Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings

FintanMcluskey · 29-09-2020 11:04PM

road_high wrote: »

The PC snowflakes won’t like the fact Dr Feeley spelled out obesity and Covid!!

Obesity is the elephant in the room.

The HSE only accounts a BMI of above 40 as obese.

20% of ICU admissions in Ireland were at least above 40 BMI.

Others countries count a BMI of 30 as obese, so exactly what percentage were obese in ICU in Ireland??

Knowing 86% were fit young lads Im struggling to do the maths

road_high · 29-09-2020 11:09PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Obesity is the elephant in the room.

The HSE only accounts a BMI of above 40 as obese.

20% of ICU admissions in Ireland were at least above 40 BMI.

Others countries count a BMI of 30 as obese, so exactly what percentage were obese in ICU in Ireland??

Knowing 86% were fit young lads Im struggling to do the maths

Indeed. It is. Personally been hitting the gym since they reopened as I’d put on some weight doing nothing in lockdown- such an unhealthy, waste of time that all was.
Yes that’s a narrative I’m seeing and it’s desperation tactics on behalf of the pro lockdown crew- each day we are treated to a new “healthy fit person” that nearly died of C-19 to keep the fear going

road_high · 29-09-2020 11:12PM

Joel Deafening Link wrote: »

Has there been anymore mentioned about possible lockdown in cork or other counties today?

They seem to mention new ones daily- just keep going living!
They’re all only political optics at this stage, zero to do with public health.

topper75 · 29-09-2020 11:17PM

road_high wrote: »

The PC snowflakes won’t like the fact Dr Feeley spelled out obesity and Covid!!

Why do they try to lowlight or ignore something so stark as obesity in the victim data? I'm flabbergasted. This has been the case for months now.

Assetbacked · 29-09-2020 11:28PM

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

It's well accepted that too many people were hospitalised in the early stages of covid 19. Hospitals were almost used as isolation and quarantine facilities.

We are detecting more asymptomatic cases so the % hospitalised will obviously go down.

I fail to see the poi t you are trying to raise.

My point? Are you a goldfish?

New cases is pointless by itself as a number and restrictions with the accompanying narrative should not be based on new cases. The whole crisis is about spreading out the same number of those infected over a longer period, not to eradicate the virus as this is not practical. With the data we have showing that hospitalisations are not increasing, in fact significantly decreasing, with new cases, there is a strong argument that the crisis part of the covid response ended long ago, that we should be in a pretty much fully open economy and society.

Covid; the most overhyped crisis in living memory.

road_high · 29-09-2020 11:30PM

topper75 wrote: »

Why do they try to lowlight or ignore something so stark as obesity in the victim data? I'm flabbergasted. This has been the case for months now.

Because it’s not politically correct to do so. Such is the alternate universe we now live on, medical facts come a dismal second place im afraid

Assetbacked · 29-09-2020 11:34PM

road_high wrote: »

Because it’s not politically correct to do so. Such is the alternate universe we now live on, medical facts come a dismal second place im afraid

Don't be obese, exercise regularly, sleep enough, eat lots of wholefoods and don't eat a lot of processed foods, drink plenty of water, cut down on stress. Not only will this significantly reduce any risk of suffering anything from covid, it will also significantly reduce your risk of suffering from other lifestyle diseases such as heart disease and diabetes.

"bUt i NeEd MuH vAcCiNe durrr"

road_high · 29-09-2020 11:38PM

Assetbacked wrote: »

Don't be obese, exercise regularly, sleep enough, eat lots of wholefoods and don't eat a lot of processed foods, drink plenty of water, cut down on stress. Not only will this significantly reduce any risk of suffering anything from covid, it will also significantly reduce your risk of suffering from other lifestyle diseases such as heart disease and diabetes.

"bUt i NeEd MuH vAcCiNe durrr"

Indeed. A healthy immune system is our best defence. Not once do I hear it mentioned by Nphet. They’re clearly just a finger waving committee with no real public health function

moonage · 30-09-2020 12:15AM

road_high wrote: »

Indeed. A healthy immune system is our best defence. Not once do I hear it mentioned by Nphet. They’re clearly just a finger waving committee with no real public health function

From the start, the vulnerable should have been advised to take certain supplements daily, particularly Vitamin D (and Vit C and zinc).

It would have been an easy, inexpensive measure that would have made a difference.

patnor1011 · 30-09-2020 07:05AM

topper75 wrote: »

Why do they try to lowlight or ignore something so stark as obesity in the victim data? I'm flabbergasted. This has been the case for months now.

Because due to current political correctness craziness you are not allowed to use that dirty "o" word. According to SJW big is beautiful and covid better take it in its little virus head and stop discriminating against beautiful people.

walus · 30-09-2020 07:57AM

Deleted User wrote: »

I think this graph is hugely misleading. The total surface area for both scenarios must be the same for this to make sense. And for that reason for the flattened curve the point in time where the number of active cases equals the number of cases for the "shark fin" curve is much much further away on the Time axis.

Instead this gif suggests that there is no downside to flattening the curve, while there actually is. That downside is time, which as we now know it has huge impact on how we live our lives and how the economy fares.

bucketybuck · 30-09-2020 08:14AM

walus wrote: »

I think this graph is hugely misleading.

Just like the number of deaths reported.

And the number of cases reported.

And the details of where cases are being transmitted.

One thing you can be sure of when it comes to Covid is that you won't be told the full story.

Worried2019 · 30-09-2020 08:35AM

I am obese, I’ve lost 4 stone since January - but still obese!
I am very aware of the reports regarding obesity being a major risk factor but I too would like NPHET and the Irish government to come out and state the facts and statistics on obese deaths due to COVID in Ireland. I am 30 and otherwise ‘healthy’ I thankfully don’t have any of the other diseases or illnesses you would associate with obesity and I want to make sure I lose more weight before I do inevitably develop them. I don’t need the fear of covid to help me lose weight, as I said I started in January before covid was really on our radars. However I am at fear of even meeting a family member because I don’t know what the implications will be for me to get covid. I am the healthiest I’ve ever been, I’ve actually been taking vitamin D, C and zinc since March and I’m eating much healthier. However I would really like to know the stats on where this bases me for ‘survival’ is it a fact of you have a high BMI then you are screwed?? I do think NPHET or the government should clearly come out and address the issues around obesity, people who are obese (myself included) generally won’t consider them self an at risk person unless they are told out straight. I see people in shopping Centers or out and about who are huge with no masks, no social distancing etc and all that’s going through my head is do they not realise they will die if they get covid... and to be honest I don’t know what the statistics are whether obese people are guaranteed to die from covid!

30-09-2020 08:37AM

walus wrote: »

I think this graph is hugely misleading. The total surface area for both scenarios must be the same for this to make sense. And for that reason for the flattened curve the point in time where the number of active cases equals the number of cases for the "shark fin" curve is much much further away on the Time axis.

Instead this gif suggests that there is no downside to flattening the curve, while there actually is. That downside is time, which as we now know it has huge impact on how we live our lives and how the economy fares.

Maybe I'm tired from staying up to watch that ridiculous debate but I've read this a few times and still can't make sense of it

Allinall · 30-09-2020 08:38AM

Looks like an awful lot of doctors after joining this thread.

Probably best to listen to the real ones, though.

30-09-2020 08:41AM

Assetbacked wrote: »

My point? Are you a goldfish?

New cases is pointless by itself as a number and restrictions with the accompanying narrative should not be based on new cases. The whole crisis is about spreading out the same number of those infected over a longer period, not to eradicate the virus as this is not practical. With the data we have showing that hospitalisations are not increasing, in fact significantly decreasing, with new cases, there is a strong argument that the crisis part of the covid response ended long ago, that we should be in a pretty much fully open economy and society.

Covid; the most overhyped crisis in living memory.

You failed to address my post where I point out hospitalisations increase linearly with cases at present

paw patrol · 30-09-2020 08:49AM

Assetbacked wrote: »

Don't be obese, exercise regularly, sleep enough, eat lots of wholefoods and don't eat a lot of processed foods, drink plenty of water, cut down on stress. Not only will this significantly reduce any risk of suffering anything from covid, it will also significantly reduce your risk of suffering from other lifestyle diseases such as heart disease and diabetes.

"bUt i NeEd MuH vAcCiNe durrr"

road_high wrote: »

Indeed. A healthy immune system is our best defence. Not once do I hear it mentioned by Nphet. They’re clearly just a finger waving committee with no real public health function

and vitamin D seems to be a huge factor in the severity of cases.
It's cheap as fcuk - 270 tabs on bulkpowders.ie for 16e. That's 270days supply...
I've been taking 5000iu daily for over 10 years, the benefits are enormous beyond covid (i'm just lucky it seems to sort covid)

Penfailed · 30-09-2020 08:49AM

Worried2019 wrote: »

I am obese, I’ve lost 4 stone since January

Wow! That's amazing. Good work!

Worried2019 wrote: »

to be honest I don’t know what the statistics are whether obese people are guaranteed to die from covid!

There are no guarantees. Boris Johnson would be considered to be obese. He didn't die.

snowcat · 30-09-2020 09:05AM

Worried2019 wrote: »

I am obese, I’ve lost 4 stone since January - but still obese!
I am very aware of the reports regarding obesity being a major risk factor but I too would like NPHET and the Irish government to come out and state the facts and statistics on obese deaths due to COVID in Ireland. I am 30 and otherwise ‘healthy’ I thankfully don’t have any of the other diseases or illnesses you would associate with obesity and I want to make sure I lose more weight before I do inevitably develop them. I don’t need the fear of covid to help me lose weight, as I said I started in January before covid was really on our radars. However I am at fear of even meeting a family member because I don’t know what the implications will be for me to get covid. I am the healthiest I’ve ever been, I’ve actually been taking vitamin D, C and zinc since March and I’m eating much healthier. However I would really like to know the stats on where this bases me for ‘survival’ is it a fact of you have a high BMI then you are screwed?? I do think NPHET or the government should clearly come out and address the issues around obesity, people who are obese (myself included) generally won’t consider them self an at risk person unless they are told out straight. I see people in shopping Centers or out and about who are huge with no masks, no social distancing etc and all that’s going through my head is do they not realise they will die if they get covid... and to be honest I don’t know what the statistics are whether obese people are guaranteed to die from covid!

The possibility of dying from Covid is small even with age co-morbitities obesity etc. There is lots of obese people who have had Covid and dont even know they had it. Lots of elderly people even over 100 have survived Covid. There is still an unknown section of the population that will be naturally immune to Covid. There is no-one guaranteed to die even if they contract Covid. This scaremongering has to stop.

https://elemental.medium.com/the-mystery-of-why-so-many-100-year-olds-are-surviving-covid-19-35ded8ebea42

cj maxx · 30-09-2020 09:17AM

paw patrol wrote: »

and vitamin D seems to be a huge factor in the severity of case.
It's cheap as fcuk - 270 tabs on bulkpowders.ie for 16e. That's 270days supply...
I've been taking 5000iu daily for over 10 years, the benefits are enormous beyond covid (i'm just lucky it seems to sort covid)

I’ve been taking 5000iu for the last 7 years.for MS I never had any problem sourcing vitD 5000iu in a pharmacy till this pandemic happened then all of a sudden it was completely sold out:(

Assetbacked · 30-09-2020 09:57AM

Deleted User wrote: »

What exactly are you saying here? The percentage of positive tests versus hospitalisations are going down? Any idea why that might be? There is still a steady correlation between cases and hospitlatiosn; 3% like you say.

Interesting that you've used almost the exact same data that I read to see a rise in cases does correlate to a rise in hospitalisations. I prefer the 14-day running averages, as it flattens out the outliers. If you open every pdf there, look at "National incidence of confirmed cases per 100,000 population" and "Number of cases hospitalised".

You will see that as the cases doubled over the period that we opened up, that the number of cases hospitalised double. All of this is at the rate of roughly 3% that you state. Pity the 14-day ones don't go back too far. Would take forever to go through the daily ones.

It was at a much higher rate earlier in lockdown and is getting lower and lower. We only started testing everyone in hospitals sometime during the summer as hospitals were restarting delayed treatments. So it isn't a given that covid is causing increases in hospitalisation. In fact, the low rate as against actual recorded positives is getting lower and lower - meaning we are getting back to business as usual for the terrible health service we are used to. They are using the covid as a blanket to cover up their own inefficiencies and attributing any rise in hospitalisations as a result of covid. The more positive cases we get the less serious covid becomes and they are terrified of this as it shows them pissing in the sea as the tide of the covid crisis goes out.

funnydoggy · 30-09-2020 10:02AM

cj maxx wrote: »

I’ve been taking 5000iu for the last 7 years.for MS I never had any problem sourcing vitD 5000iu in a pharmacy till this pandemic happened then all of a sudden it was completely sold out:(

Bulkpowders delivers fairly quickly thankfully

30-09-2020 10:07AM

Assetbacked wrote: »

It was at a much higher rate earlier in lockdown and is getting lower and lower. We only started testing everyone in hospitals sometime during the summer as hospitals were restarting delayed treatments. So it isn't a given that covid is causing increases in hospitalisation. In fact, the low rate as against actual recorded positives is getting lower and lower - meaning we are getting back to business as usual for the terrible health service we are used to. They are using the covid as a blanket to cover up their own inefficiencies and attributing any rise in hospitalisations as a result of covid. The more positive cases we get the less serious covid becomes and they are terrified of this as it shows them pissing in the sea as the tide of the covid crisis goes out.

I don't why I bother. This is conjecture at best. Any idea at all why the percentage of hospitalisations has gone down?

The high rate of covid towards the start was because hardly anyone was being tested. Remember when the advice was to stay home even if you were almost certain to have it. Stay home unless it got really serious. Therefore hospitalisations were a larger percentage of confirmed cases. See I can make stuff up too.

Assetbacked · 30-09-2020 10:10AM

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't why I bother. This is conjecture at best. Any idea at all why the percentage of hospitalisations has gone down?

The high rate of covid towards the start was because hardly anyone was being tested. Remember when the advice was to stay home even if you were almost certain to have it. Stay home unless it got really serious. Therefore hospitalisations were a larger percentage of confirmed cases. See I can make stuff up too.

It is correcting to its more natural rate with respect to covid which, from what it looks like, is F-all.

It is not covid which is going to overrun the hospitals as it is such a nothing virus and the more cases we have, the more we see the rate of hospitalisations "with" covid (obviously this is already way overstated) decrease. It will be the fact that people need to go to hospitals for treatment. We can't lockdown society just because our hospitals are filling up, we never did this before.

paw patrol · 30-09-2020 10:11AM

funnydoggy wrote: »

Bulkpowders delivers fairly quickly thankfully

i agree on that.

Assetbacked · 30-09-2020 10:15AM

paw patrol wrote: »

i agree on that.

Here's another good source of vitamin D;

snowcat · 30-09-2020 11:15AM

Assetbacked wrote: »

Here's another good source of vitamin D;

On a side note the practice of the medical community lording the use of chemical sunscreens and demonising the sun as some sort of cancer giving demon has come back to haunt us. Absolutely getting burnt is not good for you but the sun in moderation (the most natural and best form of Vit D) is perhaps one of the best treat all medicines that has ever been developed.

hayoc · 30-09-2020 11:18AM

snowcat wrote: »

On a side note the practice of the medical community lording the use of chemical sunscreens and demonising the sun as some sort of cancer giving demon has come back to haunt us. Absolutely getting burnt is not good for you but the sun in moderation (the most natural and best form of Vit D) is perhaps one of the best treat all medicines that has ever been developed.

Isnt there an issue though that some people do not produce vit D from sunlight?
Or that older or darker skin does not produce it as efficiently from sunlight?

Penfailed · 30-09-2020 11:24AM

snowcat wrote: »

On a side note the practice of the medical community lording the use of chemical sunscreens and demonising the sun as some sort of cancer giving demon has come back to haunt us. Absolutely getting burnt is not good for you but the sun in moderation (the most natural and best form of Vit D) is perhaps one of the best treat all medicines that has ever been developed.

It is a cancer giving demon. I detest suncream though. I'd rather cover up than wear suncream and tend to stay in the shade where possible.

covid20 · 30-09-2020 11:40AM

Has it dawned on the anti restriction types here that your behaviour only attracts more of them?

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings