Covid 19 Part XXV-44,159 ROI (1,830 deaths) 21,898 NI (598 deaths) (13/10) Read OP

Tredstone · 11-10-2020 08:14PM

Surely the idea with ICU is that available beds are full and then extra capacity is added at short notice.

spookwoman · 11-10-2020 08:14PM

Thierry12 wrote: »

Its being rationed because we didn't order enough and are now short of flu vaccines

Our supply chain specialists were surprised by the demand lol

Who would have thought a flu vaccine for an ilness with similar symptoms to a virus that's stopped the world would have been sought after

Where does it say that not enough was ordered? I can find where there is a delay but nothing about not enough ordered

marno21 · 11-10-2020 08:15PM

After Level 3 being implemented on Tuesday at midnight, it'll take several days for already seeded infections to become ripe. It'll then take a few days for those seeded infections to infect their default close contacts (e.g. housemates/family). Level 4/5 now would be of minimal benefit because the pre-Level 3 infections haven't worked their way through the system yet.

Going to Level 3 has removed many sources of community transmission. There are going to be cases arising from what I've said above over the next few weeks regardless of whether we remain at Level 3 or go into army style lockdown - in households and among certain close contacts. There is absolutely no need for blind panic as a result of this.

Meanwhile, as we discuss plans to make hundreds of thousands unemployed again and collapse thousands of otherwise viable businesses, I note there are several outbreaks in healthcare settings which will sadly lead to the deaths of vulnerable patients. This will not be addresses by shutting non essential retail businesses and stopping people moving beyond 5km of their residences which have not brought us to where we are today.

Thierry12 · 11-10-2020 08:16PM

Qiaonasen wrote: »

Well, it should have been obvious that the flu vaccine would be more in demand this year. Poor planning.

Thank you

Careful criticising, people will think your loon here

Government and NPHET are doing a great job

Miike · 11-10-2020 08:17PM

Thierry12 wrote: »

We would have had 10,000 - 15,000 cases a day then?

coastwatch · 11-10-2020 08:18PM

niallo27 wrote: »

Covid numbers in icu are about 20% of what they were at the peak though so we have a long way to go.

True, but there are currently only 39 ICU beds available, because non-covid / elective procedures have continued this time.

Tredstone · 11-10-2020 08:21PM

The time for blanket closures is over

As said above, we need to leave safe business operating wherever possible

Miike · 11-10-2020 08:23PM

niallo27 wrote: »

Covid numbers in icu are about 20% of what they were at the peak though so we have a long way to go.

Are we using our first wave as a baseline now? So we only react when it's a total unmitigated shít show? As someone who works in the acute service I don't ever want to go back to that again.

The nature of the initial outbreak in Ireland (in the older population) is why we had such MASSIVE numbers in ICU. We're not back to that cohort of people getting infected yet but the trends are moving towards those in the higher risk age bracket. Today, not so much, but over the last 7-14 days there is a worrying trend which is demonstrated in the operations report and DoH briefings.

mountgomery burns · 11-10-2020 08:24PM

coastwatch wrote: »

True, but there are currently only 39 ICU beds available, because non-covid / elective procedures have continued this time.

Elective procedures hardly lead to ICU care?

Miike · 11-10-2020 08:25PM

mountgomery burns wrote: »

Elective procedures hardly lead to ICU care?

Of course they do. Significantly so.

martingriff · 11-10-2020 08:26PM

mountgomery burns wrote: »

Was there anyone else in ICU without Covid back in April or what happened there?

Not having a go, but I've seen that point mentioned before yet nobody has mentioned how people in ICU care for non-covid related issues were treated during the peak?

I am sure there were people in ICU before and during Covid other illnesses and the like did not just stop. What is your point. If they get overwhelmed they get overwhelmed. They will also want to make sure that those people do not get Covid as more then likely in there condition it would not be good to get it.

As for your other questions I do not know but again why would it matter

martingriff · 11-10-2020 08:29PM

Thierry12 wrote: »

Thank you

Careful criticising, people will think your loon here

Government and NPHET are doing a great job

How are NPHET at fault for the flu vaccine. It was the same last night there were 2 posters who were blaming them for everything even though they have nothing to do with anything other then advising on Covid. You going to be like them and not answer anyone who points this out

mountgomery burns · 11-10-2020 08:30PM

Miike wrote: »

Are we using our first wave as a baseline now? So we only react when it's a total unmitigated shít show? As someone who works in the acute service I don't ever want to go back to that again.

The nature of the initial outbreak in Ireland (in the older population) is why we had such MASSIVE numbers in ICU. We're not back to that cohort of people getting infected yet but the trends are moving towards those in the higher risk age bracket. Today, not so much, but over the last 7-14 days there is a worrying trend which is demonstrated in the operations report and DoH briefings.

But we have reacted? Hospitality industry closed pretty much, tight restrictions on congregation in organized settings. Sanitization facilities wide spread, limits on numbers in shops, most people that can are working from home. And mass testings, over six times what it was in the last week in March.

The growth is slow, hopefully it drops and stabilizes at a lower level that enables this to be managed. But we should avoid pressing the big red button if at all possible.

WoollyRedHat · 11-10-2020 08:31PM

Have the government announced that they will recruit more contact tracers? We're shooting into the dark as long as contact trace system remains understaffed.

Miike · 11-10-2020 08:31PM

mountgomery burns wrote: »

But we should avoid pressing the big red button if at all possible.

I whole heatedly agree but if we press it too late, we're royally fúcked.

Funsterdelux · 11-10-2020 08:32PM

s1ippy wrote: »

That is very cold. This view seems to me to be incredibly short-sighted. Even healthy people can have bad outcomes from this. What do you think about school staff and people with children in schools, is it acceptable to you that their level of risk is increased by so much? Is it acceptable the way transparency has gone in the toilet about these institutions and there's a refusal to admit that there's huge amounts of transmission which puts those attending and working in schools at risk? Like, you can't make an informed choice if you don't have the information.

I couldn't agree more with the last part but as for balancing life and risk, my family and I are avoiding risk in order to preserve more life... What might have been regarded as mundane before is the option I now choose habitually. I actually can't understand how people can enjoy going out and chancing it, I'd be paranoid about every symptom for two weeks afterwards and wouldn't be able to enjoy myself at all.

Plus there are loads of fun things still available to do at home!

+1

I think this sums up why I wont be eating out/going to a pub with my family for the foreseeable. We spent a lovely afternoon at the beach yesterday, the kids had a great time with their cousins. We even had a seal pop its head up to say hello.

You create a recirculation zone behind barriers like plexiglasses, benches, wall separators etc. So it means that a large vortex (or many of them) can form. Aerosol concentration can get trapped behind the wall in concentration pockets.

https://mobile.twitter.com/VVuorinenAalto/status/1313841391999627265

martingriff · 11-10-2020 08:32PM

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

Have the government announced that they will recruit more contact tracers? We're shooting into the dark as long as contact trace system remains understaffed.

I think it was yesterday (I thin) I heard that more people were been trained but it be a few day

WoollyRedHat · 11-10-2020 08:34PM

Miike wrote: »

Lads is it just me or is Micheal Martin not singing from the same hymn sheet as others in government? Every time someone 'senior' says one thing, he comes out the polar opposite or some otherwise off-beat statement. Varadkar this morning mention the potential need for something akin to a 'circuit breaker' and now Martin is talking about how he is not convinced by experimental procedures - both are seated on the COVID19 Cabinet sub-committee.

There is a really harrowing warning of this type of communication from government in a book by Dr. Johnathan D. Quick (a respected public health expert and former Director of EDM for the World Health Organisation) which speaks to how dangerous this type of disconnected communication is when faced with an epidemic. He quotes several sources over past epidemics and how poor communication has had disastrous outcomes in other countries. I read this book when it was released a few years ago and I've actually gone back to read it again; it feels very much like we've fallen into every single disaster trap he describes when it comes to responding to public health emergencies.

Any chance you can lend your copy to the three musketeers in Leinster House as an early Christmas present?

WoollyRedHat · 11-10-2020 08:35PM

martingriff wrote: »

I think it was yesterday (I thin) I heard that more people were been trained but it be a few day

Hopefully enough to cope with increasing numbers.

Strumms · 11-10-2020 08:38PM

GazzaL wrote: »

That's it. Lockdowns are an act of economic terrorism, attacking businesses and ordinary, decent people who are trying to earn a living.

People wanting to keep their businesses running as normal with no consideration for the health of staff, customers the country etc is health terrorism...

Lockdown isn’t terrorism.

mountgomery burns · 11-10-2020 08:39PM

martingriff wrote: »

I am sure there were people in ICU before and during Covid other illnesses and the like did not just stop. What is your point. If they get overwhelmed they get overwhelmed. They will also want to make sure that those people do not get Covid as more then likely in there condition it would not be good to get it.

As for your other questions I do not know but again why would it matter

So from what I remember we never had ever critical care bed available in the Country occupied in the country back in April. I do remember the Mater reporting they were full alright but I think nationwide there was space to accommodate people.

Basically, looking at the HSE report and the small number of available critical care beds would suggest being overwhelmed is imminent but doesn't take into account the surge capacity. And I know if that continues to escalate it will greatly impinge on other healthcare services being provided, but just think it's not accurate to use that number as a point to say we are on the brink.

Away With The Fairies · 11-10-2020 08:40PM

This whole thing is just a mess

Economy Vs people's health

Gael23 · 11-10-2020 08:41PM

I can see January being pretty grim. People won’t follow any restrictions at Christmas and we will see the fallout from that in January.

Miike · 11-10-2020 08:42PM

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

Have the government announced that they will recruit more contact tracers? We're shooting into the dark as long as contact trace system remains understaffed.

https://www.pscp.tv/w/1vOxwkEeYNMxB

65 taken on in the past week, 75 to start over the coming week.

The painful part is screening and vetting which takes time, sadly. There isn't a reasonable way to circumvent that process

mountgomery burns · 11-10-2020 08:43PM

Gael23 wrote: »

I can see January being pretty grim. People won’t follow any restrictions at Christmas and we will see the fallout from that in January.

We'll deal with October first

Tenzor07 · 11-10-2020 08:43PM

Strumms wrote: »

People wanting to keep their businesses running as normal with no consideration for the health of staff, customers the country etc is health terrorism...
Lockdown isn’t terrorism.

Exactly! My local Tesco, Supervalu and Dunnes, forking terrismists they are! That's without mentioning the Germans! Lidl/Aldi, basically The Volksfrei in Ireland....

Close them all now!

Widdensushi · 11-10-2020 08:44PM

Funsterdelux wrote: »

+1

I think this sums up why I wont be eating out/going to a pub with my family for the foreseeable. We spent a lovely afternoon at the beach yesterday, the kids had a great time with their cousins. We even had a seal pop its head up to say hello.

https://mobile.twitter.com/VVuorinenAalto/status/1313841391999627265

That makes sense, if it is as airborne as we are led to believe, I still don't understand how if it as contagious from surfaces as some say how every single person working in a supermarket has not had it. With or without masks every item that is bought is touched by the customer and the teller,multiple times, I often see the tellers having to take the customers phones to help them with the rewards card apps. It doesn't make sense.

Harry Palmr · 11-10-2020 08:44PM

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Ireland ordered 1.4 million flu vaccines this year. They ordered 1.2 million last year and 1 million was used.

Boots demanded I explain why I was an at risk person or a close contact of an at risk person before they gave it to me.

They ordered 1.35m adult strength doses and 600,000 child doses so two million total.

Miike · 11-10-2020 08:44PM

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

This whole thing is just a mess

Economy Vs people's health

An economy can recover but you cannot resurrect the dead. I'm not saying we go full steam ahead and lock everything in sight. I understand the psychosocial impact of 'lockdowns' including the long term fallout but I'm just saying that when the call needs to be made, it has to be made. It's a horrific thing to try to balance

odyssey06 · 11-10-2020 08:45PM

Gael23 wrote: »

I can see January being pretty grim. People won’t follow any restrictions at Christmas and we will see the fallout from that in January.

That's why there's all the talk of a lockdown \ circuit break before christmas...
So that when all the usual Christmas stuff (ok maybe not the pubs stuff and company xmas parties) happens it will be starting from a low base of cases.

Covid 19 Part XXV-44,159 ROI (1,830 deaths) 21,898 NI (598 deaths) (13/10) Read OP

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