Covid 19 Part XXVI- 50,993 ROI (1,852 deaths) 28,040 NI (621 deaths) (19/10) Read OP

Boggles · 16-10-2020 07:06PM

alentejo wrote: »

Ireland has failed with its approach to Covid... What have we done wrong???

To help you answer your own question.

Which country in Europe has not failed?

Then research what they have or don't have and what they did.

Then you will get your answer.

votecounts · 16-10-2020 07:06PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

And this is why the all Ireland/ island approach just won't work
https://twitter.com/DarranMarshall/status/1317151841843544065?s=19

Some bigoted statement, yet he will have his apologists:(

Necro · 16-10-2020 07:06PM

hotmail.com wrote: »

Ireland will never do a curfew, we are thankfully not a police state.

Would a curfew really be that restrictive though when you think about it? Like unless you're working shifts, what other tangible reason would you have for being out and about after 10pm at night, as an eg.

Especially during a pandemic.

Necro · 16-10-2020 07:08PM

Boggles wrote: »

To help you answer your own question.

Which country in Europe has not failed?

Then research what they have or don't have and what they did.

Then you will get your answer.

Yeah I don't understand that line of thought, that Ireland have failed.

Nobody is dealing well with it in Europe, the only strategy that is working is that of Zero Covid which isn't an option here.

And even that has a lot of drawbacks.

Juwwi · 16-10-2020 07:09PM

Trouser Snake wrote: »

Arm the citizens, let the strong take out the weak.

Give everyone a can of pepper spray also .

Plumbthedepths · 16-10-2020 07:09PM

bk wrote: »

It use to be a pretty much daily sight seeing the army man checkpoints along with the Gardai in the 80's and 90's.

Also the Army transporting cash with the Gardai was very common back then.

So it would be unusual at all. In this case, the army could be unarmed or perhaps just a side arm, more to assist with numbers and resources rather then be threatening as such.

The army took part in those operations as a result of Republican activities. What you are suggesting is using the military to police the civilian population. They are not trained for such a scenario.

caveat emptor · 16-10-2020 07:10PM

Boggles wrote: »

The "Living with Covid" plan lasted 19 days.

Trust me by every single metric imaginably it's a bad thing.

This was our plan coming into winter.

speckle · 16-10-2020 07:11PM

mloc123 wrote: »

The LEAs that continue to go up obviously have more schools than those that have declined, I mean... There is no other possible reason right?

It couldn't be that the social and economic make up of those areas are people that are more likely to buy a bag of cans and all head over to a single house... Nope.

Most of those areas contain people working that cant work from home.. your shop assistant your teacher your clearner your low paid HCW etc

Hellrazer · 16-10-2020 07:11PM

Necro wrote: »

Would a curfew really be that restrictive though when you think about it? Like unless you're working shifts, what other tangible reason would you have for being out and about after 10pm at night, as an eg.

Especially during a pandemic.

Again it would come down to enforcement. No point in a curfew if its only going to be "advice" and unenforceable.

spookwoman · 16-10-2020 07:12PM

Necro · 16-10-2020 07:13PM

Hellrazer wrote: »

Again it would come down to enforcement. No point in a curfew if its only going to be "advice" and unenforceable.

Yeah that's pretty much the crux of the issue here. Though it seems to just be a common theme in democratic countries, which isn't a bad thing until you really, really need people to cop the fcuk on.

I Am The Law · 16-10-2020 07:14PM

hotmail.com wrote: »

Ireland will never do a curfew, we are thankfully not a police state.

Not yet.

Trouser Snake · 16-10-2020 07:15PM

I Am The Law wrote: »

Not yet.

Do you want the army to step in?

ixoy · 16-10-2020 07:16PM

Hellrazer wrote: »

Again it would come down to enforcement. No point in a curfew if its only going to be "advice" and unenforceable.

Which is why I'd be a bit doubtful that a Level 5 will make much of a difference to the spread. People's attitudes are different than they were in March and it's the people's buy in that you need - closing shops doesn't give you that. Maybe I'm too cynical.

bk · 16-10-2020 07:19PM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

The army took part in those operations as a result of Republican activities. What you are suggesting is using the military to police the civilian population. They are not trained for such a scenario.

Sure, because the situation at the time went beyond the capabilities and resources of the Gardai.

If we are in a situation where the Gardai don't have the manpower again, then it is only sensible to use the Army to support them as they have done for decades.

The army are absolutely trained in the "aid to civil powers" role, it has always been a major part of the Irish Army, between assisting the Gardai and their own Military Policing role as part of UN operations.

You might not want them out there, that is fine, but lets not make up rubbish and pretend that they aren't capable of doing it, and that they haven't been doing it for decades or that it is something unusual in Ireland.

GazzaL · 16-10-2020 07:20PM

I find it mind boggling that our Glourious Leaders' plans are to implement a failed lockdown strategy rather than deal with the basics. But of course, they will get paid handsomely regardless of what happens. Johnny and Mary losing their jobs, their businesses, their homes, their relationships, is of no concern.

Even more mind boggling is allowing schools to remain open while waging economic war on so many other professions where people have been working safely for months on end. And to top it off, while most people I know love working and would do anything to continue working despite the idiotic proposed lockdown, teachers are looking to go on strike if they have to work while people like Johnny and Mary are devastated by being forced out of work.

Necro · 16-10-2020 07:20PM

I Am The Law wrote: »

Not yet.

Apt username

Billy Ocean · 16-10-2020 07:21PM

https://twitter.com/lostexpectation/status/1317071556271550464?s=09

speckle · 16-10-2020 07:21PM

There is one area of potential people that it seems we are afraid to look at some HCWs not keeping to the rules outside of work. all areas must be looked at.

VinLieger · 16-10-2020 07:21PM

The simple fact is they should have given gardai real powers over the summer and introduced fines for not following the rules, that alone has deffinitely contributed to the current situation massively as government havent managed to get the same buy in from people as there was in March.

Simply put people arent going to just do what they are told anymore unless theres real consequences.

Happydays2020 · 16-10-2020 07:22PM

ixoy wrote: »

Which is why I'd be a bit doubtful that a Level 5 will make much of a difference to the spread. People's attitudes are different than they were in March and it's the people's buy in that you need - closing shops doesn't give you that. Maybe I'm too cynical.

You are not too cynical. I think NPHET two weeks ago made a massive error that has lost so many people. I think it has damaged them and I think it should be disbanded and a new permanent full time set up within D/Taoiseach should be put in place.

RTÉ are preaching to the converted on lock downs and many people are now just tuning out or screaming at the TV.

All in, you need to bring people with you. The people are not there because they are exhausted. Sensible people are talking about living vs existing.

dmakc · 16-10-2020 07:22PM

GazzaL wrote: »

I find it mind boggling that our Glourious Leaders' plans are to implement a failed lockdown strategy rather than deal with the basics

They haven't implemented this at all yet. I wouldn't follow the hysterics.

We have people here would love to see our army grab anyone 5km beyond their means.

caveat emptor · 16-10-2020 07:22PM

I think this sums it up. People won't go along with measures if they can plainly see there is no point to the measures.

https://twitter.com/IndependentSage/status/1317163269484838914?s=20

Happydays2020 · 16-10-2020 07:23PM

Billy Ocean wrote: »

https://twitter.com/lostexpectation/status/1317071556271550464?s=09

He should be sacked for that. Both of them.

Plumbthedepths · 16-10-2020 07:23PM

bk wrote: »

Sure, because the situation at the time went beyond the capabilities and resources of the Gardai.

If we are in a situation where the Gardai don't have the manpower again, then it is only sensible to use the Army to support them as they have done for decades.

The army are absolutely trained in the "aid to civil powers" role, it has always been a major part of the Irish Army, between assisting the Gardai and their own Military Policing role as part of UN operations.

You might not want them out there, that is fine, but lets not make up rubbish and pretend that they aren't capable of doing it, and that they haven't been doing it for decades or that it is something unusual in Ireland.

They are not trained to carry out civilian policing roles. So it is you making up stuff. Any soldier heading to the UN undergoes specific training in the UN school in the Curragh for policing roles they might undertake as part of their peace keeping duties.

brighterspark · 16-10-2020 07:25PM

RossNolan wrote: »

Not necessarily. If Level 3 achieved nothing Dublin would probably be leading the pack in the rate of new cases.

I think it is more likely that Level 3 worked in slowing the increase and given time would have turned the corner, but the explosion of cases in the counties bordering Dublin has helped push us back up. If the entire country was on Level 3 for several weeks I think we see stalling and then decline in new cases.

What has happened to the idea of giving restrictions 2 weeks to see impact - seems obvious that level 3 in Dublin alone would not have a serious impact given the commuters from surrounding counties who come into Dublin every day -- seems like mass hysteria from RTE is dictating policy in this country!

Spanish Eyes · 16-10-2020 07:26PM

AlphaDelta1 wrote: »

I wonder why curfew is never considered an option here?

Ive seen videos of gangs of youths drinking and huddled together outside in parks etc.. going around on social media this week. The parents obviously have no interest in helping out with this effort so why not bring the army in?

Why do we never seem to think outside the box and find solutions to obvious problem areas. We seem to be prepered to let businesses go to the wall instead of implementing a strategy that may work.

Lack of enforcement. Asking people is not the same as telling them and fining them etc. We are fkd because of these people who refuse to play ball really.

Billy Ocean · 16-10-2020 07:27PM

Happydays2020 wrote: »

He should be sacked for that. Both of them.

Dr Cervical Check should have been gone long ago due to non covid issues

The other seems to get some sort of weird thrill out of doom and gloom agenda's

Jucifer · 16-10-2020 07:30PM

Billy Ocean wrote: »

Dr Cervical Check should have been gone long ago due to non covid issues

The other seems to get some sort of weird thrill out of doom and gloom agenda's

Gets a weird thrill reporting and also adds bits of advice into his reports like he is on NPHET himself.

Navanboyo · 16-10-2020 07:31PM

Happydays2020 wrote: »

You are not too cynical. I think NPHET two weeks ago made a massive error that has lost so many people. I think it has damaged them and I think it should be disbanded and a new permanent full time set up within D/Taoiseach should be put in place.

RTÉ are preaching to the converted on lock downs and many people are now just tuning out or screaming at the TV.

All in, you need to bring people with you. The people are not there because they are exhausted. Sensible people are talking about living vs existing.

An alternative take though on the above is that people now see the concerns NPHET raised 3 weeks ago, as coming true and realise action is needed.

Whilst what happened two weks ago was a fiasco all around, a lot of people ive talked to in the last few days are of the opinion that they trust Tony more than politicians.

As regards NPHET, I am sure its not a perfect set up but i for one would prefer that an independent advisory body such as it, exists to give impartial non political advice.

Having been given the advice, politicians can then decide what to do and be judged on that action.

Covid 19 Part XXVI- 50,993 ROI (1,852 deaths) 28,040 NI (621 deaths) (19/10) Read OP

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