Covid 19 Part XXIV-37,063 ROI (1,801 deaths) 12,886 NI (582 deaths) (02/10) Read OP

rob316 · 05-10-2020 11:31AM

Seamai wrote: »

A lot of people are fixated on the possibility of moving to level 5, I'm looking here at level 4 and the differences between the two are hardly worth talking about, at least IMHO.

Exactly Level 4 shuts everything again.

landofthetree · 05-10-2020 11:32AM

We are the laughing stock of Europe. The only country that has to go back to virtually full lockdown.

We have spent 4 years laughing at the UK and Brexit when we should have been fixing our health service.

05-10-2020 11:33AM

seamus wrote: »

The writing really wasn't on the wall. The eternally pessimistic of course have been claiming that lockdown was imminent since Mid-July.

But NPHET haven't. Just a few days ago they were recommending a slight increase in restrictions and were remarking with slightly optimism about Dublin:

3 days later they're freaking out and calling for a full lockdown?

If I were to read between the lines, I would say that NPHET is the Tony Holohan show and nobody else on the team has the balls to contradict him. It's no coincidence that this has come on Tony's first day back.

Either that or NPHET too have been caught by surprise.

Anyone claiming they could "see this coming" are either more qualified than NPHET, or are just a stopped clock.

I've a feeling, maybe, that Dr Tony, having seen the situation start to get out of hand, made a decision to come back on board, please goodness his wife having been stabilised enough in her cancer with treatment. Maybe she urged him back into harness too. It probably is now indeed "the Dr Holohan show".

stephenjmcd · 05-10-2020 11:34AM

TexasTornado wrote: »

The same people asking for a crack down on the house party idiots weeks ago and proper enforcement of regulations have been proven correct. Those people said it was that or we'd all suffer long term with businesses going to the wall as stricter levels are brought back.

It's not a "police state" or some other loon bag phrase to have these measures enforced, its proper responsible governance.

While I don't even like using the phrase police state because its not what it is.

It was and still would be extremely difficult to ever give enforcement powers for private homes purely due to to the constitution and its stance on the private home. You can't just rip that up and say to hell with it heres the powers, that's not how it works.

While I dont agree with house parties and people should have had more cop on theres a bit more behind it than just saying oh enforce this and enforce that

landofthetree · 05-10-2020 11:36AM

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Is dr Sam McConkey living in the real world at all ? He was saying it wouldn’t be a full lock down because business can operate online. Yeah because every business in the country has or it’s even practical to have an online part to their business.

Overpaid government worker insulated from the real world.

Beanybabog · 05-10-2020 11:36AM

rob316 wrote: »

Is Holohan some sort of genius that he can see something different to Glynn?

I think this is a good point. Some people have blind faith in NPHET but a change in leader results in an instantaneous change in strategy. Who is to say what’s right?

boggerman1 · 05-10-2020 11:36AM

TexasTornado wrote: »

Really like him tbh. He's calm and to the point.

McConkey is a bull****ter at this stage.dismisses any other health stuff,economic destruction or mental health of society at large.its all COVID ,COVID COVID.

05-10-2020 11:36AM

landofthetree wrote: »

We are the laughing stock of Europe. The only country that has to go back to virtually full lockdown.

We have spent 4 years laughing at the UK and Brexit when we should have been fixing our health service.

Lets be honest here, nobody in Europe is going to give a **** what sort of lockdown we're in. Dunno why this line keeps getting used

bb1234567 · 05-10-2020 11:36AM

landofthetree wrote: »

We are the laughing stock of Europe. The only country that has to go back to virtually full lockdown.

We have spent 4 years laughing at the UK and Brexit when we should have been fixing our health service.

Have you looked at the news at all lately? Madrid and dozens and of French cities going into lockdown, many parts of UK already in lockdown

Europe is too busy with their own COVID prpblems to be laughing at us.

stephenjmcd · 05-10-2020 11:38AM

bb1234567 wrote: »

Have you looked at the news at all lately? Madrid and dozens and of French cities going into lockdown, many parts of UK already in lockdown

For what its worth thats not a lockdown in Madrid. Most of the measures are similar to what us and the UK already had in place currently

ginoginelli · 05-10-2020 11:38AM

I am sceptical of the surprise by our politicians and media. Hospitals cases and icu numbers have rocketed. We only have so many beds, our hospitals could be overrun in a few months.

This determining factor has been made clear to them since the start of the pandemic. Are they really this out of touch with the reality of our predicament?

More than likely the pressure from big businesses who dont give e a hoot about people dying - as long as it isnt them - and are more concerned that their share value doesnt decrease is the source of their faux outrage.

polesheep · 05-10-2020 11:38AM

Deleted User wrote: »

I've a feeling, maybe, that Dr Tony, having seen the situation start to get out of hand, made a decision to come back on board, please goodness his wife having been stabilised enough in her cancer with treatment. Maybe she urged him back into harness too. It probably is now indeed "the Dr Holohan show".

An apt metaphor for a mule. The man shouldn't be within a million miles of the role of CMO.

sp00k · 05-10-2020 11:38AM

rob316 wrote: »

Exactly Level 4 shuts everything again.

The biggest difference is the 5km limit. But yes, everything else is essentially the same. Level 4 would be equally as disastrous as level 5 for the economy.

mirrorwall14 · 05-10-2020 11:38AM

For those saying teachers need to suck it up, I ask you to please take out your measuring tape and stand with your back against a wall. Set that measuring stick to 1m from the wall. The nose of my first student is at that 1m mark. If I pin myself against the whiteboard and never move or turn around I can just about be 1m away. I was genuinely stunned at how close they are to me compared to every other place I have been since covid and I measured twice. Luckily the music room is a little bigger so I’m not quite as on top of them but more than half my classes are that close.

There is nothing between me and them. We’re in this room with 24-27 students for either 40 minutes or 80 minutes at a time (that’s the max that will fit with 1m distancing). We will not however be considered a close contact, even with that front student because they’ve changed the rules for teachers up to 120 minutes. I am wearing my own mask (as are the students) because we were all supplied with just a visor which given the numbers and space and time is completely useless. Primary school is ‘worse’ in that they are just set at their usual groups of tables and they gave it the name ‘pods’ to pretend they’d done something

To be clear, I HATED teaching from home. Hated it. It was awful. We were a 1:1 school with devices so we went full remote on timetable immediately. I had two children of my own, one a toddler and we had no childcare. We were incredibly lucky to have jobs but it was a blur/nightmare and I never want to do it again

However I don’t feel safe. And I know many of my students don’t feel safe. How could they? The rules have been changed for us just to keep us in the room

The DES have sat on their hands. My school taught full time from home. We were lucky that our set up enabled it. They have no plan to enable other schools to do the same. It’s madness. We will end up with a hotchpotch of ‘bespoke’ solutions up and down the country and it will be used as another stick to bash the teachers with

iamwhoiam · 05-10-2020 11:38AM

If the bring in Level 5 for a month and tell us they will use that month to get their act together they just might have some hope
They need to bring in legislation to stop house parties , stop crowds gathering and make it law to have test if a close contact
Otherwise we have Level 5 for a month and in a month the same eejits will act the eejit again and we start all over again
Round and round we all go

What Username Guidelines · 05-10-2020 11:40AM

After seeing that Cork GAA video, I now understand the disdain felt towards all Dubs as a result of one 20 second video in Berlin Bar.

I now imagine the entire county of Cork out celebrating in parades and find myself thinking "Get it together, Cork" :mad:

polesheep · 05-10-2020 11:40AM

bennyl10 wrote: »

this is insane

clearly cases are rising. clearly something needs to be done

NPHET aren't just doing this to annoy people, hard decisions are gonna need to be taken, and we're gonna need level 5 in 4 weeks anyway! why not bite the bullet now and try and calm things a little before depths of winter?

"its not as bad as march yet" Yes and the point of level 4/5 now is to ensure it doesnt reach that point

We bit that particular bullet back in March and where did it get us? It's time for new thinking and we sure aren't going to get that from Holohan.

Seamai · 05-10-2020 11:40AM

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Heard that, there seems to be a weak minded mentality when it comes to the prospect of applying law to public behavior. Peer pressure clearly not sufficient. Various GAA hoolies, Antimask marches, student house parties, all ongoing and not a finger lifted to stop or curtail.

Yes, there seems to be a huge fear or reluctance on the part of the authorities to come across as heavy handed but in some cases this might be the only answer. I've seen the terms nanny and totaliterian state used a lot over the last 7 months but the fact of the matter is we live in a "soft touch" state. I heard one high ranking government member saying "we really don't want to be prosecuting or punishing anyone"
What kind of message does this send out?

froog · 05-10-2020 11:41AM

i think they need to be completely open and honest about schools. i fail to see how a widely accepted "petri dish" for spreading viruses suddenly is not an issue with COVID, a very infectious disease, same family as some cold viruses. we all know schools have been closing down all over the country with cases. and we all know there are lots of "family spreading" events. where do people think it's all coming from, restaurants??

it might be that if schools are open, the only way to control this thing is a level 4/5 nationwide, and even then it's not guaranteed. the alternative is a level 2/3 with schools closed.

we need to make a choice now.

05-10-2020 11:41AM

polesheep wrote: »

An apt metaphor for a mule. The man shouldn't be within a million miles of the role of CMO.

Now the insults.

polesheep · 05-10-2020 11:41AM

Looney1 wrote: »

no

Yes. In any private company he would be sidelined.

JDD · 05-10-2020 11:41AM

Looking at the hospital figures this is becoming a healthcare capacity crisis, which is an exacerbated version of what happens every year.

The problem is we almost get to breaking point - i.e. people dying because there is a lack of appropriate healthcare and staff to look after them - every year. In fact, I am sure there have been needless deaths in years that have gone by during the various trolley crises we've had. I know that I have sort of ignored this fact and gone about my daily life, trying not to think about what might happen if I had to be on a trolley in A&E or if one my loved ones were in that unfortunate position.

The problem is, once covid hospitalisations are added to the six week annual breaking point period, we simply won't be able to ignore it. Once you have tipped over the edge into people dying or having permanent health issues directly resulting from a lack of staff and resources (and as I said I wager we do that every year), every additional hospitalisation will suffer a similar fate. It might be possible to ignore four or five needless deaths every year, but if start getting forty or fifty a week, with the visuals of army tents and traumatised doctors going onto youtube then you are in a very difficult position.

Lockdown or not at that stage, people will be too afraid to venture out and the economic damage will be done anyway. What is less quantifiable is the economic damage we will suffer because be the images beamed outside of Ireland on how Ireland have completely mismanaged their crisis. Like or not we completely rely on inward investment. Outside investors were already jittery about the economic impact of a no deal Brexit on Ireland. While I think it would take a volcanic explosion for the current tech firms to leave Ireland, it might be the straw that stops new investors taking a punt on Ireland.

05-10-2020 11:41AM

MrMusician18 wrote: »

It's a very human trait to be a terrible judge of risk.

I think personally in my own case, I got trained to assess risk in my late teens when I did flight training; every time I would take off in the single engines aircraft I would have to assume the engine was going to fail at any moment, so one would constantly look out below for potential landing spots. It trained me to be hyper-vigilant. Also trained to plan as far as possible for all possible eventualities pre-flight. In my own head it is normal to have this mind-set, and I have to be reminded it is not normally part of everyday thinking.

TonyMaloney · 05-10-2020 11:42AM

I found a nice official data source if anyone's interested in playing around with it.

Here's our hospitalisations on a log graph. We're about 30 days away from having the same levels we had at the peak back in April if things continue like this.

TexasTornado · 05-10-2020 11:42AM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

While I don't even like using the phrase police state because its not what it is.

It was extremely difficult to ever give enforcement powers for private homes purely due to to the constitution and its stance on the private home. You can't just rip that up and say to hell with it heres the powers, that's not how it works.

While I dont agree with house parties and people should have had more cop on theres a bit more behind it than just saying oh enforce this and enforce that

Never said it be easy but the alternative is harder.

Take Halloween for instance. I'm pretty active on several other forums and a poster suggested last week that the government should be bringing in measures now to enforce we see no bonfires or large scale gatherings of youths or adults at parties at that time.

If it means the army has to brought out to enforce it then so be it. The countries that have a handle on this have a massive buy in from the public and a widespread social consciousness that is absent here.

Halloween this year could very well be a massive super spreading event if allowed go ahead as usual as thousands of people gather is huge huddled groups drinking and what not.

polesheep · 05-10-2020 11:44AM

Deleted User wrote: »

A judgement of a man based on sweet FA

Are you kidding? Like him or loath him, you cannot believe that he can be objective. In any private company the CEO would be sidelined in similar circumstances. And I not even going to mention the word 'cervix'. Oops, I just did.

seamus · 05-10-2020 11:44AM

bennyl10 wrote: »

clearly cases are rising. clearly something needs to be done

NPHET aren't just doing this to annoy people

Nobody is saying that. But clearly somebody has made a balls of something here.

Mid-last week;

"Things aren't going great, we'll probably look at moving other counties to higher levels"

"There are encouraging signs from Dublin"

"We're not just looking at case numbers, we're looking at other indicators before making decisions"

After three days of worsening numbers, and on the day that Dr. Holohan returns:

"LOCK. DOWN. EVERYTHING".

So there's something fvcky going on here.

And if it is the case, as another poster has alluded to, that Dr. Holohan took himself off sabbatical so that he could take over and demand a new lockdown, then his judgement needs to be called into question, as well as the entire point of having NPHET there at all.

mandrake04 · 05-10-2020 11:44AM

Raphael Damaged Timer wrote: »

Anything anywhere about possible restrictions on airports ? Pissing in the wind locking the country down if they aren't shutting them down.

Apparently nothing to do with Airports, its 5G Masts, schools, unopened pubs and Meat Factories that's the cause.

brick tamland · 05-10-2020 11:46AM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

For what its worth thats not a lockdown in Madrid. Most of the measures are similar to what us and the UK already had in place currently

Madrids "lockdown" isnt even as heavy handed as Dublin and Donegal's current restrictions. Cant see to many places in Europe (if any) under tighter restrictions than Dublin at the moment.

bennyl10 · 05-10-2020 11:46AM

polesheep wrote: »

We bit that particular bullet back in March and where did it get us? It's time for new thinking and we sure aren't going to get that from Holohan.

It got us to a very good place in the summer,

a place that has now been ruined by people being eegits and thinking the rules don't apply to them.

Where we are now is not because of March its because n the past 8 or so weeks, so many people have stopped giving a crap, and those same people are saying "NPHET are abusing power" now

If level 4/5 is what THE EXPERTS think is needed to get us back to a safe and sustainable place, for the health service and all of us, then so be it, that is the fact.

Marching down grafton street like a gob****e is why we are here

Covid 19 Part XXIV-37,063 ROI (1,801 deaths) 12,886 NI (582 deaths) (02/10) Read OP

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