Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings

06-10-2020 12:35PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

The mandatory masks in shops law expired yesterday with threat of jail, I didn't see anywhere it's been renewed, can anyone confirm?

It has been renewed for another 5 weeks, expect that to be further extended after 5 weeks.

Even if it wasn’t would be really be stupid enough to go into shops etc without masks?

JeffKenna · 06-10-2020 12:39PM

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

With respect, did you read the letter that was sent to the Government?
It specifically says that if there isn't a Level 5 lockdown for a period of 4 weeks now, and if there is a more gradual approach to the raising of levels, then there will be need for a Level 5 lockdown for a longer period in the near future.

If the government are right and we don't have a Level 5 in a few weeks time, then NPHET were wrong. If NPHET were right and things don't improve over the next few weeks and we see an imposition of Level 5 then the government were wrong.

I am not speculating on who's right or wrong. I'm just saying there appears to be a specific situation where one side has betted the opposite of the other.

I don't think the government ever said that we wouldn't end up at level 5. What I heard from Leo last night is that we should use the road map that's there. Try level 3 first and see if that works.

facehugger99 · 06-10-2020 12:41PM

Rrrrrr2 wrote: »

Donohoe's input was fairly telling alright- it's clear the money isn't there for Level 5

The Government will be forced to adopt an approach that many of us were advocating 7 months ago.

The only difference will be the billions of additional debt we've taken on in the interim which will leave us far less able to deal with the fallout.

There's been a cynical and cowardly approach from Day 1.

hans aus dtschl · 06-10-2020 12:42PM

JeffKenna wrote: »

I don't think the government ever said that we wouldn't end up at level 5. What I heard from Leo last night is that we should use the road map that's there. Try level 3 first and see if that works.

The NPHET letter explicitly says that won't work.

To clarify, I don't have an opinion on who's right or wrong. I'm just again saying that both sides are saying directly opposing things.

polesheep · 06-10-2020 12:44PM

facehugger99 wrote: »

The Government will be forced to adopt an approach that many of us were advocating 7 months ago.

The only difference will be the billions of additional debt we've taken on in the interim which will leave us far less able to deal with the fallout.

There's been a cynical and cowardly approach from Day 1.

For whatever reason they did it, the refusal to tell those most at risk to take particular care and to implement policies that would enable them to do that, and instead restrict everyone, was criminal.

Captain_Crash · 06-10-2020 12:45PM

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

The NPHET letter explicitly says that won't work.

To clarify, I don't have an opinion on who's right or wrong. I'm just again saying that both sides are saying directly opposing things.

This is the stand out part for me... NPHET say we must act now and the gov didn't... so the question for me is what do the government believe that NPHET don't? or did Paschal spell it out, we can afford it and this is as restricted as we can afford to get??

06-10-2020 12:46PM

JeffKenna wrote: »

I don't think the government ever said that we wouldn't end up at level 5. What I heard from Leo last night is that we should use the road map that's there. Try level 3 first and see if that works.

But it won’t work as people are too selfish or stupid to abide by the restrictions so after a few weeks of this then we will have to go up the levels thus prolonging everything.

If we went to level 5 and closed the schools from tomorrow for 3 weeks this really would start to make a difference. Instead it will be dragged out for a few weeks at level 3, then maybe 4 and then level 5 all the while people are out of work longer etc. Go hard and fast on lockdowns and you come out of them faster.

bucketybuck · 06-10-2020 12:46PM

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

The NPHET letter explicitly says that won't work.

To clarify, I don't have an opinion on who's right or wrong. I'm just again saying that both sides are saying directly opposing things.

I'm not sure they are.

The governments position should not be that NPHET are wrong, it should be that even if they are right, there are other things that need to be taken into account.

Of course that is an inconvenient truth for those who see Covid as the be all and end all.

polesheep · 06-10-2020 12:47PM

Captain_Crash wrote: »

This is the stand out part for me... NPHET say we must act now and the gov didn't... so the question for me is what do the government believe that NPHET don't? or did Paschal spell it out, we can afford it and this is as restricted as we can afford to get??

For the government it was as much can't as won't. It's taking a long time for the penny to drop with some of the public that restrictions come with a massive financial cost that cannot be maintained forever.

facehugger99 · 06-10-2020 12:48PM

It's almost been funny seeing some of the slow-learners start to wake up the nonsense of the 'zero-Covid approach being advocated by NPHET.

I fully expect another 'road to Damascus' moment when services start getting cut and taxes are hiked to pay for all the money we’ve pissed away.

Unfortunately it will be far too late by that time.

Dr Tony, Dr Ro-Ro, the other 38(!) members of NPHET and our political masters will be well insulated from whats coming in the post.

The rest of us will be left with the bill.

bucketybuck · 06-10-2020 12:50PM

Captain_Crash wrote: »

This is the stand out part for me... NPHET say we must act now and the gov didn't... so the question for me is what do the government believe that NPHET don't?

I'd say they believe that the cure is worse than the disease. That following one groups advice could save 100 lives now but kill thousands in the long term.

Quite frankly I want the government to be questioning those choices rather than abdicating responsibility to a single issue group.

drunkmonkey · 06-10-2020 12:52PM

Guards not getting any more powers, can only advise you about guidelines, they have no legal basis to stop you crossing the county border or doing what you want in your own home.

crossman47 · 06-10-2020 12:53PM

Grant Billions Bifocals wrote: »

It has been renewed for another 5 weeks, expect that to be further extended after 5 weeks.

Even if it wasn’t would be really be stupid enough to go into shops etc without masks?

But its clear we have an awful lot of very stupid people.

topper75 · 06-10-2020 12:54PM

Grant Billions Bifocals wrote: »

... Go hard and fast on lockdowns and you come out of them faster.

And for how long can we keep going in and out of these lockdowns?

The disease causes some disruption. I don't think people in their social and economic planning need ANOTHER deliberately-created layer of disruption.

When we come out of a lockdown (however fast - it doesn't matter) I have to work out the purchase of perishable food or drink stock and the staff roster. If I am trying to do this under a govt that likes to slam the nuclear button - well that is impossible virtually. We need a better way where we ignore cases and focus on hospital resourcing for people in trouble. Cases have gone nuts in France - way higher than Spring. But deaths have hardly crept off the horizontal graph axis. NPHET's concern was misplaced with over focus on case data.

JeffKenna · 06-10-2020 12:57PM

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

The NPHET letter explicitly says that won't work.

To clarify, I don't have an opinion on who's right or wrong. I'm just again saying that both sides are saying directly opposing things.

Went back and had a read of the letter again.

NPHET state that the measures will only be achieved with broad society buy in, yet what confuses me is that the actions of leaking the details on a Sunday night was actively working against that goal.

polesheep · 06-10-2020 12:58PM

JeffKenna wrote: »

Went back and had a read of the letter again.

NPHET state that the measures will only be achieved with broad society buy in, yet what confuses me is that the actions of leaking the details on a Sunday night was actively working against that goal.

They simply don't see the people who cannot afford to buy-in. They are in a PS bubble.

weldoninhio · 06-10-2020 01:00PM

Grant Billions Bifocals wrote: »

It has been renewed for another 5 weeks, expect that to be further extended after 5 weeks.

Even if it wasn’t would be really be stupid enough to go into shops etc without masks?

It was renewed for public transport. I haven't seen anything renewing it for shops.

FintanMcluskey · 06-10-2020 01:05PM

Haha this man is a ranting lunatic.

The public realise now his only purpose is to lighten the mood.

Hes not the only one to loose credibility during Covid

https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/covid-19-circuit-break-5225075-Oct2020/

TRANQUILLO · 06-10-2020 01:06PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKFe0-iL1kw

I like this Cummins fella.

Irish Aris · 06-10-2020 01:06PM

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

With respect, did you read the letter that was sent to the Government?
It specifically says that if there isn't a Level 5 lockdown for a period of 4 weeks now, and if there is a more gradual approach to the raising of levels, then there will be need for a Level 5 lockdown for a longer period in the near future.

If the government are right and we don't have a Level 5 in a few weeks time, then NPHET were wrong. If NPHET were right and things don't improve over the next few weeks and we see an imposition of Level 5 then the government were wrong.

I am not speculating on who's right or wrong. I'm just saying there appears to be a specific situation where one side has betted the opposite of the other.

I understand your point, and this is what NPHET is meant to do.
What I suggest could happen is that in 3-4 weeks NPHET will recommend level 5 and the government will say: no, thank you. Not sure how likely this is but theoretically it is a possibility. That's why in the end of my post I mentioned that it will be interesting to see what happens in 3-4 weeks.
I just hope that the situation becomes more stable and level 5 can be off the table.

topper75 · 06-10-2020 01:10PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Haha this man is a ranting lunatic.

The public realise now his only purpose is to lighten the mood.

Hes not the only one to loose credibility during Covid

https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/covid-19-circuit-break-5225075-Oct2020/

Some article for a med doctor. Big on fear and ideology.
I'm sure it was originally full of data and the editor just took it out. :cool:
Or possibly not.

average_runner · 06-10-2020 01:14PM

John_Rambo wrote: »

We can't let the academics make decisions, they've no real practical relevance and only one narrow remit and are there to advice on health matters only. The government governs and has to take in to consideration education, employment and other important things. A lot of politicians have real life experience in business and other professions and are better suited to make decisions like this.

Most politicians are ex public service, so don't know how the real world works.

You need people from medical experience and business experience.
The guy from Trinity is one I would have on the team.
Some experience person from Food industry.
An CEO from IT and Accountant Industry.

average_runner · 06-10-2020 01:17PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Guards not getting any more powers, can only advise you about guidelines, they have no legal basis to stop you crossing the county border or doing what you want in your own home.

They shouldn't need the powers. We are big enough ourselves to get these numbers down.

average_runner · 06-10-2020 01:21PM

The extra bank holiday is a smart idea. Takes the pressure off the public transport system at xmas

drunkmonkey · 06-10-2020 01:28PM

average_runner wrote: »

They shouldn't need the powers. We are big enough ourselves to get these numbers down.

I'm all for personal responsibility. I should be heading to level 1 only now thrown into level 3 with no idea how to get back. The Government were very wrong to punish places that did the right thing. They've completely lost people in those county's now.

FintanMcluskey · 06-10-2020 01:29PM

average_runner wrote: »

The extra bank holiday is a smart idea. Takes the pressure off the public transport system at xmas

Tony H hasnt a notion of allowing the nation an extra bank holiday.

drunkmonkey · 06-10-2020 01:30PM

average_runner wrote: »

The extra bank holiday is a smart idea. Takes the pressure off the public transport system at xmas

Employers already struggling have to foot the bill for letting staff off now on one of the busiest days of the year in retail.
If this happens it just shows what kind of clowns are in charge.

06-10-2020 01:32PM

weldoninhio wrote: »

It was renewed for public transport. I haven't seen anything renewing it for shops.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/health/covid19/face_coverings_during_covid19

Its confirmed here.

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Haha this man is a ranting lunatic.

The public realise now his only purpose is to lighten the mood.

Hes not the only one to loose credibility during Covid

https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/covid-19-circuit-break-5225075-Oct2020/

He is exactly right, going to level 3 was a cop out and will do more damage by dragging everything out for much longer when we do eventually go to level 5.

average_runner · 06-10-2020 01:36PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Employers already struggling have to foot the bill for letting staff off now on one of the busiest days of the year in retail.
If this happens it just shows what kind of clowns are in charge.

It will actually encourage people to take more days off from work that week, instead of carrying days over and costing the company more in forecasting the following year.!!!

As for Retail, most shopping will be done before December this year as people will not leave it to chance. Most will be done online by majority, Symths online had to stop yesterday due to the demand

Ginger n Lemon · 06-10-2020 01:36PM

Grant Billions Bifocals wrote: »

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/health/covid19/face_coverings_during_covid19

Its confirmed here.

He is exactly right, going to level 3 was a cop out and will do more damage by dragging everything out for much longer when we do eventually go to level 5.

Noxx, what would you chose, saving 1 life of an 80 year old man or saving 100,000 jobs?

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings