Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings

walus · 03-10-2020 09:42AM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

-5 death's today.

This ****ing virus is rising the dead

That could be an early sign of the beginning of a new pandemic - the rise of zombies. I’m very concerned. The next 10 days will be crucial. I hope level 5 lockdown will work this time. I’m dead serious btw, pardon the pun.

walus · 03-10-2020 09:46AM

Assetbacked wrote: »

Great to see so many cases with -5 deaths. It is bolstering the data that shows this is not harmful except for extremely old and (not "or") vulnerable.

Here's some reassuring data screenshot. In particular I would highlight worldometer and the 1m deaths it has logged as against 34m cases. That puts the headline figure at around 2/3%. Now, I saw in an article today that the WHO estimates that 750m of the population in the world have been infected with covid. I think it is widely acceptable that the actual recorded positive cases are way understated and deaths are more likely to be overstated. If not, let's just take these figures as they are, that gives a death rate of 0.13% from covid right now (and it is ever getting closer to 0). Even without a vaccine it is looking way less harmful than the flu!

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/covid-19-world-in-for-a-hell-of-a-ride-in-coming-months-dr-mike-ryan-says-1.4370626?mode=amp

Quite believable estimates. The Germans suggested, based on their studies, that the death rate could be close to 0.25%. The more data, the lower the error rate and more accurate estimation.

DellyBelly · 03-10-2020 09:50AM

Gael23 wrote: »

Any hope of Dublin exiting level 3 any time soon?

I am hoping it does as supposed to be going away with a few friends to Wexford. Looking unlikely though

Zebra3 · 03-10-2020 10:01AM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

I have yet to hear NPHET explicitly advise anyone to loose weight as a matter of urgency, especially so for those over 65.

How often do our NPHET experts encourage people to go for a walk, a cycle or a jog?

bucketybuck · 03-10-2020 10:14AM

Grant Billions Bifocals wrote: »

They are ignoring guidelines which have been in acted to help protect everyone, why does that house or any one thing they are entitled to ignore these vitally important guidelines.

As you have no doubt seen the gardai will break up house gatherings so it is very obviously worth reporting.

I would also take photos and plaster them over social media and properly shame anyone with the selfishness and arrogance to have a house party or house gathering with multiple households, large numbers of people etc.

Aren't you that guy that travels into work despite being fully able to work from home?

Who are you to preach when you admit that you ignore guidelines yourself whenever it suits you?

Also, why do you ignore the guidelines regarding drink driving, aren't they there to protect other people?

Are you just a hypocrite?

03-10-2020 10:44AM

Nox, whatever about spying and calling the gardai on your neighbors, scummy as it is...these boasts of splashing peoples names on social media is dangerous stuff.
You never know who is , isn't, shouldn't be at those gatherings COVID aside. Your actions though motivated by publics safety in your opinion, would go beyond citizens duty. People have had their windows smashed, cars burnt and even legs broken for splashing information about the wrong people on social media.

I get that you like riling people up on this site, fair enough but this shyte talk of creating a one man campaign of name and shame against thy neighbor will end in tears. stupid talk altogether and you know it.

CruelSummer · 03-10-2020 10:44AM

Grant Billions Bifocals wrote: »

As has been said over and over. The number Older and vulnerable people is too high and they are too intertwined with the rest of society for it to work. Everyone has to work together and all restrictions, isolation, etc need to be for everyone not just the act risk groups.

This doesn’t make sense to me as currently the Restrictions apply to all. Obviously if you just apply to at risk groups it’s far less. I do wonder do these particular groups just not want to be left behind and so the All in this together mantra continues. It’s understandable to a degree but there are ways for these groups to get out and about while taking more precautions than others. It would also be ‘short term’ as the beloved lockdown people claim their approach would be, while the virus was circulating. Risk to these at risk groups would drop once virus transmission lessened in the general Population.
It would allow low risk groups to help sustain jobs, companies, hotels, and many other industries over the winter by doing a more targeted approach.

JRant · 03-10-2020 10:47AM

There's no chance Dublin gets below level 3 before November. There's a bank holiday coming up and if we know one thing about NPHET it's that they are very concerned around bank holidays. Can't have people doing anything other than exactly what they are told.

Then we get into the Christmas period and they will be extremely concerned. People might meet family or friends, sure ya can't be doing that.

People need to realise that the numbers don't matter for any of this. Hospitalization, ICU, cases, positive rate of infection, how many magpies land in the CMO's garden, are all equal valid reasons for NPHET to advise for more severe restrictions as they see fit.

JRant · 03-10-2020 10:51AM

CruelSummer wrote: »

This doesn’t make sense to me as currently the Restrictions apply to all. Obviously if you just apply to at risk groups it’s far less. I do wonder do these particular groups just not want to be left behind and so the All in this together mantra continues. It’s understandable to a degree but there are ways for these groups to get out and about while taking more precautions than others. It would also be ‘short term’ as the beloved lockdown people claim their approach would be, while the virus was circulating. Risk to these at risk groups would drop once virus transmission lessened in the general Population.
It would allow low risk groups to help sustain jobs, companies, hotels, and many other industries over the winter by doing a more targeted approach.

We all heard McConkey on Primetime during the week. They want to go for ZeroCovid. It's the only game in town as far as they are concerned. Only 3 "short" months of lockdown he reckons and we'll be free of this covid for ever more. Remember Harris saying they knew restrictions could only be used for short periods of time, well that was 7 months ago and we've barely been out of them in all that time.

_Kaiser_ · 03-10-2020 10:57AM

I am convinced that nox is just another paddygreen. Posting increasingly bizarre stuff just to provoke a response

Plumbthedepths · 03-10-2020 11:00AM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I am convinced that nox is just another paddygreen. Posting increasingly bizarre stuff just to provoke a response

Paddy is funny and is clearly pulling the piss. Nox is a troll. His posting history proves that. Imagine trying to argue drinking alcohol while driving is ok and appealling a ban for saying such.

bush · 03-10-2020 11:16AM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I am convinced that nox is just another paddygreen. Posting increasingly bizarre stuff just to provoke a response

If hes not a troll its a man losing his mind

_Kaiser_ · 03-10-2020 11:19AM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Paddy is funny and is clearly pulling the piss. Nox is a troll. His posting history proves that. Imagine trying to argue drinking alcohol while driving is ok and appealling a ban for saying such.

I've no time for either of them TBH. I don't get these attention-seeking "comedy" posters that litter threads at all. Keep that nonsense to AH where it belongs

Anyway...

Mandatory mask-wearing was due to expire on the 5th I read on one of these threads. Has it been extended does anyone know?

Ginger n Lemon · 03-10-2020 11:23AM

Penfailed wrote: »

We're in the middle of a pandemic. If the guards didn't do anything they'd have a lot of questions to answer. Five people arrested too.

The year was 2024, daily corona virus cases just reached all time low of 2 a day in Ireland, Penfailed was still posting on boards "we are in a middle of a pandemic" :rolleyes:

daft

Ginger n Lemon · 03-10-2020 11:24AM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I've no time for either of them TBH. I don't get these attention-seeking "comedy" posters that litter threads at all. Keep that nonsense to AH where it belongs

Anyway...

Mandatory mask-wearing was due to expire on the 5th I read on one of these threads. Has it been extended does anyone know?

How can they justify extending it? Cases went up since 10th of August.... from 5 - 15 a day, to 300 - 450 a day.

You ll see all the happy seals posting now "yeah but if masks werent introduced cases would be over 1000 a day now" :rolleyes:

robbiezero · 03-10-2020 11:31AM

DellyBelly wrote: »

I am hoping it does as supposed to be going away with a few friends to Wexford. Looking unlikely though

If it was me I'd go. I think you will be waiting quite a long while otherwise. Just dont lick the locals.

_Kaiser_ · 03-10-2020 11:38AM

DellyBelly wrote: »

I am hoping it does as supposed to be going away with a few friends to Wexford. Looking unlikely though

It's all only advisory anyway. Make your own decisions based on the people/"risk" involved

Was on the weekly zoom call with the lads last night myself and we're planning a get together in January. Not because we're worried about CV-19 but because it's probably the first weekend we're all free between now and then.

03-10-2020 11:56AM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I've no time for either of them TBH. I don't get these attention-seeking "comedy" posters that litter threads at all. Keep that nonsense to AH where it belongs

Anyway...

Mandatory mask-wearing was due to expire on the 5th I read on one of these threads. Has it been extended does anyone know?

I’m not attention seeking or a “comedy” poster I’m giving my real opinions the same ones I give in real life, in WhatsApp group arguments etc.

It’s exceptionally annoying to have you opinions dismissed as trolling etc even more so when the opinions are actually the mainstream, majority opinion and that of the experts. Like it’s you and a few others in here that are in the minority and bar one or two posters who are definitely trolling I don’t believe most are even if I do disagree with them.

acequion · 03-10-2020 12:11PM

Grant Billions Bifocals wrote: »

I’m not attention seeking or a “comedy” poster I’m giving my real opinions the same ones I give in real life, in WhatsApp group arguments etc.

It’s exceptionally annoying to have you opinions dismissed as trolling etc even more so when the opinions are actually the mainstream, majority opinion and that of the experts. Like it’s you and a few others in here that are in the minority and bar one or two posters who are definitely trolling I don’t believe most are even if I do disagree with them.

And how do you know for a fact that it's "mainstream majority opinion"? Oh yes it's mainstream, majority opinion in Govt, NPHET and mainstream media but they don't constitute the entire population of Ireland? There is increasing evidence that your mainstream, majority opinion is in fact propaganda which is being ignored by more and more people as time goes on as the evidence is showing. So your minority one or two [or 20] posters here may actually be expressing what many people are increasingly feeling.

And in many ways it's regrettable. You need people on board to be responsible and not take unnecessary risks and get this thing to manageable levels so that we can all live again. But the constant hysteria, scaremongering and finger wagging propaganda has turned people right off and has backfired spectacularly, especially among the young.

bush · 03-10-2020 12:26PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

How can they justify extending it? Cases went up since 10th of August.... from 5 - 15 a day, to 300 - 450 a day.

You ll see all the happy seals posting now "yeah but if masks werent introduced cases would be over 1000 a day now" :rolleyes:

You still see people posting "wear a mask ffs" on covid case articles as if the vast majority dont.

hynesie08 · 03-10-2020 12:40PM

Grant Billions Bifocals wrote: »

I’m not attention seeking or a “comedy” poster I’m giving my real opinions the same ones I give in real life, in WhatsApp group arguments etc.

It’s exceptionally annoying to have you opinions dismissed as trolling etc even more so when the opinions are actually the mainstream, majority opinion and that of the experts. Like it’s you and a few others in here that are in the minority and bar one or two posters who are definitely trolling I don’t believe most are even if I do disagree with them.

The vast majority do not want the gardai to be given power to enter private residences without a warrant

The vast majority do not want the army on the streets with water cannons

The vast majority don't want mandatory vaccines with jail for refusing.

The vast majority do not want another lockdown

The vast majority aren't salivating at the thought of 18 year olds being kicked out of college for no good reason (any expulsions yet)

That's not including your ridiculous views on drink driving, women's rights, freeloading off your parents, hygiene, your terrible parenting ideas and a thousand other ridiculous things you've said on here......

The day you speak for the vast majority is the day I welcome North Korea turning Ireland into a nuclear playground

_Kaiser_ · 03-10-2020 12:47PM

Grant Billions Bifocals wrote: »

I’m not attention seeking or a “comedy” poster I’m giving my real opinions the same ones I give in real life, in WhatsApp group arguments etc.

It’s exceptionally annoying to have you opinions dismissed as trolling etc even more so when the opinions are actually the mainstream, majority opinion and that of the experts. Like it’s you and a few others in here that are in the minority and bar one or two posters who are definitely trolling I don’t believe most are even if I do disagree with them.

At the very least you're misguided and overly influenced by the same social media you say you want to splash those you disagree with over.

As I and many others have said, the actual facts of the numbers are that this is a very mild disease for the vast majority of the population. That is not to say that some aren't at real risk, or that they shouldn't take steps to protect themselves and limit that risk, but this is not the "deadly virus" it's been positioned as in the media or Government/NPHET, or at least no more deadly than other seasonal viruses that impact - coincidentally enough - the same demographic.

Of course there will be some outliers and the media are doing a great job of finding these to maintain the fear, outrage and paranoia that you and others are expressing - but your anger is misdirected.. it should be to those same media outlets and "experts" that are blowing this out of all proportion vs the actual outcome of infections

And that is the fundamental issue. What was a drastic but entirely appropriate response in March when information was scarce and preparedness was lacking, has now become a complete overreaction since early summer, but now that we're entering colder months again and more are mixing again with the return to school and workplaces, the entirely predictable rise in cases (but still minimal deaths!) is being used to justify that overreaction. It could also be of course that many of the senior decision-makers are in that more vulnerable age category themselves so personal fear and bias is playing a part.

But they've gotten it wrong. That's clear from the numbers and the increasing disconnect of the message to what the general population are seeing for themselves every day, and it's why more are switching off and living their lives again. You can only cry wolf so often before people stop listening.

As a result, we are all are paying for the inability of those in charge to take a step back, calm themselves and re-evaluate the situation.

FintanMcluskey · 03-10-2020 01:03PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

At the very least you're misguided and overly influenced by the same social media you say you want to splash those you disagree with over.

As I and many others have said, the actual facts of the numbers are that this is a very mild disease for the vast majority of the population. That is not to say that some aren't at real risk, or that they shouldn't take steps to protect themselves and limit that risk, but this is not the "deadly virus" it's been positioned as in the media or Government/NPHET, or at least no more deadly than other seasonal viruses that impact - coincidentally enough - the same demographic.

Of course there will be some outliers and the media are doing a great job of finding these to maintain the fear, outrage and paranoia that you and others are expressing - but your anger is misdirected.. it should be to those same media outlets and "experts" that are blowing this out of all proportion vs the actual outcome of infections

And that is the fundamental issue. What was a drastic but entirely appropriate response in March when information was scarce and preparedness was lacking, has now become a complete overreaction since early summer, but now that we're entering colder months again and more are mixing again with the return to school and workplaces, the entirely predictable rise in cases (but still minimal deaths!) is being used to justify that overreaction. It could also be of course that many of the senior decision-makers are in that more vulnerable age category themselves so personal fear and bias is playing a part.

But they've gotten it wrong. That's clear from the numbers and the increasing disconnect of the message to what the general population are seeing for themselves every day, and it's why more are switching off and living their lives again. You can only cry wolf so often before people stop listening.

As a result, we are all are paying for the inability of those in charge to take a step back, calm themselves and re-evaluate the situation.

This is incredibly accurate.

The response in March was appropriate due to the lack of data.

Dr Feeley admitted he predicted Ireland would only have 15% of the required critical care beds, using the initial data in his calculations.

He now said he was wrong and its nowhere near as deadly as 1st thought.

Had to resign for sharing that opinion however

03-10-2020 01:11PM

Yet most or Europe and the world is dealing the with virus in a similar way.

Madrid gone into hard lockdown as of yesterday, UK have curfews and local lockdowns, major outbreak in wales in a hospital judged to be serious enough to declare the hospital a covid zone and am emergency hospital is having to be setup nearby for non-covid patients. That’s just a few tiny examples.

We need to stop the virus, we need to severely limit social interactions to do this. Many people are too stupid or selfish to do this themselves so just be forced by restrictions, the current restrictions are looking like they aren’t going far enough so we need to get stricter.

The longer we wait the worse it gets, lockdown hard very hard fast and it won’t take that long to get case numbers down very low and then stay locked down a little longer to get to zero.

Then when there is very very little virus around we can start to slowly step back through restrictions.

drunkmonkey · 03-10-2020 01:14PM

Is that you Sam?

hynesie08 · 03-10-2020 01:23PM

Grant Billions Bifocals wrote: »

Yet most or Europe and the world is dealing the with virus in a similar way.

Madrid gone into hard lockdown as of yesterday, UK have curfews and local lockdowns, major outbreak in wales in a hospital judged to be serious enough to declare the hospital a covid zone and am emergency hospital is having to be setup nearby for non-covid patients. That’s just a few tiny examples.

We need to stop the virus, we need to severely limit social interactions to do this. Many people are too stupid or selfish to do this themselves so just be forced by restrictions, the current restrictions are looking like they aren’t going far enough so we need to get stricter.

The longer we wait the worse it gets, lockdown hard very hard fast and it won’t take that long to get case numbers down very low and then stay locked down a little longer to get to zero.

Then when there is very very little virus around we can start to slowly step back through restrictions.

What a fantastic idea that *checks notes* wouldn't impact you at all.

**** the people who would suffer the most from that though, who needs to be able to pay rent.

_Kaiser_ · 03-10-2020 01:23PM

Grant Billions Bifocals wrote: »

Yet most or Europe and the world is dealing the with virus in a similar way.

Madrid gone into hard lockdown as of yesterday, UK have curfews and local lockdowns, major outbreak in wales in a hospital judged to be serious enough to declare the hospital a covid zone and am emergency hospital is having to be setup nearby for non-covid patients. That’s just a few tiny examples.

We need to stop the virus, we need to severely limit social interactions to do this. Many people are too stupid or selfish to do this themselves so just be forced by restrictions, the current restrictions are looking like they aren’t going far enough so we need to get stricter.

The longer we wait the worse it gets, lockdown hard very hard fast and it won’t take that long to get case numbers down very low and then stay locked down a little longer to get to zero.

Then when there is very very little virus around we can start to slowly step back through restrictions.

And then the virus will start rising again.. what then? More lockdown? (because it's worked so well previously!) :rolleyes: Lest you forget we've already tried this approach.

“The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”

There's also the "small" matters of the NI border, logistics and supply-chain, international law and treaty governing movement, and the "minor" issue that we do a LOT of business, trade, and travel with lots of different countries - are you planning to lock down until they get to Covid Zero too?

As I said, completely misguided.

stephenjmcd · 03-10-2020 01:24PM

Grant Billions Bifocals wrote: »

Yet most or Europe and the world is dealing the with virus in a similar way.

Madrid gone into hard lockdown as of yesterday, UK have curfews and local lockdowns, major outbreak in wales in a hospital judged to be serious enough to declare the hospital a covid zone and am emergency hospital is having to be setup nearby for non-covid patients. That’s just a few tiny examples.

We need to stop the virus, we need to severely limit social interactions to do this. Many people are too stupid or selfish to do this themselves so just be forced by restrictions, the current restrictions are looking like they aren’t going far enough so we need to get stricter.

The longer we wait the worse it gets, lockdown hard very hard fast and it won’t take that long to get case numbers down very low and then stay locked down a little longer to get to zero.

Then when there is very very little virus around we can start to slowly step back through restrictions.

Madrid doesn't have a hard lockdown, they've essentially the same restrictions as the UK, stay in your area and bars close and 10pm, then the same mixing in houses rule as us.

I fail to see how that is as you describe it a hard lockdown.

What you've described is essentially zero covid and that's just not going to happen no matter how much you want it to.

hynesie08 · 03-10-2020 01:26PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Madrid doesn't have a hard lockdown, they've essentially the same restrictions as the UK, stay in your area and bars close and 10pm, then the same mixing in houses rule as us.

I fail to see how that is as you describe it a hard lockdown.

What you've described is essentially zero covid and that's just not going to happen no matter how much you want it to.

If I've learned anything this last week, it's that nox doesn't read the news, only the headlines.

Penfailed · 03-10-2020 01:30PM

manniot2 wrote: »

Give the lockdown merchants what they want- level 5 for 9 months. **** it, no point arguing at this stage just accept it.

Give the open everything merchants what they want - no restrictions from now on. **** it, no point arguing at this stage just accept it.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings