Schools closed until February? (part 3)

meeeeh · 14-10-2020 11:26AM

Well to me it would mean putting 18 people on 300 or whatever it is per week again. In the first lockdown we were able to supplement their wages a bit but the longer it goes on the more unsustainable that will be. Most here won't need to tell to someone sorry there is no job. Most of you won't be contacting social welfare to see what you are entitled to. So spare me about how easy it is to be level 5 and pontificating what sacrifices should everyone be making.

khalessi · 14-10-2020 11:27AM

HerrKuehn wrote: »

Well if there was to be another shutdown, it would be those who work in the private sector who would be impacted by it. There was no furloughing in the public sector. I would say most/all services provided by the state are sub par, at least compared to other european countries. If you work in the public sector you have less to complain about as you are part of the system IMO.

And there we have it, the most succesful policy of any government. Around 2010 the government started a them and us propaganda and it split private and public workers.

My attitude to that is you made your choice deal with it. It wasnt always this but I am sick of private workers complainign for their choices. THey had the same opportunities I did. Pick a job and do what you need to get it, whether it be further education apprenticeship etc.

I have worked public and private and both have sub par workers. Also both public and private have advantages and disadvatages. People make their choices and row with it.

The issue now is what should be done about schools. They are part of the problem and it is the elephant in the room as the government wont acknowledge it as it will put a tarnish on them reopening schools en masse.

I think we should lockdown for 2 weeks only at the same time as NI and hopefully it will decrease numbers around the border and in other areas around Ireland.

scrubs33 · 14-10-2020 11:30AM

khalessi wrote: »

And there we have it, the most succesful policy of any government. Around 2010 the government started a them and us propaganda and it split private and public workers.

My attitude to that is you made your choice deal with it. It wasnt always this but I am sick of private workers complainign for their choices. THey had the same opportunities I did. Pick a job and do what you need to get it, whether it be further education apprenticeship etc.

I have worked public and private and both have sub par workers. Also both public and private have advantages and disadvatages. People make their choices and row with it.

The issue now is what should be done about schools. They are part of the problem and it is the elephant in the room as the government wont acknowledge it as it will put a tarnish on them reopening schools en masse.

I think we should lockdown for 2 weeks only at the same time as NI and hopefully it will decrease numbers around the border and in other areas around Ireland.

Fancy ideas like a joint and co-ordinated approach will never work;)

khalessi · 14-10-2020 11:32AM

scrubs33 wrote: »

Fancy ideas like a joint and co-ordinated approach will never work;)

Eammon Ryan said as much this morning on the radio and said it was because of Brexit. We have cross boarder cooperation, people coming from Belfast to Dublin for surgery etc. I dont see why they could not still allow hospital visits and closse boarder for the rest.

Mrsmum · 14-10-2020 11:35AM

meeeeh wrote: »

Well to me it would mean putting 18 people on 300 or whatever it is per week again. In the first lockdown we were able to supplement their wages a bit but the longer it goes on the more unsustainable that will be. Most here won't need to tell to someone sorry there is no job. Most of you won't be contacting social welfare to see what you are entitled to. So spare me about how easy it is to be level 5 and pontificating what sacrifices should everyone be making.

That sounds awful letting staff go and worrying will your business and therefore your livelihood survive.

Lillyfae · 14-10-2020 11:35AM

khalessi wrote: »

My attitude to that is you made your choice deal with it. It wasnt always this but I am sick of private workers complaining for their choices. THey had the same opportunities I did. Pick a job and do what you need to get it, whether it be further education apprenticeship etc.

I doubt you see the irony in your post, but this is what the teachers on this thread (not majorly in the outside world it must be said) are doing. If it's pointed out, it's teacher-bashing. Becoming a teacher was your choice. The game has certainly changed, but it's changed for everyone.

meeeeh · 14-10-2020 11:36AM

scrubs33 wrote: »

Fancy ideas like a joint and co-ordinated approach will never work;)

No they won't. As far as I know NI doesn't have money for the same supports we have here. We also don't have the same health care, theirs might be a bit better.

I didn't see Austria discussing coordinated approach with Germany. Or Italy with France. Some joint decisions cam be made but every country tailors their decisions to their circumstances no matter how open borders are.

lulublue22 · 14-10-2020 11:44AM

meeeeh wrote: »

No they won't. As far as I know NI doesn't have money for the same supports we have here. We also don't have the same health care, theirs might be a bit better.

I didn't see Austria discussing coordinated approach with Germany. Or Italy with France. Some joint decisions cam be made but every country tailors their decisions to their circumstances no matter how open borders are.

Austria / Germany , Italy / France et al is a total red herring - the Irish experience is vastly different. A substantial number in NI consider themselves Irish - there is a long troubled history there one of the reasons we won’t have a hard border , one of the reasons we need an all Ireland approach.

meeeeh · 14-10-2020 11:45AM

Mrsmum wrote: »

That sounds awful letting staff go and worrying will your business and therefore your livelihood survive.

We will be ok. In comparison to going through previous recession this is less stressful. However I do feel for small businesses in service or entertainment industry. They don't know they will still have business at the other side of this and their employees don't know if they will still have a job. Finding money for rent, mortgage and other fixed outgoings isn't easy on 300 per week. I don't know though that I would gloat that it's their own fault because they don't work in public sector.

HerrKuehn · 14-10-2020 11:46AM

khalessi wrote: »

And there we have it, the most succesful policy of any government. Around 2010 the government started a them and us propaganda and it split private and public workers.

My attitude to that is you made your choice deal with it. It wasnt always this but I am sick of private workers complainign for their choices. THey had the same opportunities I did. Pick a job and do what you need to get it, whether it be further education apprenticeship etc.

I have worked public and private and both have sub par workers. Also both public and private have advantages and disadvatages. People make their choices and row with it.

The issue now is what should be done about schools. They are part of the problem and it is the elephant in the room as the government wont acknowledge it as it will put a tarnish on them reopening schools en masse.

I think we should lockdown for 2 weeks only at the same time as NI and hopefully it will decrease numbers around the border and in other areas around Ireland.

It started a long time before that. The most divisive time was actually during the bubble and the benchmarking period from my point of view. Remember the "Benchmarking ATM that keeps paying out"? I am happy with my own situation. I think it is fair to complain about the "services" provided by the state, given the quality of them. There is often the attitude from public sector workers that you should be happy to be receiving any sort of service at all! Of course people should complain about.

I am in a lucky position where my income has not been impacted at all, I have my own house and plenty of space. I can put up with this almost indefinitely, the only thing I miss is the socialising. The thing is, most people don't have this. I think it would be easy for me or others to say, lets lock down, as it has no impact on me. It has a much bigger effect on others, maybe they are sharing a house, or they lost their job etc.

You, Khalessi, have been one of the most active posters on this since March when you were unbelievably working from 3am. You have a choice as well, you decided to work in a relatively low paid profession (not bad for what it is though), which involves interacting with people and makes WFH impossible. You could always take a bit of your own medicine and upskill?

lulublue22 · 14-10-2020 12:02PM

I love my job interaction with children , hours pay and holidays - I chose it because it suited my personality , interests and life style - I don’t like those whose sole experience of education is based on their attendance at school pontificating about pay, conditions and how easy hard it is or how effective the entire profession is or is not. I don’t pontificate on any other profession as I don’t work in that profession and have no idea what the intricate details of that job may or may not be. Every sector has pros and cons including the private sector.

JimmyVik · 14-10-2020 12:08PM

AS a teacher friend of mine said to mne one day when I was jibeing them about their holidays.
"We all got the sam CAO form"

lulublue22 · 14-10-2020 12:14PM

JimmyVik wrote: »

AS a teacher friend of mine said to mne one day when I was jibeing them about their holidays.
"We all got the sam CAO form"

That’s what I don’t get - if it’s soo cushy why not do it as opposed to the absolute vitriol a number of posters come out with

wirelessdude01 · 14-10-2020 12:15PM

JimmyVik wrote: »

AS a teacher friend of mine said to mne one day when I was jibeing them about their holidays.
"We all got the sam CAO form"

And some of us didn't put down teaching or indeed had any inclination towards it at that time.

As someone who had a good career at a massive MN before I retrained I can confirm there are some awful useless and bone lazy people in both sectors.

People still falling for the divide and conquer strategy, even after all this time.

Everyone has a choice to make. That choice is always there.

meeeeh · 14-10-2020 12:27PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

And some of us didn't put down teaching or indeed had any inclination towards it at that time.

As someone who had a good career at a massive MN before I retrained I can confirm there are some awful useless and bone lazy people in both sectors.

People still falling for the divide and conquer strategy, even after all this time.

Everyone has a choice to make. That choice is always there.

I'm sure that any sound technician or restaurateur thought they are making a valid career decision. It is nice to work in a job you like. I would never become a nurse or a teacher or anything like that. Not because I couldn't but because I don't want to. I'm no good dealing with kids and I'm even worse dealing with sick people. It has nothing to do with pay, holidays or work conditions. At the same time I like the freedom of the job I have. It is unfair to imply that those who decided to work in businesses affected by Covid should somehow see it coming and pick different profession.

And telling people who are rightly afraid of another lockdown that they should pick a better career years ago lacks of any compassion or understanding.

BTW I never said teachers gave it easy but one thing that I do maintain is that teacher unions are among most whinging and inflexible unions around. Coming from private sector it is inflexible nature public sector that frustrates me not the holidays or pay.

Lillyfae · 14-10-2020 12:29PM

lulublue22 wrote: »

That’s what I don’t get - if it’s soo cushy why not do it as opposed to the absolute vitriol a number of posters come out with

Because there are more reasons than holidays to choose a career.

lulublue22 · 14-10-2020 12:36PM

meeeeh wrote: »

I'm sure that any sound technician or restaurateur thought they are making a valid career decision. It is nice to work in a job you like. I would never become a nurse or a teacher or anything like that. Not because I couldn't but because I don't want to. I'm no good dealing with kids and I'm even worse dealing with sick people. It has nothing to do with pay, holidays or work conditions. At the same time I like the freedom of the job I have. It is unfair to imply that those who decided to work in businesses affected by Covid should somehow see it coming and pick different profession.

And telling people who are rightly afraid of another lockdown that they should pick a better career years ago lacks of any compassion or understanding.

That’s not what was said though - I think life is too short for anyone to do a job they hate - every job has its positives and negatives. Teaching would be an absolute nightmare if you didn’t have a gra for it. Post was in response to a snide comment on pay - low pay but adequate for the job I suppose - by a previous poster

khalessi · 14-10-2020 12:52PM

Lillyfae wrote: »

I doubt you see the irony in your post, but this is what the teachers on this thread (not majorly in the outside world it must be said) are doing. If it's pointed out, it's teacher-bashing. Becoming a teacher was your choice. The game has certainly changed, but it's changed for everyone.

THank you for the laugh. I find your posts hilarious

khalessi · 14-10-2020 12:58PM

meeeeh wrote: »

And telling people who are rightly afraid of another lockdown that they should pick a better career years ago lacks of any compassion or understanding.

.

Totally agree with this. It is also lacking in compassion or understanding when people say about teaching,"If you work in the public sector you have less to complain about as you are part of the system IMO."

It is also sad when people are commenting not complaining about the lack of transparency in educaiton and others say silly things like, "but this is what the teachers on this thread (not majorly in the outside world it must be said) are doing". Those posts shows a lack of comprehension and ignorance.

MelbourneMan · 14-10-2020 01:12PM

irishblessing wrote: »

It's everyone collectively rowing in the same direction that gets us there, and with government supports in place.

I think it is worth correcting this misunderstanding. While widespread, the need for all to be complying with restrictions has no scientific basis. Non compliance as such, does not spoil the reduced transmission actions taken by others. The fight against the spread of the virus is won or lost on a macro scale, with the concept that all should take the same precautions comes from an emotional sense of equality or burden sharing. The sentiment is understandable. But not really relevant to how we chose to implement restriction guidelines on the national level. I hopes this helps.

Lillyfae · 14-10-2020 01:13PM

khalessi wrote: »

Totally agree with this. It is also lacking in compassion or understanding when people say about teaching,"If you work in the public sector you have less to complain about as you are part of the system IMO."

It is also sad when people are commenting not complaining about the lack of transparency in educaiton and others say silly things like, "but this is what the teachers on this thread (not majorly in the outside world it must be said) are doing".

There is a lack of acceptance that a lot of your colleagues don't support your views and are just rolling up their sleeves and getting on with it- this is hard work and everyone has a responsibility to do what they're supposed to be doing, in work and their personal lives. I don't dispute that the Department of Education have fallen well short of the mark but there are plenty who would ignore any of the guidelines anyway- like your 2 colleagues who carpool, are they still doing that btw?

Boards of Management and principals have to do the best they can within the context of their school environment- it would be impossible for the Department of Education to go into every single school to fix every issue, that's why someone is put in charge in the first place. If you're not happy with how things are being done in your school then start asking the principal questions- I would be interested in the response.

khalessi wrote: »

Those posts shows a lack of comprehension and ignorance.

I think only posting evidence that aligns with one's own opinion, and ignoring any evidence contrary to that is pretty ignorant.

irishblessing · 14-10-2020 01:16PM

Please, everyone, stop bickering about each other's jobs and choices. We should be turning our annoyance and anger towards the government who have handled this so f-g appallingly. We need teachers in their jobs, and we need them to be safe as we do our kids and our families that this virus may be brought home to.

There are solutions for hybrid remote learning. We need more teachers and equipment and therefore resource funding needs to happen like yesterday. This is something the government could choose to do but with each passing they day they just sit on their hands and push their agenda's.

So it's falling on the schools to sort. Shocker.

Rotating in-person classes in groups then work at home after the lessons, utilising an online platform to return work and perhaps supplement lessons. My kids already have some online work and have been practising using Seesaw for when the inevitable happens.

We could do fully online teaching via either live lessons, recorded lessons or both. Recorded lessons great for playing at any time to work around family needs at home. Whichever method a family chooses the work completed will be the same. SN's children still in FT with their SEN teacher. My friends kids in the US have a mix of the above.

irishblessing · 14-10-2020 01:18PM

MelbourneMan wrote: »

I think it is worth correcting this misunderstanding. While widespread, the need for all to be complying with restrictions has no scientific basis. Non compliance as such, does not spoil the reduced transmission actions taken by others. The fight against the spread of the virus is won or lost on a macro scale, with the concept that all should take the same precautions comes from an emotional sense of equality or burden sharing. The sentiment is understandable. But not really relevant to how we chose to implement restriction guidelines on the national level. I hopes this helps.

Oh good jaysus. Stop nitpicking. It's obviously not ever going to be every single person. My comment was in response to telling someone to choose to go on a lockdown themselves assumedly on a one man mission to impact the numbers. Ridiculous. Clear up the illogical-ness and un-scientific position of that why don't you. I hope this helps. :rolleyes:

HerrKuehn · 14-10-2020 01:20PM

khalessi wrote: »

Totally agree with this. It is also lacking in compassion or understanding when people say about teaching,"If you work in the public sector you have less to complain about as you are part of the system IMO."

It is also sad when people are commenting not complaining about the lack of transparency in educaiton and others say silly things like, "but this is what the teachers on this thread (not majorly in the outside world it must be said) are doing". Those posts shows a lack of comprehension and ignorance.

I was responding in particular to this:
"My attitude to that is you made your choice deal with it. It wasnt always this but I am sick of private workers complainign for their choices. THey had the same opportunities I did. Pick a job and do what you need to get it, whether it be further education apprenticeship etc."

So, what is good for the goose is good for the gander. You made your choice to work as a teacher and part of that is that remote working is difficult in viral pandemic. You had the same information available as the person opening a restaurant.

In terms of my comments about the salary, I don't think teachers are paid very highly. They are paid adequately for what they do IMO. It is a skilled profession, but not a highly skilled profession, and is paid accordingly. I would regard high skilled as working on things which haven't been done before, research, design etc.

khalessi · 14-10-2020 01:23PM

HerrKuehn wrote: »

I was responding in particular to this:
"My attitude to that is you made your choice deal with it. It wasnt always this but I am sick of private workers complainign for their choices. THey had the same opportunities I did. Pick a job and do what you need to get it, whether it be further education apprenticeship etc."

So, what is good for the goose is good for the gander. You made your choice to work as a teacher and part of that is that remote working is difficult in viral pandemic. You had the same information available as the person opening a restaurant.

In terms of my comments about the salary, I don't think teachers are paid very highly. They are paid adequately for what they do IMO. It is a skilled profession, but not a highly skilled profession, and is paid accordingly. I would regard high skilled as working on things which haven't been done before, research, design etc.

Actually I have more, as I can see the lack of transparency comparing one of my former careers in Healthcare with teaching and it is shocking.

frank8211 · 14-10-2020 01:29PM

https://westernpeople.ie/2020/10/14/covid-19-case-at-another-mayo-secondary-school-confirmed/#.X4bu4uaSlPY

Mayo school

meeeeh · 14-10-2020 01:31PM

irishblessing wrote: »

Please, everyone, stop bickering about each other's jobs and choices. We should be turning our annoyance and anger towards the government who have handled this so f-g appallingly. We need teachers in their jobs, and we need them to be safe as we do our kids and our families that this virus may be brought home to.

There are solutions for hybrid remote learning. We need more teachers and equipment and therefore resource funding needs to happen like yesterday. This is something the government could choose to do but with each passing they day they just sit on their hands and push their agenda's.

So it's falling on the schools to sort. Shocker.

Rotating in-person classes in groups then work at home after the lessons, utilising an online platform to return work and perhaps supplement lessons. My kids already have some online work and have been practising using Seesaw for when the inevitable happens.

We could do fully online teaching via either live lessons, recorded lessons or both. Recorded lessons great for playing at any time to work around family needs at home. Whichever method a family chooses the work completed will be the same. SN's children still in FT with their SEN teacher. My friends kids in the US have a mix of the above.

Well I didn't think Irish government dealt with it particularly badly. They dealt with schools badly in spring and ok in autumn. Testing was a mess in spring and turnover is still not good enough. However a lot of things were done well, especially how businesses and individuals were helped.

You go on about hybrid learning like it's something that has to be done and should be done. I disagree, I don't think there is need for it at the moment. If there is need to close schools as part of extreme lockdown then they should be closed. However some sort of hybrid mess is completely unnecessary and frankly US is not exactly the country whose approach to education I would want us to copy.

irishblessing · 14-10-2020 01:36PM

meeeeh wrote: »

Well I didn't think Irish government dealt with it particularly badly. They dealt with schools badly in spring and ok in autumn. Testing was a mess in spring and turnover is still not good enough. However a lot of things were done well, especially how businesses and individuals were helped.

You go on about hybrid learning like it's something that has to be done and should be done. I disagree, I don't think there is need for it at the moment. If there is need to close schools as part of extreme lockdown then they should be closed. However some sort of hybrid mess is completely unnecessary and frankly US is not exactly the country whose approach to education I would want us to copy.

You go on as if hybrid learning isn't needed at the moment. It is. As we type there are loads of teachers, students, classes and schools quarantining/out sick. Education stops for them unless the school undertakes remote learning. Which many are and now have been directed to start implementing by the DES. Hello!?!

There are at risk students and families who have either had to make the heartbreaking choice to pull their kids from schools or are sick with stress and worry over sending them in every day and rolling that dice. This has been said here over and over again. Why are you so determined to ignore this.

Also, just to side note the US has a far superior education system than us. And before you bleat on about the ignorance we've got plenty of our own too.

rob316 · 14-10-2020 01:42PM

Very strong email today from our sons school not to post any information related to covid in the school on public social media pages. Impossible to get substitute staff as they are walking away as soon as they learn there is a class closure in the school
Strongly agree with it.

meeeeh · 14-10-2020 01:45PM

irishblessing wrote: »

Also, just to side note the US has a far superior education system than us. And before you bleat on about the ignorance we've got plenty of our own too.

Well despite their far superior educational system their 15 year olds perform worse in maths and reading than Irish kids. (They are better in science.) Maybe it's far superior for those who can pay.

Schools closed until February? (part 3)

Comments