COVID-19: Vaccine/antidote and testing procedures Megathread [Mod Warning - Post #1]

hmmm · 03-10-2020 12:14PM

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Sorry, who's arguing against vaccination? You making stuff up now?

Right

My whole point here is that running down to the nearest clinic with your sleeve rolled up to take the first jab that is rushed out to market won't be me...

Right. You forgot to add something like "I have taken vaccinations in the past, but this time....." etc. Another good one is "It takes years to develop vaccines, I'm going to wait until..." (some indeterminate time way off in the future)

What medicines cost and what they're sold for are two different things, you or I don't know what they will cost the state per dose!

Many of the manufacturers have already said they will produce at cost (AstraZeneca is one). The EU has already pre-signed purchase deals with those manufacturers - you can look it up yourself what the cost will be per dose.

Or if a vaccine with 70% effectiveness comes out do we borrow billions more to pay for it again?

4 million people by 10 euros a vaccine is 40 million. Even at 100 euros that's 400 million. Just stop with the "billions" stuff.

Chris_5339762 · 03-10-2020 12:21PM

Provided the Phase 3s go well I'll be first in line for the vaccines... banging the door down of the vaccine office.... we can't go on like this, its absolutely ridiculous and is destroying my mental health. Healthcare worker here, living with vulnerable 75 year old parents and no other option. I go to work, come home, say hello and sit in my bedroom for the evening, every evening. (Ok there is a computer with Doom and Untitled Goose Game on it but still).

The chances of the vaccine giving me worse effects than the disease are slim. And even if the first vaccines only protect the lungs and don't stop you spreading it, well I'll take that too as it'll protect me from the chance of a bad reaction if I got it.

I may splash out on an antibody test first, haven't decided yet. Other than that, give me the vaccine.

hmmm · 03-10-2020 12:22PM

Canada also starts a rolling review of the Oxford vaccine. I don't believe this indicates anything to do with effectiveness, but it does mean that AstraZeneca are getting the ball rolling on authorisations.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-canada-astrazeneca/canada-joins-countries-in-real-time-astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-review-idUSKBN26N2CA

timsey tiger · 03-10-2020 12:26PM

Tenzor07 wrote: »

So not free then, Governments = you and me the taxpayer.

Currently the state is €9.4 billion in deficit with one financial quarter to go, so expect another €1 billion to be added onto that.

So who's going to pay for it? No increase of income tax this budget but there has to be an emergency one when the first vaccine pops up for sale, how will it be funded if not by an increase in tax? Borrowing? Will the markets be as friendly in 5 months time and offer the state €billions in low cost loans while our economy is flat lined? The only thing propping up the state is the multinational export sectors which when you remove that you get a very scary real picture of how bad the economy is..

The vaccine program, won't be free, but it will more than pay for itself, by ending the pandemic a lot quicker than letting it play out. People should be paid to take the vaccine to ensure sufficent timely take up, esp. for the second dose if it is a two step approach. I think this would esp. help takeup with the teenage/young adult demographic.

Tenzor07 · 03-10-2020 12:35PM

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Provided the Phase 3s go well I'll be first in line for the vaccines... banging the door down of the vaccine office.... we can't go on like this, its absolutely ridiculous and is destroying my mental health. Healthcare worker here, living with vulnerable 75 year old parents and no other option. I go to work, come home, say hello and sit in my bedroom for the evening, every evening. (Ok there is a computer with Doom and Untitled Goose Game on it but still).
The chances of the vaccine giving me worse effects than the disease are slim. And even if the first vaccines only protect the lungs and don't stop you spreading it, well I'll take that too as it'll protect me from the chance of a bad reaction if I got it.
I may splash out on an antibody test first, haven't decided yet. Other than that, give me the vaccine.

As I've said, i've no problem with someone else being the first one to run down to the clinic with the sleeves rolled up...just won't be me.

None of us fully know how effective this vaccine will be, 50% at best?
The virus is so contagious that even vaccinated you can still be infected and asymptomatic...
The vaccine along with masks, social distance, increased hygiene will all have to be present to stop new cases.... It's not a miracle cure, cases will still happen daily amongst the vaccinated also..

And look after your mental health, being on Boards.ie and reading headlines like what the independant have published "Revealed: Rapid spread of deadly virus 'spiderweb'" will wreck you mentally if you take it all in...

MrMusician18 · 03-10-2020 12:36PM

The poll question needs to be changed. The loaded language is intended to skew the results.

Despite the OP stating that this is not to push an anti-vax agenda, the poll clearly intended to do that

Tenzor07 · 03-10-2020 12:40PM

hmmm wrote: »

Right
Right. You forgot to add something like "I have taken vaccinations in the past, but this time....." etc. Another good one is "It takes years to develop vaccines, I'm going to wait until..." (some indeterminate time way off in the future)
Many of the manufacturers have already said they will produce at cost (AstraZeneca is one). The EU has already pre-signed purchase deals with those manufacturers - you can look it up yourself what the cost will be per dose.
4 million people by 10 euros a vaccine is 40 million. Even at 100 euros that's 400 million. Just stop with the "billions" stuff.

I didn't forget anything and whatever vaccines I got as a child were proven and tested for over a decade at the time I received it..

Again for the last time, go ahead and be the first, the likelihood is that most of us won't get any vaccine until well into 2022/3 as first deliveries will be given to at risk groups, healthcare workers etc.

No one yet knows the cost so your guess is as good as any...we'll see.

Deeper Blue · 03-10-2020 12:43PM

*Gets excited at a load of new posts*

*Views said posts*

*Bangs head on wall*

timsey tiger · 03-10-2020 01:23PM

Tenzor07 wrote: »

I didn't forget anything and whatever vaccines I got as a child were proven and tested for over a decade at the time I received it..

Otherwise there is no way you have taken them right? :pac:

Scuid Mhór · 03-10-2020 01:26PM

Tenzor07 wrote: »

None of us fully know how effective this vaccine will be, 50% at best?

Do you really think a top tier pharmaceutical company's clinical trials and various country authorisation procedures wouldn't be able to glean some sort of statistical indicators as to the effectiveness of the vaccine before selling/buying/distributing it? You have literally no idea of what you are talking about, not even the basics of vaccine approval. Maybe you should leave the percentages to the epidemiologists, mathematicians and statisticians.

Scuid Mhór · 03-10-2020 01:30PM

Tenzor07 wrote: »

The virus is so contagious that even vaccinated you can still be infected and asymptomatic...

This is also not true. Not sure where you are getting your information but this is NOT how a vaccine works. It's amazing that you can make such claims about a vaccine that hasn't been developed yet, hasn't been distributed yet. I'm sure Pfizer and Co. would love to have you on the books as a consultant. You seem to know far more about the virus than they do.

The vaccine along with masks, social distance, increased hygiene will all have to be present to stop new cases.... It's not a miracle cure, cases will still happen daily amongst the vaccinated also..

Again, NOT TRUE. For one, you are talking about a vaccine that has yet to exist, but also, the point of vaccines is that infection doesn't occur. I think you need to get off whatever big Pharma facebook groups you are exposing yourself to.

And look after your mental health, being on Boards.ie and reading headlines like what the independant have published "Revealed: Rapid spread of deadly virus 'spiderweb'" will wreck you mentally if you take it all in...

What will wreck you mentally is not possessing any critical thinking faculties whatsoever, believing everything you read, and shamelessly posting misinformation about things you clearly do not understand.

irishgeo · 03-10-2020 01:46PM

Tenzor07 wrote: »

As I've said, i've no problem with someone else being the first one to run down to the clinic with the sleeves rolled up...just won't be me.

None of us fully know how effective this vaccine will be, 50% at best?
The virus is so contagious that even vaccinated you can still be infected and asymptomatic...
The vaccine along with masks, social distance, increased hygiene will all have to be present to stop new cases.... It's not a miracle cure, cases will still happen daily amongst the vaccinated also..

And look after your mental health, being on Boards.ie and reading headlines like what the independant have published "Revealed: Rapid spread of deadly virus 'spiderweb'" will wreck you mentally if you take it all in...

Reading your posts is wrecking me mentally. We get your not taking the vaccine so kindly stop posting about vaccines and run off and wait for the vaccine your willing to take when it arrives in 10 years time.

Chris_5339762 · 03-10-2020 01:48PM

Scuid Mhór wrote: »

This is also not true. Not sure where you are getting your information but this is NOT how a vaccine works. It's amazing that you can make such claims about a vaccine that hasn't been developed yet, hasn't been distributed yet. I'm sure Pfizer and Co. would love to have you on the books as a consultant. You seem to know far more about the virus than they do.

POSSIBLY true, actually. Early data states that the first vaccines will likely protect the lungs, but don't eliminate the virus completely from the upper airways, meaning you can still possibly spread it.

So basically the first lot of vaccines will PROBABLY only prevent severe COVID, but thats a massive leap in itself.

marno21 · 03-10-2020 01:52PM

The Hope seems to be at the minute that we’ll soon have a vaccine to prevent severe disease (covid-19) but in future we’ll have a vaccine to provide sterilising immunity against the virus (SARS-CoV-2)

Scuid Mhór · 03-10-2020 01:56PM

Fair enough, I remember reading that before but must have forgotten about it. Thanks for correcting me on it.

JTMan · 03-10-2020 02:00PM

The Times reports here (paywall) that the mass roll out of vaccine may take 3 months rather than the often predicted 6 months. Although many are still saying 6 months.

Here is now next year might look in the UK:
- Scientists working on the Oxford vaccine hope it could be approved by regulators by the end of 2020.
- Drive-through vaccination centres are being planned to cope with the huge logistical challenge of administering vaccines to tens of millions of people.
- The armed forces are also likely to be called in to help.
- To do this in three months would require 1.2 million a day and would mean it would reach a target of Easter, which next year is at the beginning of April.
- Ministers are planning to change the law to allow a vaccination programme to begin before the end of the year if UK regulators believe it to be safe, even before it is approved by the European Medicines Agency, to which Britain is bound until January.

Scuid Mhór · 03-10-2020 02:06PM

JTMan wrote: »

The Times reports here (paywall) that the mass roll out of vaccine may take 3 months rather than the often predicted 6 months. Although many are still saying 6 months.

Here is now next year might look in the UK:
- Scientists working on the Oxford vaccine hope it could be approved by regulators by the end of 2020.
- Drive-through vaccination centres are being planned to cope with the huge logistical challenge of administering vaccines to tens of millions of people.
- The armed forces are also likely to be called in to help.
- To do this in three months would require 1.2 million a day and would mean it would reach a target of Easter, which next year is at the beginning of April.
- Ministers are planning to change the law to allow a vaccination programme to begin before the end of the year if UK regulators believe it to be safe, even before it is approved by the European Medicines Agency, to which Britain is bound until January.

Interesting, all sounds good.

I imagine most countries will implement their military in the vaccination process. If you look at all of our testing sites here, I'm pretty sure they are mostly makeshift military bases. The more efficiently this can be done, the better.

JTMan · 03-10-2020 02:16PM

Scuid Mhór wrote: »

I imagine most countries will implement their military in the vaccination process.

Yeah, the US are planning to deploy their military too later this year / early next year to assist with vaccinations. Other countries have similar plans. Hopefully Ireland will deploy the army too.

speckle · 03-10-2020 02:24PM

Hmmzis wrote: »

Given the size of the trials anything not detected in phase 3 would be very rare. The long term ones can still be detected early if the monitoring of participants is thorough.
There are two critical time periods after vaccination where things can go bad:

1. Right after injection (1 sec - 4 days) - that's the allergies, fevers, pains, fainting, dizziness, etc.

2. At seroconversion (2 weeks - 3 months) - that's the auto-immune attacks in case there are self-antigens expressed in the vaccine (the self antigen would be present on the virus as well in any case) and the immune system wasn't able to recognize it as such. These are the side effects everyone means when they talk about long term adverse reactions. It's not that the reaction happens years down the line, it's that it will last a long time after seroconversion. So far from what I've gathered this particular issue has been only observed in a few versions of whole virus inactivated vaccines (flu in particular). I haven't come across any other types being impacted by this issue.

After phase 3 the rollout of any vaccine is still monitored and anything that looks out of line is investigated. That's to detect those really rare and difficult to see side effects. For example, if a side effect happens only in 1 out of 100,000 recipients then it's unlikely that even in a 60k phase 3 trial it will be seen, but once 100,000,000 people have had it it might be possible to see the effect above background levels.

Is this paraphrasing an article, or a direct quote if so would you have the link please? Thanks

Gael23 · 03-10-2020 02:37PM

Scuid Mhór wrote: »

Interesting, all sounds good.

I imagine most countries will implement their military in the vaccination process. If you look at all of our testing sites here, I'm pretty sure they are mostly makeshift military bases. The more efficiently this can be done, the better.

How would training them to do it work? Imagine that will take time.

You know by my posts that I’m all for a proven vaccine but I’d get it on the condition it leads to a return to normal life. If it’s a case restrictions remain in place even though we have a vaccine then I don’t see the point.

ShineOn7 · 03-10-2020 02:38PM

How soon till this treatment that Trump is on is available to the public? https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/02/health/trump-antibody-treatment.html

Dressoutlet · 03-10-2020 03:45PM

If people don't want to take the vaccine then that's on them, but, why do they insist on telling us. I mean if I commented constantly on a TTC forum that I didn't want kids I'd get a ban.

Widdensushi · 03-10-2020 03:51PM

ShineOn7 wrote: »

How soon till this treatment that Trump is on is available to the public? https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/02/health/trump-antibody-treatment.html

I presume trump has shares in that company

Stheno · 03-10-2020 03:51PM

ShineOn7 wrote: »

How soon till this treatment that Trump is on is available to the public? https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/02/health/trump-antibody-treatment.html

Its being rolled out in the UK

ShineOn7 · 03-10-2020 03:53PM

Stheno wrote: »

Its being rolled out in the UK

Amazing

When?

And will Ireland get it this year?

Stheno · 03-10-2020 03:56PM

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Amazing

When?

And will Ireland get it this year?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/03/uk-hospitals-already-using-trump-antibody-drug-says-expert

Part of the recovery trial. Several hundred patients in 4 hospitals have gotten it and its being rolled out to another 30/40 hospitals

ShineOn7 · 03-10-2020 04:11PM

Stheno wrote: »

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/03/uk-hospitals-already-using-trump-antibody-drug-says-expert

Part of the recovery trial. Several hundred patients in 4 hospitals have gotten it and its being rolled out to another 30/40 hospitals

Thanks for the link

This could be a game changer?

drunkmonkey · 03-10-2020 04:27PM

Widdensushi wrote: »

I presume trump has shares in that company

I don't believe it, something is up, he's gone from asymptomatic to taking an experimental treatment, I just can't believe they'd give that to a president.

Deeper Blue · 03-10-2020 04:34PM

If it's being given to the president of the US then treatment wise it's surely the front-runner

drunkmonkey · 03-10-2020 05:09PM

El Sueño wrote: »

If it's being given to the president of the US then treatment wise it's surely the front-runner

Or it's fake news, is it part of trials or just a potential cure for the symptoms, doesn't sound like a vaccine.

COVID-19: Vaccine/antidote and testing procedures Megathread [Mod Warning - Post #1]

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