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Do we need a new approach to Covid 19?

  • 30-09-2020 8:48pm
    #1
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭


    Given that large parts of Asia/Australia/New Zealand are living fairly normal lives and with extremely low levels of virus is Europe and the Americas approach sub optiminal in terms of quality of life for everyone (at risk and lower risk). In previous pandemics it ran its course and the at risk suffered.

    This pandemic seems to have the worst of both worlds virus still at high prevalence and everyone's life suffering.

    Asia I feel are showing they are now the top continent economically and scientifically and have taken over USA and Europe who are badly floundering in this pandemic.


«1

Comments

  • #2
    3xh
    Registered Users Posts: 594 ✭✭✭3xh


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Given that large parts of Asia/Australia/New Zealand are living fairly normal lives and with extremely low levels of virus is Europe and the Americas approach sub optiminal in terms of quality of life for everyone (at risk and lower risk). In previous pandemics it ran it course and the at risk suffered. This pandemic seems to have the worst of both worlds virus high prevalence and everyone's life suffering.
    Asia I feel are showing they are now the top contingent and have taken over USA and Europe who ate badly floundering.

    This question again. I’ll bite.

    Yes and no.

    Yes, get rid of NPHET as they currently operate. Plus that new in-between committee that is meant to package the advice better for Michael, Leo and Eamon to swallow and make the government govern.

    No. Let’s not be like Australia and NZ.


    Thankfully, despite all said above, we do appear to be aligning somewhat closer to a pan-European travel area.

    I’ve said it in other threads. Watch Dr. Feeley on prime time last night. If you half understand him by the end of it, you’re 90% of the way there to understanding how we’re being fed a pack of statistical lies by NPHET and co.


  • #3
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    3xh wrote: »
    This question again. I’ll bite.

    Yes and no.

    Yes, get rid of NPHET as they currently operate. Plus that new in-between committee that is meant to package the advice better for Michael, Leo and Eamon to swallow and make the government govern.

    No. Let’s not be like Australia and NZ.


    Thankfully, despite all said above, we do appear to be aligning somewhat closer to a pan-European travel area.

    I’ve said it in other threads. Watch Dr. Feeley on prime time last night. If you half understand him by the end of it, you’re 90% of the way there to understanding how we’re being fed a pack of statistical lies by NPHET and co.

    My point is I listened to Dr Feeley and some points were correct. I agreed with him saying the country is depressed socially which is something you can't quantify. Alot of people on both sides of the fence (stay at homers/open up society) are simply fed up with this. Point is current strategy is pleasing nobody. I have to say the only country i can see that is doing the live with covid policy successfully in europe seems to be Germany. We certainly are not able for it. Our testing regime and hospitals are simply not adequate to live with covid policy. HSE then uses media to frighten population due to their own inadequacies. You cant expect a 20 something to socially distance for 2 years. It's the opposite of what they should be doing and is probably bad for their health. We need a change in direction and I have to agree with Sam McConkey in that discussion.


  • #4
    wellwhynot
    Registered Users Posts: 280 ✭✭wellwhynot


    Yes we do. Of course we do.

    The death rates since June in no way justify the complete over reaction by the government/NPHET.

    Many, many more people will die from delayed screening or treatment than Covid. Hundreds of thousands will be unemployed by January. Who will pay for it all?

    I fear the government have gone too far down the NPHET restriction rabbit hole to turn back now.

    All working age people who are not vulnerable should be back at work in their offices. We should only be testing the sick. All the billions saved on testing snotty noses and PUP should be diverted to:

    1. Increasing hospital capacity. Shocked they are only thinking of this now despite being given a blank cheque and 6 months of empty hospitals.

    2. Rapid testing for all medical staff. Extra PPE/supports for nursing homes.

    3. A national advertising campaign encouraging people to maintain a healthy BMI, eat better, take Vitamin D, Zinc and C to boost immune system.

    4. Option for online schooling for vulnerable children/vulnerable parents.

    5. Supports for elderly in the community. Strictly adhered to shopping and exercise times. A supply of PPE for visitors. Home help once or twice a week.

    All that would probably cost a quarter of what we will spend keeping healthy people at home and closing businesses this winter.


  • #5
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    wellwhynot wrote: »
    Yes we do. Of course we do.

    The death rates since June in no way justify the complete over reaction by the government/NPHET.

    Many, many more people will die from delayed screening or treatment than Covid. Hundreds of thousands will be unemployed by January. Who will pay for it all?

    I fear the government have gone too far down the NPHET restriction rabbit hole to turn back now.

    All working age people who are not vulnerable should be back at work in their offices. We should only be testing the sick. All the billions saved on testing snotty noses and PUP should be diverted to:

    1. Increasing hospital capacity. Shocked they are only thinking of this now despite being given a blank cheque and 6 months of empty hospitals.

    2. Rapid testing for all medical staff. Extra PPE/supports for nursing homes.

    3. A national advertising campaign encouraging people to maintain a healthy BMI, eat better, take Vitamin D, Zinc and C to boost immune system.

    4. Option for online schooling for vulnerable children/vulnerable parents.

    5. Supports for elderly in the community. Strictly adhered to shopping and exercise times. A supply of PPE for visitors. Home help once or twice a week.

    All that would probably cost a quarter of what we will spend keeping healthy people at home and closing businesses this winter.

    Some of your points are good especially 3. Do we have the testing and hospital capacity to follow your strategy in full. ICU staff are hard to come by. It's not simply a case of buying a ventilator.


  • #6
    wellwhynot
    Registered Users Posts: 280 ✭✭wellwhynot


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Point is do we have the testing and hospital capacity to follow your strategy. ICU staff are hard to come by. It's not simply a case of buying a ventilator.

    I know that but they had 6 months and 73,000 applications from health staff answering Ireland’s call. I am sure some were ICU staff. Correct me if I am wrong but I believe they hired only a hundred or so.

    The hospitals were empty. They were given every resource they asked for but once again the bar for the health service is so low we just accept it. Sweden managed to double their ICU capacity in a couple of months.


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  • #7
    DaSilva
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 695 ✭✭✭DaSilva


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Given that large parts of Asia/Australia/New Zealand are living fairly normal lives and with extremely low levels of virus is Europe and the Americas approach sub optiminal in terms of quality of life for everyone (at risk and lower risk). In previous pandemics it ran its course and the at risk suffered.

    This pandemic seems to have the worst of both worlds virus still at high prevalence and everyone's life suffering.

    I agree, I want to first say that I do not envy any politicians role at the moment and I don't lay any criticism at any politician personally. Having said that, I think what is ultimately underlying our strategy, is minimizing political risk. It wasn't thought to be possible before this pandemic, but it does seem like intense restrictions can eradicate a respiratory virus, so we could pursue a covid free island strategy, but it of course comes with huge political, social and economic costs. Alternatively we could take a much more relaxed restrictions approach but again, this would carry significant risks. I'm personally in favour of either of those over what we are doing right now, though who knows, maybe this middle of the road approach will turn out to have been the best when its all finally settled.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Asia I feel are showing they are now the top continent economically and scientifically and have taken over USA and Europe who are badly floundering in this pandemic.

    Asia is definitely on its way to being on top economically, but I'm not so sure about scientifically. I think if anything, what this crisis has demonstrated, is that the USA and Europe are very weak politically (internally that is, not sure on the global geopolitics).

    Our society is very arrogant about politics, there is constant derision of opposing views, which only furthers the divide. The anti mask protesters are not idiots, the anti lockdown people are not heartless and the pro restrictions people are not panicked fascists.


  • #8
    NegativeCreep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,351 ✭✭✭NegativeCreep


    wellwhynot wrote: »
    Yes we do. Of course we do.

    The death rates since June in no way justify the complete over reaction by the government/NPHET.

    Many, many more people will die from delayed screening or treatment than Covid. Hundreds of thousands will be unemployed by January. Who will pay for it all?

    I fear the government have gone too far down the NPHET restriction rabbit hole to turn back now.

    All working age people who are not vulnerable should be back at work in their offices. We should only be testing the sick. All the billions saved on testing snotty noses and PUP should be diverted to:

    1. Increasing hospital capacity. Shocked they are only thinking of this now despite being given a blank cheque and 6 months of empty hospitals.

    2. Rapid testing for all medical staff. Extra PPE/supports for nursing homes.

    3. A national advertising campaign encouraging people to maintain a healthy BMI, eat better, take Vitamin D, Zinc and C to boost immune system.

    4. Option for online schooling for vulnerable children/vulnerable parents.

    5. Supports for elderly in the community. Strictly adhered to shopping and exercise times. A supply of PPE for visitors. Home help once or twice a week.

    All that would probably cost a quarter of what we will spend keeping healthy people at home and closing businesses this winter.

    It’s madness that nothing has been done to increase hospital capacity in 6 months. Now we’re shutting places down because there’s a figure in the high teens of people in ICU. It’s madness for a country as developed as ourselves


  • #9
    wellwhynot
    Registered Users Posts: 280 ✭✭wellwhynot


    On the testing capacity yes we would if we stopped testing the 68,000 or so per week that are not sick. I know some of the private hospitals offer Covid tests with a 2 - 3 hour turnaround. I am sure there is even faster technology out there.


  • #10
    Assetbacked
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,969 ✭✭✭Assetbacked


    We need to cut the government advertising budget for its covid news as a start. So many idiots follow the government narrative as told by the sponsored media articles hook, line and sinker.

    There are large portions of non-vulnerable people terrified of getting covid as if it is actually something they should be worried about. This is completely unhelpful to have so many people fearful as they will follow blindly what they are told as a result.


  • #11
    wellwhynot
    Registered Users Posts: 280 ✭✭wellwhynot


    Assetbacked wrote: »
    We need to cut the government advertising budget for its covid news as a start. So many idiots follow the government narrative as told by the sponsored media articles hook, line and sinker.

    There are large portions of non-vulnerable people terrified of getting covid as if it is actually something they should be worried about. This is completely unhelpful to have so many people fearful as they will follow blindly what they are told as a result.

    Couldn’t agree more. Literally you would need to have landed from the moon not to know Covid is in Ireland. We don’t need 5 minute radio, bus shelter, and full page press adverts ad nauseam. The language/ tone is so patronising and infantilising.

    Consumer confidence is shot with many healthy people afraid to leave their homes even within the guidelines. NPHET have such a myopic view but the blame clearly lies with the government who should have some economists in the room before blindly accepting every new restriction suggested.


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  • #12
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Assetbacked wrote: »
    We need to cut the government advertising budget for its covid news as a start. So many idiots follow the government narrative as told by the sponsored media articles hook, line and sinker.

    There are large portions of non-vulnerable people terrified of getting covid as if it is actually something they should be worried about. This is completely unhelpful to have so many people fearful as they will follow blindly what they are told as a result.

    On paper I'm non vulnerable. 40, not overweight, exercise regularly (member of running club 30 years), reasonable diet, no known underlying conditions and I am fearful of picking this up. Rightly or wrongly listening to hse media I am anxious of this and of passing it on to others. Never worried about it seriously at all until the lockdown after St Patrick's Day. Cant put the genie back into the bottle now. It's just the media language at the moment. It's like it could be you in icu next narrative.


  • #13
    3xh
    Registered Users Posts: 594 ✭✭✭3xh


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Never worried about it seriously at all until the lockdown after St Patrick's Day.

    Does this not prove how potent media coverage is?

    What made you worried from St. Patrick’s Day onwards? You couldn’t have been genned up about it then so was it the Varadkar speech, the media clips of mass death swarming over Northern Italy, our own case numbers increasing which we’ve subsequently found out aren’t 100% accurate anyway?

    Edited to add; I see you edited your own post too while I was responding. The very latter part of your post does indeed prove the point in fact!


  • #14
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    3xh wrote: »
    Does this not prove how potent media coverage is?

    What made you worried from St. Patrick’s Day onwards? You couldn’t have been genned up about it then so was it the Varadkar speech, the media clips of mass death swarming over Northern Italy, our own case numbers increasing which we’ve subsequently found out aren’t 100% accurate anyway?

    All of the above. I'm trying to educate myself and know deep inside the government is over egging it to most of the population and especially anyone under 30 but it's very hard when your own government tells you everyone is at risk. Cant understand why government think a 25 year old is going to socially distance for 2 years. It's beggars belief. That would hurt their health and well being far more than any virus.


  • #15
    wellwhynot
    Registered Users Posts: 280 ✭✭wellwhynot


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    On paper I'm non vulnerable. 40, not overweight, exercise regularly (member of running club 30 years), reasonable diet, no known underlying conditions and I am fearful of picking this up. Rightly or wrongly listening to hse media I am anxious of this and of passing it on to others. Never worried about it seriously at all until the lockdown after St Patrick's Day. Cant put the genie back into the bottle now. It's just the media language at the moment. It's like it could be you in icu next narrative.

    Ronan Glynn when asked by the Covid Committee today at the Oireachtas about the median age range said he didn’t have it to hand but ‘late 80’s.’ He said about 90% of the deaths had underlying conditions. Make sure you always take Vitamin D (4000iu minimum). Zinc and Vit C if you have a cold. Most likely you would be one of the many with no symptoms.


  • #16
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    wellwhynot wrote: »
    Ronan Glynn when asked by the Covid Committee today at the Oireachtas about the median age range said he didn’t have it to hand but ‘late 80’s.’ He said about 90% of the deaths had underlying conditions. Make sure you always take Vitamin D (4000iu minimum). Zinc and Vit C if you have a cold. Most likely you would be one of the many with no symptoms.

    Yes taking vitamin D supplements. Especially now going into winter. Thank you.


  • #17
    3xh
    Registered Users Posts: 594 ✭✭✭3xh


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    All of the above. I'm trying to educate myself and know deep inside the government is over egging it to most of the population and especially anyone under 30 but it's very hard when your own government tells you everyone is at risk.

    The message is easier to convey when they use the ‘community spirit’ argument. Harder to argue against.

    If they started carving up society into groups like, ‘you’re 30, fit, have a job, off you go’ and ‘you’re 60, fat, previous heart problems, stay at home and don’t venture out, no bingo, no pints allowed we’ll be watching’ their message wouldn’t have been so effective to date.

    It’s easier to corral everyone by using the tactic of the virus affects everybody, it knows no boundaries, it doesn’t care about your age, if you’re a single parent to a child or you’re your sick father’s carer etc. it’ll get you, don’t take that risk......

    It’s clearly worked.

    It’s taken the admirable bravery of Dr. Feeley to crack this fear, uncertainty and doubt mantra wide open for the benefit of us all. He was ridiculed, distanced by his employer, mock by many in the media.

    All I can say is well done for at least openly questioning it all and admitting you believed much of it. I did too. But looking at my post history you wouldn’t agree with that. How could anyone say in March it’s fine after what we began to see ramp up from January onwards?

    I joined up here in August after reading the constant fear mongering and complete misinterpretation of statistics etc.

    Keep researching. Good luck.


  • #18
    anais
    Registered Users Posts: 123 ✭✭anais


    Well....... In my 40s,a marathon runner and mind myself. I was terrified. Until I was back into the actual classroom. (I'm a Primary school teacher). Either I've a magic cloak repelling this virus in my tiny prefab with 25 kids, non masked and minimal social distancing.... Or I'm missing something really important. Looking at the kiddies, their social and educational development is paramount and rightly so. They're so happy and adjusted, making great progress. Soooo, the gov are either risking teachers lives or it really isn't so terribly awful as the media is portraying....I just wish there was better communication as the stress levels amongst staff are enormous


  • #19
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    anais wrote: »
    Well....... In my 40s,a marathon runner and mind myself. I was terrified. Until I was back into the actual classroom. (I'm a Primary school teacher). Either I've a magic cloak repelling this virus in my tiny prefab with 25 kids, non masked and minimal social distancing.... Or I'm missing something really important. Looking at the kiddies, their social and educational development is paramount and rightly so. They're so happy and adjusted, making great progress. Soooo, the gov are either risking teachers lives or it really isn't so terribly awful as the media is portraying....I just wish there was better communication as the stress levels amongst staff are enormous

    Yes marathon runner also. I ran Dublin last three years and doing virtual this year which is pure :( compared to a real one.


  • #20
    anais
    Registered Users Posts: 123 ✭✭anais


    Woody79 wrote:
    Yes marathon runner also. I ran Dublin last three years and doing virtual this year which is pure compared to a real one.

    Twas to be my '5 in a row' marathon. Sigh. Can just about muster enough energy to do the half on the day. Fair play for doing the training. No joke without a 'real' race. Next year!!!


  • #21
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    anais wrote: »
    Twas to be my '5 in a row' marathon. Sigh. Can just about muster enough energy to do the half on the day. Fair play for doing the training. No joke without a 'real' race. Next year!!!

    Training not going as well as usual. Did manage 55 miles last week which was good. Not so good this week thus far.


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  • #22
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    DaSilva wrote: »
    I agree, I want to first say that I do not envy any politicians role at the moment and I don't lay any criticism at any politician personally. Having said that, I think what is ultimately underlying our strategy, is minimizing political risk. It wasn't thought to be possible before this pandemic, but it does seem like intense restrictions can eradicate a respiratory virus, so we could pursue a covid free island strategy, but it of course comes with huge political, social and economic costs. Alternatively we could take a much more relaxed restrictions approach but again, this would carry significant risks. I'm personally in favour of either of those over what we are doing right now, though who knows, maybe this middle of the road approach will turn out to have been the best when its all finally settled.



    Asia is definitely on its way to being on top economically, but I'm not so sure about scientifically. I think if anything, what this crisis has demonstrated, is that the USA and Europe are very weak politically (internally that is, not sure on the global geopolitics).

    Our society is very arrogant about politics, there is constant derision of opposing views, which only furthers the divide. The anti mask protesters are not idiots, the anti lockdown people are not heartless and the pro restrictions people are not panicked fascists.

    This virus has exposed the weaknesses in our society. I think unfortunately we will be waiting until science catches up worldwide before this calms.


  • #23
    The_Brood
    Closed Accounts Posts: 838 ✭✭✭The_Brood


    A million times yes.

    2-3 weeks of total army China style lockdown to kill the virus. It has worked for China.

    Or

    Swedish approach, we learn to live with it.

    One or the other.

    Just not anymore of this endless half arsed lockdown that is destroying all our lives, and is clearly not working with cases continuing to rise.


  • #24
    Real Donald Trump
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,708 ✭✭✭Real Donald Trump


    The_Brood wrote: »
    A million times yes.

    2-3 weeks of total army China style lockdown to kill the virus. It has worked for China.

    Or

    Swedish approach, we learn to live with it.

    One or the other.

    Just not anymore of this endless half arsed lockdown that is destroying all our lives, and is clearly not working with cases continuing to rise.

    Chinese method, with the airports open :pac:


  • #25
    NegativeCreep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,351 ✭✭✭NegativeCreep


    The_Brood wrote: »
    A million times yes.

    2-3 weeks of total army China style lockdown to kill the virus. It has worked for China.

    Or

    Swedish approach, we learn to live with it.

    One or the other.

    Just not anymore of this endless half arsed lockdown that is destroying all our lives, and is clearly not working with cases continuing to rise.

    I kind of agree. As much as I hate restrictions, we either lock down or we don’t. And open up and get on with it if not.


  • #26
    Real Donald Trump
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,708 ✭✭✭Real Donald Trump


    NegativeCreep wrote: »
    I kind of agree. As much as I hate restrictions, we either lock down or we don’t. And open up and get on with it if not.

    We could lockdown for months on end, but it would still be around. New Zealand is proof of that. Lockdowns aren't the answer, and people need to realise and accept that.


  • #27
    patnor1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,181 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    The_Brood wrote: »
    A million times yes.

    2-3 weeks of total army China style lockdown to kill the virus. It has worked for China.

    Or

    Swedish approach, we learn to live with it.

    One or the other.

    Just not anymore of this endless half arsed lockdown that is destroying all our lives, and is clearly not working with cases continuing to rise.

    Nope. Chinese method is not applicable. First off they only quarantined some parts of the country. Not whole actually small portion of it despite virus being in the wild anyway. Secondly they are not virus free. Not a hope for that. They just stop publish numbers and that is that.


  • #28
    ThunbergsAreGo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭ThunbergsAreGo


    patnor1011 wrote: »
    Nope. Chinese method is not applicable. First off they only quarantined some parts of the country. Not whole actually small portion of it despite virus being in the wild anyway. Secondly they are not virus free. Not a hope for that. They just stop publish numbers and that is that.

    Then if the virus is as deadly as we are told why aren't there coffins in the streets or queues for crematoriums, both things we were told did/would happen?

    It would actually helped if the government published a factual explanation of what they know about the virus and what it doesn't know. There are so msny contradictions in the whole thing, from the WHO downwards


  • #29
    ShineOn7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,550 ✭✭✭ShineOn7


    3xh wrote: »
    I’ve said it in other threads. Watch Dr. Feeley on prime time last night. If you half understand him by the end of it, you’re 90% of the way there to understanding how we’re being fed a pack of statistical lies by NPHET and co.

    Can this be viewed anywhere apart from the RTE Player?

    The amount of Ads on that thing is disgusting

    Cheers


  • #30
    froog
    Registered Users Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭froog


    The_Brood wrote: »
    A million times yes.

    2-3 weeks of total army China style lockdown to kill the virus. It has worked for China.

    Or

    Swedish approach, we learn to live with it.

    One or the other.

    Just not anymore of this endless half arsed lockdown that is destroying all our lives, and is clearly not working with cases continuing to rise.

    Ah yes the chinese method. Welding people into apartment blocks and hauling away people in vans. No thanks.


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  • #31
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,830 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    We cannot take a no covid approach.

    We share 300 uncontrolled miles of a border with a different juristiction with a differing covid approach.

    It simply cannot work.

    New Zealand closed down a whole city due to FOUR cases.

    We'd never be out of lockdown if we tried the no covid approach


  • #32
    3xh
    Registered Users Posts: 594 ✭✭✭3xh


    ShineOn7 wrote: »
    Can this be viewed anywhere apart from the RTE Player?

    The amount of Ads on that thing is disgusting

    Cheers

    https://youtu.be/zKzQ-WqnZ50

    I just did a search on YouTube, it’s only up a few hours. I never heard of Irish Citizens Journal.


  • #33
    robbiezero
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,475 ✭✭✭robbiezero


    Deleted User wrote: »
    On paper I'm non vulnerable. 40, not overweight, exercise regularly (member of running club 30 years), reasonable diet, no known underlying conditions and I am fearful of picking this up. Rightly or wrongly listening to hse media I am anxious of this and of passing it on to others. Never worried about it seriously at all until the lockdown after St Patrick's Day. Cant put the genie back into the bottle now. It's just the media language at the moment. It's like it could be you in icu next narrative.

    I don't get this at all. Am in 40s also, reasonably fit.
    I don't worry much about stuff, but if I was to worry about the stuff that could kill me or do serious damage, Covid would be well down the list.

    I'd eat Covid for breakfast compared to something like pancreatic cancer or getting killed or badly maimed in a car crash etc


  • #34
    Tombo2001
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,709 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    robbiezero wrote: »
    I don't get this at all. Am in 40s also, reasonably fit.
    I don't worry much about stuff, but if I was to worry about the stuff that could kill me or do serious damage, Covid would be well down the list.

    I'd eat Covid for breakfast compared to something like pancreatic cancer or getting killed or badly maimed in a car crash etc

    I think for a lot of people, its the passing it on to others that worries them. Specifically elderly parents. It would be difficult to live with.


  • #35
    robbiezero
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,475 ✭✭✭robbiezero


    Tombo2001 wrote: »
    I think for a lot of people, its the passing it on to others that worries them. Specifically elderly parents. It would be difficult to live with.

    I can certainly understand that. But the poster I replied to was specifically concerned for his own health.


  • #36
    ThunbergsAreGo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭ThunbergsAreGo


    Tombo2001 wrote: »
    I think for a lot of people, its the passing it on to others that worries them. Specifically elderly parents. It would be difficult to live with.

    That is how I feel about it, but am not going to let it terrify me.

    There are many things I can pass onto my parents that will cause bother including the cold and the flu, both of which can develop into something more deadly by weakening an immune system.


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  • #37
    prunudo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,626 ✭✭✭prunudo


    3xh wrote: »
    https://youtu.be/zKzQ-WqnZ50

    I just did a search on YouTube, it’s only up a few hours. I never heard of Irish Citizens Journal.

    Thanks for sharing, I wouldn't say anybody won that debate but good to see his points being aired. And even better to see McConkeys smile being wiped off his smug face, he's had an unchallenged voice for far too long.


  • #38
    Tombo2001
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,709 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    prunudo wrote: »
    Thanks for sharing, I wouldn't say anybody won that debate but good to see his points being aired. And even better to see McConkeys smile being wiped off his smug face, he's had an unchallenged voice for far too long.

    Picked up an old newspaper from July when everything looked calm, would be interesting to see McConkey being brought to task on his comments back then.

    The thing with him is that he is making 'point in time' comments constantly, but is not held to account when he is wrong....in fact nobody really notices when he is wrong - as it takes two or three months for him to be proven wrong, and so he continues to hold court.

    Very similar actually to what David McWilliams has been doing for decades now in the field of economic


  • #39
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Tombo2001 wrote: »
    Picked up an old newspaper from July when everything looked calm, would be interesting to see McConkey being brought to task on his comments back then.

    The thing with him is that he is making 'point in time' comments constantly, but is not held to account when he is wrong....in fact nobody really notices when he is wrong - as it takes two or three months for him to be proven wrong, and so he continues to hold court.

    Very similar actually to what David McWilliams has been doing for decades now in the field of economic

    What has McConkey said that has not come true?

    He said in July we should test at borders to become a Vietnam/Australia. We didn't and numbers rose. In July 20 per cent of cases were imported. Now probably less than 1 per cent. If government don't follow his advice how has he proven to be wrong?


  • #40
    Ginger n Lemon
    Registered Users Posts: 3,447 ✭✭✭Ginger n Lemon


    We need to stop reporting daily numbers. Its depressing, useless and is absolute madness.

    They need to stop classifying people who went to hospitals with broken legs as covid hospitalizations if they test positive for covid once in the hospital...

    NPHET needs to go. In the name "Emergency" team. Whats the emergency? is there something we dont know?? Is there an emergency?? Are hundreds dying per day? not even hundreds dying per quarter ......


  • #41
    Marty Bird
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,976 ✭✭✭Marty Bird


    wellwhynot wrote: »
    Yes we do. Of course we do.

    The death rates since June in no way justify the complete over reaction by the government/NPHET.

    Many, many more people will die from delayed screening or treatment than Covid. Hundreds of thousands will be unemployed by January. Who will pay for it all?

    I fear the government have gone too far down the NPHET restriction rabbit hole to turn back now.

    All working age people who are not vulnerable should be back at work in their offices. We should only be testing the sick. All the billions saved on testing snotty noses and PUP should be diverted to:

    1. Increasing hospital capacity. Shocked they are only thinking of this now despite being given a blank cheque and 6 months of empty hospitals.

    2. Rapid testing for all medical staff. Extra PPE/supports for nursing homes.

    3. A national advertising campaign encouraging people to maintain a healthy BMI, eat better, take Vitamin D, Zinc and C to boost immune system.

    4. Option for online schooling for vulnerable children/vulnerable parents.

    5. Supports for elderly in the community. Strictly adhered to shopping and exercise times. A supply of PPE for visitors. Home help once or twice a week.

    All that would probably cost a quarter of what we will spend keeping healthy people at home and closing businesses this winter.

    Excellent post.

    🌞6.02kWp⚡️3.01kWp South/East⚡️3.01kWp West



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  • #42
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    wellwhynot wrote: »
    ...............
    I fear the government have gone too far down the NPHET restriction rabbit hole to turn back now. ..........


    You then have folk reckoning the schools should all close and the goverment are putting teachers at risk by keeping them open .........

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058101870

    Loads of folk reckon we are living too much currently, frightening.


  • #43
    wellwhynot
    Registered Users Posts: 280 ✭✭wellwhynot


    Augeo wrote: »
    You then have folk reckoning the schools should all close and the goverment are putting teachers at risk by keeping them open .........

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058101870

    Loads of folk reckon we are living too much currently, frightening.

    The government now reaps what is sows. Their multi-million euro advertising campaign designed to provoke fear worked. It actually scared lots of healthy people. Those people want to close the schools and stay at home forever. None of us saw that coming...

    You have to wonder who is advising them. Where are the PR companies in all of this? NPHET’s job is to advise yet for all intents and purposes they are in the spotlight running the country. The lack of critical thinking by the government and their advisors is astounding.


  • #44
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,083 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    sydthebeat wrote: »

    New Zealand closed down a whole city due to FOUR cases.

    We'd never be out of lockdown if we tried the no covid approach

    They got 4 new cases from out of the blue after 100 days of no community transmission. And they became 159+ cases very quickly.

    And even before that happened anyone going in to NZ has to spend two weeks in quarrentine-prision ( and to pay for it themselves on many cases) - and this will continue for the foreseeable future.

    Cannot see that working here.


  • #45
    Russman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,914 ✭✭✭Russman


    Deleted User wrote: »
    What has McConkey said that has not come true?

    He said in July we should test at borders to become a Vietnam/Australia. We didn't and numbers rose. In July 20 per cent of cases were imported. Now probably less than 1 per cent. If government don't follow his advice how has he proven to be wrong?

    Its the old shoot the messenger syndrome. Some people don't like the message. They think there's a way back to where we were in January in the short term.


  • #46
    funnydoggy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,065 ✭✭✭funnydoggy


    I was terrified until I went back to work and that was the middle of June. Now I know there is a risk of contracting it and I'm dealing with a few hundred customers each day in retail. Precautions are taken but tbh the fear of the virus is 90% gone. Caution is still taken but due to the messaging at the start, I was freaked. I'm 28 so I'm not in a high risk category but with the messaging I felt as if I was.

    If there's one thing that should change is the message. Let's tell certain people that they will be ok. Let's tell others to take caution. Let's highlight some positives as they come. There is too much doom and gloom, and there are too many blanket restrictions, IMO


  • #47
    funnydoggy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,065 ✭✭✭funnydoggy


    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/t%C3%A1naiste-more-than-covid-19-case-numbers-should-be-looked-at-to-decide-restrictions-1.4369546

    I agree with Leo.


  • #48
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    funnydoggy wrote: »
    I was terrified until I went back to work and that was the middle of June. Now I know there is a risk of contracting it and I'm dealing with a few hundred customers each day in retail. Precautions are taken but tbh the fear of the virus is 90% gone. Caution is still taken but due to the messaging at the start, I was freaked. I'm 28 so I'm not in a high risk category but with the messaging I felt as if I was............

    I don't think that was due to any messaging, back in April and May we were all doing our grocery shopping without masks being compulsory ............. I don't think the majority of folk in your age group felt the way you did, I know I didn't and I'm a decade older.


  • #49
    jd1983
    Registered Users Posts: 186 ✭✭jd1983


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    What has McConkey said that has not come true?

    In July 20 per cent of cases were imported.

    Have you got a source for this?


  • #50
    Dempo1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,021 ✭✭✭✭Dempo1


    It's clear Governments new approach is to quietly ignore it I suspect, yesterday's shocking numbers and deaths got at best a whimper of a response, apparently having more than 6 vistors to your home will make all the difference FFS.

    The approach to date is clearly not working and it will be very, very interesting what Tony Houlihans return on Monday will result in. I've gotten a sense Government were not taking Ronan Glynn seriously at all and the likes of Leo and his FG coherts cynical and dispicable undermining of NPHET over the past 3 months in particular will I hope bite them in the ass.

    Is maith an scáthán súil charad.




  • #51
    jd1983
    Registered Users Posts: 186 ✭✭jd1983


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    What has McConkey said that has not come true?

    He said in July we should test at borders to become a Vietnam/Australia. We didn't and numbers rose. In July 20 per cent of cases were imported.

    Only 3% came from international travel in July. McConkey and the other zero covid fantatists have been consistently wrong about stuff like this.

    https://www.thejournal.ie/green-list-travel-5154422-Jul2020/?amp=1


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