Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

pjohnson

walus wrote: »

With charlie14 here not being able / not having balls to answer a simple: When do you expect to be getting your vaccine for cv19? Could someone here form the pro-vaccine crowd here answer that for me please?
I’m genuinely interested what your expectations are. I would like to know at what point in the future we can hope we will all go back to normal?

Admitting to being anti-vax is a new strategy.

Stormyteacup

MadYaker wrote: »

The purpose of a vaccine is to prepare your immune system so it recognises the virus and can eradicate it before it makes you ill or before it has propagated enough for you to spread it to someone else. So technically you are correct, in a way? Not sure what point you are trying to make though.

In some cases yes - flu vaccine has evidence of reducing transmission, but Polio vaccine has little impact on transmission rates.

Efforts for these first generation vaccines are concentrated on affording protection to the individual against the more serious symptoms of Covid, rather than transmission rate reduction (would be a bonus, and work being done on it concurrently).

Don’t get me wrong - still hoping for vaccine asap.

Jury is out re what way the media will swing when successful vaccine is rolled out. Need them to be behind it and elevate vaccine confidence in the public to help speed our way back to the almost-old normal, and to stop wheeling out bleeding-heart stories to feed the hand-wringers.

MelbourneMan

Stormyteacup wrote: »

Jury is out re what way the media will swing when successful vaccine is rolled out. Need them to be behind it and elevate vaccine confidence in the public to help speed our way back to the almost-old normal, and to stop wheeling out bleeding-heart stories to feed the hand-wringers.

Not really. All reputable media, and probably all media full stop, will promote it. Those opposing or resisting a vaccine are generally those of low intelligence, low education, or with a general gripe against authority (in general coming from the first two characteristics anyway), and as a result, with the right promotion, can be swayed without great difficulty, to accept it. Somewhere in the region of 75% vaccination will suffice to supress a virus of this transmissibility, so it is most unlikely to be a problem.

_Kaiser_

MelbourneMan wrote: »

Not really. All reputable media, and probably all media full stop, will promote it. Those opposing or resisting a vaccine are generally those of low intelligence, low education, or with a general gripe against authority (in general coming from the first two characteristics anyway), and as a result, with the right promotion, can be swayed without great difficulty, to accept it. Somewhere in the region of 75% vaccination will suffice to supress a virus of this transmissibility, so it is most unlikely to be a problem.

You know what I find more concerning than worrying about whether people will take a vaccine?

The above bolded part. It's a recurring pattern in pretty much ALL online debate these days where a consensus has already been reached before a discussion is started. This childish immature nonsense of attacking and belittling/dismissing anyone who you disagree with. It says more about you and those who do it than those you have issue with - we had a poster yesterday wishing that the virus would "wipe out" those he considered idiots FFS!

It also does nothing to strengthen your argument as if you cannot make it without resorting to such tactics then it can't be very strong to begin with.

I'm sick to death of it. Leaving aside the topic(s) at hand, it is creating a divisive "us vs them" mentality that is increasingly spilling into the real world and causing increasing societal issues as a result.

All this talk of regulation and restrictions - the best thing that could happen from all this would be that social media (and yes, including boards.ie) is regulated more heavily where this sort of thing is called out and users sanctioned or banned for it.

FintanMcluskey

MelbourneMan wrote: »

Not really. All reputable media, and probably all media full stop, will promote it. Those opposing or resisting a vaccine are generally those of low intelligence, low education, or with a general gripe against authority (in general coming from the first two characteristics anyway), and as a result, with the right promotion, can be swayed without great difficulty, to accept it. Somewhere in the region of 75% vaccination will suffice to supress a virus of this transmissibility, so it is most unlikely to be a problem.

That’s an interesting point.

Would you consider that description is accurate for the 50% of frontline health care workers who don’t take the flu vaccine?

Stormyteacup

MelbourneMan wrote: »

Not really. All reputable media, and probably all media full stop, will promote it. Those opposing or resisting a vaccine are generally those of low intelligence, low education, or with a general gripe against authority (in general coming from the first two characteristics anyway), and as a result, with the right promotion, can be swayed without great difficulty, to accept it. Somewhere in the region of 75% vaccination will suffice to supress a virus of this transmissibility, so it is most unlikely to be a problem.

Wish I shared your optimism. It’s not about questioning a vaccine in general.

It’s about this one specifically - and when it doesn’t perform as well as seems to be expected, we could be in for another media fear campaign.

If they are still reporting daily headlines on positive cases and hospital numbers, improvement in these numbers needs to be significant enough post-vaccine for Covid to make its timely relegation to a footnote on inner pages.

mohawk

charlie14 wrote: »

Tough luck so. Any vaccination programme will sensibly prioritise the most vulnerable and work down the line from there.

Some of the most vulnerable won’t be able to take a vaccine.

FintanMcluskey

mohawk wrote: »

Some of the most vulnerable won’t be able to take a vaccine.

A vaccine won’t prevent those most at risk of Covid from dying.


The lockdowns will have to continue I’d imagine when that’s discovered

bucketybuck

MadYaker wrote: »

No I don't. You know what else I don't have an opinion about? What we should do if the moon crashes into the earth, because that's about as likely as none of the current vaccines being cleared through all stages of trials.

patnor1011 wrote: »

He asked you about workable vaccine.

I actually didn't ask him anything, that question was made to a different poster, I don't know why he wanted to tell me his moon story.

bucketybuck

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

A vaccine won’t prevent those most at risk of Covid from dying.

It is one of the ironies of all the vaccine talk, lets be honest.

Just think about it. A vaccine that doesn't provide immunity to the most vulnerable, for a virus that only affects the most vulnerable.

After all, the vaccine isn't being made for the likes of me, I'm a healthy adult who isn't one bit worried about catching Covid in terms of my own health. So don't push to get a vaccine out there for the likes of me, I'll be fine, develop one for the people who actually need it.

Of course, that might take a little longer...

bucketybuck

Jorge Limited Maze wrote: »

Get a dictionary and look up isolate. What your son’s friend did is absolutely beyond belief, he is low life scum of the highest order and should get a criminal record for that. You talk about intellect to me and then defend this piece of dirt.

There you have it. A guy who went outside for a run in the countryside away from all other people, that guy is apparently low life scum of the highest order, should get a criminal record and is a piece of dirt.

Or so says the guy who ignores restrictions when it suits him, puts other people at risk drink driving and puts his own parents at risk visiting their household in breach of current regulations.

Stormyteacup

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

A vaccine won’t prevent those most at risk of Covid from dying.


The lockdowns will have to continue I’d imagine when that’s discovered

Either that or they’ll finally realise we could have been building protection for the vulnerable all along by allowing us go about our daily business with basic precautions in place.

Better understanding of a vaccine and its possible limitations, might finally hammer home the futility of harsh restrictions and lockdowns.

Messaging from media and government will dictate the state of our society in 2021 - not Covid

Inquitus

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Would you consider that description is accurate for the 50% of frontline health care workers who don’t take the flu vaccine?

The Flu vaccine is an outlier as far as vaccines go, there are 3 main strains of the Flu, Health professionals guess which strain to vaccinate against each year, each vaccine only works with 1 strain. This is why its only @50% effective. It's the only vaccine I have never taken, given I have only had Flu twice in my life, and given its low efficacy I probably won't take it until I am old and at much higher risk.

Micky 32

walus wrote: »

With charlie14 here not being able / not having balls to answer a simple: When do you expect to be getting your vaccine for cv19? Could someone here form the pro-vaccine crowd here answer that for me please?
I’m genuinely interested what your expectations are. I would like to know at what point in the future we can hope we will all go back to normal?

For an expert who thinks they know it all about vaccines i’m quite surprised how clueless you are regarding this question. There is no exact date timeline. Did you not know that? If the vaccine is succesful joe soap like yourself will have access to it somewhere between mid 2021 to late 2021. Hopefully that should stop your broken record posts about it.

walus

MelbourneMan wrote: »

Of course nobody knows with certainty. My answer refers to your hope/expectation question. But there is no simple answer. Only estimation with various degrees of probability are relevant. Furthermore, the are various stages that might casually be referred to as 'having a vaccine', from all levels from a single likely candidate in a lab, to one confirmed in clinical trials, to one in general production for distribution to the population, to various rollouts in different countries and in different categories of people, or to a level that reaches effective supression of the virus in a given geographical area, or globally. Without a more precise question, there cannot be a precise answer. The various authoritative sources, including the WHO, consider these points in their briefings and publications.

What is your estimate then? I’m not interested in logic behind it. Just tell which month of 2021 or 2022 you expect the vaccine to be available to everyone who wishes to take it?
I don’t know how much simpler I can make this question to be...

Jorge Limited Maze

Jorge Limited Maze wrote: »

What’s horrible about it, I am seriously toning down what I actually think so this comment is mild compared to what I would say to someone in person.

Do you not realise the seriousness of what this low life did?

I get the impression that you would say fück all to someone in person.

walus

Just been to the shops. Looks like another lockdown or a circuit breaker is on the cards. I hope that this time nphet availed of some expertise in this field and included a couple of electricians in their think-tank.

walus

Micky 32 wrote: »

For an expert who thinks they know it all about vaccines i’m quite surprised how clueless you are about this question. There is no exact date timeline. Did you not know that? If the vaccine is succesful joe soap like yourself will have access to it somewhere between mid 2021 to late 2021. Hopefully that should stop your broken record posts about it.

Thanks for your estimates. BTW no need to be rude. Gains you nothing, only makes you look bad.

Micky 32

walus wrote: »

Just been to the shops. Looks like another lockdown or a circuit breaker is on the cards. I hope that this time nphet availed of some expertise in this field and included a couple of electricians in their think-tank.

Was it from a reliable source or from your usually man on the street source?

Micky 32

walus wrote: »

Thanks for your estimates. BTW no need to be rude. Gains you nothing, only makes you look bad.

No it doesn’t . You keep asking something that you know damn well there’s no exact answer to.

FintanMcluskey

walus wrote: »

Just been to the shops. Looks like another lockdown or a circuit breaker is on the cards. I hope that this time nphet availed of some expertise in this field and included a couple of electricians in their think-tank.

Local hairdresser rang my mother this morning to move her appointment forward from next week to this evening.

Looks like businesses are preparing for the worst.

I think we need to be realistic and realise that whatever’s is implemented will be in place until June/July. The easiest thing is to implement these restrictions, we don’t have the leadership to relax them.

That and of course it will make no difference to the number of people in hospital this Winter which seems to be one reason for the added restrictions

_Kaiser_

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

You know what I find more concerning than worrying about whether people will take a vaccine?

The above bolded part..

He is talking about anti vaxers, if anything he is being kind to them with his comments - they are worse than he says.

bucketybuck wrote: »

.

Or so says the guy who ignores restrictions when it suits him, puts other people at risk drink driving and puts his own parents at risk visiting their household in breach of current regulations.

When are you going to acknowledge that fact I’ve provided you with a response to any regulation you are accusing me of breaking with verified exemptions from them. Are you incapable of reading it is it an issue with understanding?

Your trolling is getting tiresome at this stage.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

I get the impression that you would say fück all to someone in person.

You get the wrong impression.

JoeA3

Jorge Limited Maze wrote: »

You get the wrong impression.

Billy big balls who spends all day long on the internet when his mother is doing his washing.

I doubt it.

bucketybuck

Jorge Limited Maze wrote: »

any regulation you are accusing me of breaking with verified exemptions from them.

Unfortunately for the health of others those exemptions are all nothing more than Nox deciding that his needs are essential while other peoples are not.

FintanMcluskey

https://metro.co.uk/2020/10/16/court-overturns-order-to-shut-bars-and-restaurants-in-berlin-at-11pm-13432566/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Ireland is really an outlier in Europe with these restrictions.

Imagine bars in Berlin are not only open, they have just successfully fought an 11pm closing time.

stephenjmcd

Jorge Limited Maze wrote: »

Your trolling is getting tiresome at this stage.

I agree, you should take a day off it

Idbatterim

Do you guys think there will be serious backlash, when it becomes apparent to the masses globally, that its not just 2020, that is a write off, but 2021 most likely too, at least? Holidays gone, going out having spontaneous craic, all fcuked! And the more serious thimgs screwed aswell obviously...

Sorry, i should say the vaccine timeline isnt under governmemt control. But the approach of whacking all of us with this v just isolating the " vulnerable" is...

bucketybuck

bucketybuck wrote: »

Unfortunately for the health of others those exemptions are all nothing more than Nox deciding that his needs are essential while other peoples are not.

The government declared my industry essential
The government declared farming essential
The government declared helping elderly relatives and those cocooning essential
The government declared childcare essential.

Are you saying I decided these are essential?

dubdaymo

Leo Varadkar will be fuming this morning. Having publically lambasted Holohan/NPHET for cruelly stressing out the Irish people late on a Sunday night a few weeks ago and having promised us on Claire Byrne that "this will not happen again" he has now been publically humiliated by a man hellbent on disrupting the country to the maximum. This can't go on.

This repeat is clearly a revenge attack with total disregard for the mental health of the public. I am hoping that the Govt. will hold the sensible line again but I am hoping for more.

A decision needs to be made. Whilst I have sympathy for Holohan for his family circumstances it is clear his mind has gone under the pressure and is unsuited to the job in hand. He should be removed from his position immediately and NPHET placed firmly back in their shell as nothing more than advisers with no access to the public. Every one of them should be banned from appearing on any kind of media. A criminal charge of causing Gross Mental Abuse to the Irish people should follow any breaches.

You also have to remember that this Covid thing is the most exciting thing that's ever happened to the NPHET senior people. A chance, at last, to put all their little unproven theories, experiments and "modelling" to the test - all at our expense and with no loss of income to themselves while all this is going on. The perfect storm.