Covid 19 Part XXV-44,159 ROI (1,830 deaths) 21,898 NI (598 deaths) (13/10) Read OP

Knine · 07-10-2020 12:06AM

Arghus wrote: »

Because the idea of keeping everyone over the age of the 65 perfectly safe while the virus runs riot outside is unrealistic. What about the people who live with these people? Or who care or provide medical assistance to these people? They will also have be isolated indefinitely. As well as other people who are medically vulnerable under the age of 65, which is not a small amount. Rampant covid in the community means hospitals will be off limits for an indefinite period of time - so an even greater backlog of appointments and surgeries then even with the lockdown and even less access to medical care to those who really need it.

It's an absolutely unworkable idea and people who propose haven't thought about how difficult it is.

Most Family Carers already felt very isolated long before Covid arrived! We were totally forgotten about during the last lockdown.

I don't think posters realise the amount of medical care/appointments that those we care for need.

SeaBreezes · 07-10-2020 12:06AM

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Let the virus run its course unopposed?

Most of us would survive & be alright, wouldn't we?
Devil's advocate.

But its unlikely you STAY immune to this bug.

And everytime you get it,, it damages your immune system a little more. So (say).it comes back every year. Leaving your body open to other disease, how many times before your not the healthy one anymore?

5 years?

Not to mention the HUGE mortality rate every time..

Cheaper and more humane to.stamp.it out now.

MrMusician18 · 07-10-2020 12:10AM

Strumms wrote: »

Too many people are ‘playing’ the mental health card because it quite simply suits their agenda.

This behavior is not limited to covid issues, it’s rank over the last few years from everywhere from workplaces, social groups, sports teams... covid is just a natural environment from where people who want something that they might be denied, decide to embrace a mental health angle to angle their own agenda front and center.

That said, with covid some will or may have psychological issues. Ok but those issues need to be addressed by psychologists, professionals NOT fücking addressed by the government and others bowing and cow-towing to them by scrapping an informed, common sense approach that will help in favor of a risk heavy policy that is much more likely to see this get further out of hand.

The problem may indeed be much worse. The endless banging on about mental health may well be inducing mental health problems.

Iirc the prime time special on post covid had a poll where 40% of people between 18-25 claimed they had mental health issues sure to the restrictions. It looks like we are bring up yound adults that don't actually leave childhood until their mid to late 20 and this cohort really struggles with resilience in adversity.

07-10-2020 12:14AM

SeaBreezes wrote: »

But its unlikely you STAY immune to this bug.

And everytime you get it,, it damages your immune system a little more. So (say).it comes back every year. Leaving your body open to other disease, how many times before your not the healthy one anymore?

5 years?

Not to mention the HUGE mortality rate every time..

Cheaper and more humane to.stamp.it out now.

Don't suppose you have anything to back this up?

Away With The Fairies · 07-10-2020 12:35AM

Does anyone know how are dentists dealing with covid? I can imagine they are high risk with dental procedures being aerosolised?

Queried · 07-10-2020 12:45AM

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Does anyone know how are dentists dealing with covid? I can imagine they are high risk with dental procedures being aerosolised?

I've been to the dentist recently and there was a temperature check upon entry but otherwise business as usual. Distancing in the waiting room but no change during the appointment. I certainly would imagine they would be considered high risk, I rescheduled my original appointment as I had a sore throat and couldn't put my dentist at risk. Feel for them, there's no way they wouldn't be a close contact if a patient tested positive!

Ficheall · 07-10-2020 12:45AM

Hamsterchops wrote: »

...
Let the virus run its course unopposed?

Most of us would survive & be alright, wouldn't we?
Devil's advocate.

If we could avoid starting a trend of people putting stuff like "Devil's advocate" in invisible text to allow them to post nonsense which they've no intention of standing over, that would be nice.
And no, before someone points it out, I know I'm not a mod - just someone trying to dredge something worthwhile from what is already a difficult thread to read through.

Plumbthedepths · 07-10-2020 12:46AM

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Does anyone know how are dentists dealing with covid? I can imagine they are high risk with dental procedures being aerosolised?

You could always ring a dentist and ask prehaps. Surely they could give a more coherent answer than you would accept from here.

ElTel · 07-10-2020 12:47AM

fly_agaric wrote: »

I don't think it is going to work here.

Anything I've read about Asian efforts at this suggest to me it is very invasive of privacy.

Apart from the resources required to do it properly (I suppose those could be obtained), asking people nicely where they have been the last 2 weeks or so is not going to be enough.

Collecting people's credit/debit or public transport card use details, their phone location data etc. would be needed but that is never going to happen.

Then there is issue of actually making people get tests & quarantine off the back off this expanded contact tracing effort. They (and employers) would just have to accept it + not try and weasel out of it.

Like enforcing some of our public health "recommendations" or "advice", neither the capability or the will are there so am increasingly pessimistic Ireland may just have to accept what comes & eat the ongoing economic damage and more deaths and sickness.

Yeah you're right sadly. Even if a notifiable disease allowed for "powers" similar to what can be used in a police investigation I can't see it happening anytime soon.

It's impressive how many asian countries can get on top of outbreaks just by invading peoples personal info. :pac:

Away With The Fairies · 07-10-2020 12:51AM

Queried wrote: »

I've been to the dentist recently and there was a temperature check upon entry but otherwise business as usual. Distancing in the waiting room but no change during the appointment. I certainly would imagine they would be considered high risk, I rescheduled my original appointment as I had a sore throat and couldn't put my dentist at risk. Feel for them, there's no way they wouldn't be a close contact if a patient tested positive!

Do they wear N95 masks now? What about leaving their room free between patients and airing it out because if this is airborne, it will take one patient to infect others without having to come into contact with them.

Hamsterchops · 07-10-2020 12:53AM

Ficheall wrote: »

If we could avoid starting a trend of people putting stuff like "Devil's advocate" in invisible text to allow them to post nonsense which they've no intention of standing over, that would be nice.
And no, before someone points it out, I know I'm not a mod - just someone trying to dredge something worthwhile from what is already a difficult thread to read through.

No, you have completely missed the point of my devil's advocate post, which has had the desired affect in promoting debate and pouring cold water on the very idea of letting the virus wash over us. So many questions about how to deal with this blasted virus, so by throwing up ideas (that have floated about), then it's good to see knowledgeable posters shooting down those ideas and explaining why that wouldn't work.

Thanks to Strumms, Knine, Arghus & SeaBreezes for knowledgeable & sensible contributions.

Thats me · 07-10-2020 12:54AM

ElTel wrote: »

It's impressive how many asian countries can get on top of outbreaks just by invading peoples personal info. :pac:

This can be supported by hiding stats. Both measures all together would help to suppress any outbreaks when you have gazzilion of spare humans.

fritzelly · 07-10-2020 12:56AM

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Does anyone know how are dentists dealing with covid? I can imagine they are high risk with dental procedures being aerosolised?

Friend has dental check up and cleaning tomorrow - so no bother on them

speckle · 07-10-2020 01:07AM

Ficheall wrote: »

If we could avoid starting a trend of people putting stuff like "Devil's advocate" in invisible text to allow them to post nonsense which they've no intention of standing over, that would be nice.
And no, before someone points it out, I know I'm not a mod - just someone trying to dredge something worthwhile from what is already a difficult thread to read through.

Totally agree, especially in a difficult thread to follow at times, and someone might be using text recogition if vision impaired.

Kermit.de.frog · 07-10-2020 01:08AM

https://twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/1313613285116215296

The White House now being described as being like a nursing home.

Queried · 07-10-2020 01:10AM

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Do they wear N95 masks now? What about leaving their room free between patients and airing it out because if this is airborne, it will take one patient to infect others without having to come into contact with them.

Not in my experience no, just the usual surgical masks that my dentist has always worn. Also as far as I'm aware there didn't seem to be a gap between patients, one patient left and then I was called, however there are two dentists in the practice I go to so can't be sure that the patient hadn't been in with the other dentist. This may not be the case in all dentist's surgeries but the one I attend is part of a chain of practices so would imagine it's fairly representative of the general experience.

Ficheall · 07-10-2020 01:11AM

Hamsterchops wrote: »

No, you have completely missed the point of my devil's advocate post, which has had the desired affect in promoting debate and pouring cold water on the very idea of letting the virus wash over us. So many questions about how to deal with it, so by throwing up ideas that have floated about, then it's good to see knowledgeable posters shooting it down and explaining why it wouldn't work.

Thanks to Strumms, Arghus & SeaBreezes for contributions.

There are already plenty of self-centred posters floating the "let the elderly cocoon themselves" idea, and people have explained to them why it's less than ideal - I'm not sure people pretending to believe in stupid ideas to have the arguments repeated ad nauseum is going to nudge anyone off the fence in any particular direction.
But tbh, it was moreso the invisible text aspect of it that bothered me - it's easy to miss - even when quoted - on crappy monitors, so people think they're responding to a genuine fool as opposed to a pretend one. So if you could make the invisible Devil's advocate text visible for your "Why don't we just inject bleach?" post, I for one would appreciate it.

Ficheall · 07-10-2020 01:15AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The White House now being described as being like a nursing home.

Presumably by people who didn't know anyone who was in an actual nursing home during this mess.

Hamsterchops · 07-10-2020 01:20AM

Well Ficheall I think it good that my post prompted sensible replies, even if it's annoyed you....

PS: The devil's advocate was meant to be dark black instead of white if that helps you? Either way it promoted good & sensible replies.

Doesn't take much to annoy you.

Kermit.de.frog · 07-10-2020 01:21AM

Ficheall wrote: »

Presumably by people who didn't know anyone who was in an actual nursing home during this mess.

They mean in terms of spread within a single structure presumably.

Ficheall · 07-10-2020 01:23AM

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Well Ficheall I think it good that my post prompted sensible replies, even if it's annoyed you....

The thread is full of sensible replies to foolish ideas.

I hope that if your sensible responders decide your posts are not genuine, and stop responding to them as though they were, that you will consider posting the sensible replies as opposed to the foolish ideas to try prompt them.

Hamsterchops wrote: »

PS: The devil's advocate was meant to be dark black instead of white if that helps you?

It does, a lot. The "bold" font is probably easier then, and less likely to become invisible, if that helps.

Hamsterchops · 07-10-2020 01:26AM

Ficheall wrote: »

The thread is full of sensible replies to foolish ideas.

I hope that if your sensible responders decide your posts are not genuine, and stop responding to them as though they were, that you will consider posting the sensible replies as opposed to the foolish ideas to try prompt them.

Would you ever go & get lost, you have now derailed this thread with your bleating, honestly the question about the virus washing over us was asked and answered, and all was fine, now you've gone off on one ....

Strumms · 07-10-2020 01:26AM

MrMusician18 wrote: »

The problem may indeed be much worse. The endless banging on about mental health may well be inducing mental health problems.

Iirc the prime time special on post covid had a poll where 40% of people between 18-25 claimed they had mental health issues sure to the restrictions. It looks like we are bring up yound adults that don't actually leave childhood until their mid to late 20 and this cohort really struggles with resilience in adversity.

100% A clinical/psychological evaluation is the only way to diagnose a person with a medical or mental health issue.

I can’t rock up to my best mate tomorrow and say.... “I am depressed”. Nor can I say “I have heart disease”.. in both scenarios I’ll need the view of a qualified practitioner following a consultation / examination.

“Im so depressed”

“I have heart disease”

“I have asthma”

You have none of those illnesses unless you are diagnosed by a currently qualified psychologist, doctor etc.... if they TELL you that you are depressed or suffering from cancer or asthma then you have been diagnosed with those conditions.

If you haven’t been and are feeling unwell, seek help. But let’s not kid ourselves too many people are using the mental heath angle, in particular as it relates to covid so they may absolve themselves and others around from having to be a team player.

Ficheall · 07-10-2020 01:27AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

They mean in terms of spread within a single structure presumably.

Aye, I know. The available care will be vastly different though

JP Liz V1 · 07-10-2020 02:11AM

hotmail.com wrote: »

The cases have been high now for several weeks. Has there been a significant increase in hospitalisations?
Answer ... No.

Yes it's over 100

Strumms · 07-10-2020 02:29AM

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Does anyone know how are dentists dealing with covid? I can imagine they are high risk with dental procedures being aerosolised?

I’d hate to be a dentist.

Mine has been seeing his patients wearing both a shield and a mask. As are his staff. There is glass partition in front of the receptionists now too.

He is doing some kind of fog / steam cleaning of the surgery in between each consultation and as a result of this able to see about 70-75% of the usual client volume. But he admitted that business is a little down as a result of covid so no big deal on time and clients it’s just a pain... he might have a 15 minute initial consultation / examination with a client then 20 minutes cleaning / decontamination as well as prep for the next client.... knackered come Friday night he says, no wonder.

Gael23 · 07-10-2020 02:37AM

Does there look to be any backlog to be released over the next few days?

mandrake04 · 07-10-2020 03:02AM

Santy2015 wrote: »

Seem to be testing less over the past few days...

Too many Ostriches

Boggles wrote: »

Doctor from Donegal on the radio this morning saying people who have been confirmed close contacts or awaiting test results walking past his surgery the past couple of weeks.

https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/tsunami-cases-in-lifford-strabane-area-will-result/id698050979?i=1000493811085

No legislation for Stupidity

suicide_circus · 07-10-2020 04:42AM

mountgomery burns wrote: »

It's amazing how much faith and belief some people have in high ranking civil servants in the department of health and officials of the HSE, while at the same time bemoaning the dreadful management of investments in our health service in the last 20-30 years.

+1

stephenjmcd · 07-10-2020 06:07AM

Paywall, but I've had a read of it.

Basically 3 ministers suggested it on Monday at cabinet. Wasn't brought in of course. It really is 1 paragraph, the rest of the article is about the Gardai and the checkpoints from today.

1 intersting line from it, I think anyone could have told them this but it also then doesn't make sense as they brought in more regulations on pubs and restaurants so people can't exactly go there now, so the below is a bit strange.

"It was noted at the meeting that reducing off-licence opening hours may also help pubs and restaurants as people may be more likely to go to regulated premises rather than house parties."

Anyway didn't progress past being an idea thrown around on Monday.

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/off-licence-hours-may-be-slashed-to-cut-house-parties-39596359.html

Covid 19 Part XXV-44,159 ROI (1,830 deaths) 21,898 NI (598 deaths) (13/10) Read OP

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