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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Comments

  • #1952
    3xh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 594 ✭✭✭3xh


    charlie14 wrote: »
    Income tax returns during lockdown strongly suggests that the economy was nowhere near the the level of doom and gloom some were claiming at the time.

    Every now and again, a poster here spouts something that says, ‘I haven’t a clue but an opinion’

    Income tax returns are largely similar because we have so many largely low paid jobs in the services economy. Those staff pay little income tax in normal circumstances but have been disproportionately affected with regards to the ability to work owing to the mandated lockdowns.

    Any of these so affected workers will likely have been placed on the PUP. So a greater cost to the State.

    The other workers in the state who would be paying a greater share of the income tax ordinarily are either in industries unaffected by the Covid lockdown, like nox, other IT workers and our medical staff.

    Those not in that group are generally private sector workers whose employer availed of the TWSS. This is ‘free’ money gifted by the state to these employers to pay the staff salaries. The staff will have to pay tax on this money in time. Further suppressing the national economy when those individual tax bills drop.

    I’m sorry, you are absolutely misunderstanding the difference between the GDP figures and the local economy/GNP. Officially, the GNP figures running currently are worse than initially forecast at the start of this lockdown. Saying, ‘yeah, but at least we have Apple here, it’s better than nothing’ is not the point.


  • #1953
    CalamariFritti
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,317 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »
    If we need 3.6 million cases the hospitals won't be able to handle people needing serious care. Icu might as well not exist. Even if we spread it out over a couple of years. Herd immunity in Ireland is like saying give me 200k deaths please.

    Sorry but really? Are we back to this again? 200,000 deaths? 4% of the population? Surely you dont actually believe that yourself. There is not even 4% being hospitalised. Currently we have 0.2% having to go to ICU.

    Whats the motivation to come out with something like that? Can you talk me through it?


  • #1954
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,060 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    its clearly obvious the whole covid thing was planned by them, just for the laugh, maybe!

    For profit & power i'd imagine. I'd expect good news late November.


  • #1955
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,599 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    CalamariFritti wrote: »
    Sorry but really? Are we back to this again? 200,000 deaths? Surely you dont actually believe that yourself.

    Whats the motivation to come out with something like that? Can you talk me through it?

    Sure 3.6 million cases with no hospitals accepting patients. Might be more than 200,000 deaths.


  • #1956
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,060 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    LessOutragePlz wrote: »
    The description gives you the answer that you're looking for.

    "However their health QR and body temperature were checked at the entrance"

    They're probably keeping a very good track on it and catching any infections early to stop to spread.

    They could also be lying about the situation which is also highly possible or they could also have a vaccine that they've told no one about.

    You covered most bases there, all of them possible:D

    I think that was a metal detector not a temperature check.


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  • #1957
    CalamariFritti
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,317 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »
    Sure 3.6 million cases with no hospitals accepting patients. Might be more than 200,000 deaths.

    Might also be total bull.

    Edit: You do realise that even Dr. Killeen only goes with 20k?


  • #1958
    PTH2009
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,387 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    i think us the people will need a bit of leeway coming up too Christmas in reagrds been able to go out and socialize etc. Important for mental health in which i sadly think is going to go on a major downfall

    But i cant see the Government/NPHET letting go of the restrictions cause its coming up too christmas, people will be flocking to the pubs/house parties etc

    IMO its been a hard year and if anyway possible let us life and enjoy


  • #1959
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,060 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »
    Sure 3.6 million cases with no hospitals accepting patients. Might be more than 200,000 deaths.

    That's crazy talk, it would mean it kills 1 in every 18 people that contact it, this isn't some killer zombie movie.


  • #1960
    topper75
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,942 ✭✭✭topper75


    CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »
    Sure 3.6 million cases with no hospitals accepting patients. Might be more than 200,000 deaths.

    No sorry. Doesn't add up.

    The median age of death seems to be 84. We only have x amount of people in that age bracket anyway. So even if Covid in a worst case scenario was an outright killer, there would be a limit of way south of that crazy 200k wild imaginary figure.

    And Covid remember is far from an outright killer. 4/5 of everyone infected in our nursing homes did not die. I mean how deadly is a disease that requires a test to know whether you have it! The mass graves thing was just hype. There are none in Stockholm.


  • #1961
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,599 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    That's crazy talk, it would mean it kills 1 in every 18 people that contact it, this isn't some killer zombie movie.

    If you go for herd immunity the hospitals would be overwhelmed and not treating people so it's certainly possible.


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  • #1962
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,056 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    For profit & power i'd imagine. I'd expect good news late November.

    na, id say its just for the craic, shur the video tells all really


  • #1963
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,396 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    LessOutragePlz wrote: »
    The description gives you the answer that you're looking for.
    "However their health QR and body temperature were checked at the entrance"
    They're probably keeping a very good track on it and catching any infections early to stop to spread.
    They could also be lying about the situation which is also highly possible or they could also have a vaccine that they've told no one about.

    ...they have the cure now, laughing at the rest of the world as we all hide under our beds and go out dressed like Surgeons and keep our economies in the toilet...


  • #1964
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,060 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »
    If you go for herd immunity the hospitals would be overwhelmed and not treating people so it's certainly possible.

    It's not possible, we can't get to 3.6 million cases, it's not matamatically possible with a population our size.
    Can you explain how your making the case for this killing 1 in 18 people. It has a strike rate no where near that.

    I'm going to use Belgium as an example as it has a very high deaths rate per 100k people of 89.98 one of the worst in the world.
    Now if we take our population of nearly 5 million were looking at roughly 4500 deaths. That's if we've learned no lessons and assuming care hasn't improved in 6mts.


  • #1965
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,599 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    It's not possible, we can't get to 3.6 million cases, it's not matamatically possible with a population our size.
    Can you explain how your making the case for this killing 1 in 18 people. It has a strike rate no where near that.

    I'm going to use Belgium as an example as it has a very high deaths rate per 100k people of 89.98 one of the worst in the world.
    Now if we take our population of nearly 5 million were looking at roughly 4500 deaths. That's if we've learned no lessons and assuming care hasn't improved in 6mts.

    That was the question though. Someone asked why we don't get 3.6 million cases to get herd immunity.

    If you do that the hospitals are gone. They can't cope. It's obvious so the strike rate will be insane.

    Someone asks a stupid question they get an answer.


  • #1966
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,060 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »
    That was the question though. Someone asked why we don't get 3.6 million cases to get herd immunity.

    If you do that the hospitals are gone. They can't cope. It's obvious so the strike rate will be insane.

    Someone asks a stupid question they get an answer.

    Gotcha, thought you'd flipped:)


  • #1967
    charlie14
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,606 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    That's crazy talk, it would mean it kills 1 in every 18 people that contact it, this isn't some killer zombie movie.


    Crazy talk ?

    In the one country that had very limited restrictions and let in run with little hindrance has a mortality rate to confirmed cases of 6%.
    That is 1 in every 16-17 who contacted it.


  • #1968
    charlie14
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,606 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »
    That was the question though. Someone asked why we don't get 3.6 million cases to get herd immunity.

    If you do that the hospitals are gone. They can't cope. It's obvious so the strike rate will be insane.

    Someone asks a stupid question they get an answer.


    Why people refuse to recognise and acknowledge the most simple facts is beyond me.
    When hospitals are over-run by admission the death rate goes up.
    They have only to look at Bergamo in Italy to see that and the reason why so many countries used lockdown to prevent the same happening to their health services.


  • #1969
    charlie14
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,606 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    CalamariFritti wrote: »
    Might also be total bull.


    Might also be that their vaccine actually works.
    The United Arab Emirates approved it for emergency use a month ago.


  • #1970
    CalamariFritti
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,317 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    charlie14 wrote: »
    Crazy talk ?

    In the one country that had very limited restrictions and let in run with little hindrance has a mortality rate to confirmed cases of 6%.
    That is 1 in every 16-17 who contacted it.
    charlie14 wrote: »
    Might also be that their vaccine actually works.
    The United Arab Emirates approved it for emergency use a month ago.

    I think we're not on the same thread.

    But I'm curious, I'd be delighted of course. Which country with 6% and which vaccine is this?


  • #1971
    charlie14
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,606 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    CalamariFritti wrote: »
    I think we're not on the same thread.

    But I'm curious, I'd be delighted of course. Which country with 6% and which vaccine is this?


    The vaccine was in relation to China and the UAE.
    The country with 6% mortality rate to confirmed cases is Sweden.
    There are also others with similar or greater mortality rates to confirmed cases.
    Belgium 5.7%, Bolivia 6.0%, U.K. 6.6% Mexico 10.2%


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  • #1972
    Skyfloater
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 424 ✭✭Skyfloater


    charlie14 wrote: »
    The vaccine was in relation to China and the UAE.
    The country with 6% mortality rate to confirmed cases is Sweden.
    There are also others with similar or greater mortality rates to confirmed cases.
    Belgium 5.7%, Bolivia 6.0%, U.K. 6.6% Mexico 10.2%

    Something not adding up here, we have the HSE in today's IT saying that 80% of positives have little or no symptoms.


  • #1973
    facehugger99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,854 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    Wonder when we're going to see this lagging surge in deaths that the hysteria-merchants have been predicting for the last 8 weeks?


  • #1974
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,056 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    facehugger99 wrote:
    Wonder when we're going to see this lagging surge in deaths that the hysteria-merchants have been predicting for the last 8 weeks?

    Its more the fear of our health care system reaching capacity, which is currently occuring


  • #1975
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,060 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    charlie14 wrote: »
    Crazy talk ?

    In the one country that had very limited restrictions and let in run with little hindrance has a mortality rate to confirmed cases of 6%.
    That is 1 in every 16-17 who contacted it.

    Run those numbers through our population and we were over half way to where Sweden is now in March/April.
    With the little amount of testing Sweden did it's very hard to estimate their actual cases vs deaths.

    It doesn't kill 1 in every 16/17 people who catch it. We'd be looking at 75+ deaths out of the cases today if that was the case, probably way more as how many cases did we miss today.

    Sweden, UK, Ireland are all guilty of the same thing and that's the complete bags we made of the nursing homes and we're doing it again.


  • #1976
    CalamariFritti
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,317 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    charlie14 wrote: »
    The vaccine was in relation to China and the UAE.
    The country with 6% mortality rate to confirmed cases is Sweden.
    There are also others with similar or greater mortality rates to confirmed cases.
    Belgium 5.7%, Bolivia 6.0%, U.K. 6.6% Mexico 10.2%

    Thank you.

    However, we know those case fatality rates dont really mean much as countries vary a lot on testing. IFR matters. WHO themselves think 750m infected. 1M dead. Some people think thats a fake number so lets go with 2m. You do the maths after that.


  • #1977
    darconio
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 935 ✭✭✭darconio


    charlie14 wrote: »
    Crazy talk ?

    In the one country that had very limited restrictions and let in run with little hindrance has a mortality rate to confirmed cases of 6%.


    In Italy they had 10 weeks of full force lockdown, look where they are now.
    Also their mortality rate to confirmed case as of today is 9.9%

    charlie14 wrote: »
    The country with 6% mortality rate to confirmed cases is Sweden.
    There are also others with similar or greater mortality rates to confirmed cases.
    Belgium 5.7%, Bolivia 6.0%, U.K. 6.6% Mexico 10.2%


    Ireland as of today as 4.1% so not that far from the above Swedish percentage to be honest, with the difference that over there they are allowed to live their life.


  • #1978
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,060 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    Its more the fear of our health care system reaching capacity, which is currently occuring

    Look at last year and we got through it, we are no where near last Octobers numbers https://www.newstalk.com/news/11400-people-trolleys-october-hospital-overcrowding-920041
    Last years numbers were terrible, pandemic or no pandemic we should have been prepared to not have that happen ever again.

    Hard to believe we've 3 former ministers of health in the current Government. 6mts and a lockdown, Testing & Tracing isn't for purpose.


  • #1979
    Zebra3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,109 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    facehugger99 wrote: »
    Wonder when we're going to see this lagging surge in deaths that the hysteria-merchants have been predicting for the last 8 weeks?

    "Only a few weeks away now...."


  • #1980
    josip
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,782 ✭✭✭✭josip


    darconio wrote: »
    Ireland as of today as 4.1% so not that far from the above Swedish percentage to be honest, with the difference that over there they are allowed to live their life.


    Yes, but Sweden's normal level of socialising and interacting with other people is similar to ours during Level 3.


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  • #1981
    snowcat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,218 ✭✭✭snowcat


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    Its more the fear of our health care system reaching capacity, which is currently occuring

    Our health care system was overrun years ago. We dont have beds for our regular sick whatever about Covid. The question is what was done in the last 6 months by nphet/hse to increase capacity. Nothing..we spent billions on PPE and that was it. We are 95% full on ICU capacity every year for the last 5 years at this time of year. There is nothing strange here.


This discussion has been closed.
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