: »
    No it doesn’t . You keep asking something that you know damn well there’s no exact answer to.

    How there could be no answer to an expected or estimated time? Yet again I’m not asking for the actual date, I’m asking for what people expect that date to be. Is this cognitively too heavy to compute?

    ”Where’s the revolution? Come on, people you’re letting me down!”



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  • #2377
    facehugger99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,855 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    dubdaymo wrote: »
    Leo Varadkar will be fuming this morning. Having publically lambasted Holohan/NPHET for cruelly stressing out the Irish people late on a Sunday night a few weeks ago and having promised us on Claire Byrne that "this will not happen again" he has now been publically humiliated by a man hellbent on disrupting the country to the maximum. This can't go on.

    This repeat is clearly a revenge attack with total disregard for the mental health of the public. I am hoping that the Govt. will hold the sensible line again but I am hoping for more.

    A decision needs to be made. Whilst I have sympathy for Holohan for his family circumstances it is clear his mind has gone under the pressure and is unsuited to the job in hand. He should be removed from his position immediately and NPHET placed firmly back in their shell as nothing more than advisers with no access to the public. Every one of them should be banned from appearing on any kind of media. A criminal charge of causing Gross Mental Abuse to the Irish people should follow any breaches.

    You also have to remember that this Covid thing is the most exciting thing that's ever happened to the NPHET senior people. A chance, at last, to put all their little unproven theories, experiments and "modelling" to the test - all at our expense and with no loss of income to themselves while all this is going on. The perfect storm.

    We are witnessing a power struggle on who gets to run the country. Whatever about Martin, Varadkar and co., they have at least been democratically elected.

    Holohan and his 39 other cronies need to have the legs cut from under them and quickly. They should have never been allowed to become the face of this crisis.


  • #2378
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,567 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Facehugger you are right. But who let them call the shots, outrageously? Loud mouth varadkar etc and its been tjwt way from the get go !


  • #2379
    charlie14
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,609 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    patnor1011 wrote: »
    Yes unfortunately I can.
    It is called self-isolation. Or cocooning. If you feel vulnerable and cant live with a thought of being accidentally infected you should isolate yourself immediately.

    Distinct possibility is not acceptable reason to keep everyone under restrictions. Since it is already known that current vaccines will not offer protection against infection only a chance of reduced impact - which itself is not in any way guaranteed it is uterly ridiculous to wait for something which may not come at a cost we currently pay.


    So is that your proposal ? Self isolation for eternity.


    You asked me to name one vaccine that would guarantee you do not get infected. I told you to date there are three with a distinct possibility. I asked you to name me anything other than a vaccine that had even a remote chance of doing the same. You have not come up with anything.
    It would not even need to be a distinct possibility to be better than your no possibility.


    Your very quick to judge what these current vaccine will be capable off. Unless you have inside information that nobody else has, then as someone that has no other solution other than eternal isolation then maybe you should hold off on judgement. We will get to see shortly what they are capable of doing.
    That is what independent safety and efficacy reviews are all about.
    That it does what it says on the tin


  • #2380
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    Facehugger you are right. But who let them call the shots, outrageously? Loud mouth varadkar etc and its been tjwt way from the get go !

    It was the right thing to do last March to allow Nphet call the shots as none of us including Varadkar were equipped with any knowledge about the virus. Now the government is taking back control and that seems to annoy Holohan more than what is understandable. If ever a person should be sacked for insubordination he should be. Unfortunately civil servants have to commit murder to get sacked.


  • #2381
    323
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,141 ✭✭✭323


    charlie14 wrote: »
    Like boiling an egg. When it`s ready.

    When will there be a credible alternative to a vaccine ?


    There already is. The Swedish approach. Couple of months this relatively harmless virus will be gone as with seasonal flu's

    “Follow the trend lines, not the headlines,”



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  • #2382
    Fakediamond
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,055 ✭✭✭Fakediamond


    It is not nphet’s fault that the government didn’t prepare for the second wave by getting track and trace right or beefing up hospital resources to meet demand. NPHET are merely pointing out the dire consequences of the uncontrolled spread of the virus, government will ultimately decide whether they think the population can handle people dying at home because they can’t access medical help, as happened in Italy, Spain and New York.


  • #2383
    charlie14
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,609 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    patnor1011 wrote: »
    Thing is that there is no alternative. You are desperately clutching at something which does not offer any solution at least not in the next few years.

    Virus is out in the open. We can not make it go away no matter how much we wish for it to be true - zero covid or fully working covid vaccine are a pipe dream.

    Bill Gates rant?
    You mean that post where Bill Gates was proclaimed medical expert because he invested in the field for over 10 years? Yeah that would be funny if it was not tragic actually. But since it came from person who himself love to pose as vaccine development expert we can expect he proclaim himself as such based on his expertise at scraping internet for information which confirm his view.
    I only posted links which show his (Gates) conflict of interest where he try to pose as a savior of humanity to cover his profiteering from this situation.

    That thread is nothing but PR ad campaign for Oxford, Astra and Pfizer.


    You can stick your fingers in your ears and shout no no all you like. It does not negate the fact that there are vaccines in late stages of development, with some even at safety and efficacy review level by the FDA, EMA etc. for licensing.
    The Bill Gates rants as far as I am concerned are just noise to attempting to distract from that.


  • #2384
    greenfield21
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,126 ✭✭✭greenfield21


    What is the status with airports now?


  • #2385
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    greenfield21 wrote: »
    What is the status with airports now?

    Same as this time last year. Open.


  • #2386
    facehugger99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,855 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    Facehugger you are right. But who let them call the shots, outrageously? Loud mouth varadkar etc and its been tjwt way from the get go !

    I agree but this has become dangerous.

    Imagine being a small business owner and wondering should you order stock for the run up to Christmas?

    This posturing by Holohan and co. Is destroying any confidence in an economy already deeply ravaged.

    How much trade will go to UK online retailers if all our shops are closed for 6 weeks?

    It's fcuking outrageous what is going on. And all driven by a bunch of zero Covid zealots who've spent their working lives sucking on the public purse's tit.


  • #2387
    charlie14
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,609 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    patnor1011 wrote: »
    Your logic have one major flaw.
    To this date absolute majority of covid deaths were people who would most likely die contracting cold or even a flu. That is a fact.
    Therefore lessening covid effects vaccine isnt going to do much good for people who are at the biggest risk of death.
    Others who were infected mostly didnt even knew they had it. Small group of those who even developed any symptoms had it easy or mild.

    If flu had the same mortality rate to infection as Covid-10 you would have a point.
    As it does not, so your point is moot.


  • #2388
    Captain_Crash
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,005 ✭✭✭Captain_Crash


    facehugger99 wrote: »
    I agree but this has become dangerous.

    Imagine being a small business owner and wondering should you order stock for the run up to Christmas?

    This posturing by Holohan and co. Is destroying any confidence in an economy already deeply ravaged.

    How much trade will go to UK online retailers if all our shops are closed for 6 weeks?

    It's fcuking outrageous what is going on. And all driven by a bunch of zero Covid zealots who've spent their working lives sucking on the public purse's tit.

    It works both ways. I was going to buy a few items that I need yesterday, but needing them is dependent on level 5 not being implemented. Nothing expensive, about a hundred bucks or so..... but with the uncertainty around what’s happening i didn’t make the buy. How many others were put in the same position yesterday afternoon, and as a result how many shops are impacted by just the suggestion of it


  • #2389
    Captain_Crash
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,005 ✭✭✭Captain_Crash


    charlie14 wrote: »
    If flu had the same mortality rate to infection as Covid-10 you would have a point.
    As it does not, so your point is moot.

    If you take the total number of have died with it, and use the WHO’s best guess of the number of people globally who have likely had it, then it has the same mortality rate as the flu!


  • #2390
    MadYaker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,347 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    323 wrote: »
    There already is. The Swedish approach. Couple of months this relatively harmless virus will be gone as with seasonal flu's

    I wonder why the Swedish government are looking for 6 million doses of AstraZeneca’s vaccine so? :confused:


  • #2391
    charlie14
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,609 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    323 wrote: »
    There already is. The Swedish approach. Couple of months this relatively harmless virus will be gone as with seasonal flu's


    Sweden never looked on it as a relatively harmless seasonal flu in fairness.
    They looked on it much more seriously but you are partly right on the couple of months.

    That`s what Johan Giesecke the architect behind Sweden`s approach said in March. That within a month or two Sweden would have herd immunity.
    How`s that working out ?


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  • #2392
    323
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,141 ✭✭✭323


    patnor1011 wrote: »
    Yeah. One of the well informed posters proclaimed that Bill Gates is medical expert since he is investing in vaccines development for more than 10 years.

    One of the topics they do not like to discuss there is the most problematic one.
    No vaccine which is being in trials currently offer any immunity to covid. All of them are designed merely offer chance of lessening complications from infection.
    You can take any single one of them and still you will get infected when exposed.


    No one really wants to hear that though.


    Guess that's why Gates is already saying "The only way we'll get completely back to normal is by having, maybe not the first generation of vaccines, but eventually a vaccine that is super-effective,..."
    No agenda there!!

    And the Governments of the world, UN, WHO, G20 all bow down to this lunatic. Mindboggling.

    “Follow the trend lines, not the headlines,”



  • #2393
    MelbourneMan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 245 ✭✭MelbourneMan


    walus wrote: »
    What is your estimate then? I’m not interested in logic behind it. Just tell which month of 2021 or 2022 you expect the vaccine to be available to everyone who wishes to take it?
    I don’t know how much simpler I can make this question to be...

    Hello. I dont have an estimate. Its not my field of expertise, nor is it an answer that you are likely to find in this forum, hence my guidance to follow one of the external sites that provide summaries on that topic for consumption by the general public. There are of course also the medical journals who provide greater insight for those with the background and knowledge to benefit from them. As we all know, it is still a question subject to a great deal of uncertainty.


  • #2394
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,567 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    facehugger99 wrote: »
    I agree but this has become dangerous.

    Imagine being a small business owner and wondering should you order stock for the run up to Christmas?

    This posturing by Holohan and co. Is destroying any confidence in an economy already deeply ravaged.

    How much trade will go to UK online retailers if all our shops are closed for 6 weeks?

    It's fcuking outrageous what is going on. And all driven by a bunch of zero Covid zealots who've spent their working lives sucking on the public purse's tit.
    Yeah I am a small business owner, dont have stock related issues. But this situation has fcuked us proper. I dont mind getting into other areas of work, which is what I am doing. But I absolutely agree, what a farce the whole thing is. Open , close, waffle, speculate, kite fly etc. As we have said the media circus and the media are loving this , a once in a lifetime event and NPHET, they are loving it! These one trick ponies, need to be communicating to nobody, except government, behind closed doors...


  • #2395
    MelbourneMan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 245 ✭✭MelbourneMan


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    You know what I find more concerning than worrying about whether people will take a vaccine?

    The above bolded part. It's a recurring pattern in pretty much ALL online debate these days where a consensus has already been reached before a discussion is started. This childish immature nonsense of attacking and belittling/dismissing anyone who you disagree with.

    Hello. It is not really a question of belittle those who disagree. This discussion has happed already, and is conclusions are clear for the serious contributors to the field. The matter has been well studied, the data is robust, and the conclusions are not under serious question by those most expert on the topic. Online debate by the poorly informed can of course discuss the matter as it wishes. But it cannot complain when authoritative conclusions have been reached by others spending their careers studying and researching the topic conflict with the ill informed ones.


  • #2396
    dalyboy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,490 ✭✭✭dalyboy


    charlie14 wrote: »
    If flu had the same mortality rate to infection as Covid-10 you would have a point.
    As it does not, so your point is moot.

    . Influenza has MORE infection fatality rate than covid (2005-2015 estimates of influenza death rate of 0.4% . https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpub/article/PIIS2468-2667(19)30163-X/fulltext

    The latest WHO reports show fatality rate of 0.23% for covid https://www.who.int/bulletin/online_first/BLT.20.265892.pdf

    So it really begs the question ..... wtf are governments doing ??? Locking down countries is a mad house reaction. FACT


  • #2397
    Deub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,554 ✭✭✭Deub


    walus wrote: »
    How there could be no answer to an expected or estimated time? Yet again I’m not asking for the actual date, I’m asking for what people expect that date to be. Is this cognitively too heavy to compute?

    You complain about replies being rude to your posts and yet your last sentence is actually worse.

    If you are so interested in the exact month (but not exact date though....), ask companies working on the vaccine.


  • #2398
    PTH2009
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,399 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    Dr Tony now going to meet with Ministers about level 5


  • #2399
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,567 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Varadkar that joke, must really hate not being taoiseach. I expect not only due to the farce around the corona virus farce, exacerbated by decades of inaction and reform on the health service. housing crisis. That this wipes the smurk off his face in due course. A chance for a new way of doing things when they came to power. No... more of the same and that scum bag, screwing over his own generation financially, lashing out welfare and free housing for those who would likely never vote and certainly never vote FG. Screwing over those stupid enough to believe his lies about rewarding workers etc... :rolleyes:


  • #2400
    walus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,668 ✭✭✭walus


    Deub wrote: »
    You complain about replies being rude to your posts and yet your last sentence is actually worse.

    If you are so interested in the exact month (but not exact date though....), ask companies working on the vaccine.

    Yet another post that proves my point. I’m not interested what the governments say, or the companies or any other expert for that matter. I’m interested in so called ‘crowd wisdom’ estimation of this. I doubt that vaccine supporters don’t have any expectation as to the date when this vaccine becomes available to everyone. And so I would expect they would not have problems sharing that info. Why wouldn’t they, right?
    A very simple question it seems, yet one that creates so much fuss.

    ”Where’s the revolution? Come on, people you’re letting me down!”



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  • #2401
    AUDI20
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 385 ✭✭AUDI20


    walus wrote: »
    How there could be no answer to an expected or estimated time? Yet again I’m not asking for the actual date, I’m asking forwhat people expect that date to be. Is this cognitively too heavy to compute?
    Your question just don't make sense


This discussion has been closed.
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